Christianity: True or False

[Ron]

Do you belive Christianity is a true religion, ie. there is a G!d and there was a Jesus (etc) or not? (You can also vote to abstain.) Why?

(edit) Due to some shortsighted persons, I would like everyone to please refer to this post (http://mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=1366001&postcount=137) before insulting me as a Christian or as anything else. Thank you.

[edit edit] The above edit no longer fully applies. A year is a long time.

[Pandoras]

This is another potentially dangerous thread, but I'll post anyway.

I do believe that Christianity is a valid and very real religion. It isn't for me, but nevertheless. And, yes, I do believe in a real, flesh and blood, historical Jesus.

[Tsuchimaru]

I think it's a true religion....not one I follow, but that doesn't make it false. :)

....I get a feeling that this thread shall end badly.... :nuhuh:

[Ron]

This is another potentially dangerous thread, but I'll post anyway. Have faith :) Perhaps if people are kind then peace will come.

[Brigid Bishop]

Christianity is a true religion, perhaps you meant to poll as to whether or not members "believe" in the Christian doctrine?

[misschief]

This is another potentially dangerous thread, but I'll post anyway.

i agree. i chose the first option, just because. i'm not going to say much further because i'm not going to bash christianity, or be accused of it. :)

[Sadb]

I believe it is a real religion and as the others said its just not for me . I do however have a problem with some of it followers thinking its the only true religion . Not that all are like this but I have met plenty that think this way . I think as long as people believe in something , anything even the energy they send out has to form some kind of entity . Just one of my many philosophies that should prove me insane .

[misschief]

I believe it is a real religion and as the others said its just not for me . I do however have a problem with some of it followers thinking its the only true religion . Not that all are like this but I have met plenty that think this way . I think as long as people believe in something , anything even the energy they send out has to form some kind of entity . Just one of my many philosophies that should prove me insane .that's kind of what i think too!!! ohhhh, can we be crazy together? please??? lol

[Sadb]

that's kind of what i think too!!! ohhhh, can we be crazy together? please??? lol

LOL , I just starting thinking that because like christians I believe there is one true entity , its neither good or bad and it is man not the gods that created good and evil . I believe we created gods to show our devotion towards a certian aspect of life . Ok if I continue going on about my belief structure I'm going to start rambling .

[Storm Moon]

I believe that it's real and there was a real life Jesus eons ago. As far as following a belief system that surrounds him, eh, that's kind of a grey area for me.

[Pan]

Yes, I believe that Christianity is a real religion. Personally, I don't see the point in this question. That'd be like someone posting up if Paganism was real or a joke.

[Rubber_Piggy]

You cannot deny that Christ existed because his life is documented. The only question is whether or not he is the Messiah :hailmol: Christians belive he is. It's not my place to decide if anothers faith is valid and being open-minded is one of my fundamental principals.

I do however think that some Christians do not believe what they say they do

[bshore]

I agree with Loki. This question was worded funny. If you're interested in knowing how many people follow the Christian path, perhaps you should rephrase your question. Christianity is no more a joke than Islam, Buddhism, Paganism, or Atheism. They are real beliefs, and many of us know a Christian who would vouch for their validity.

Rhys, perhaps you should clarify exactly what kind of a discussion or answer you were looking for? Or mayby I'm just confusled tonight. :nyah:

[Mab]

or maybe rhys was just trying to start something......

[unicornlightining]

I agree with those that have said that yes it is true, but no I do not fallow it. I also belive that there was a Jesus. As said before there is historical evandence of his life. Baseing a religion of his death and rebirth. It reminds me very much of the pagan weel of the year and the birth and death of the horned god i.e. the Oak or Holly King, or Green Man. (he has so many names)
The Greatest Good to All :wave:

[WingedTigerChild]

I think perhaps rhys was asking whether or not [we think] the mainstream idea of Christianity is true or false. I.E. The literal interpretation of the bible, Jesus as God and Messiah, etc. So I'm going to offer up my beliefs on the subject...

I do not think that the bible was meant to be interpreted literally, as there are many things in contradiction to each other when done so. I.E. Paul's speech on women in the church versus Jesus. If we read the bible according to it's historical, cultural and scriptural context, it makes sense and does not contradict itself. For those unfamiliar with Christ, he often spoke in metaphors, and were Christians to take such things literally, they'd be gouging out their eyeballs and other such nonsense.

I don't think that Jesus ever claims to be God, or "the way, the truth and the life." Rather, I think Jesus was (like Buddha, Krishna, etc.) enlightened, and that he spoke only of his actions in regards to "the way, the truth and the life." I don't think he meant that he, specifically, was the "only way to Heaven, enlightenment, eternal peace, etc." The bible (esp. the NT) is really very interesting when read how I believe it was meant to be. In fact, I think it's very "Buddhist" in nature, and that, although denied by many, it also supports the idea of reincarnation or rebirth.

[Ben Trismegistus]

ADMIN MODE

I should close this thread for simply putting the text "Christianity is a joke" in the poll options. However, the thread itself is producing some interesting conversation, so I'll keep it open for now. But I'm keeping my eye on it. Anything that looks like Christian-bashing will result in immediate closure of the thread.

Rhys, perhaps you could clarify your original meaning and I could alter the poll accordingly. Are you asking who is a Christian and who is not? Or simply whether you think Christianity is a valid religion?

[-Sky-]

I voted for the first but I don't exactly believe that "Christianity is a joke".I think that the creator of the poll just wanted to contradict and that's why he created this option.
I am against many of Christianism's beliefs and I am against Christians trying to convert other people,meaning that I am against Modern Church and not the main idea of Christianism.I don't bash Christianism since I know that there are many Christians here and I respect they're religion as they respect mine.I believe that Jesus existed,the he was a real and historical person.But noone can be sure if he was the Messiah or just an enlighted man.

~Anna

[Karma Chameleon]

Well, it's a vaild religion, as is any other.

[Morr]

i think Christianity is a joke in the sense that its NOT what Jesus spoke of. Most of his teachings are lost to us, and Christianity as we know it today is NOT based on his words, but rather on molding & inventions & add ons that the Church & its founders have made.

I do think Jesus was a historical figure, and I have great respect for him and the the followers of Christianity in general (as long as they dont shove it down my throat and tell me im going to hell). However, I think that the Church itself, as in the Organized Religion Christianity has been made into, the commercialized~esque side of it - Is a joke because the true meaning of Divine Love, Respect & Worship has been long lost within the lies, hate & fear.

[Sleet]

Christianity is very real to those who embrace it. And that's just fine.

I do not, however, embrace it. And that's just fine too.

- Sleet the Goddess-prayin' Quarters-invokin' Sabbat-observin' pagan is married to one Christian and raising two young Christians

[Tullip Troll]

Of course it's valid...not perfect and infalible and full of untruths like all the others...but very real...how can one even suggest that someones relationship with God (any God) is not real or a joke.

WHat awful wording for your choices.

MheraPai

[Tarbh Nathroch]

I vote “No, Christianity is real” because to a great many it is. Who are we to question their beliefs?

[Athena-Nadine]

Yes, I believe Christianity is a real religion (so is Judaism and Islam), and I believe the Abrahamic god exists. He's not my god, has nothing to do with me, nor me with Him, so it makes no difference whatsoever. None of it has anything to do with me.

There really should have been a "Who Cares?" option.

[Tzhebee]

i think Christianity is a joke in the sense that its NOT what Jesus spoke of. Most of his teachings are lost to us, and Christianity as we know it today is NOT based on his words, but rather on molding & inventions & add ons that the Church & its founders have made.

I do think Jesus was a historical figure, and I have great respect for him and the the followers of Christianity in general (as long as they dont shove it down my throat and tell me im going to hell). However, I think that the Church itself, as in the Organized Religion Christianity has been made into, the commercialized~esque side of it - Is a joke because the true meaning of Divine Love, Respect & Worship has been long lost within the lies, hate & fear.
Morr pretty much summed up my feelings on it.

[semi]

I believe in the King Missile song "Jesus Was Way Cool". I think, if he existed, he would've been a cool guy to hang out with. He seemed like a hippie buddhist kind of guy and a shaman, a man of knowledge. And I think building a new religion out of bits and pieces of older religions is also kind of cool. Using that religion to destroy other cultures, however, kind of pisses me off. Most of the Christians here seem like good folks and I have a few Christian friends who are incredibly good people. But there are many that give the religion a bad rep just like with any religion.

None of this actually answers the question, though, so is it a joke? Depends on who's telling the joke and who thinks it's funny.

[Ron]

View Poll Results: Do you believe Christianity is true or false?
Yes, Christianity is a joke. 13 33.33%
No, Christianity is real. 13 33.33%
Abstain. 13 33.33%


-- it's all 13 a piece!! :) gah

[Ron]

I agree with Loki. This question was worded funny. If you're interested in knowing how many people follow the Christian path, perhaps you should rephrase your question. Christianity is no more a joke than Islam, Buddhism, Paganism, or Atheism. They are real beliefs, and many of us know a Christian who would vouch for their validity.

Rhys, perhaps you should clarify exactly what kind of a discussion or answer you were looking for? Or mayby I'm just confusled tonight. :nyah:
Helwo... I wasn't interested in how many Christians there are here. I wanted to know how many believe in the religion as a vaild one.

[CaitrionaMorgaine]

I am in no position to tell another person that their religion is not valid.

Avalon's Blessings, ~Rhiannon

[Djiril]

I don't think "true" or "false" is really the issue. I have no reason to think that any religion has it completely right, and I think any religion, by nature, is a volatile force which can be used for good or evil.

[bshore]

Helwo... I wasn't interested in how many Christians there are here. I wanted to know how many believe in the religion as a vaild one.

ok, thank you for clarifying.

I find it hard to believe anyone here would feel they were qualified to tell someone their religion was not "valid", but there certainly are quite a few. To each their own. :smile:

[Ron]

You are welcome :D

[Toby Stimpson]

My comment on this will be to tell a story I perticularly like...and it came from the words of a wise Sikh...

'The Guru brought several blind students into a yard one day. He asked each to feel out and touch what was before them. Being blind they could not see what was before them and felt out. Each feeling the same thing. He asked the first one, 'tell me, what do you think this is?' And the boy looked up and replied, "I know exactly what this is...it's a great wall." He asked the second, "And what do you thinks this is?" The boy replied, "I don't think, I know...this is a hanging vine. The first student is wrong." The Guru nodded, and moved over to the last student, and asked the same thing. The third boy replied, "This is a great tree trunk..." The Guru noded, and then told them all what it was.

The mystery item they had all been feeling and describing was in fact an Elephant. His trunk swinging like a vine, His wide side like a wal, and his leg like a great tree trunk. They all bowed their heads in shame that they had presumed they know what was right, and then the Guru said, "Do not be ashamed in your idea in what the Elephant was...it took creative hinking to think that. Be ashamed however in being intolerant of your fellows ideas. The Elephant is a metaphor for the universe...which we all cannot see because in a way we are all blind. Think of life like that, and then you will eventually see the universe."

We all think that what we see, our perticular faith is the correct and highest. However, we all have room for interpretation...and that can account for the divirsity of Religious and philisophical thought in the world. We each gain a part of what we need to learn each life from differing religions...which will eventually lead to our understanding of that entity called the Divine. But, tolerance of differing views must be a staple for any spiritual person, becasue as the Mahatma once said, 'There are as many religions on Earth as there are people.". As for the question of 'is Christinaity a joke or not'...well, the religion affects those who lead it...so every religion can become a joke based on the actions of it's followers...so think more, are Xians a joke or not...and if there is just one Christian who isnt...then Christianity isnt a joke...just some in it. :)...Namaste

Tobias

[Romani Vixen]

Christianity is true for some, and not true for others.

By saying that such-and-such religion is a joke, you open yourself to the same critisism.

[FaeFollower]

I don't really see how anyone can say Christianity is 'not real', as evidenced by the millions of devout Christians all over the world...It's obviously real to them. I personally can't identify with it, but that doesn't make it any less real. JMO.

[Shatril]

Well said Galadraal I like that. I also have a quote from a bumper sticker "I don't have a problem with Jesus, but some of his follower I do have a problem with." or something close to that. I think all religions are right. All of us are going to end up in the same place regardless of what we believe. The lessons we learn here will help everyone along their way. Tolerance is the key issue. No one is right, no one is wrong. It isn't important to be right. What you believe is what you decide is best from what you know. My theory of religion is that they all have something worth listening to. Take what rings true for you and leave the rest behind. That is why my chosen path is eclectic pagan. I have my own set of beliefs and I don't expect anyone to believe as I do. I share my belief, and listen as others share theirs. I adjust my beliefs accordingly, as I find things that ring true.

[Velvet]

I'm not the one to judge what is real for some people.

[WingedTigerChild]

My comment on this will be to tell a story I perticularly like...and it came from the words of a wise Sikh...

'The Guru brought several blind students into a yard one day. He asked each to feel out and touch what was before them. Being blind they could not see what was before them and felt out. Each feeling the same thing. He asked the first one, 'tell me, what do you think this is?' And the boy looked up and replied, "I know exactly what this is...it's a great wall." He asked the second, "And what do you thinks this is?" The boy replied, "I don't think, I know...this is a hanging vine. The first student is wrong." The Guru nodded, and moved over to the last student, and asked the same thing. The third boy replied, "This is a great tree trunk..." The Guru noded, and then told them all what it was.

The mystery item they had all been feeling and describing was in fact an Elephant. His trunk swinging like a vine, His wide side like a wal, and his leg like a great tree trunk. They all bowed their heads in shame that they had presumed they know what was right, and then the Guru said, "Do not be ashamed in your idea in what the Elephant was...it took creative hinking to think that. Be ashamed however in being intolerant of your fellows ideas. The Elephant is a metaphor for the universe...which we all cannot see because in a way we are all blind. Think of life like that, and then you will eventually see the universe."Good stuff. :)

[flar7]

I edited to poll to make it a valid question without the inflammatory joke remark. Now both are equal statements. Something can be false and not be a joke, and something true can also be a joke.

and be warned, this thread is on knifes edge due to its built in problems. A NO TOLERANCE POLICY IS IN PLACE, and I will close the thread on the slightest break from decorum.

[Ron]

Yes, Christianity is real. 14 26.92%
No, Christianity is real. 21 40.38%
Abstain. 17 32.69%

that's great?! so it's either real or real? LOL please fix it again :)

[flar7]

ok. got it. the double negative aspect of it made it difficult to work. No, its real? seems an oxymoron, so I got confuzled and forgot the "not" on the appropriate line.

[Ron]

lol.. it's okay man, it only happens to the best of us. :)

[unicornlightining]

That wording really helps. Thanx Flar. _firedevil

[dr_zeus440]

There really should have been a "Who Cares?" option.
nuff said

[Doodlebug]

Yes, Christianity is a valid and real religion. But then again I'm biased considering that I am a Christian. ;) It may not be the right religion for everyone out there though and believe me, I totally understand that.

[Shatril]

I just realized where I had seen the quote about Christians. It is on Rhys signature line. hehehehe he has a post just below. It is attributed to Mahatma Ghandi. I guess that doesn't surprise me. He is the person that I most admire, but was not aware of this quote by him.

[Toby Stimpson]

That is because Mahatma Gandhi never said that...he was a full supporter of Christ and one of his best friends was a Christian. He just condemned conversion by anyone into Christianity, or Islam...or any other religion. Where did you get that quote from Rhys?

[Ron]

That is because Mahatma Gandhi never said that...he was a full supporter of Christ and one of his best friends was a Christian. He just condemned conversion by anyone into Christianity, or Islam...or any other religion. Where did you get that quote from Rhys?
Tobias you shite... http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1905 not only is it there, but in many other places... Ghandi did say it. :sick:

[HorseCrow]

Real.

[Aislin Amaris]

woo hoo! Nothing like a little Catholic debate to get the blood pumping (except maybe politics!).
Well, long long ago- at a time in my life when I was searching for myself and my faith (the teenage years) I had a firend who was much older than me. He said something that changed my life. there are many religions in this world. They can't all be wrong and they can't all be right- but they are all similar. they all have people willing to die for them, people willing to sacrifice for them, and people who take them to the wrong levels. When we die we will go to heaven where we will be taught the right path. When we have learned from our mistakes and accepted them- we will be let in.
Kinda deep for a 16 year old- but I really believe it.
Many Catholic events and traditions and so on are only borrowed from other religions and then changed. I think that there was a man named Christ who, like DaVinci and Nostradamus, was a visionary- a man before his time. i believe his followers made him a God and developed a religion for him. In order for it to be easily assimilated by the people of the old world, they had to adopt many atributes of other peoples religions.
If only the Catholics would realize that!
And that's all I have to say about that!

[Ceallach]

I believe Christianity is as real to those who believe it, as my beliefs are real to me.

[Kalika]

What is a "true" religion? And is there even such a thing.... how do you know?

IMO, a religion is a path of belief in something greater than yourself.

So yes, that would make Christianity a religion. Do I believe in the Christian God? Not necessarily. I know alot of people put all of their belief in him, and I respect that. It's not my place to tell them that their belief is wrong. :) Well, until they try to shove it down my throat and tell me I'm going to hell because I'm not a Christian... but that's another story!

As for Jesus, I believe that he lived. I don't know that I can put faith in what the bible and other books say of him as being true, because things tend to get twisted around and changed as they are handed through history. But I admire some of the things that he was apparently trying to teach (again... texts not always so great on exact points), and I'll respect someone else's belief in him as the lamb who was to remove all of mankind's sins, etc. It works, and works well, for many people to follow this religion and this path, it just doesn't work for me.

:)

Blessings,

Kalika

[bshore]

Well said Galadraal I like that. I also have a quote from a bumper sticker "I don't have a problem with Jesus, but some of his follower I do have a problem with." or something close to that. I think all religions are right. All of us are going to end up in the same place regardless of what we believe. The lessons we learn here will help everyone along their way. Tolerance is the key issue. No one is right, no one is wrong. It isn't important to be right. What you believe is what you decide is best from what you know. My theory of religion is that they all have something worth listening to. Take what rings true for you and leave the rest behind. That is why my chosen path is eclectic pagan. I have my own set of beliefs and I don't expect anyone to believe as I do. I share my belief, and listen as others share theirs. I adjust my beliefs accordingly, as I find things that ring true.

I believe the bumper sticker goes "I like Jesus, it's his fan club I can't stand"

[Holly Ariadna]

Christianity is definitely real.

[The High Queen of Faerie]

why is any one religion more valid than another?

[SilentDreams]

This is another potentially dangerous thread, but I'll post anyway.

I do believe that Christianity is a valid and very real religion. It isn't for me, but nevertheless. And, yes, I do believe in a real, flesh and blood, historical Jesus.

Yes I must agree.

[Aidron]

A true religion? Sure, it just doesn't hold my truth.

However, I believe faith is what you put into it. Whether any of us like it or not all religion came from mankind at some point, and Christianity, Wicca, and so forth are no different. I do believe man wrote the bible, not God, as I cannot imagine any divine being's words lacking such clarity. Then again, perhaps the clarity was too much for man to comprehend.

I stand firm, however, in my belief that the bible was written by men desiring power. That, however does not make the religion invalid or irrelevant in my opinion, since faith is what you put into it, not what those before you put into it.

[barlitone]

For the true believers, it's 100% as valid as Wicca and paganism are to me.

[Aidron]

For the true believers, it's 100% as valid as Wicca and paganism are to me.


Well that's a given. Validity of faith is based upon perspective and not facts, however, so there is no way to discern if any religion is 'true' beyond whether or not it is true for you.

[Toby Stimpson]

I stand corrected on the Ghandi quote...but I'm highly suspecting of it just based on what I know of the Mahatma. Ofcourse if it's on a website, then it must be true...

Tobias

[phyrefly]

A religious stance is true for the believer, not necessarily true for the Other listening to the believer's attempt to sway the Other by means of a certain style. Yesterday, a non-christian into Greek things and India things tells me that white elephants were not kosher to own because of the cost of feeding one, and symbolized the fall of power....this glosses over the idea that to eliminate a white elephant only engenders a minority of that minority, and the dark elephants then have nothing by which to define themselves as non-white elephants. Hilarious indeed. Since in nature, it takes quite a while for another albino to emerge, this type of reverse-discriminatory thinking is hiding something from us. What it hides is that the white elephant as a symbol, still has a function, even if it cannot do work, only eats, etc., regardless of color. Beware the mouth that utters 'Worthless eater.' In other words, it's like the police as the symbol of the super-ego: this symbol is helping us even when we don't think it is. Ironic that even if the white elephant cop does nothing, it is still functioning as a symbol. The function of this symbol is to oppose the cynical types, by reminding us that our ego means something, but not all that much, in a democracy.

[Toby Stimpson]

*looks about*...huh?...that makes no sense, in India, white elephants are thought of as quite powerful and great to own because they come from the Sky Elephant...or is a descendant of him. Thats why white elephants are considered Holy down there...the other idea makes no sense, I'll reread lol.

Namaste,

Tobias

[Crystal_Raye]

I do believe that Christianity is a valid and very real religion. It isn't for me, but nevertheless. And, yes, I do believe in a real, flesh and blood, historical Jesus.

Same here.

[DarkDancer]

I do believe that Christianity is a real religion, however I do not believe that Jesus ever existed. Beyond the bible there is no documentation of him, and the bible has a difficult time keeping the facts straight.

[TYRRHENUS]

Refering to Jesus:Beyond the bible there is no documentation of him...Hi. This is not true actually. Josephus (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0913573868/ref=pd_sim_books_1/104-2041515-9160709?v=glance&s=books) mentions Jesus by name and is usually considered the only independent source confirming the existence of Jesus. Seutonius also wrote of Jews following Chrestus - a latinized form of the Greek crestos. (Crestos was the name used by Marcionites for Jesus, btw.) A source I think is often overlooked.
What is strange is that Philo, a hellenized Jew and contemporary of Jesus who wrote much concerning the Jewish faith during that time, never mentions Jesus. Which is where the Flavian Hypothesis (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0974092800/qid=1097471531/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-2041515-9160709?v=glance&s=books) comes in. I won't get into it out of respect for our local x-tians, you can investigate that.
Anyway, I voted that Christianity is a real religion. I know because I was born into it.

[~Macha~]

I don't think that Jesus ever claims to be God, or "the way, the truth and the life." Rather, I think Jesus was (like Buddha, Krishna, etc.) enlightened, and that he spoke only of his actions in regards to "the way, the truth and the life." I don't think he meant that he, specifically, was the "only way to Heaven, enlightenment, eternal peace, etc." The bible (esp. the NT) is really very interesting when read how I believe it was meant to be. In fact, I think it's very "Buddhist" in nature, and that, although denied by many, it also supports the idea of reincarnation or rebirth.

Sorry, I used to be Catholic and I couldn't help posting. John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "

[DarkDancer]

Oh, wehen I sdaid that there was no dicumantation of him, I meant by someone who could possibly have met him, 2 of the three that you mentioned were born too late to have met him, the third (Phillio) as you said, does not mention him.....

[Sleet]

Sorry, I used to be Catholic and I couldn't help posting. John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "

Me too - and there are about eight million ways to interpret that utterance of his.

[soilsigh aingeal]

Christianity is as real to christians and as real as whatever your religion is to you. There is no physical proof that one is real and one is not. It's called having faith.

[Mad Dame]

Is Christianity real? Yes. All religions are real to the folk who are of that demonination.
People in general need a source of faith, a source of hope, disipline (sp?) and a place for there soul to rest or move on. There is no right or wrong religion, none are more closer to the "truth" then others, it's all up to people's individual perceptions of the higher being/s.

There is only faith.

My perception is that there is an Ultimate, a Creator, this Ultimate has no name (not that I've found one) and all other Gods and Goddesses are creations of the faith of the poplace. These are my thoughts and I am agnostic.

[Aine of the Fae]

*snickers* since I'm a Christian I kind of have to vote Yes, don't I!

If Christianity is false, then all religions are false. Except maybe Discordia.....

Christianity can be true, and still leave room for other religions, if you don't get into the fundamentalism, which gets annoying at times.... You'd be surprised at the number of liberal Christians who don't hold to the "one true faith" or "only way to God" that fundamentalists insist on.

[Blair]

I abstained. I believe Christianity to be a valid path. I do think there might have been a Jewish philosopher named Jesus but not that he was the son of God or that he did any of the miraclous stuff the Bible claims.

[SacredWithin]

Personally, I think Christianity has yet to be tried. I think there has been some alterations to the Bible and I think that Christianity was meant to be a religion loaded with symbolism and has lots of gnosticism and mysticism in it. :hmmmmm:

[SacredWithin]

I don't think that Jesus ever claims to be God, or "the way, the truth and the life." Rather, I think Jesus was (like Buddha, Krishna, etc.) enlightened, and that he spoke only of his actions in regards to "the way, the truth and the life." I don't think he meant that he, specifically, was the "only way to Heaven, enlightenment, eternal peace, etc." The bible (esp. the NT) is really very interesting when read how I believe it was meant to be. In fact, I think it's very "Buddhist" in nature, and that, although denied by many, it also supports the idea of reincarnation or rebirth.

I think when Jesus said that he is the way, the thruth and the light, I think he meant the way he lives his life. I think he meant that, "by my example, you will find peace within yourselves, just as I have."

[SacredWithin]

I just realized where I had seen the quote about Christians. It is on Rhys signature line. hehehehe he has a post just below. It is attributed to Mahatma Ghandi. I guess that doesn't surprise me. He is the person that I most admire, but was not aware of this quote by him.

I think Gandhi always read the Bible too. We need more people like him. :)

[Amarantha]

I don't think that most of Christianity's rules were the ones that Jesus wanted others to honor and uphold. Jesus was about love and loving others no matter what. Most of Jesus' right hand men were blackhearted fools, that wanted nothing but power. How things came to be I don't know I look at as a big book of parables and some man made laws. I just think Jesus wanted to serve his god and show others compassion. Just like the rest of us.

[LadyV]

Yes, this has the potential to be a very dangerous thread indeed! Now for my answer.. I do not think that Christianity as practiced today, is anything at all of the religion practiced in biblical times. For one thing, Jesus did not want to form a new religion. Sheesh! Most folks can't even remember the fact that Jesus was Jewish, let alone not a cult leader. Christianity was not founded until after his death, hence the name. All of his teachings and parables and lessons were created to try and get Judaism back to the peaceful laws of god. Unfortunately, most people still are under the impression Jesus actually started Christianity. The Bible is the Abridged Version. There have been close to fifty versions or translations of the bible throughout history and there are actual large volumes of gospels that were omitted from the ultra-popular King James version. Essentially, as soon as someone found a disparity, which was invariably, they would excise a chapter that didn't agree with their version of Christianity. This led to the formation of God's Beatles - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - whose gospels were chosen as the definitive volumes. Do I believe in the bible? Well, though I am a generational Witch, Yes I do. It's just that with so much changing, mistranslating and outright deceiving of those that have had power to do so.....much of it's true meaning has been lost....most don't know there are three versions of the ten Commandments, that Eve was not the first female....that there are 13 books known as the Apocrypha which were also in the original King James translation but were removed at the Synod of Dordrecht in 1619, and there are between eighteen to twenty-four books mentioned in the Bible, but not included. The variation is due to possible double mentions using differing names for the same book....aaaaaanyway Christianity of today's worship, would probably make those of biblical day roll over in their graves!

[charmedkisses1]

why does it mattter what we think of christianity? why should we care? what we THINK may not be truth.....

[Shakyamuni007]

This is one of the most insulting inflamatory threads I think I've ever seen on this website! I agree with most that although I don't follow it, I do think its just as lagitimate and "real" as any other faith. However I also think that the church has mauled Jesus original teachings so much that it is no longer a religion about Jesus' teachings, but instead a religion about Jesus. I follow a Buddhist path, but consider Christ to have been a real historicle figure, and a Boddhisattva (one who has reached enlightenment, but has decided to reincarnate one last time before entering Nirvana in order to help the rest of humanity reach enlightenment). Hell, when I finally get my alter together I plan on having a picture or representation of him along with the Buddha, and Thich Nhat Hanh.

[Toby Stimpson]

Hi Shakyamuni, forgive my ignorance but who is Thich Nhat Hanh?....Just going by the name is he a Buddhist spiritual founder in Thahayana? Namaste :)

Tobias

[Marchosias]

I do believe that Christianity is a real religion, however I do not believe that Jesus ever existed.

Contradictory.

There can be no Christianity without a Christ.

Without Jesus, you essentially have Judaism.

[flar7]

Contradictory.

There can be no Christianity without a Christ.

Without Jesus, you essentially have Judaism.
hmm. worthy of discussion indeed. perhaps its own thread.
could the precepts or ideas in christianity exists without the Christ? ie. do unto others, forgive and forget, turn the other cheek. Those are ideas that differ greatly from Judaism.

[DarkDancer]

Contradictory.

There can be no Christianity without a Christ.

Without Jesus, you essentially have Judaism.

I disagree. I believe that the creators of Christianity made Jesus up, or perhaps created him from a composite of Rabbi's. I could be wrong though. But (yeah, I know it is grammatically incorrect to use a conjunction at the beginning of a sentence) anyway, when the founders of the religion created it, they created it around the figure of Jesus, I don't see that it matters whether He existed or not.

[LadyV]

If one can grasp the reality of the Bible's historical setting, then there is only one more hurdle to conqIf one can grasp the reality of the Bible's historical setting, then there is only one more hurdle to conquer. Although the term "dumbing-down" did not exist in the early 17th century, that is exactly the intent of King James when he undertook the project of translating the Bible and it was the inevitable result of that work. This infamous King of England cast a veil over the treasures in this ancient writing. The language he chose was not the common English of the day, but the obscure language of the royal court he commanded. He chose a language not only foreign to the common people, but one so simplistic that it was totally inadequate to properly render the languages it replaced. The competence of the translators was really of little importance considering the true agenda of this despotic, authoritarian and repressive monarch. He had only two goals. One was his desire to be a god-king by affirming the "divine right of kings" and the other was to eliminate the access of the common people to these works. To accomplish this end, he gave his hand picked supervisor of the project, the Bishop of London, strict dogmatic instruction and gave final approval to the book that bears his name. Had it not been what he wanted, it would never have been published. The result is a language nobody understands, numerous purposeful mistranslation and so many words added or deleted, the toll is incalculable. The fruit of his labor has held fast over four centuries. In the world of Bible-based religions, there are more denominations than books in the Bible, more sub-denominations than chapters and more pastoral schisms than verses.

uer. Although the term "dumbing-down" did not exist in the early 17th century, that is exactly the intent of King James when he undertook the project of translating the Bible and it was the inevitable result of that work. This infamous King of England cast a veil over the treasures in this ancient writing. The language he chose was not the common English of the day, but the obscure language of the royal court he commanded. He chose a language not o

The Bible is the Abridged Version. There have been close to fifty versions or translations of the bible throughout history and there are actual large volumes of gospels that were omitted from the ultra-popular King James version. Essentially, as soon as someone found a disparity, which was invariably, they would excise a chapter that didn't agree with their version of Christianity. This led to the formation of God's Beatles - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - whose gospels were chosen as the definitive volumes.

only foreign to the common people, but one so simplistic that it was totally inadequate to properly render the languages it replaced. The competence of the translators was really of little importance considering the true agenda of this despotic, authoritarian and repressive monarch. He had only two goals. One was his desire to be a god-king by affirming the "divine right of kings" and the other was to eliminate the access of the common people to these works. To accomplish this end, he gave his hand picked supervisor of the project, the Bishop of London, strict dogmatic instruction and gave final approval to the book that bears his name. Had it not been what he wanted, it would never have been published. The result is a language nobody understands, numerous purposeful mistranslations and so many words added or deleted, the toll is incalculable. The fruit of his labor has held fast over four centuries. In the world of Bible-based religions, there are more denominations than books in the Bible, more sub-denominations than chapters and more pastoral schisms than verses.
Is Christiaity true? Not the way it practiced today....it has been twisted and manipulated to fit mankind

[Infinite Grey]

I disagree. I believe that the creators of Christianity made Jesus up, or perhaps created him from a composite of Rabbi's. I could be wrong though. But (yeah, I know it is grammatically incorrect to use a conjunction at the beginning of a sentence) anyway, when the founders of the religion created it, they created it around the figure of Jesus, I don't see that it matters whether He existed or not.

I disagree, if we can believe in the paranormal and magic related instances. Isn't it conceivable that Jesus existed and is the son of a God? This doesn't mean we have to follow that particular god, but maybe there was such a man. Remember Christians weren't always arrogant bigots, when they first started out their faith was know as "the way" and were just as persecuted as any other religion. The original message was all but lost as Christians gained power, power corrupts. The original Christians had no desire for power, but the religions name has been tarnished after the Roman Empire adopted it and the atrocities for which it is none began.

Christian's refuse to believe in other religions because of the doctrines in which they must follow. Would you compromise parts of your religion to appease another? Hopefully not. I do believe Christians have committed great wrongs in the past and present, and they should be more tolerant towards other religions. They should respect other peoples choices even if they don't themselves believe in it, as should we. Forcing someone into your belief is just wrong on both sides of the argument, we should leave them to their belief and they should leave us to ours. Neither is as right or as wrong as the other.

Respect and be respected, live and let live.
_vb_

[LittleRhiannon]

Honestly? While I don't know if the original religion correct, I don't believe that the Christianity currently being practiced is correct.

I know my religion is correct. I also know that it's not the only one. If one religion says that it IS the only one, then that would seem to me to be incorrect, and for Christianity, that concept seems to be one of the more important ones.

*shrugs*

I don't mean to be offensive, but thats what I believe.

[equinox2]

Yeah, definitely a thread with a lot of potential for bashing. As others have mentioned, the questions must be more specific to be able to answer in a meaningful way.

Here are some specific questions I can answer for me:

Do I think a historical Jesus really existed?

Yes. I’m about 80% sure of that. Dark Dancer said:

Beyond the bible there is no documentation of him, and the bible has a difficult time keeping the facts straight.

And a short discussion ensued about Josephus, Pilo, and others. DD is right that there is no certain record of him, but that is also true for most historical figures that long ago. DD is also right about the Bible having a hard time keeping it's story straight (even after editing). DD is also right that Christianity could have sprung up without Jesus.

However, Josephus’s work is good evidence for a real Jesus, after you take out the exaggerations probably added by Christian scribes. Plus there are other reasons for me to think that Jesus did exist. So if I had to guess, I’d say 80% yes he existed, 20% Jesus didn’t exist. We could spend a lot of time on that (and I have on other threads).

Which Doctrines of modern Christianity do I think are factually correct?
Here are some examples:

Was Jesus born of a Virgin? I’d guess no.

Did Jesus’s dead body return to life and walk around (and through walls, Jn 20:19)? I’d guess no.

Did many dead bodies return to life and walk around Jerusalem during an earthquake when Jesus died? I’d guess no.

Did the Jews pressure the Romans into killing Jesus even though the Romans didn’t want to? I’d guess no.

Was Jesus God’s only son – god himself, unlike any other humans? I’d guess no.

Is it a good thing to treat one’s neighbor as oneself? I’d guess yes.

Did Jesus really quote Lev 19 “treat one’s neighbor as oneself”? I’d guess yes.

Was the early church a continuation of Jesus’ views? I’d guess no.

Did Jesus himself claim to be God? I’d guess no. (though the gospel of John repeats over and over that he did, I see the GoJ as a pious fiction).

Did any disciple write any of the books of the Bible? I’d guess no.

Did any of the writers of the books of the Bible actually even see Jesus while he was alive? I’d guess no.

Was Jesus a perfect role model, with only good teachings? I’d guess no – some of his teachings that appear to be authentic are harmful, even though so many people (especially, ironically, Pagans) want to sugar coat him.

Is Christianity as valid a religion as most other religions? I’d guess yes.

Is being Christian the only way to avoid writhing in everlasting torment in a place reserved for all non-Christians? (This is perhaps the most unanimous doctrine of Christianity). I'd guess no.

Etc. We can discuss any of these if we want – I’d suggest a new thread in “Theology”, but first look for old threads – there probably was one on that subject.



Winged tigerchild wrote:
I do not think that the bible was meant to be interpreted literally, as there are many things in contradiction to each other when done so. I.E. Paul's speech on women in the church versus Jesus. If we read the bible according to it's historical, cultural and scriptural context, it makes sense and does not contradict itself.

I disagree, some things do appear to be very contradictory, even (especially!) when read in their historical context. I’ve found a better way to examine the contradictions is to look at the bias of each writer, and recognize that the different books were written by different people to describe different religions.

When allowed to speak for themselves, each book doesn’t usually contradict itself, though it may contradict other books we call part of the “bible”. Remember that these different books weren’t gathered up into one volume for hundreds of years after they were written, the authors certainly didn’t write them as part of “the bible”, but rather as their view.

I don't think that Jesus ever claims to be God, or "the way, the truth and the life."

I think he does. The part where he does is quoted earlier. Sleet mentions that one could interpret it differently, but I think that takes a lot of mental gymnastics. More importantly, it fits with what the Gospel of John says over and over – elevating Jesus beyond mere mortals. In fact, that seems to be the GoJ’s main point.


Ladyleo wrote:
i'm not going to say much further because i'm not going to bash christianity, or be accused of it.

OK, I won’t accuse you of Christianity!

(sorry, I just couldn’t resist the joke about the pronoun reference!) :smile:

Love and light-

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

Yes, it is. Even Scott Cunningham said that Christianity was a perfectly valid religion. Where the legions of Cunningham clones get the idea that Christianity is the cause of all the world's ills escapes me. But I digress.
A Christian, in my view, is a person who follows the teachings of one Jesus Christ, commobly believed to be the S n of God, although Jesus himself didn't really say so, preferring to call himself the Son of Man. I think that Jesus had a lot of great things to say - Jesus is just all right with me! I don't think he'd be very happy to see what that bastard 'saint' Paul did to his teachings, but he couldn't really do anything about it, what with being dead and all. And in Paul's defence, paul was only doing what he had to do to ensure that the Church survived. The very conservative Roman world in which Christianity developed came down hard on the new message of Jesus, and Paul changed things so that the infant Church wouldn't be wiped out. I don't agree with most of what he did, but it's too late to do anything about it now.
A very good, and very Christian, friend of mine once told me that I was one of the most Christian and Chist-like people he knew, and I took it as a great compliment. He told me this after he knew I was a Wiccan.
I believe that there was someone named Jesus , but I'm unsure as to whether or not all the stories connected to him are real or not. I was not there, so I cannot say. I believe that Jesus was what the Hindus call an Avator, a being filled with divine spirit. He doesn't matter to me as much as my own constantly changing Lord and Lady, but he's up there somewhere.
Another very good friend told me that she believes in God, and described him as an old man sitting up in Heaven in a rocking chair, loving everyone and having a good laugh at whatever it is we're up to.
Um, yes. I'm going round in circles here. Suffice it t say that Christianity is a true religion. Bashing it for the sake of bashing is dishonourable and low. Those why cater to it are not nice people.

[Amethyst Rose]

Ah crap! I voted wrong... I meant to say that Christianity is real...but I put not real by accident.

[Tajemnica]

I don't see how so many pagans can say that Christianity is truly, 100% "real" and mean it, because if they did, they would be Christians. Christianity, as I understand it, claims to be the ONLY true way to God, that you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, and also that polytheism is a major no-no (first of the 10 commandments). I'd *like* to be able to say that all religions are true, but since a number of them have "this is THE true religion" as one of their tenets, I cannot honestly say that I think that all of them are entirely true.

[Sith]

I believe that it's real and there was a real life Jesus eons ago. As far as following a belief system that surrounds him, eh, that's kind of a grey area for me.
Actually, I heard there was evidence that he really existed. At any rate, Jesus was a messenger. He told us what people needed to hear and he was killed for it. Much later, Christ's message is used for anything that can support some weird political idea. I believe that the only true Christians in history were Jesus and his posse. After that, his message was corrupted for other ends. Thats one reason why I left.

[Amethyst Rose]

I don't see how so many pagans can say that Christianity is truly, 100% "real" and mean it, because if they did, they would be Christians. Christianity, as I understand it, claims to be the ONLY true way to God, that you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, and also that polytheism is a major no-no (first of the 10 commandments). I'd *like* to be able to say that all religions are true, but since a number of them have "this is THE true religion" as one of their tenets, I cannot honestly say that I think that all of them are entirely true.


That depends on your definition of "real". Of course it's a real religion. Do I believe with it's tennents? Not all of them, but that doesn't make it any less real. Every religion is valid in it's own right. I don't care if you're a member of the Church of BOB, if it's valid to you, it's valid.

[Pandoras]

I don't see how so many pagans can say that Christianity is truly, 100% "real" and mean it, because if they did, they would be Christians. Christianity, as I understand it, claims to be the ONLY true way to God, that you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, and also that polytheism is a major no-no (first of the 10 commandments). I'd *like* to be able to say that all religions are true, but since a number of them have "this is THE true religion" as one of their tenets, I cannot honestly say that I think that all of them are entirely true.

I can't speak for other Pagans, but I will say that I do believe that Christianity is a real and valid religion (especially for the millions of people who practice it). But for me, as a Pagan, I view Christianity as only one of many real and valid religions. I certainly didn't say anything in my previous post about Christianity being the one and only true religion. I realize that's what many Christians believe, but that's their problem. I'm Pagan through and through; I don't worry about Christian doctrine.

[AuroraSilvermist]

All religions are real; anything you have faith in is real...at least to you. Religion is a way of making deity, something that is beyond human understanding, accessible. How we choose to see deity is an individual thing, but no belief system is any less valid than another.

[Marchosias]

hmm. worthy of discussion indeed. perhaps its own thread.
could the precepts or ideas in christianity exists without the Christ? ie. do unto others, forgive and forget, turn the other cheek. Those are ideas that differ greatly from Judaism.

The ideas and precepts of Christianity, without Christ, give you two things: The Old Testament and a philosphy.

Without the philosophy, you essentially have Judaism, give or take.

Besides, with no "Christ", how can there be a "Christ"ianity?

[DarkDancer]

I disagree, if we can believe in the paranormal and magic related instances. Isn't it conceivable that Jesus existed and is the son of a God? This doesn't mean we have to follow that particular god, but maybe there was such a man. Remember Christians weren't always arrogant bigots, when they first started out their faith was know as "the way" and were just as persecuted as any other religion. The original message was all but lost as Christians gained power, power corrupts. The original Christians had no desire for power, but the religions name has been tarnished after the Roman Empire adopted it and the atrocities for which it is none began.


Christian's refuse to believe in other religions because of the doctrines in which they must follow. Would you compromise parts of your religion to appease another? Hopefully not. I do believe Christians have committed great wrongs in the past and present, and they should be more tolerant towards other religions. They should respect other peoples choices even if they don't themselves believe in it, as should we. Forcing someone into your belief is just wrong on both sides of the argument, we should leave them to their belief and they should leave us to ours. Neither is as right or as wrong as the other.

Oh, I'll admit, maybe there was, I just don't think so. It has nothing to do with miracles and wonders, so much as it seems that there would be at least a mention of such a one as Jesus from one of his contemporaries.

Also, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just said what I believe and why. As always, you are all free to believe what you like.... _travolta_

[Infinite Grey]

Oh, I'll admit, maybe there was, I just don't think so. It has nothing to do with miracles and wonders, so much as it seems that there would be at least a mention of such a one as Jesus from one of his contemporaries.

Also, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just said what I believe and why. As always, you are all free to believe what you like.... _travolta_

That is cool, just don't be so quick to dimiss anothers belief. :awilly:

[Rudas Starblaze]

drop it already. everyone has there own beliefs, leave it at that, if you think your better then some one else,,,,,, wake up, your not...............

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

[VroomBroom]

Do you belive Christianity is a true religion, ie. there is a G!d and there was a Jesus (etc) or not? (You can also vote to abstain.) Why?
Do I believe Christanity is a religion?

Yes

Do I believe there was a person named Jesus?

Yes

My add on question to this poll is.........

Do I believe the things written in the bible?:hmmmmm:

No

[Faerin]

Do I believe Christanity is a religion?

Yes

Do I believe there was a person named Jesus?

Yes

My add on question to this poll is.........

Do I believe the things written in the bible?:hmmmmm:

No

I feel the same way. The Bible is claimed to be inspired by the Divine, but yet it has so many contradictions....and where the heck do they mention anything about dinosaurs?

Flaws in the Bible, or not, doesn't matter to me. If Christians want to believe in what they do, I think it's awesome. Buddhists? great! Jewish? wonderful! It all leads to a higher power which I think is more important than proving or disproving anyone's faith. Maybe historical artifacts don't all add up to explain exactly what is true or not, but I think the higher powers are understanding if we don't all agree. As long as we believe.

[VroomBroom]

I feel the same way. The Bible is claimed to be inspired by the Divine, but yet it has so many contradictions....and where the heck do they mention anything about dinosaurs? .........


I've had that same argument with many people......and never get a straight answer about the dinosaurs.:hmmmmm:

[Faerwolf]

Yes, i think Christianity is a real religion, whatever a "real" religion is, Yes, i beleive there was a man named Jesus, I don't choose to worship as a Christian, I don't beleive everything in the Bible is true, i think it is over translated for political conquest. It does make some good points though, that i cannot credit to the Bible originaly, but rooted from a much older beleif system.

[Rudas Starblaze]

I've had that same argument with many people......and never get a straight answer about the dinosaurs.:hmmmmm:



dragons and dinasaurs are the same thing, anyone with common since could have figured that out by now, for goodness sakes we are witches, wiccas, and pagans,,,,,, i believe one of the things we are supposed to live by is using our minds. for the millionth time will everyone just check out the website, answeres in genisis. org already. i know most of you may be scared to, but you should atleast be willing to learn that which you dont know.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

[VroomBroom]

I don't know what makes you think can judge someones common sense by one post, but you cannot.
And I know that most of us around here are more than willing to go to website thats been suggested to look into something, but even that isn't going to change the minds of most people.
And to say that most of us are scared to go to a website is not only childish, but rude.

G'Day!

[Faerin]

dragons and dinasaurs are the same thing, anyone with common since could have figured that out by now, for goodness sakes we are witches, wiccas, and pagans,,,,,, i believe one of the things we are supposed to live by is using our minds. for the millionth time will everyone just check out the website, answeres in genisis. org already. i know most of you may be scared to, but you should atleast be willing to learn that which you dont know.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

Please quote a verse from the Bible that says they are the same, or tell me so I can go find it myself. Since you've answered this question a million times you should probably know it by heart, right?

I could comment on the rest of your post but....well lets just leave it at that.

[mcc]

This poll is very oddly worded...

No! Not real! There is no such thing as Christianity! The "Catholic Church" is just a mass hallucination! Or maybe swamp gas!

^_^

[Aine of the Fae]

dragons and dinasaurs are the same thing, anyone with common since could have figured that out by now, for goodness sakes we are witches, wiccas, and pagans,,,,,, i believe one of the things we are supposed to live by is using our minds. for the millionth time will everyone just check out the website, answeres in genisis. org already. i know most of you may be scared to, but you should atleast be willing to learn that which you dont know.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

Answers in Genesis is a far-right wing, mega-fundamentalist, conservative Christian ministry aimed at "proving" that Genesis is literal. And they use some very.... un-Christian tactics to do so. Most of their science is quack, pseudo-science, twisting the information they want to "prove" their points, and just ignoring everything else. If it doesn't fit into their neat little world-view it's just a trick of the devil, no other explanation necessary.

They turn God into a liar. Consider this:

If the Earth was created in a literal 6 days (He could do it...) that happened less than ten thousand years ago, why is there SOLID evidence of societies, people, plants and animals existing long before that? And I'm not talking about information as shaky as carbon-dating, I'm talking about things as consistent and reliable as tree-rings. That's right dear children, tree rings. Each year a tree develops a new growth ring. Scientists can tell the history of the tree based on the rings. But more than that, they can see the history of the environment in which that tree lived. Unusually harsh, drought-stricken years would produce thinner rings, warmer, wetter years would produce thicker rings. Diseases would produce variation in the rings as well, as would infestations of insects.

There are trees that can be dated back THOUSANDS of years, earlier than the supposed creation of the Earth 6000 years ago. Now, why would God produce false histories in these trees? He COULD create the Earth instantaneously, or in six days, or however He wanted to, but the evidence shows that he didn't, and Answers in Genesis ignores that evidence, or tries to reinterpret that evidence to fit their agenda.

And they do have an agenda and try to use science for that. They try to make the science fit their agenda instead of letting the science speak for itself.

There is NO evidence that the dragons described in the Bible are dinosaurs, although it is a plausible theory. But to say that anyone with common sense would have figured it out by now is rude and condescending. Anyone with common sense would know we don't have all the answers.

And I must say that if you believe what AIG spews then you probably shouldn't be hanging out with the heathens, they might pollute your mind and send demons after you.....

[Morr]

um ive only been reading the last few threads but,,

genisis is an acient sumerian creation story that was modified a bit by the bible authors.

which would make sense since Y-H-V-H was one God in the Pantheon of Sumerian Gods, and that creation story may have been attributed to him.

[Shanti]

Who would I be to judge what is real? Real is 'real' to the one that believes it!

[Keroberos]

real is simply made by belief whatever people believe is real to them and that's all that matters. No one should ever be forced to believe something they're not comfortable with. so of course Christianity is valid and anyone who thinks differently is rude and is just as bad as those right wing Christians who say we're not valid (and going to hell or whatever). The point it no one (especially us since we tout understanding and openmindedness) should be judgemental about another's religion.

[ValiantKnight]

It's a real religon for those who belive in it, For me I tried it for a while didn't like the results. But I'm am not one to say that no one shouldn't belive in it, nor to tell people to follow in what I belive. Thats seems to be the thing around my neck of the woods, to many door to door religous pushers!!!!

[WingedTigerChild]

Do what my Grandpa does and answer the door in the nude! lol :heybaby:

[Aine of the Fae]

Do what my Grandpa does and answer the door in the nude! lol :heybaby:

Or as my friends dad used to do, scream "Nikki, get away from that TV, you know we only worship Satan on Fridays!"

Sends them running everytime :D

Personally, I'm all for evangelism, being a Christian and all :D But I think some people take it too far. It's one thing to say "This is what I believe, and this is how it's changed me life" and then leave it open for discussion, it's an entirely different thing to say "You have to believe this or else..." and then keep pushing it.

Continuous pushing is rude, and completely un-Biblical, something that should be pointed out to people who insist on the literal interpretations of the Bible (but notice it's only what THEY want that's literal, and things such as "Give everything away...." aren't really meant to be literal...... yeah... ok....) Jesus said to spread the Good News, but if people didn't want to listen, walk away.

[Rudas Starblaze]

Please quote a verse from the Bible that says they are the same, or tell me so I can go find it myself. Since you've answered this question a million times you should probably know it by heart, right?

I could comment on the rest of your post but....well lets just leave it at that.


the word "dinosaur" is a 20th century word, everyone should know that by know. i was prepared for this kind of reply!!!!! for starters, you dont even need biblicle referance for this. lets think about this for moment, what are dragons? what are dinosaurs? they are large, sometimes scaled, sometimes not, creatures. some fly, some travel by land, some travel by water (ocean, seas, lakes, ect.). now, as for the word dinosaur, if we were capable of time travel, and went back, oh lets say about about 500+ years (not thats a recent enough number) and we were to see what we call a dinosaur, and we were accompanied by a local of that time, if we said "hey thats a dinosaur" there reply would be "whats a dinosaur??? thats a dragon!!!!" because the word dinosaur, like i said, is a 20th century word.
now, we say dinosaurs are extint, so why are there still crocodiles and aligators? they are the same thing. why are there reports of "Nessy"?, why are there reports of other sea going creatures that we have no idea exsist? now in the bible, it speaks of the great flood. we have all heard the story, there are others like it in every culture around the world. ok, before i get started on the great flood, let me enlighten you on some analogies in a different term.
a diamond,,,, ok it takes nature how long to produce these beautiful gems? well, a man can make a diamond faster and better then nature can, its proven, what do you think people use for glass cutting, they arent going to pay a fortune for a natural diamond. well, everyone knows it takes a substancial amout of pressure on a piece of coal to make a diamond. now, back to the great flood, these diamonds are found where???? caves. ok so caves go deep under ground, now anyone who has been in a cave knows the amount of gravity, or pressure that is present. now add more weight then you can imagine ontop of that...... a diamond is made!!!!! ask yourself why we cant watch a cave make a diamond under normal circumstances. dont even think because it takes millions of years.

ok, another thing about the pressure of the great flood. petrification. add the minerals from the soil that was displaced. what happens to minerals when met with an organic material under alot of pressure,,,, it turns to "stone" in other words, petrification. so we take all the creatures that were not spared by the ark, cover them with sediment (minerals), add tons and tons of pressure, what happens????? fossils.

so what about the sea going creatures you ask??? well, think of it like turning a teen loose in six flags!!!! "gee, no wonder there are still the unknown creatures of the sea???" we know of a few as in the crocs and gators.
"well, science says dinosaurs died out millions of years ago" well,,,,, what can i say possible say to that??? science is nothing but theory, they admit that themselves, like a myth so to speak, scientist never give a straight answere, they just give options or ideas, carbon dating is wrong they found out.
in the bible, they speak of the firey flying serpant (dragon of fairyrale stories). most believe that they never exsisted,,, but what of the beatle in south america that "spits fire" as a self defense mechanism???? (its actually acid but still has the same effect), i will have to contact A I G for a more descriptive explaination on the firey flying sepant.

but yes if you have read the bible they do speak of the dragons and since the word dinosaur wasnt even thought of 2000+ years ago why would there be such a thing to the authors of the bible?
just remember the science we are taught in schools about evolution and dinosaurs was a mad mans idea over 200 years ago, but now we take it as basic knowledge,,,, GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are witches, wiccas, and pagans,,,,, we should know the truth that is handed down through history, not what some freak who thinks there is no such thing as God, (the goddess and god) and the other dieties.

there is so much more i wanted to add but my goodness this was long enough!!!!

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

[Rudas Starblaze]

Answers in Genesis is a far-right wing, mega-fundamentalist, conservative Christian ministry aimed at "proving" that Genesis is literal. And they use some very.... un-Christian tactics to do so. Most of their science is quack, pseudo-science, twisting the information they want to "prove" their points, and just ignoring everything else. If it doesn't fit into their neat little world-view it's just a trick of the devil, no other explanation necessary.

They turn God into a liar. Consider this:

If the Earth was created in a literal 6 days (He could do it...) that happened less than ten thousand years ago, why is there SOLID evidence of societies, people, plants and animals existing long before that? And I'm not talking about information as shaky as carbon-dating, I'm talking about things as consistent and reliable as tree-rings. That's right dear children, tree rings. Each year a tree develops a new growth ring. Scientists can tell the history of the tree based on the rings. But more than that, they can see the history of the environment in which that tree lived. Unusually harsh, drought-stricken years would produce thinner rings, warmer, wetter years would produce thicker rings. Diseases would produce variation in the rings as well, as would infestations of insects.

There are trees that can be dated back THOUSANDS of years, earlier than the supposed creation of the Earth 6000 years ago. Now, why would God produce false histories in these trees? He COULD create the Earth instantaneously, or in six days, or however He wanted to, but the evidence shows that he didn't, and Answers in Genesis ignores that evidence, or tries to reinterpret that evidence to fit their agenda.

And they do have an agenda and try to use science for that. They try to make the science fit their agenda instead of letting the science speak for itself.

There is NO evidence that the dragons described in the Bible are dinosaurs, although it is a plausible theory. But to say that anyone with common sense would have figured it out by now is rude and condescending. Anyone with common sense would know we don't have all the answers.

And I must say that if you believe what AIG spews then you probably shouldn't be hanging out with the heathens, they might pollute your mind and send demons after you.....

well, i was impressed by you at one time. i dont hang on everything AIG says. but like my previous post, the word "dinosaur" is a 20th century word,,, why dont you prove me wrong???? show me some historical facts about the word "dinosaur". and last time i checked the oldest tree was only a few thousand years old, not 6 to 10 thousand years old as the eath has been estimated due to scientific scew ups.

if you believe in science,,,

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

[Aine of the Fae]

That's the second time you've said "we are witches....." You do realize that the Bible is from the Judeo-Christian tradition right? And that anyone who isn't a part of that tradition isn't going to rely on it? Even some of those from that tradition have a hard time relying on it as completely accurate. It contradicts science, which isn't just thrown together out of the minds of men. It's not science unless it can be demonstrated again and again to be true. The Bible contradicts history, and it contradicts itself. There is evidence of multiple writers, just take a look at the book of Job and you have evidence of at least two writers at two very different times, and possibly even three writers. Many of the stories in the OT are derived from similar stories in other cultures. Let's look at Job again. Only one name in that book is of Hebrew origin, that of Elihu, and that is the section of the book that has the most drastic contrast to the rest! The other names seem to have a Babylonian origin and the story itself has a great deal of similarity to other Babylonian stories of the same time period.

The 'dragons' mentioned in the Bible are often representative of concepts, such as the concept of evil. The only two creatures that might possibly resemble dinosaurs are the leviathin and the behemoth, neither of which are described as a dragon.

Now as for the trees. There are bristlecone pine trees that are still living that are over 4000 years old, there are some creosote bushes in the Mojave Desert that may be as old as 7000 years, calling into serious question AIG's accepted age of the Earth at 6000 years. If the Earth is only 6000 years old, how can a bush be 7000 years old?

Now look at this site:

http://www.rmtrr.org/oldlist.htm

It lists the maximum known ages of trees. Consider this hypothetical situation:

Archaeologist are excavating a village that has been buried for 3000 years. That's only 1000 years before Christ, and a time that is generally accepted that people were around and quite happily using and abusing their God-given free will. In this village is found a tree, preserved as well. Let's say that the village was buried by a natural disaster such as a flood or volcano. Now, that tree, using tree-ring aging, is said to be 4000 years old. Quite possible (remember that site I showed you). That puts the tree at over 7000 years old. 1000 years before the supposed creation of the Earth.

Now if the Biblical accounts are literal, then how did that tree exist for 1000 years before the Earth? Hmmm? It couldn't! But if that's the case, then why does the evidence show that it did? Now of course that's a hypothetical situation.

Here's a real one:

http://www.dpiwe.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/WebPages/BHAN-5494LA?open

Look at the listing for the Huon Pine. That's a grove of trees in Tasmania. What's more important is that they are actually trees, it's more like tree, in the singular. Every single one is genetically identical, and they are ALL male, which means there isn't a chance of reproduction. The branches became so weighed down by snow that they touched the ground and the brances developed roots, giving the appearance of individual trees! Now, the age of that "grove" is estimated to be 10,000 years old! So how can a grove of trees exist 4,000 years before the Earth did?

Young-Earth Creationism makes God a liar. Because if it's true the He placed false evidence of an ancient Earth.

Now as for your linguistic argument about dinosaurs and dragons in the Bible. Nope, the word dinosaur didn't exist in until recent history. But the word dragon doesn't ever appear in the Bible. In the Old Testament it's the word:

H8577
תּנּים תּנּין
tannîyn tannîym
tan-neen', tan-neem'
(The second form used in Eze_29:3); intensive from the same as H8565; a marine or land monster, that is, sea serpent or jackal: - dragon, sea-monster, serpent, whale.

Still no proof that it's dinosaurs. I said that it's a plausible explanation, but from the context of the passages, it's unlikely, and given the current findings of science, it's even more unlikely. But from looking at the definition of that word, it could be a whale, or even an elephant! An elephant is a large land monster, especially to someone who may never have seen one before.

I'm a Christian, I have great faith in God, and recent trials in my life have made that faith grow even stronger.

But I am not a Biblical literalist, nor do I feel the need to make science fit a limited world-view in order to preserve my faith. My faith isn't in a book, it's in God.

Now, I'm going to try to be as nice as possible in saying this, but if it comes across as elsewise oh well.

If you believe in a literal creation account in the Bible, if you believe that Genesis is to be used as a science textbook, and insist on spewing the garbage that groups like AIG feed you, then you can't call yourself a witch. Why? Because that very same book that you are touting as undeniable fact says that you can't. In fact it says that we should kill you and anyone like you. If you say that one part is literal without examining other evidence, then you can't pick and choose the rest.

If you are going to pick and choose, have at it. I do. But don't try to insist that your views are the only correct way, and that your interpretation is the only correct one. Until I got sick, I was studying the Bible, intensely. I'm attending Bible college for crying out loud! You have to take every passage in context, and you HAVE to examine the culture in which it was written. YECers ignore that, completely. And all the "facts" that you come in spouting, all the arguments that "the word dinosaur didn't exist then...." just make you look like a Ken Ham clone/wannabe.

[Rudas Starblaze]

Aine, i couldnt help but laugh. those are my beliefs before i even heard of AIG. i even said "the authors of the bible" in my previous post. so you cant treat me like i didnt know that already. and one other thing,,,,,,, Ken Ham is my brothers father-in-law,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you dont even want to know what they think of me.......... EVIL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, cause i have long hair and have my own beliefs in christianity thats not like everyone elses. fortunatly my brother has been able to sway some of there veiws. my brother just started working there about 2 years ago, before that, i never heard of them. you know, as i have read in books about witchcraft and wiccas, the verse is actual translations is "thou shall not suffer a prisoner to live" not thou shall not suffer a witch to live like its written in the queen jimmy version. so if i am not a witch, then what am i???? it seems to me that i can do things you all can do and some others that you cant. please enlighten me.

[serenarian]

I believe Christianity is a real, true and established religion. It just isn't the one I choose to practise. I believe all belief systems are equally valid.

[Tullip Troll]

Like all things it's a little bit of truth in a field of lies...what makes it real is your relationship with the divine whomever that may be...

MheraPai

[Rudas Starblaze]

Like all things it's a little bit of truth in a field of lies...what makes it real is your relationship with the divine whomever that may be...

MheraPai


you made me smile!!!!!!! thanx!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in light, love, and wisdom
Rudas Starblaze

[Faerin]

the word "dinosaur" is a 20th century word, everyone should know that by know. i was prepared for this kind of reply!!!!! for starters, you dont even need biblicle referance for this. lets think about this for moment, what are dragons? what are dinosaurs? they are large, sometimes scaled, sometimes not, creatures. some fly, some travel by land, some travel by water (ocean, seas, lakes, ect.). now, as for the word dinosaur, if we were capable of time travel, and went back, oh lets say about about 500+ years (not thats a recent enough number) and we were to see what we call a dinosaur, and we were accompanied by a local of that time, if we said "hey thats a dinosaur" there reply would be "whats a dinosaur??? thats a dragon!!!!" because the word dinosaur, like i said, is a 20th century word.
now, we say dinosaurs are extint, so why are there still crocodiles and aligators? they are the same thing. why are there reports of "Nessy"?, why are there reports of other sea going creatures that we have no idea exsist? now in the bible, it speaks of the great flood. we have all heard the story, there are others like it in every culture around the world. ok, before i get started on the great flood, let me enlighten you on some analogies in a different term.
a diamond,,,, ok it takes nature how long to produce these beautiful gems? well, a man can make a diamond faster and better then nature can, its proven, what do you think people use for glass cutting, they arent going to pay a fortune for a natural diamond. well, everyone knows it takes a substancial amout of pressure on a piece of coal to make a diamond. now, back to the great flood, these diamonds are found where???? caves. ok so caves go deep under ground, now anyone who has been in a cave knows the amount of gravity, or pressure that is present. now add more weight then you can imagine ontop of that...... a diamond is made!!!!! ask yourself why we cant watch a cave make a diamond under normal circumstances. dont even think because it takes millions of years.

ok, another thing about the pressure of the great flood. petrification. add the minerals from the soil that was displaced. what happens to minerals when met with an organic material under alot of pressure,,,, it turns to "stone" in other words, petrification. so we take all the creatures that were not spared by the ark, cover them with sediment (minerals), add tons and tons of pressure, what happens????? fossils.

so what about the sea going creatures you ask??? well, think of it like turning a teen loose in six flags!!!! "gee, no wonder there are still the unknown creatures of the sea???" we know of a few as in the crocs and gators.
"well, science says dinosaurs died out millions of years ago" well,,,,, what can i say possible say to that??? science is nothing but theory, they admit that themselves, like a myth so to speak, scientist never give a straight answere, they just give options or ideas, carbon dating is wrong they found out.
in the bible, they speak of the firey flying serpant (dragon of fairyrale stories). most believe that they never exsisted,,, but what of the beatle in south america that "spits fire" as a self defense mechanism???? (its actually acid but still has the same effect), i will have to contact A I G for a more descriptive explaination on the firey flying sepant.

but yes if you have read the bible they do speak of the dragons and since the word dinosaur wasnt even thought of 2000+ years ago why would there be such a thing to the authors of the bible?
just remember the science we are taught in schools about evolution and dinosaurs was a mad mans idea over 200 years ago, but now we take it as basic knowledge,,,, GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are witches, wiccas, and pagans,,,,, we should know the truth that is handed down through history, not what some freak who thinks there is no such thing as God, (the goddess and god) and the other dieties.

there is so much more i wanted to add but my goodness this was long enough!!!!

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

First of all, your snotty little retort is unnecessary. Second of all, you are spouting information that I already know. Third, you never answered my question. I asked for a verse in the Bible which you failed to provide.

You throw out all this information and analogies and claim to "enlighten me"...when all you're doing is trying to prove that dragons and dinosaurs are one in the same. You try to use science to explain an assumption, well it doesn't work with me.

[dr_zeus440]

well, i was impressed by you at one time. i dont hang on everything AIG says. but like my previous post, the word "dinosaur" is a 20th century word,,, why dont you prove me wrong???? show me some historical facts about the word "dinosaur". and last time i checked the oldest tree was only a few thousand years old, not 6 to 10 thousand years old as the eath has been estimated due to scientific scew ups.

if you believe in science,,,

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

EHHHHHHH, WRONG, no-one has to prove you wrong, you have to prove yourself right, burden of proof. besides, the origins of the word "dinosaur" are about as relevant to this debate as the origins of the word "disney".

and SECONDLY (and this little gem comes direct to you all from the 'A' book of the World Book Encyclopaedia)

Australia, History of. The first people in Australia were Aborigines who arrived <cough> at least 50,000 years ago.

[Rudas Starblaze]

First of all, your snotty little retort is unnecessary. Second of all, you are spouting information that I already know. Third, you never answered my question. I asked for a verse in the Bible which you failed to provide.

You throw out all this information and analogies and claim to "enlighten me"...when all you're doing is trying to prove that dragons and dinosaurs are one in the same. You try to use science to explain an assumption, well it doesn't work with me.


Job 41, vrs 1-34

read it, its exactly how fairytale dragons are described is it not? and if i have nothing to do with science, why do you say i do? can we all except the fact we all have our own beliefs and get over it. i never once said that you and everyone had to beleive what i do, i was just throwing out my opinions just as everyone has. im sorry if i made it sound like an attack :loveydove

[Faerin]

Job 41, vrs 1-34

read it, its exactly how fairytale dragons are described is it not? and if i have nothing to do with science, why do you say i do? can we all except the fact we all have our own beliefs and get over it. i never once said that you and everyone had to beleive what i do, i was just throwing out my opinions just as everyone has. im sorry if i made it sound like an attack :loveydove

thanks for the verse, I'll be sure to check it out today sometime. I don't get what you mean by "if I have nothing to do with science, why do you say I do?" That statement doesn't make sense to me. I was just trying to explain that I wanted a verse in the Bible (which pertained to the original question), and not a 6th grade science refresher.

You implied that I (as well as everyone else) should have the same beliefs you do:
dragons and dinasaurs are the same thing, anyone with common since could have figured that out by now, for goodness sakes we are witches, wiccas, and pagans,,,,,,
not only did you imply that we should believe the same things you do, but you insulted me that I would question it.

I accept your apology about feeling attacked, but I don't like being insulted on a discussion thread, especially when you say that it's ok for everyone to have their beliefs, yet you ridicule those who express them.

[flar7]

The ideas and precepts of Christianity, without Christ, give you two things: The Old Testament and a philosphy.

Without the philosophy, you essentially have Judaism, give or take.

Besides, with no "Christ", how can there be a "Christ"ianity?
hehe.
Judaism is not "forgive and forget." Its, "an eye for an eye."

the precepts are very different. more like an educational book.
chapter 1. how to live and not die of your own crap and dumbness
chapter 2. (Christianity) how to love and treat each other as you should have known by common sense.

hehehe, me an my friends love talking about the "old days" and God's chosen back then. S-M-A-R-T... yep. smart. :D

[audi]

i converted from christianity to wicca.
i didnt believe in jesus. or much of anything else they had to say for that matter, lol. wicca is much better for me. im am happy here. it feels more like home.
*hugs*

[Aine of the Fae]

Job 41, vrs 1-34

read it, its exactly how fairytale dragons are described is it not? and if i have nothing to do with science, why do you say i do? can we all except the fact we all have our own beliefs and get over it. i never once said that you and everyone had to beleive what i do, i was just throwing out my opinions just as everyone has. im sorry if i made it sound like an attack :loveydove

The book of Job is of extremely questionable origin, appearing to have been written by at least two, possibly three different people. All of the names, with the exception of Elihu, are not of Jewish origin, and the style of writing is very similar to Babylonian writings of the same time periods.

That particular passage seems to be describing a crocodile more than a 'fairytale dragon' But dragon isn't even used there. Instead it's leviathin:

H3882
לויתן
livyâthân
liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.


You can't prove one way or another that any animal described in the Bible is a dinosaur. Just as you can't prove one way or another that there is a God. It's a matter of belief, and if there is one thing I've learned in life is that my beliefs are unconventional and so I've learned to live with other people's beliefs.

[Rudas Starblaze]

The book of Job is of extremely questionable origin, appearing to have been written by at least two, possibly three different people. All of the names, with the exception of Elihu, are not of Jewish origin, and the style of writing is very similar to Babylonian writings of the same time periods.

That particular passage seems to be describing a crocodile more than a 'fairytale dragon' But dragon isn't even used there. Instead it's leviathin:

H3882
לויתן
livyâthân
liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.


You can't prove one way or another that any animal described in the Bible is a dinosaur. Just as you can't prove one way or another that there is a God. It's a matter of belief, and if there is one thing I've learned in life is that my beliefs are unconventional and so I've learned to live with other people's beliefs.


although i dont agree with you (yet i do as for saying there is no way to prove one way or the other that any animal ect.) like we discussed, its al in how one believes.. i respect you now more then the first time i heard of you. and to everyone else, im sorry, next time i will try to make my posts sound not so forceful, ok.

[Earth Walker]

I think it is false.

I found this book to be very interesting.

"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable
of christ has been for us."
-- Pope Leo X (1513-1521)

Info at: http://www.thebiblefraud.com
joshuabooks@bigpond.com

Make your own judgements. :smoke:

[Aine of the Fae]

I think it is false.

I found this book to be very interesting.

"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable
of christ has been for us."
-- Pope Leo X (1513-1521)

Info at: http://www.thebiblefraud.com
joshuabooks@bigpond.com

Make your own judgements. :smoke:

By that criteria, every religion is false.

[Earth Walker]

[Quote]
By that criteria, every religion is false.

Yes, you are right, every religion is false.
People have trouble remembering and/or
understanding that religion is just that...religion.

First Nations Spirituality is exactly that...Spirituality --- not religion.
The Spirituality of our respective European tribal ancestors was exactly
that...Spirituality --- not religion.

Spirituality is not religion, religion is not Spirituality.

[flar7]

Spirituality is not religion, religion is not Spirituality.
for you. but not necessarily for everyone else.

some view religion as the personification of spirituality, and some view it as the very thing itself.

Lets leave all the "motes" alone and vote.

[Ron]

for you. but not necessarily for everyone else.

some view religion as the personification of spirituality, and some view it as the very thing itself.

Lets leave all the "motes" alone and vote.
I know there's no point in debating with a mod, but hey... I'm to try! lol

Let's start with the defintions of "Religion" and "Spirituality"...

re·li·gion
n.

1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
spir·i·tu·al·i·ty
n. pl. spir·i·tu·al·i·ties

1. The state, quality, manner, or fact of being spiritual.
2. The clergy.
3. Something, such as property or revenue, that belongs to the church or to a cleric. Often used in the plural.

"being spiritual? define "spiritual" s.v.p...
spir·i·tu·al
adj.

1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.


n.

1.
1. A religious folk song of African-American origin.
2. A work composed in imitation of such a song.
2. Religious, spiritual, or ecclesiastical matters. Often used in the plural.

Thus, in essence...
Religion: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe."
Spirituality: "The state, quality, manner, or fact of [...] relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material."

THUS... Religion and Spirituality are quite different, at least according to the "The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company, Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved."... which appears as the first resource for both of these searches, on Dictionary.com...

Which I am going to have to aside with, partly because I am not English and I rely on dictionaries to explain the meanings of English words....

Thank you, and Merry Noswyl Calan Gaeaf.

[flar7]

nice. but not relevant to what I said. People use words as they see fit, and do not always follow nor recognize the definition behind a word. Language is fluid and constantly changing in meaning to such extent that no dictionary printed could ever keep up.


so, while the dictionary will give you one or more meanings, the people are the ones who use the words and apply them. That means, that for you, those words are different and not interchangeable nor much related to the other (perhaps), but for others, they are very similar or perhaps even the same.

[Ron]

Yes, but if I say "flar7 is sexy", but if I mean to use the word "sexy" as one might use the word "ugly".. .does that really mean that me saying "flar7 is sexy" = "flar7 is ugly"... see that just doesn't work for me.

"The purpose of language is not to be understood, but to make it impossible to be understood."

Conclusion: the dictionary is the Gd of the English Language

[Anubis RainHawk]

I also highly agree that Christianity is a true religion. I personally find a question like this truly offensive. How would you feel if someone questioned your religion?

Anubis RainHawk

[Ron]

I also highly agree that Christianity is a true religion. I personally find a question like this truly offensive. How would you feel if someone questioned your religion?

Anubis RainHawk
You can ask my minister at Knox United Church, if I attend every Sunday... and you will see I do. I am a Christian person, out of a Christian family. I was simply interested in the thoughts of others, not questioning any religion.

[Imbrium]

Rant...I'm just going to get this off my chest.

OK, so let me see if I get this.....Is Christianity a true religion? Er...why wouldn't it be? Probably even more true than the Oklahoman church of the blessed toaster.

Honestly, these questions confound me. It's not like I can cough up a DNA sample of Jesus to prove my opinion. And even if I could, I don't think that would make Christianity any more or less viable than any other religion.

I was Christian once. Now you couldn't get me back in Church without an electric cattle prod....but still, I can't imagine why the Christian faith wouldn't be a true religion.....

OK, I'm done ranting now. Please forgive me...I'm having an off day.

[flar7]

Yes, but if I say "flar7 is sexy...
then I would agree and my wife would wonder more about you...

but others would not, and sexy as a word has changed as well.

like bad. I am "bad?" hard to say, the definition is not as concrete as we want. But, its as I said, you choose your meaning, and others will choose theirs. Many choose to associate the two, religion/spirituality, more closely or as the same, while others use the "old school" (another example) form of the words and keep those as their main focal meaning.


also people, the question is quite valid and not offensive if read correctly. Just read it. Its like asking a simple question. Do you believe A = B? If so, cool, if not, so what? It is not worth getting offended over, merely a poll.

[Ron]

then I would agree and my wife would wonder more about you...

but others would not, and sexy as a word has changed as well.

like bad. I am "bad?" hard to say, the definition is not as concrete as we want. But, its as I said, you choose your meaning, and others will choose theirs. Many choose to associate the two, religion/spirituality, more closely or as the same, while others use the "old school" (another example) form of the words and keep those as their main focal meaning.
LOL!! your and your wife would wonder more about me? swingers?! gah! lol *jk*

Yes, I suppose you are correct. The dictionary is my bible, if I may use such a metaphor.

also people, the question is quite valid and not offensive if read correctly. Just read it. Its like asking a simple question. Do you believe A = B? If so, cool, if not, so what? It is not worth getting offended over, merel