Blood and Roots

[dr_zeus440]

ive been giving this a little thought, trying to structure my opinion from what i think is right and what other sources say, and im darn curious to find out what you all think of the subject:

what are your thoughts on the role that a persons lineage plays in..im not sure how to put it, their..aptitude with a particular branch or system of using magic. say for instance, do you think that an indian person would have more success or a better connection (to the divine, to the earth, to magic, to whatever) if they used a system based on pre-hindu (or hell, even hindu) folk beliefs (dravidians is ringin a bell in my head, but its not that important to the question :D), same thing for someone of anglo-saxon descent whos following some form of heathenry etc. also, but on a much lesser note (because i dont want this thread to be flooded with people saying "you cant be born a witch and your bloodlines past experience has nothing to do with your skill" and not say anything about the first part of the question), what are your opinions on the effect of previous practicioners in a persons line on that own persons ability. most of what i would deem to be new age texts seem to be of the opinion that whether or not a persons family has been involved is of no consequence to that persons aptitude, that someone cannot be born a witch etc. and im inclined to agree to the extent of saying that someone isnt "born a witch" for lack of a better term, but i think a persons background, a family's background can have fairly huge amounts to do with the members of that family's ability. ok, im gunna stop blathering, but basically what im asking is your thoughts on

a) a persons ancestry/lineage/descent on the effectiveness of the system they use, and
b) a persons bloodline and the effect this has on their aptitude/ability/skill/whatever you want to call it.

[teishabee]

I think if you can trace your ancestors belief. Then this can only be learning more about yourself and can help you magically.

But what if after all that searching you found them to be christian? Would you practise that faith or say.Oh they wernt pagan I might as well just practise my own faith.

I persoanlly Im divided as to whether to trace my ancestors beliefs or do as I am,Which is a very varied path. I think that honouring your ancestors whatever religion they were may help in your path and be of personal benefit.

[*Rain*]

I don't think it really has anything to do with ability or aptitude. Most people just feel a stronger connection if they have some kind of bloodlink to a particular heritage and this interest in it makes them more positive about it subconsciously.

[mothwench]

i agree, keeping close to your heritage is an important part, but then so is location. i'll take your example of the anglo-saxon heathen: if he/she lives in england then there's little in it for her/him incorporating different practises of another belief system. in the case of someone living elsewhere, for example the states, he/she would do well also honoring the local customs.
:)

[mothwench]

But what if after all that searching you found them to be christian? Would you practise that faith or say.Oh they wernt pagan I might as well just practise my own faith.

i don't worry about this, actually. no-one's going to find any records in their family history where someone openly claims to be pagan, unless we're talking about wiccans with lineage. then it's very doubtful that you can even trace your family history back to the time of conversion, at least in my case. so i just try to reconstruct the pagan religions of my ancestors, basically it's kind of like trying to pretend the conversion never happened, if that makes any more sense.

[semi]

I don't think heritage has any bearing on which system a person ends up using unless the person was raised and bred to be a part of that system. For example, a persons mother was a Witch, her grandmother, great-grandmother, etc. and it's the family tradition.

But I also think that heritage does have a relation to a persons aptitude for a spiritual/magical path. I believe that certain talents and abilities are passed from generation to generation.

[misschief]

well i'm mostly german, but kind of a euro-mutt, even tho american. i really don't know if it has any effect or not because altho small, i have so many different nationalities in me. *shrug* what i do has some native american, some egyptian, but it's mostly a family tradition of witchcraft mixed heavily with hoodoo.

[mothwench]

hehehe euro-mutt. me too. :lol:

[-Ember]

Well, ancestery is important to me and in the trad I follow. Not in the sense of "your ancestors were great witches, therefore you can be one" or "your ancestors were celts, follow a celtic path; their ancestors were greek, they should follow a Hellenistic path." But I do believe in some genetic memory, and that blood does carry more from my ancestors than blue verus brown eyes. Not quite a matter of "the sins of the father are passed to the son", but close. Redeeming the blood is an important concept in my trad.

It also plays a role in initiation... we are adopted into a coven lineage in the trad I follow in part to also adopt that non-genetic descent. To acquire the streangths and bonds of it, as well as responsibility for it.

[ap Dafydd]

Not I think blood or ethnicity.

But I think that if you have a background in the culture of your chosen path, it does make things easier.

I'm on the European side of the water. Suppose for the sake of argument I was drawn to Native American spirituality. If I were just to start doing invocations, celebrating Native feasts, wearing ritual garb and the like, I think I'd be setting myself up to accusations of spiritual imperialism and putting myself at risk of making all sorts of crass errors, just because I don't know what I'm talking about.

Instead, I'd take the time to learn about Native history, to select a particular nation's spiritual path as having resonance with me, to learn about their culture and how they live today, their legends and customs, the ecology of their home area and its wildlife and climate, their music, traditional and modern, how their language is pronounced (and a few words of how to speak it), before even starting to engage with their spiritual traditions.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Ron]

Not I think blood or ethnicity.

But I think that if you have a background in the culture of your chosen path, it does make things easier.

I'm on the European side of the water. Suppose for the sake of argument I was drawn to Native American spirituality. If I were just to start doing invocations, celebrating Native feasts, wearing ritual garb and the like, I think I'd be setting myself up to accusations of spiritual imperialism and putting myself at risk of making all sorts of crass errors, just because I don't know what I'm talking about.

Instead, I'd take the time to learn about Native history, to select a particular nation's spiritual path as having resonance with me, to learn about their culture and how they live today, their legends and customs, the ecology of their home area and its wildlife and climate, their music, traditional and modern, how their language is pronounced (and a few words of how to speak it), before even starting to engage with their spiritual traditions.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred
:collapse: I wanted to say that!!!

[Wodening]

i agree, keeping close to your heritage is an important part, but then so is location. i'll take your example of the anglo-saxon heathen: if he/she lives in england then there's little in it for her/him incorporating different practises of another belief system. in the case of someone living elsewhere, for example the states, he/she would do well also honoring the local customs.
:)


Oh I must strongly disagree! One should never honor the local customs just because that is the thing to do. In the case of some Americans that would be near impossible as the local traditions have been lost, or the Native Americans guard them as their heritage, and consider anyone practicing them to be a cultural thief. It is better then for someone to practice the customs of their local culture. Most of the States for example have a lineage that is shared with England for at least 1200 years. That is to say, the English that came over here had just as much right to their cultural heritage as those that stayed. As more folks came over to the States, they too adopted English culture, or rather English derived culture. Regardless, an unbroken lineage can be established going back to the ancient Heathens we call the Anglo-Saxons for American culture, giving Americans as good a hold on things as the English. This is as opposed to Native American culture which was nearly irradicated, and never truly incoporated into American society. Now, that is not to say I think you are wrong. I agree they would do well in honoring local customs, but it is not always feasible! And often it is just easier to do as the English do!

Welga!
Swain

[Romani Vixen]

I don't think that blood heritage has anything to do with it. What would make more of a difference is if they were actively raised in the culture. Someone raised in Delhi or even L.A. (but a actively practicing Hindu family) would have a better concept of Kali than I would.... and therefore work with them better.

[turtlerain46]

I work with my ancestors alot in rituals, ect. While I am scotch-irish and work mainly with those deities, I don't think practising deities pertaining to your blood line. It's all about how much you believe in what your doing. I read somewhere that ancestors don't necessarily have to be, directly blood related. They can merely be a cultural group you associate with. Ecspecially if you believe in reincarnation. While working my with my ancestors has given me a stronger sense of family, and has given me a stronger sense of self, I also believe strongly in what I do.

[Teresa]

I am a heinz 57 lol.But I do have some Native American in me and my Grandma was full blooded on my Dad's side and she taught me alot of things.

[dr_zeus440]

hmm, cool, good answers so far, and it seems that most people all have slightly or greatly different opinions on the matter. so my thoughts. well, i think that a persons cultural origins dont necessarily dictate what path/system they should take/use, but i do believe that someone of, for example, anglo-saxon descent would have that in their favour if they did choose to use that system. i think its probably got something to do with, as semicivilizedman said, certain traits or abilities (possibly that do not manifest themselves physically but are still a part of a persons genetic makeup...possibly) being passed down through blood. and i think its also got something to do with, in some systems anyway, the followers of that system being (possibly literally) "the children of their gods", with either some divine conception stuff going on, or with their ancestors being elevated to the status of gods. and as to the second thing, i think that a family lines previous history has some small effect on the members of that family, but not to the same extent as the culture and origins of that family. both arent huge influences i wouldnt say, but the first is more influential than the second. anyway, thats just my two cents, completely unsupported, just what i believe :).

[mothwench]

i think you're right, it's largely to do with the genetic makeup, but i also strongly believe in wyrd, which is a norse (i think anglo-saxon) concept. it's kind of hard to describe, to me it's like a collective conscience, and karma that is shared by all generations, reaching from the far past into the future.
if you want to read more about wyrd, have a look here: http://www.thetroth.org/resources/william/frithwyrd.html

another article well worth reading that deals with the issue at hand is troth and heritage: http://www.thetroth.org/resources/ourtroth/race.html

Oh I must strongly disagree! One should never honor the local customs just because that is the thing to do.
why not? note, there's a difference between honor and practice. i'm not talking about doing native american raindances or hanging a dream catcher from your rearview mirror. what i mean is that it's important not to be ignorant of their customs, and i would even go so far as to include any local spirits when i honor the landwights that are local to where i come from (for example, at the coming winternights' blot). :ghostie:

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

I definitely think that your ancestery does have some sort of impact. I'm not necessarily saying that means one should follow the path their ancestors did, just that it is going to impact you. Who your ancestors from your grandparents all the way on back to the origins of your family are going to affect you in some way, even in ways that you don't notice. There are certain beliefs, traditions, and thought patterns in my family that come down to me from the past and they affect how I think and react to certain situations. And in one particular case have a direct impact on my spiritual choices. Not because my path is that of my ancestors, but because of the way it influenced the way they thought.

For me to follow for example a Roman or Greek spiritual path would be difficult because the way I was raised and they way my ancestors raised and influenced their descendents wouldn't mesh well with those paths. I was raised very much aware of and a part of my Scots-Irish and Native ancestry, and German to a lesser extent. As a result, that greatly impacts my view of the world and how I look at life. So in that way, yes, my ancestry has a very strong impact on who I am spiritually and the choices I made.

[kaosxmage]

I have various ancestory, a mix of german, irish, swedish, and lakota sioux, none of which I believe is important to magic or spirituality. I don't think of the gods or magic as imprisoned by the culture of their creation. I like to think, believe, and act globally. I am human as were my ancestors (I hope ...still a question about grandpa) and the gods and magic are a part of our life, important to and seemingly fond of humans. I don't particularly care to break it down any more than that for myself.

Point and moral of muh story: No, I don't think lineage is important to anything concerning spirituality. If it were, where would you stop tracing your beliefs back? With a specific culture, or even further to a time when we were scared to come out of the caves?

--Kaos