Pagan a religion?

[Athena-Nadine]

This seems to be a point of contention lately.

This is my view:

Paganism is not a religion. It is an umbrella term for a large number of religions that use it because they have nothing better--they don't fit anywhere else.

A religion is defined by a specific set of core beliefs, dogmatic or not. Even Wicca, one of the most lenient religions existing, has a core set of beliefs. Otherwise, it's not Wicca at all.

So, for those of you who believe that Paganism is an actual, living, breathing religion, I am curious--what makes you say so? What, exactly, makes "Pagan" a religion in and of itself?

[misschief]

i'd like to know also...

[Hellenic_Witch]

I look at Paganism not as a "religion", but as either 1. a spiritual path or 2. a word used to describe a belief or general beliefs of a large group. Much like Christianity could be viewed as a general term encompassing a large group of beliefs (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.)

[Ben Trismegistus]

I look at Paganism not as a "religion", but as either 1. a spiritual path or 2. a word used to describe a belief or general beliefs of a large group. Much like Christianity could be viewed as a general term encompassing a large group of beliefs (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.)
The difference is that Christianity is both a group of religions and a religion itself. All Christians share a core set of beliefs in a way that all pagans do not.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

I dont consider Paganism a religion, I consider it a spiratual path. I consider myself Pagan but I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.

[mara]

What would you tell someone when you're admitted to the hospital for example and they ask what your religion is? I would say Pagan. I think of paganism as my religion, although technically I'm probably wrong.

[Hellenic_Witch]

The difference is that Christianity is both a group of religions and a religion itself. All Christians share a core set of beliefs in a way that all pagans do not.
True. So I guess Pagans share a common thread in what they do not believe?

[Ben Trismegistus]

What would you tell someone when you're admitted to the hospital for example and they ask what your religion is? I would say Pagan. I think of paganism as my religion, although technically I'm probably wrong.
I've said Wiccan, and they get very confused. :) If you consider yourself just a plain old pagan, what you probably are is an Eclectic Pagan, someone deriving their beliefs from a number of existing pagan religions. If you just want to call yourself pagan, that's fine by me.


True. So I guess Pagans share a common thread in what they do not believe?
That's a hard question to answer. It used to be that I thought that pagans DID have certain beliefs in common, but now it turns out that's apparently not true (although MOST pagan religions share certain common threads, like a rejection of monotheism). So I can't say for sure if pagan religions share any NON-beliefs.

[Athena-Nadine]

I dont consider Paganism a religion, I consider it a spiratual path. I consider myself Pagan but I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.*…nods…* I hear that a lot, and in some ways, I understand that thinking, though the only difference I can see between spiritual and religious is that a person who considers themselves spiritual instead of religious does not follow a particular religion. But what about those of us who are religious? What about those of us who follow a specific religion? Should we not call ourselves Pagan any longer? Should our respective religions no longer go under the Pagan umbrella?




What would you tell someone when you're admitted to the hospital for example and they ask what your religion is? I would say Pagan. I think of paganism as my religion, although technically I'm probably wrong.I can’t say that you’re wrong for calling yourself Pagan. :) But would you just say "Pagan" because you have nothing better to call it, or because it is your religion? What makes what you consider your religion to be the Pagan religion? See, what I’m trying to figure out is, how is it a religion by itself? It very well may be, and it may be that I just don’t know enough about Paganism as a religion to understand. :) Understanding is what I’m looking for.


True. So I guess Pagans share a common thread in what they do not believe?See, the definition of Pagan that I’ve always known is "Not a follower of an Abrahamic religion." It’s the only definition I can see that fits. In all honesty, Pagan can’t really be called "a group of earth-based or nature-revering religions," because not all of us follow a religion that fits those descriptions. Care of the earth and respect and reverence of nature are secondary to my religion (which is where a good deal of my confusion comes from).

[Rowan103]

This is one of those topics you could go round' and round' about and always end up back in the same spot lol.

I think as far as most people who are of one Pagan Path or another that their are alot of ways to view things..all is not black and white. At least from my experience most Pagans are very open minded. That leads to a ton of ways to explain or give an definition for Paganism.

As for myself I guess I would consider myself an Eclectic Pagan. I pull from many directions. My hardest thing with Christianity(and this got me in alot of trouble in Catholic highschool) was I always wanted to know why is it always this way or that. I was always asking why can't it be more personal..why do I have to do it this way..why is it so cut and dry. Considering I was not Catholic, but attended a Baptist church, I usually ended up more interested in Theology class than the Catholic kids and knew more about their religion than they did. What has drawn me to the place I am now is my desire to improvise, pull from here and there, go with my gut feelings as to when where and how to worship. Now I realize not all pagan paths are like that and many are structured. The thing is thou even those sects are acepting of diversity.

I have been reading Ann Moura's Green Witchcraft Series. I feel like I am at home. I am very much a person who like to do it myself, make it myself, I love to be in the Kitchen as well. Cooking for my family brings me alot of satisfaction and I try to put alot of myself and love into it. I suppose the direction i am headed is more of that of Kitchen/Green Witch who is also very Spiritual. hmm hope I never have to try and explain that in a hospital setting or situation :)

[Rowan103]

[b][i]I can’t say that you’re wrong for calling yourself Pagan. :) But would you just say "Pagan" because you have nothing better to call it, or because it is your religion? What makes what you consider your religion to be the Pagan religion? See, what I’m trying to figure out is, how is it a religion by itself? It very well may be, and it may be that I just don’t know enough about Paganism as a religion to understand. :) Understanding is what I’m looking for.

See, the definition of Pagan that I’ve always known is "Not a follower of an Abrahamic religion." It’s the only definition I can see that fits. In all honesty, Pagan can’t really be called "a group of earth-based or nature-revering religions," because not all of us follow a religion that fits those descriptions. Care of the earth and respect and reverence of nature are secondary to my religion (which is where a good deal of my confusion comes from).

I think maybe some people use the term because it is a term that people of other faiths will recognize and understand. For example..if you were to tell a Christian that you were of The Stregheria Path or Faith what have you..they would have no clue what you were refering to. Even some would not know the word Wiccan. So it would be easier to say "Pagan" because the chances are they will then have a better understanding.

[Tsuchimaru]

Ok...now I'm -really- confused. Gaia21, when you said "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual", what did you mean?

[Rowan103]

I am not going to anwser for her..this is from my perspective of religion vs. being spiritual.

I think of religion as a definition of practices within a set faith. It is what you can put down in words. Being spiritual is not something you put in black and white..it is something you are..it is you worshiping, it is something you feel in your soul.

I guess in essence I could sum it up for me as
Religion=definitions
Spiritual=feelings

[Aidron]

Well, I am not one of those who deems it a religion in any shape, way, or form (I pay attention to semantics too much for that), but I know you want to hear from me anyway just cause you wuv me! :bouncysmi

I deem it a category or classification, nothing more. There are broad concepts shared amongst many (and I will not say all) paths and faiths which fall under the realm of Paganism.

I, however, do not refer to myself as a Pagan and will not select it as an option should the need arise simply because I cannot get past the semantics. I will select other and/or inform them that I am a witch, with my spiritual beliefs being my own and none-ya-damn-business. If they are bewildered by this, eh. I'm not here to enlighten them, they can go research it on their own.

[Calen]

I dont consider Paganism a religion, I consider it a spiratual path. I consider myself Pagan but I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.

I do think of Pagan as an umbrella term for a lot of separate religions as opposed to a religion in and of itself. However, I'm sure there are people out there (and in here) who consider themselves simply 'Pagan' because while they have belief in a greater ... something...their beliefs don't manifest themselves in any particular religion, and they might want some kind of label anyway.

[Mau]

What would you tell someone when you're admitted to the hospital for example and they ask what your religion is?

I always say 'not applicable' :)

[Ben Trismegistus]

Here's a quick and dirty definition of the differences between spirituality and religion (in my humble opinion):

Spirituality is belief in something supernatural.

Religion is spirituality plus ritual practice.

So therefore, what you believe is your spirituality, and how you practice it is your religion.

[mara]

In the case of the whole hospital thing I don't tell them I'm pagan to explain anything to them, I'm tellng them so if I am dying or something they'll know what is appropriate as far as clergy..If they were asking for any other reason, I would also say Not applicable.

[Aidron]

Here's a quick and dirty definition of the differences between spirituality and religion (in my humble opinion):

Spirituality is belief in something supernatural.

Religion is spirituality plus ritual practice.

So therefore, what you believe is your spirituality, and how you practice it is your religion.


An interesting point of view, though almost entirely the opposite of my own. In my own eyes they stand as...

Spirituality: The belief in one or more concepts and ideals that cannot be proven to all as factual.

Religion: The adherence to a specific doctrine, philosophy, and practice that you have faith in but that cannot be proven to all as factual.

However, I will not say that spirituality cannot include a practice of some sort, such as Witchcraft, Meditation to seek enlightenment, and so forth.

[Threase]

I call myself Pagan because paganism (to me and my soulmate) isn't a religion. There isn't a certain set of rules, I can pick and choose what to follow or learn.

BTW, the word Pagan is Roman, it refers to anyone that didn't follow the Roman religion at the time.

[Romani Vixen]

I do think of People as an umbrella term for a lot of separate religions as opposed to a religion in and of itself. However, I'm sure there are people out there (and in here) who consider themselves simply 'People' because while they have belief in a greater ... something...their beliefs don't manifest themselves in any particular religion, and they might want some kind of label anyway.
Pretty much!!!

I call myself Pagan. Technically I'm Ecletic Pagan. and it's not that I want a label... it comes up, and for explanation it's easiest.

[halfwaynowhere]

pagan is just a generalized term, but its much easier than describing personal beliefs in one big long label. its more of a spirituality thing than a religious thing though.

[Hellenic_Witch]

pagan is just a generalized term, but its much easier than describing personal beliefs in one big long label. its more of a spirituality thing than a religious thing though.Pagan is a generalized term, and you are right in the fact that it is easier to use that "umbrella" term instead of elaborating on your path and how you got there. But, I've come to realize through this thread that "Pagan" means alot of different thing to alot of different people. Which shouldn't surprise me since we as Pagans we all have a vast array of beliefs and lifestyles that you may not find in a Christian community or a community of another religious or spiritual group. Just my two cents.

[Shanti]

From the dictionary..
Pagan:

One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew.
One who has no religion
Thats all mine wrote!! :)

[SilentDreams]

I do not follow any pagan religions(i.e. Wicca, Shamanism, Satanism...etc). But my beliefs are pagan. So what term I do I use? Eclectic Pagan. If anyone asks me my religion I say "Eclectic Pagan".

[Kern]

We definitly need another name.Some one said that pagan means some one that does not follow a Abrahamic Faith,well most of those that follow Shinto,Buddhism,Hinduism,Sikhism etc etc do not consider themselves pagan,so when someone calls them pagan that would be an insult.Even some modern recons dont like the name pagan,because of it affiliation with the meaning,ungodly or no believer.
I know pagan is a general term that means anyone that follows a standard religious belief that was once considered a dead religion,no thats a recon,that would leave out neo paganism(modern paths that adopted some old ways,but dont follow a recon path) they didnt exist as a formal religion in the old days....hmmm :wtf: :ahhhh: :huh: :hrmm: :dontknow:
Isnt all pagan paths eclectic?I mean all of them have somethings about them that isnt exactly like they were in ancient times,and even then they adopted things from other religions.So why even use the term.Unless theres a genuine source that is still out there and one strays from that?

[Tzhebee]

If you consider yourself just a plain old pagan, what you probably are is an Eclectic Pagan, someone deriving their beliefs from a number of existing pagan religions.
This is why I call myself a Pagan. Because I am eclectic and pull my beliefs from a number of different places.

I use "Pagan" as a religion for lack of a better description, I guess.

[Memory's Flame]

When I am asked what my faith is I often reply "Pagan" because I don't have a set category that I fall into. I think of "Pagan" as a catch-all! Both a generic term for all of those paths that don't fit anywhere else; but also for those of us who are not of one specific path.

[Kalika]

I dont consider Peopleism a religion, I consider it a spiratual path. I consider myself People but I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.

100% agree.

Hmmm....

Has anyone ever taken a poll on here to see if there IS one thing that all "Pagans" can agree upon in their belief system?

[Kern]

100% agree.

Hmmm....

Has anyone ever taken a poll on here to see if there IS one thing that all "Pagans" can agree upon in their belief system?
Not sure,but I imagine its that we not of the Abrhamic Faiths or Eastern Faiths.

[Pandoras]

I agree that Paganism is not a religion in and of itself, but rather an umbrella term for a number of religions and beliefs. However, I do call myself a Pagan and do tend to think of it as a religion although I know the definitions are not quite right.

When I say I am Pagan (or Neo-Pagan), people might not understand what I am, but they generally understand what I am not - I am not Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and generally not Buddhist, Hindu, etc. (because although pagan in the strictest sense of the word, they don't identify as Pagans).

[Lady Avalon]

To the best of my knowledge the word pagan means, "of the earth". Any religion that is earth based is a pagan religion. Today it is applied by christians to all nonchristian religions.

I agree. Pagan is not a religion.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

LadyAvalon, I think the definition "of the earth" is really a poor one. There are many pagans who are not "earth based" in their path. What comes most directly to mind are reconstructionists and Satanists. Both are generally considered to be pagans and neither of those groups follow earth-based religions.

Nallia, I'm with you though. I've never understood why people used the term pagan as a religious descriptor. It's not a religion, because a religion is generally considered to have a set of rules and common, identifable pattern of beliefs. Pagan just doesn't fit that definition. Then again, I also don't understand the aversion people in the pagan community have to labels, so I'm probably not a good person to ask. ~shrug~