Studying with a Teacher- opinions wanted

[Haruka2077]

I belong to a Celtic Wiccan teaching Hearth. I was a student, but I took a hiatus when I got pregnant to have more time to prepare for the baby. Now that the baby's almost here (5 1/2 weeks!), I'm trying to decide whether to resume my studies in the new year.
I love working with this Hearth and they are like a big family to me. Whether or not I decide to be a student again won't affect my other activities with the group, like attending circles and get-togethers.
Here are some of my pros and cons:
I like the teacher who's running the circle as a person, but not necessarily as a teacher. She was a high-school English teacher for 20 years, and it kind of shows. Her assignments and explanations are kind of vague, and she seems to look for much less depth and thought in the answers than I'm used to in my private practice. I was only halfway through the First Degree syllabus so I don't know whether it gets deeper after that. However, it was frustrating to spend a lot of time and effort on my answers, only to get them back with figurative red ink all over them because they weren't the answers she was looking for. Sometimes I felt like a college student being forced to repeat the 4th grade.
Also, I'm not sure if my motives for being a student are the right ones. I would like to be able to teach and possibly lead others in the future, and I'm afraid I won't have the "authority" to do that if I don't have some kind of formal training. But, is that formal training really a credential if I don't feel I actually have grown from it? And am I being shallow or impatient in wanting to take this course for this reason? I would love to study under someone I felt was more in tune with my practice just for the sake of studying, but I'm not sure if I will have the opportunity.
So- what's your opinion? Should I wait and see if a better teacher comes along? Or should I just buckle down and take this class and see what I can get from it?
I could probably muse on this for quite some time but I'll see what you have to say and maybe I can elaborate in response.

[MorningDove030202]

I belong to a Celtic Wiccan teaching Hearth. I was a student, but I took a hiatus when I got pregnant to have more time to prepare for the baby. Now that the baby's almost here (5 1/2 weeks!), I'm trying to decide whether to resume my studies in the new year.
I love working with this Hearth and they are like a big family to me. Whether or not I decide to be a student again won't affect my other activities with the group, like attending circles and get-togethers.
Here are some of my pros and cons:
I like the teacher who's running the circle as a person, but not necessarily as a teacher. She was a high-school English teacher for 20 years, and it kind of shows. Her assignments and explanations are kind of vague, and she seems to look for much less depth and thought in the answers than I'm used to in my private practice. I was only halfway through the First Degree syllabus so I don't know whether it gets deeper after that. However, it was frustrating to spend a lot of time and effort on my answers, only to get them back with figurative red ink all over them because they weren't the answers she was looking for. Sometimes I felt like a college student being forced to repeat the 4th grade.
Also, I'm not sure if my motives for being a student are the right ones. I would like to be able to teach and possibly lead others in the future, and I'm afraid I won't have the "authority" to do that if I don't have some kind of formal training. But, is that formal training really a credential if I don't feel I actually have grown from it? And am I being shallow or impatient in wanting to take this course for this reason? I would love to study under someone I felt was more in tune with my practice just for the sake of studying, but I'm not sure if I will have the opportunity.
So- what's your opinion? Should I wait and see if a better teacher comes along? Or should I just buckle down and take this class and see what I can get from it?
I could probably muse on this for quite some time but I'll see what you have to say and maybe I can elaborate in response.


First I will have to admit that I also feel that I need credentials and education before I can teach others as well, so you arn't alone in feeling this way.

My other question would be, "do you have any other pagan educational options"? If you do, then check them out and if you find another teacher/group that is better then go for that. If the answere is no, or if other options arn't afordable, then I would stick it out with your current teacher.

I'm working on my First Degree with Witchschool.com, and yes alot of it I already know, but you do have to start somewhere and you can't realy skip ahead.

I'd like to know what your teacher's credentials are....

Dove

[Haruka2077]

First I will have to admit that I also feel that I need credentials and education before I can teach others as well, so you arn't alone in feeling this way.

My other question would be, "do you have any other pagan educational options"? If you do, then check them out and if you find another teacher/group that is better then go for that. If the answere is no, or if other options arn't afordable, then I would stick it out with your current teacher.

I'm working on my First Degree with Witchschool.com, and yes alot of it I already know, but you do have to start somewhere and you can't realy skip ahead.

I'd like to know what your teacher's credentials are....

Dove


Thanks for the input! I suppose I have on-line options, but for me that's basically the same as working on my own. I'd rather have a real-live teacher.
My teacher actually has good creditials, unfortunately mostly in British Traditional and Scottish Witchcraft. Not quite my style. She's very down-to-earth and I like her a lot, but honestly I don't think she's a very good teacher. It seems odd since she actually was a teacher, I know- but then I always hated school! 8O
I could kick myself now because I had the oppourtunity to work with a really good group in California, in a tradition that appealed to me more, but I chose to go home for 6 months while my husband was at sea and I lost touch with them. Now I wish I'd followed up. Maybe that's why I feel I should take advantage of this even though I have misgivings- because I'm afraid of wasting another oppourtunity when I'm actually going to be in one place for a few years...
Still, I think you might be right about just wading through it anyway. No experience is ever a waste, right? At the very least I might learn self-discipline.

[Jenett]

Teaching adults is a different skill set than teaching kids or even teenagers (the goals are different, and some of the teaching methods are different). Some people find it easier to adapt to than others.

It sounds like you've got two issues: you're not sure you want to learn the specific stuff this person is teaching, and you're not happy with the actual teaching methods.

In the first case, really, you need to decide what you want to focus on, and if this teacher doesn't teach that, find other options. Ask other people in the hearth (including the teacher!) if they can point you to something more up your alley, once you figure out what that
is.

(Obviously, there are polite and rude ways to do this. "I've really appreciated the time and energy you've put in in teaching me, but after a lot of reflection, it seems like I'd prefer to focus on learning X kind of thing/tradtion/path, and I know that's not where your focus is.... if you have any suggestions, I'd love your help." would probably work well.)

If it's the teaching style that's an issue, then that's something you can bring up - if the questions are vague, say "I know you've spent a lot of time correcting stuff. I have problems sometimes because I'm not really sure what you're asking for..." and then talk about ways to resolve that.

(I had this probelm a little with my teachers: when they explained they wanted stuff that both proved I'd been paying attention to assignments/homework, and stuff that proved I could think past what they gave me - whether it *worked* and fit in with other goals was imporant - then I had an easier time. There were times they expected certain answers, but other answers that worked were fine too.)

As far as the level of complexity - it's not uncommon for pre-first-degree training to be fairly basic, or to be an overview of a wide range of subjects, none of them going terribly deep. I know in my case, what I got out of it mostly (with a few specific exceptions) wasn't a lot of new *information* (I was reasonably well-read about a bunch of topics coming in) but experience in doing things, and experience in how that specific tradition fits together.

Since I learn information fairly quickly, but take a lot longer to get comfortable with stuff in practice (i.e. feel confident doing it, working with variations, etc.) I still had plenty to keep me busy.

If it's the specific person - is there anyone else associated with that group who might be comfortable taking a student on? This can be a little complicated to ask about, but worth at least looking at.

[indigo rain]

i would just talk to her, since you seem to be getting along with her fairly well on a person to person basis. this tells me she'll probably listen to what you have to say. tell her you feel you need deeper training and ask if she'll eventually provide this past the first degree. and i'd discuss these answers you've been giving her and she's been grading badly because they're not the ones she's looking for. discussion is key. if, after discussion, you find that she doesn't have a good reason, and she's not open to your ideas or those of others, strictly by the book kind of person, i'd then find another teacher. and i wouldn't worry about credentials. they're meaningless without true wisdom. good luck.

[Seren_]

I belong to a Celtic Wiccan teaching Hearth. I was a student, but I took a hiatus when I got pregnant to have more time to prepare for the baby. Now that the baby's almost here (5 1/2 weeks!), I'm trying to decide whether to resume my studies in the new year.

Congratulations on the new bump...well, baby.

Her assignments and explanations are kind of vague, and she seems to look for much less depth and thought in the answers than I'm used to in my private practice. I was only halfway through the First Degree syllabus so I don't know whether it gets deeper after that. However, it was frustrating to spend a lot of time and effort on my answers, only to get them back with figurative red ink all over them because they weren't the answers she was looking for. Sometimes I felt like a college student being forced to repeat the 4th grade.

It seems your expectations as a student are different to hers as a teacher. Teaching adults is different from teaching kids...but if I were seriously considering going back for training with her, then I'd ask a few questions, to at least set a few ground rules from both perspectives. Is she expecting you to take a "traditional" approach, an "academic" one, or a bit of both...sometimes they're not necessarily the same, from my experience. I was interested in both, but in some cases they contradicted each other, and I questioned these, which my teacher didn't appreciate - partly because I don't think she knew the answer.

If she appears to have such in depth knowledge, then it seems natural to assume that you will be encouraged into a more in depth study in future...Perhaps what she's trying to do is encourage you to concentrate on the basics before going on to the more complicated stuff. I have no idea what your tradition is, but my experience (again from a personal view), is that most first degrees or whatever are geared towards building foundations rather than in depth knowledge. That tends to come later.

Sometimes teachers expect these foundations to settle before you move on, which is one of the advantages of a specific curriculum structure...You might be more than capable of gaining a more in depth perspective intellectually, but spiritually your teacher might decide otherwise; sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. And sometimes it the type of wood that's important, rather than the way the woods work as a whole...Or else you might have got the point, a while ago, but the curriculum isn't as personally tailored or as flexible as you'd like...

I'd still discuss this point with her though, if it is important to you. Is she saying that your assignments are wrong...or not what she's looking for? Are the red marks "constructive criticism" - encouraging you to look into other sources; or just disagreeing with you...? If it's a basic disagreement of perspectives, rather than actual content then it might be best for you to consider other options.

Also, I'm not sure if my motives for being a student are the right ones. I would like to be able to teach and possibly lead others in the future, and I'm afraid I won't have the "authority" to do that if I don't have some kind of formal training.

One advantage of formal training is that it helps you learn how to teach. You either learn from how your teacher taught you, or from the mistakes they made in teaching you...This is more by observation than actual training. Then again, if you want to teach, then you have to ask what you want to teach. If it isn't entirely in the tradition that you've been taught - or at all - then how helpful will that teaching you receive be? I doubt that "authority" would come into it much in that case.

At the end of the day, you probably need to know where you're going in the tradition you're being taught in, before making a decision. I would also ask your teacher, while your having a chat, what kind of commitment you'll be expected to make when the baby comes along. Assuming you don't have other kids already...family can be quite time consuming.