Samhain

[FieryChyld]

just a question does anyone think that we shouldn't celbrate samhain since it falls on a christian sabbath day. i think we should what do you think

[teishabee]

All saints day is the day after samhaim.

[Aelfoak]

just a question does anyone think that we shouldn't celbrate samhain since it falls on a christian sabbath day. i think we should what do you think
Yes definitley, Samhain is an ancient Celtic ritual and with the rise of Christianity it was only changed to All Saints Day to commemorate the souls of the dead that had been cannonised that year, so Samhain is the traditional Celtic Pagan tradition and Christianity just incorporated into their calender.

[Tangerines]

Since it's not a for-sure thing that Samhain falls on Hallowe'en, why care?

[LadyTrinity]

If someone stops me from having halloween on a sunday because sunday is a holy day there will be some bodies walking around with their heads missin! :smile:

[misschief]

bah. i don't care about some christian holiday.

[Aowyn]

bah. i don't care about some christian holiday.
they borrowed pagan holidays to set up their calendar and don't mind doing their things on them so we shouldn't mind doing our thing on sundays. Besides since Samhain shifts that would mean that it would have to be skipped every 7 years, resulting in a 729 day long year, hmmm....*scratches her forehead thinking of the repurcusions :eek:

[Tangerines]

Saturday is the original sabbath day anyways. Sunday's a Protestant thing.

[Raven_Darkstorm]

If someone stops me from having halloween on a sunday because sunday is a holy day there will be some bodies walking around with their heads missin! :smile:

I wish to maintain this same sentiment
*grabs axe*
:lilangel:

[fay]

i dont see why two religions cant celebrate things on the same day. come on, all religions try to teach us to share. :nyah: come on people, share! :p

november 1st is all saints day for christians. it is when they remember all the saints and what they have done for their religion. it also used to be known as all hallows. therefore the night before, october 31st, was known as all hallows eve. it wasnt really a sacred day for christians, it was the day before a special day.

october 31st has been about honouring those who have passed on from this incarnation for a long time. i see no reason why we should discontinue this.
blessed be

[enchancea]

I really dont pay attention to any holidays except the pagan ones so it wont be stopping me from celebrating

[~Elise~]

just a question does anyone think that we shouldn't celbrate samhain since it falls on a christian sabbath day. i think we should what do you think

Well, to be honest, this is a moot question. Samhain is NOT Oct. 31. ACTUAL Samhain is a cross-quarter day...it falls between Autumnal Equinox and Yule--so it moves, just as they do. Actual date of Samhain is Nov 6th this year.

You can choose to celebrate Halloween as Samhain if you want--a lot of people do. I'm not going to go into the All Saint's Day thing--go do your research. There is a lot of of learning to be done on this path. But you need to go do it on your own and not let someone give it to you on a platter.

Go read some of Mike Nichols articles online--he is a good place to START. Start is the operative word here. You've chosen a path that encourages learning on your own--talking to Divine on your own...

Off the soapbox again...next?

Elise

[Seren_]

Well, to be honest, this is a moot question. Samhain is NOT Oct. 31. ACTUAL Samhain is a cross-quarter day...it falls between Vernal Equinox and Yule--so it moves, just as they do. Actual date of Samhain is Nov 6th this year.
Elise

This is honestly something I've never heard of before, until this year. I've never heard of Beltane, Lughnasad or Imbolc moving dates each year, either. Are you saying it's the same for all cross-quarter days?

[~Elise~]

This is honestly something I've never heard of before, until this year. I've never heard of Beltane, Lughnasad or Imbolc moving dates each year, either. Are you saying it's the same for all cross-quarter days?

Go do some research on the Wheel of the Year. Solar Festivals do move each year. Modern Pagans, for the most part, have gotten set in the ways of using set dates. It's easier...I don't really agree with it totally, but do understand the convenience factor. And I fall into that at times myself.

Wanna really boggle the mind? Go take a look at the way the Holy Church decided on the date for Easter. LOL.

Elise

[*Rain*]

My celebrating of my religion has absolutely nothing to do with other religions regardless of when the days fall. To suggest moving pagan holidays to suit other religions is absolutely preposterous.

[Seren_]

Go do some research on the Wheel of the Year. Solar Festivals do move each year. Modern Pagans, for the most part, have gotten set in the ways of using set dates. It's easier...I don't really agree with it totally, but do understand the convenience factor. And I fall into that at times myself.

Wanna really boggle the mind? Go take a look at the way the Holy Church decided on the date for Easter. LOL.

Elise

Every book I have does not mention Samhain moving dates, just the Equinoxes and Solstices...and it's certainly nothing I was ever taught. :whatgives But I was actually wondering if you were talking from a historical perspective...so I think you've answered my question, thanks. :)

I studied the dating of Easter in my Celtic Civ classes....the thought of going back into that gives me the fear :yikes:

[teishabee]

All of the sabbaths move around. Its to do with the seasons and when they change so I cant see that would be a fixed date.

I do believe that october 31st does have a thin viel and is powerful. Im going to celebrate both.

[~Elise~]

Every book I have does not mention Samhain moving dates, just the Equinoxes and Solstices...and it's certainly nothing I was ever taught. :whatgives But I was actually wondering if you were talking from a historical perspective...so I think you've answered my question, thanks. :)

I studied the dating of Easter in my Celtic Civ classes....the thought of going back into that gives me the fear :yikes:

LOL--understood.

Ummm--as a starting point--Mike Nichols has some wonderful articles on Wheel of the Year. I used them as a basis for a series I taught on the subject. Google his name.

Elise

[-Ember]

just a question does anyone think that we shouldn't celbrate samhain since it falls on a christian sabbath day. i think we should what do you think

I think they shouldn't celebrate the sabbath since it falls on our day (jk of course.)

As to holidays moving... it depends on how you set them. Fixed dates are a rather late method, but astrology may be of questionable origin as well. If you hold them to be seasonal rather than astrological, it is the first flower, first fruit and first frost that sets the days.

[FieryChyld]

thank you all i was just wondering because it was just boggling me. any was i have gotten great advice from all of you and i hope in the future i can help you the way you help me
:ghost:

[Dafydd]

http://www.archaeoastronomy.com/ is a handy guide to the actual dates and times of the solar events of interest to many Pagans. This site has a feature called My Clock where you can set it for your own geographic location.

[-Ember]

thank you all i was just wondering because it was just boggling me. any was i have gotten great advice from all of you and i hope in the future i can help you the way you help me
:ghost:

It is a matter of passing it on... kind of a pyramid scheme... I'm in debt for my training, so I feel the need to bring others into the same debt.... helps to create a situation where there is always someone willing to teach....;)... means someday you get to answer all the newbie questions the old farts are sick of....

[Rowan103]

just a question does anyone think that we shouldn't celbrate samhain since it falls on a christian sabbath day. i think we should what do you think

I am sure over the course of history many religions have had holidays overlap and I am sure that it never stopped them from observing. Granted Sunday is not a holiday per say but rahter a day held in high reguard fro their worship in Christianity.

Something that did pop into my head when I read your post thou was how I recall when I was young and attended a Baptist church how as Halloween neared it seemed to come up during church. I even recall shortly after I had started on my current path my mother's encounter at church. My mother passed away 5 years ago. She was never much of a religious person in the sense of attending church on a regular basis..not saying she did not have any beleifs. She did start attending church about a year befor she passed. I remember her telling me how the Pastor had talked about how Halloween was a Pagan Holiday and it's roots and evil ect ect. It was all I could do not to laugh. We did talk about it a little and I told her what I knew of said Halloween without letting her know of my chosen path. Anyways I think our conversation may have made her think that the dramatic performance the Pastor put on about it was not as evil as he made it out to be.

So my point is I have to wonder what it will be like in Churches this year with it falling on a Sunday. On my home page provided by my isp provider I read an article a few weeks ago about a Pastor scaring the you know what out of the children in his church. He told them that if they are to participate in any way in Halloween it makes them evil and a sinner. Now imagine being a child the age of 5-10 lets say. Now someone tells you this and of all people it is someone you have been taught to have much respect for. That would have to scare you very much and on top of it being a kid and if they are school age..that is going to be terrible for them not to participate in parties that might take place in school. Not to mention the fact that you know all the kids are talking about what they are gonna dress as ect.

Now I realize that this is not the case in all churches but you have to ask yourself just how many Pastors do tell it like that to their young members.

[Lunacie]

So my point is I have to wonder what it will be like in Churches this year with it falling on a Sunday. On my home page provided by my isp provider I read an article a few weeks ago about a Pastor scaring the you know what out of the children in his church. He told them that if they are to participate in any way in Halloween it makes them evil and a sinner. Now imagine being a child the age of 5-10 lets say. Now someone tells you this and of all people it is someone you have been taught to have much respect for. That would have to scare you very much and on top of it being a kid and if they are school age..that is going to be terrible for them not to participate in parties that might take place in school. Not to mention the fact that you know all the kids are talking about what they are gonna dress as ect.

Now I realize that this is not the case in all churches but you have to ask yourself just how many Pastors do tell it like that to their young members.

Hey Rowan, I'm currently involved in a discussion someplace else about "spiritual abuse", especially pertaining to children. Could you share a link about the pastor who threatened the children if they wanted to celebrate halloween? I'd sure appreciate it.

[fay]

Wanna really boggle the mind? Go take a look at the way the Holy Church decided on the date for Easter. LOL.
Elise

oh, oh, pick me, pick me, i know! lol
i think this was meant to be a rhetorical question but im going to answer it anyways. (im just like that :nyah: )
easter is the first sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. i always thought that was cool! :p
blessed be

[Theres]

i'm celebrating my sabbat on the 31st, as i always do. i don't care what day they go to church.