Childbirth Classes

[Kalika]

For those of you with children, or having children...

Did you take childbirth/parenting classes while you (or your partner) were pregnant?

What did you think?

What is your opinion on new/expecting mothers and fathers taking or not taking the class?


If you didn't take one, do you wish that you had taken them?

[Kahlan]

I never took childbirthing classes because they were only on the days I worked. And I never took paretning classes. I look at it this way, having babies and rasing them is a natural thing. The moment I had a daughter (a year ago on the 12th of oct) my natural mothering instincts took over.

[blithespirit]

I never took any childbirth classes. I just read up as much as I could, and talked to others for advice. I don't regret it, because my instinct took over anyway!

No parenting classes either, except for one on infant CPR. I also took a breastfeeding class with my first, and it was quite handy.

[misschief]

i didn't take any and they all came out just fine.

[Kalika]

:)

I don't think my husband and I will be taking any either... its unfortunate, but I just don't feel that we have the time right now, and our schedules are too conflicting. Plus... I think that like all of you have said, instinct will take over. Both he and I have been around ALOT of children (my sister has 3, and I also have a much younger brother, one of his sisters has 5 children, and the other has 2) so I hope that somewhere along the way, everything we've learned has stuck with us!

Thanks everyone!

[fahawk]

We took the Bradley Childbirth class with our first preg. While it was o.k. ...
I really think I was better prepared/ learned more from the books I read written by women who wrote about their own births,, how they felt, what they did...and from talking to my midwife..her sharing of stories..
when I went back after the birth, (cause I had the baby before the classes were through,) she asked, what part of this class helped you the most with your birth?..and my mouth just hung open..I just couldnt think..
it is one of those things you just have to experience :)
so reading birthing stories for me, was my big help. :)

[Tzhebee]

With my first child I took a lamaze class...and it was a complete waste of my time.

I also took a lactation class. Which taught about nursing, options, pumping, etc. That was a great class.

I didn't bother with any classes the second time around.

As far as others' taking classes. I would suggest it if they are nervous or scared. The classes (if nothing else) let you know that you are not alone.

[zehava]

we went with our first.

i didn't use any of the techniques they told me about. and it really just freaked me out and made me MORE nervous about the birth itself. and i think it served to freak out the ex-dh too. lol.

i did meet a woman in the class that i still keep in touch with though. and it was a smaller town at the time... so many of the women in that class were also in the hospital when i had my daughter... it was like a reunion ;) knowing many of the people in the ward made the hospital visit easier for me.

my advice would be to just read a book about about giving birth (for info on the stages of labour, what's really going on 'down there', etc) and follow your instincts when labour starts. women haven't been giving birth for thousands of years without some labour instincts passing from one generation to another, kwim?

-z

[Ceres]

i learned more from attending la leche league meetings than from the childbirth classes. they have tons of books to loan on birth and parenting as well as breastfeeding. la leche league meetings are FREE....tho if u decide to keep coming u will be expected to buy a membership which is about 30-40 bucks for a year and includes the magazine that has lots of parenting stuff in it. they usually encourage mothers to start attending in their last trimester, to prepare for the birth.
the set up of meetings is designed for participation too, so u get to know other mothers. that IS the only draw back - they are only for mothers - unless u live in a large city that has a regular couples meeting.
www.lalecheleague.org

[Rowan MoonDragon]

we took lamaze and I"m glad I did. I had both of my girls naturally and I actually use lamaze breathing to this day when I'm in pain. _twohorns_

[soilsigh aingeal]

A few people had told me that the classes told me that they learned good breathing techniques but as soon as contractions got hard and close those techniques went out the window. So I didn't even bother with it. My labors were so hard I don't think I would have used any of it anyway. I didn't take any parenting classes either but, as soon as I left that hospital, any experience I'd previously had with children few out the window. I started crying when we were getting ready to leave and I had to have my mom dress my daughter because I thought I was going to break her!

[Lunacie]

They didn't have childbirth classes in our town when I was pregnant 31 years ago. When my daughter was having her first baby I paid for all of us to go to a Lamaze class and it was worth it. Her husband and I were both labor coaches. It turned out she couldn't use the techniques during labor because her blood pressure was so high she had to lay on her left side without being able to take a bath or walk or use the bouncy ball or anything. But I was so glad to finally learn that a lot of woman have "camel-back contractions" during labor, which I had experienced with no idea at the time of what was going on. (Two or more contractions in a row before a breathing break. ICK). It was just good to know what to expect. Having a baby in a hospital isn't all that "natural" an experience.

[Autumn]

I took a birthing class and found it "ok" but there was a too wide variety of people there and the teacher had to teach to the lowest common denomenator...too elementary for me just out of nursing school. I felt and still do, that the classes should have been divided up into people who had and had not had college, or something...because my husband already knew most of the content when it came to anatomy and physiology of birth,(he read about it) my friend and I had just finished nursing school(we thought we were real hot potatoes*rueful laugh*) and my friend's dh was a pharmacist.

I also kinda felt that the birthing class was more an orientation to how that particular hospital did things...it should have been a birthing class and an orientation as a seperate thing.


I didn't take a parenting class I did take a breastfeeding class, but would have been better off at La Leche League.

[Tarbh Nathroch]

My wife, and I naturally, went to a Hypnobirthing(sp?) class instead of the regular birthing class. It worked amazingly well for her. The Hospital staff was blown away. No drugs no pain, there was discomfort though, she did have a baby. She was the star of the ward she and the baby were doing so great right after the birth. Some of the poor women I saw there could barely walk and looked like a gorilla beat the heck outa them and their poor little babies. We both highly recommend Hypnobirthing.

[Ceres]

hypnobirthing sounds really fascinating - did u participate in the classes or is it something she did to herself? i have long felt that women have difficult birthing experiences in part because they expect to. when we are surrounded by messages that birth is excruciating and that u can expect to be incapacitated by it, its no wonder it lives up to our expectations. professional attendents, meaning to help, can inadvertantly reinforce this idea, in part because we often go to hospitals where only the sickest ppl go, in order to have babies. expectant mothers (everyone!) need to hear more stories like your wife's to normalize birth.

[Kalika]

I hadn't heard anyone mention hypnobirthing before, and I agree, it does sound very interesting!! I'll definitely have to check into that.

Thanks for the input everyone! :)

[FaerieGothMommy]

I didn't take any, and i don't regret not taking any either. To be quite honest, i don't think any classes can prepare you for child birth, i think reading books is just as good. But i think if your in extreme pain, you don't really bother to remember what you learnt in childbirth classes! :lol: well, i wouldn't have anyway!

[FaerieGothMommy]

My wife, and I naturally, went to a Hypnobirthing(sp?) class instead of the regular birthing class. It worked amazingly well for her. The Hospital staff was blown away. No drugs no pain, there was discomfort though, she did have a baby. She was the star of the ward she and the baby were doing so great right after the birth. Some of the poor women I saw there could barely walk and looked like a gorilla beat the heck outa them and their poor little babies. We both highly recommend Hypnobirthing.

If only i'd have known about that BEFORE hand!! I was one of those women looking like i'd been beaten and struggling to walk :lol:

[DebLipp]

I took Bradley classes. Taking no classes, or taking a hospital-sponsored Lamaze or birthing class just makes you a victim of whatever the hospital's policy is. The hospital wants "well-behaved" patients not empowered mothers making their own decisions. The only way to take charge of your own birth experience and not be bamboozled by a patriarchal system is to educate yourself.

[Lunacie]

I didn't take any, and i don't regret not taking any either. To be quite honest, i don't think any classes can prepare you for child birth, i think reading books is just as good. But i think if your in extreme pain, you don't really bother to remember what you learnt in childbirth classes! :lol: well, i wouldn't have anyway!

I read tons of things before I gave birth, and there were lots of things that I didn't expect and didn't understand. Many of these were covered in Lamaze class and I was really glad to finally understand, even so many years afterwards. Also, because I had been though it myself and had taken the class with my daughter and son-in-law, I was able to answer some of the things they were wondering about during the experience and afterwards. Nothing can FULLY prepare you for an experience like childbirth, but I think it helps to learn as much as we can to help us make the best choice for ourselves, and to keep the level of anxiety as low as possible during what usually becomes a rather anxious event. I think it's a great idea to have a childbirth coach with you who has actually given birth herself and isn't afraid to ask the nurses and doctor questions.

[Kalika]

So, that brings up another question....

Who was your "coach"? My husband is going to be there with me... and I have given the ok for either my mom or my sister (both have children - :lol: obviously!!)...

[Autumn]

I agree with Deb completely.

However those who live in rural areas often cannot find any sort of birthing classes that are not connected to the facility in which they give birth.

Heck most women up here can shop OBs but the hospital that this doc delivers at is part of the package. you can't choose them as two separate choices.

I would like to see hospitals offer "orientation" classes...what the policies are, how they affect your care and that way you can make an intelligent choice and also be able to gear what you write in a birth plan to the policies of the place you expect to birth at.

If I have another baby I will do hypnobirthing...it sounds so cool!

[FlyingBear]

We also did Hypnobirthing and it helped me alot. Didn't do much for DH, but then I suppose if he had actually done the homework and all. _whistle_ In our class we watched videos of women giving birth and they were calm, centered and really relaxed. Media should show more of *those* pictures as opposed to women screaming their heads off. Sets up the mentality that all labour is a trip thru hell.

http://www.hypnobirthing.com/

If I was to have another baby, I would try Birthing from Within. I read the book during my pregnancy and it so appealed to the creatative side of me.

http://www.birthingfromwithin.com/

Hope these links help!

Also, check out these stories!

http://www.thelaboroflove.com/birthstories/index.shtml

I laughed, I cried, they're very moving.


:tub:

[Kalika]

I agree with Deb completely.

However those who live in rural areas often cannot find any sort of birthing classes that are not connected to the facility in which they give birth.

Heck most women up here can shop OBs but the hospital that this doc delivers at is part of the package. you can't choose them as two separate choices.

I would like to see hospitals offer "orientation" classes...what the policies are, how they affect your care and that way you can make an intelligent choice and also be able to gear what you write in a birth plan to the policies of the place you expect to birth at.

If I have another baby I will do hypnobirthing...it sounds so cool!

The hospital that I will be going to offers an orientation... they take you around to see where you'll be having the baby, go over what to expect when you come in, show you what's available as far as birthing options, the type of formula they use, and get you registered....

[Kalika]

We also did Hypnobirthing and it helped me alot. Didn't do much for DH, but then I suppose if he had actually done the homework and all. _whistle_ In our class we watched videos of women giving birth and they were calm, centered and really relaxed. Media should show more of *those* pictures as opposed to women screaming their heads off. Sets up the mentality that all labour is a trip thru hell.

http://www.hypnobirthing.com/

If I was to have another baby, I would try Birthing from Within. I read the book during my pregnancy and it so appealed to the creatative side of me.

http://www.birthingfromwithin.com/

Hope these links help!

Also, check out these stories!

http://www.thelaboroflove.com/birthstories/index.shtml

I laughed, I cried, they're very moving.


:tub:

Thanks! :)

[Tarbh Nathroch]

hypnobirthing sounds really fascinating - did u participate in the classes or is it something she did to herself? i have long felt that women have difficult birthing experiences in part because they expect to. when we are surrounded by messages that birth is excruciating and that u can expect to be incapacitated by it, its no wonder it lives up to our expectations. professional attendents, meaning to help, can inadvertantly reinforce this idea, in part because we often go to hospitals where only the sickest ppl go, in order to have babies. expectant mothers (everyone!) need to hear more stories like your wife's to normalize birth.
Oh yes the dad or partner is very much involved. You are also right in that a lot of the class is dedicated to deprogramming you from all the negative views on birth that we get from the world in TV, other moms trying to out story each other and so on. It is very much about changing your thinking. Part of my job was to change the staffs’ attitude as well. Telling them how it's gonna be. That constantly asking about pain levels and pushing meds will not be acceptable and that it's the mom and dad who are in control of this birth. The staff we had was fantastic they were very co-operative and very much wanted to be a part of this style of birth that they were for the most part unfamiliar with. I'm not sure about other hypnobirthing classes but ours did do a bit of Christian bashing. Since a lot of the negativity of birth came from the way the bible was translated and the churches attitude on birth for the last 600 years.

[Ceres]

there are biblically based natural birth groups...some are along the same lines as the rest of the "behave yourself and do what the doctor says" stuff, but some of it is really helpful. there is even a biblically based unassisted birth movement that a friend of mine was right into. they had a newsletter called "the new nativity"
i can see why they felt the need to oppose such ideas, but i really think religion had less to do with the mess birth is in in north america than the medical establishment did.

[Lunacie]

I was a church member for many years, and I can testify that a lot of those folks do believe that childbirth *should* be painful for the mother. It's the legacy of Eve's disobedience. ICK.

[KimberSly]

I think judging by my tendancies to get riled up and scream insanely in situations HALF akin to labour, we're going to be taking /some/ sort of class.

Not to mention, it just sounds like fun :D

[Mysticism Deity]

I didnt want to take them. I wanted to just go with the flow. well I decided to take them anyways. of course it was a waste of my time since I wasnt able to move around. I had to have a epidural. but I did find the breathing excerises to come in handy. people kept saying I wouldnt remember them but I DID!!! the best breathing excerise I love is the "blowing out the candles" one.

I had twins so thats why I had to haev a epid. I dont think i'll take the class again cus I still remember everything from it.

[Ceres]

a lot of women (myself included) find whent he hospital staff reminds u to use your breathing, its really just a convenient way to shut u up. it makes u a good compliant patient. not that i think its best to be out of control screaming your head off, but there is merit to being inside your body to work with it, rather than focusing on someplace outside your body.
kimber: i am the biggest wimp around....i yowl at getting my ears cleaned at the doctor lol, but i had my babies at home without drugs, not because i am a hero, but because childbirth pain isnt what we are led to believe. read childbirth without fear by grantly dick read. its old, but its a classic.
then i recommend doing your own research about the side effects of drugs and hospital procedures. decisions are made during labout and birth that can affect your body for the rest of your life - u wanna be able to make an informed decision. i am speaking from experience.....there a whole lot of women walking around with damaged nether regions that will never be the same because they were good, compliant patients.

[fahawk]

I think even if you dont do childbirth classes, it is good to read, or get knowledge somehow, just so you know "what" is going on, what options there, are..different position that may be more comfortable or helpful for the birth..so many things.. just knowing them..whether you end up using them or not..gives you a step up- so you arent just waiting for someone to say do this or dont do it- you will have an idea..

[HorseCrow]

a lot of women (myself included) find whent he hospital staff reminds u to use your breathing, its really just a convenient way to shut u up. it makes u a good compliant patient

I promise you, that when midwives, hospital staff etc tell the woman to use her breathing, it is in no way an excuse to get her to be quiet or be a compliant patient. Being able to work with your breathing eases labour, as deep breathing relaxes muscles and lack of oxygen makes the pain worse. A woman who breathes too shallow or quickly can get lightheaded and even pass out, not to mention that she tires faster.
Whether a woman chooses to attend birth classes is up to herself. I would recommend it, at least for first-time moms. Even if you end up not using the tecniques, it does give you a basic understanding of what is happening- it will give a sense of control. Knowing what is happening and feeling as much in control as possible, lessens fear, which lessens pain. Fear Tension Pain Cycle, as termed by Grantly E. Dick.

[Ceres]

horse crow, from what i have seen, u must be a marvelous birth attendent. you appear to be one of those ppl who love the act of birth anough to help a woman make the most of it. i wish i had talked to you before i had my first baby!
but i think its too general to claim all birth attendents are sympathetic to the intensity of the birth experience for a woman, especially the first time. l
lets face it - when women are drugged for the pain, the job of her attendents is much easier. many a woman has had the "just do your breathing" routine thrown at them when they arent being quiet and compliant. it makes it an easy way to handle it when a woman does the out of the oridinary and births without drugs. here the majority end up using drugs for pain, tho more start out not planning to. why are they not able to do what they set out to do and birth without drugs? i think its because when the breathing fails and they have no other support, they feel its their only option.
i wholeheartedly agree that a woman should be informed of the process before she gives birth and i even agree its a good idea to look for alternatives to deal with the intensity of the experience, but i dont think the best way to do this is by focusing outside your body and i do think many birth attendents use the breathing techniques to manipulate their pateints, particularly in a hospital setting where its expected that women will use drugs for pain relief.

[HorseCrow]

If you ever decide to have another babe- give me a call :)

its too general to claim all birth attendents are sympathetic to the intensity of the birth experience for a woman

I could say the same, only other way round- that I feel it is too general to say that all birth attendants only say "use your breathing" to shut the woman up. I do not know if it is hard to believe, but there really are midwives etc out there who are sympathetic.

i dont think the best way to do this is by focusing outside your body

When I (and all the midwives I know) help a woman to focus on her breathing, it is indeed to let her "go inside"- quite contrary to what I hear you say, I find that breathing techniques serve as a kind of meditation, not a diversion to matters outside the body.

Again, there must be centuries of difference between where I am and the US, if what you tell me goes for the general way of things in US. Where I am, drugs is a last resort. Birth classes, breathing, massage, acupuncture, acupressure, warm towels, mobilisation and other natural forms of pain-relief are available easily, but the heavy stuff is only brought in when there is proper indication. Danish midwives are considered to be the best in the world, but even so, I am shocked to hear your accounts of birth in the US, it seems so.... scarry, and quite different from what I have heard from the US midwives that I correspond with.

[Ceres]

no more babies for me, lol, after the damage done to my perineum by an overzealous doctor with forceps with my first, i am lucky not to be wearing diapers as it is.
lamaze method teaches the mother to focus on an object with their eyes while doing the breathing exercises in order to focus outside her body rather than dwelling where the pain is. the way i was taught before my first was surely that my body was the last place i wanted to be in. and u see where the breathing technique got me with my first. i was a good compliant patient and now i have permanent damage to my body as a direct result.
i didnt say all birth attendents are unsympathetic to the experience, just some, which i maintain is true.
i agree, european midwives are far better trained than our own. i am not american, but from my research, the state of midwifery is even MORE medicalized in the states than here in canada. but even if it were as good here as it is there, midwives dont attend even half the births here or in the usa. u might enjoy a book called "the american way of birth" by jessica mitford

[DebLipp]

When I (and all the midwives I know) help a woman to focus on her breathing, it is indeed to let her "go inside"- quite contrary to what I hear you say, I find that breathing techniques serve as a kind of meditation, not a diversion to matters outside the body.


Different breathing techniques have different goals. It is more typical of Lamaze to 'go outside,' and more typical of Bradley to 'go inside,' and of course nowadays, many techniques aren't one of these two major schools, but combine the teacher's experience with both and more.

[HorseCrow]

Yes, yes- I was not talking Lamaze, I know that's an outside the body technique.

Radikalwomyn, I'm so sorry that you had such a bad experience, I would gladly punch that forceps-doctor.

I believe the absence of midwives is very much a part of the problem in the US. Here, there is always a midwife present and the mere thought of a birth without a midwife, is almost impossible to comprehend. I'm convinced this absence can be seen on the frequency of f.ex. c-sections and other medical interventions. I believe c-sec frequensy is around 25% in the US and climbing, where as it is about or less than 10% here (regional differences, 6% - 13 %).

How about doulas in the US- are they present at all births? I believe the woman has to pay for a doula herself, right?

Here we do not really have doulas- because the midwife is always present. But also, health services are free, so even though a normal, vaginal birth without complicatins costs about $ 2.000 and a c-sec costs $ 7.000, she does not have to pay a cent.

[Kalika]

Yes, yes- I was not talking Lamaze, I know that's an outside the body technique.

Radikalwomyn, I'm so sorry that you had such a bad experience, I would gladly punch that forceps-doctor.

I believe the absence of midwives is very much a part of the problem in the US. Here, there is always a midwife present and the mere thought of a birth without a midwife, is almost impossible to comprehend. I'm convinced this absence can be seen on the frequency of f.ex. c-sections and other medical interventions. I believe c-sec frequensy is around 25% in the US and climbing, where as it is about or less than 10% here (regional differences, 6% - 13 %).

How about doulas in the US- are they present at all births? I believe the woman has to pay for a doula herself, right?

Here we do not really have doulas- because the midwife is always present. But also, health services are free, so even though a normal, vaginal birth without complicatins costs about $ 2.000 and a c-sec costs $ 7.000, she does not have to pay a cent.


That's right... here in the US a woman has to pay for a doula herself... and no, they are not present at all births. I believe if you want one present, you have to select and "interview" one yourself.

If you want a midwife present, you either have to go to a hospital that provides their services (I believe there is 1 here in Denver....), or you have to find one and request that she be present at the hospital of your choosing.

[Amethyst Rose]

At the hospital where I gave birth, one of the women that I thought was a nurse was actually a midwife. Doulas however, were really expensive... I looked into getting one.
Anyway, my birth experience was an extremely good one. I was at a hospital that provided birth classes, which I took. The breathing technique was very helpful for me, and the nurses didn't have to tell me once to remember my breathing -- my husband reminded me a couple of times. That hospital also has the lowest occurance of c-section and epidural use in the province, which was very reassuring.
....I've lost my train of thought, and can't remember my purpose of posting...sorry, I"m sick. :)

[Ceres]

pretty much what happens in north america at a birth is a woman works thru her pregnancy with a doctor. she sees him or her monthly until the last month and then sees him or her weekly. if the doctor is not on vacation and nothing comes up, he or she will be present at the birth. if not, well that doctor might have a replacemnt u know or u might get whomever is on duty at the hospital. it doesnt matter anyway because u wont see much of the doctor at your labour anyway. the doctor may come into check u at first and if u dont progress according to schedule, the doctor may be called into check u and make decisions, but for the greater part of the experience, women are cared for by obstetrical nurses. u dont choose who your obsterical nurses are going to be and i dont know anyone who met the nurses prior to her labour starting. sometimes u luck out and they are great, but often they prefer women to take drugs for the pain because it makes things more predictable and run more smoothly.
certainly, there are options here and they are growing in popularity, but unfortunately many women are met with disapproval by obstetrical nurses when they choose to bring in another professional or try to implement a birth plan.
there are efforts made here by some ppl involved with birth to make it more like your system, horsecrow; ppl who truly care about birth and mothers. they have made changes, but it seems to me the changes are very slow and often we are led to believe changes are being made when in fact we are just being humoured.
in ontario, midwives were granted equal billing with doctors for attending home births thru the provincial health care plan. however, they had to become more medicalized to get that status and many ppl feel other than having the option of a home birth, they arent much better off. i had a doctor assisted homebirth with my second and i chose him, even tho his bedside manner was terrible, because he had trained in holland and he knew his stuff. the third birth was attended by provincially funded midwives and was my best birth. they were helpful during my labour, knowledgable in ways to reduce pain and they backed off and left my husband and i alone when we requested it.
it unfortunate most women, particularly poor women dont have access to the information about birth alternatives until after they have had a difficult experience. they are told if they have questions to ask their doctor, and unfortunately, their doctor wont likely tell them about the options that will make their birth easier because it makes his/her job harder.

[Amethyst Rose]

I don't know, but to me it sounds like you think all hospital births are horrible, and the nurses don't care about the mothers, and just give them drugs and tell them to breat to shut them up.

I've only had one expereince, but it was incredible. I also am inclined to respect the nurses and doctors out there and give them the benifit of the doubt that they are doing their jobs to the best of their ability and are sympathetic to the pain of the mother.

HorseCrow, please don't be thinking that birth experiences in North America are horrible and brutal and nurses are uncaring and drug pushers, because that's just not true.

[mara]

I took the classes with my ex husband with our first child..it was a wonderful time. I felt really supported and It gave my ex husband a way to feel like he was a part of the pregnancy. I think that childbirth classes do a lot of good.

[HorseCrow]

Here in Denmark, the pregnant woman has an average of 3 visits with her doctor and 7 visits with her midwife (always the same midwife unless the woman requests another). The midwife is the central person during the womans pregnancy and all efforts are made to ensure that this is also the midwife she has present at her birth. At the birth it is only the midwife and sometimes an assistant, that is present, doctors only ever attend a birth if there are complications. Medical/invasive procedures are only used if absolutely called for- otherwise only natural, non-invasive, non-medicinal pain relief measures are used. A lot of focus is put on the fact that the midwife is not to leave the room (unless of course she needs the loo) and she is to be very attuned to the mental needs of the woman, as well as the physical. These are the goals, but there are of course, cases where it is not possible due to unforseen events.

In Denmark, all medical services are free (as is all education etc).

[Kalika]

pretty much what happens in north america at a birth is a woman works thru her pregnancy with a doctor. she sees him or her monthly until the last month and then sees him or her weekly. if the doctor is not on vacation and nothing comes up, he or she will be present at the birth. if not, well that doctor might have a replacemnt u know or u might get whomever is on duty at the hospital. it doesnt matter anyway because u wont see much of the doctor at your labour anyway. the doctor may come into check u at first and if u dont progress according to schedule, the doctor may be called into check u and make decisions, but for the greater part of the experience, women are cared for by obstetrical nurses. u dont choose who your obsterical nurses are going to be and i dont know anyone who met the nurses prior to her labour starting. sometimes u luck out and they are great, but often they prefer women to take drugs for the pain because it makes things more predictable and run more smoothly.
certainly, there are options here and they are growing in popularity, but unfortunately many women are met with disapproval by obstetrical nurses when they choose to bring in another professional or try to implement a birth plan.
there are efforts made here by some ppl involved with birth to make it more like your system, horsecrow; ppl who truly care about birth and mothers. they have made changes, but it seems to me the changes are very slow and often we are led to believe changes are being made when in fact we are just being humoured.
in ontario, midwives were granted equal billing with doctors for attending home births thru the provincial health care plan. however, they had to become more medicalized to get that status and many ppl feel other than having the option of a home birth, they arent much better off. i had a doctor assisted homebirth with my second and i chose him, even tho his bedside manner was terrible, because he had trained in holland and he knew his stuff. the third birth was attended by provincially funded midwives and was my best birth. they were helpful during my labour, knowledgable in ways to reduce pain and they backed off and left my husband and i alone when we requested it.
it unfortunate most women, particularly poor women dont have access to the information about birth alternatives until after they have had a difficult experience. they are told if they have questions to ask their doctor, and unfortunately, their doctor wont likely tell them about the options that will make their birth easier because it makes his/her job harder.

Actually... the hospital that I will be going to arranges for you to meet the nurses beforehand. And, there are 4 doctors that I will be meeting with, one of which will be present at the birth (whichever one is on call), and we will have met the nurses as well. They have it set up this way so that there are no "suprise" doctors or nurses, which can make the mother/father uncomfortable. I know most hospitals probably don't do it this way... but I kinda like that they are making the effort to make the experience easier for us.

*shrug*

Granted... this is my first one... but it seems like at least these doctors are making an effort at making the experience as smooth as possible. :p

[Kalika]

In Denmark, all medical services are free (as is all education etc).


Now, THAT would be nice!!! :D

[HorseCrow]

Now, THAT would be nice!!! :D

It is very nice, and VERY high standard, but bear in mind, we pay 60% tax.

[Kalika]

It is very nice, and VERY high standard, but bear in mind, we pay 60% tax.


Ummm... yikes!!!

[HorseCrow]

It's worth it.

Sorry, I got us off topic :bigredblu

[Ceres]

i am glad so many women are reporting good birth experiences with their doctors in north america - i sincerely hope it means change is afoot. however, having been involved in the birth community for 12 years has made me jaundiced to any improvements they are claiming because the changes were supposed to have been coming since about the mid seveties! and i certainly didnt see anything significant by the time i had my first in 93.
a lot of ppl are happy with their birth experiences because they dont realize how much better the alternative can be. some ppl even call any birth that isnt a c/section a natural birth! their measure of contentment is compared to the truly horrible and so they are happy with what they got. dont beleive me? america ranks 25th in infant mortality in the world! 25th! and yet you are supposed to have the very best medical care available. canada isnt much better. north american c/section rates are at least double what denmark's is and there is plenty of birth injuries in both the mother and baby that could have been avoided by using less invasive interventions. just because the mother and infant live doesnt mean they arent injured, in many cases with permanent debilitating conditions! and these risks arent because birth in general is dangerous, they are because the births are mismanaged.
am i angry and skeptical of promises of better care? you betcha! women deserve the best care possible and when horsecrow and other midwives can tell me about the wonderful statistics of healthier babies and mothers available where they practice i want that for north american women too. i think anyone would want better birth outcomes where possible and question what prevents us from having them.
do these professional do their jobs to the best of their ability? i guess that would vary, like any other occupation. certianly there are those who, like horsecrow genuinely care, but obviously we need more change here than we have already seen, or our statistics would be comparable to denmark and other countires who fare better. i myself said in a previous post that i had two births with good caring attendents, both of whom do hospital births as well as home births. it IS possible to have a good experience in canada inthe united states, its just that for various reasons too many women dont.

[Lunacie]

There was a world of difference between the labor nurse who was with my daughter when her first child was born and the nurse who was with her when her second child was born. She was very tense during the first labor because her blood pressure was very high and she wasn't allowed to move around at all, she had to lie still on her left side until it was time to start pushing.

The doctor kept increasing the size of the episiostomy and they baby still wasn't coming out. I saw her head 'crown' about 5 times before the doctor tried using a suction device. Fortunately there wasn't room to get forceps in but she still ended up with scar tissue from the forceps and from treatment for cervical cancer when the baby was about 6 months old.

During her second labor she had a wonderful labor nurse who understood about the scar tissue and the need to go slow and stretch the tissue very gently. I won't say there wasn't any pain, but it went much quicker. When it was time to actually push she only had to push about half as long before the baby practically popped out.

[DebLipp]

I don't know, but to me it sounds like you think all hospital births are horrible, and the nurses don't care about the mothers, and just give them drugs and tell them to breat to shut them up.

I've only had one expereince, but it was incredible. I also am inclined to respect the nurses and doctors out there and give them the benifit of the doubt that they are doing their jobs to the best of their ability and are sympathetic to the pain of the mother.

HorseCrow, please don't be thinking that birth experiences in North America are horrible and brutal and nurses are uncaring and drug pushers, because that's just not true.

You have a good point, there's a great deal of variety, but RadicalWomyn's point should not be pushed aside, and her experience should not be treated as exceptional.

The c-section rate in North America is 25-35%. That is ENORMOUS and it is unnecessary. Much of the problem is rooted in hospital policies, such as NPO immediately upon arrival, no movement with a FHM on, routine FHM use, routine pitocin on failure to progress, frequent internal exams, and mandatory c-section after 12 hours PROM.

Women naturally become exhausted when NPO and then are pushed into higher levels of medical intervention. Nurses in the US are overworked; hospitals are increasingly understaffed and nurses carry higher caseloads, so they are brief and sometimes perfuntory with laboring mothers. I have heard of numerous inappropriate things said to laboring mothers such as "You might as well take the pain killers, honey, you won't be able to stand it."

Most women in the US have never even heard of a doula. Prenatal care is something only the insured can afford. Our infant mortality rate is appalling for an industrialized nation. These are facts.

Of course there are positive experiences and wonderful nurses. My dear friend just got a job as a L&D nurse and I'm sure she'll be every laboring mother's dream come true. But that section rate is all you need to know in order to understand that something is very wrong with the American way of birth.

Women who don't educate themselves, and who don't look at the radical material, the anti-hospital material (even if they choose a hospital) are doing themselves a huge disservice. It's the only way to see the whole picture and become truly educated.

[Ben Trismegistus]

We had a great experience start to finish. My wife and I took classes together at NYU Medical Center (where she eventually gave birth), and it made us feel really empowered and comfortable. First off, it gave us a more clear idea of exactly what to expect throughout the entire birthing process. Additionally, we were able to discuss things like all the pros and cons of the various drugs, forceps, vacuums, etc., so that when faced with the stress of the actual event, we would be able to make an informed decision. Basically, after the classes, we felt like we knew what all of our options were, and we had the knowledge to be able to understand what was going on every step of the way.

With that information, my wife was able to give birth within 3 hours of getting to the hospital, with no drugs whatsoever. We heard tons of stories about epidurals prolonging labor, because the mother is unable to feel where the baby is and when to push. Because my wife was able to control the pain (to a certain extent) through breathing and meditation, she was in control of her labor the entire time. I was her only coach, and I think we made a really great team.

And the kid will be 18 months tomorrow - holy crap!

[Kalika]

Thanks for sharing Ben! :) And happy half-birthday to the little one!!

[Ceres]

aw ben, i wish my first had been like that! i sure hope what happened with your birth is the wave of the future. i hear so many bad stories still tho.....anyway, congrats :D

[MoonDust]

might I suggest....
not only taking a birthing class (because I do think they help. Also, if you haven't decided on the birthing technique you'll be using look into what might be best for you), but also concidering taking on (if you have the time) a few child development classes. I think it's really cool when you can understand what the different developmental stages of your child will be and what to expect and look forward to.

[MorningDove030202]

I took a class because I wanted to know what to expect, I don't think any of the exercises breathing and whatnot realy helped any..... But it did get me informed so that I had a birth plan.

Dove

[BethieRose]

I took classes with my first two but not with my last. My last was my best birth. Between my second and third births, I did a lot of research. I chose not to take the classes because the Lamaze class my hospital offered had not helped me in the past, and the Bradley class was an hour away at best, and was not practical. Books I read and would reccomend include:

Birthing from Within by Pam England
The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth by Henci Goer and Rhonda Wheeler
Ina May's Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin
The Birth Book by William and Martha Sears

There was one other major difference between my first two births and the last. I hired a doula for my last. I found a doula who was completing DONA (Doulas of North America) certification and would work virtually for free, for the experience. This made having a doula VERY affordable. We did pay her gas expenses as we were an hour away from her. I would pay ten times more for a doula now if I were to have another baby. She was so worth it. Her knowledge and coaching took some of the weight off of my dh's shoulders, and let him be my loving partner rather than my coach. He was able to be there for me emotionally without worrying about the technical stuff like how to breathe.

Like I said, my third birth was my easiest in terms of effort and recovery. Literally, in pictures after the birth, I was sitting crosslegged on the hospital bed. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that I did NOT sit that way for many weeks after my other two births!

Best of luck with the birth of your child!

[Kalika]

Thanks for your input everyone. You've given me a lot to think about! :)

[Amethyst Rose]

You have a good point, there's a great deal of variety, but RadicalWomyn's point should not be pushed aside, and her experience should not be treated as exceptional.



Sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound like that's what I was doing. I only meant to say that there are a lot of positive birth expereinces and they shouldn't be forgotten either.
I think I was very lucky as I was in a very progressive hospital that tried as hard as possible to stay away from drugs, c-sections and episiotomies. They didn't even have a nursery, so babies co-slept with moms and breastfeeding was strongly encouraged, (had to sign a waiver if you wanted to feed baby from a bottle).
I guess I was under the impression that that's the way the majority of hospitals did things, these days.

[Ceres]

i wish u were right amethyst rose! that sounds like a great place to give birth. i love the co sleeping part - i was yelled at in the hospital for wanting to have my baby sleep with me. they said it was irresponsible to put my baby at risk just so i could get a better nights sleep.

[HorseCrow]

i was yelled at in the hospital for wanting to have my baby sleep with me. they said it was irresponsible to put my baby at risk just so i could get a better nights sleep.

:eek:

[Kalika]

That's ridiculous!!!

GRR. It sounds like you had some really bad experiences with hospitals in general. That's very unfortunate! :hugz: