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SilentDreams
October 21st, 2004, 02:53 AM
Could everyone just leave the Christians alone? I mean jeez people enough is enough. I don't care if you've been called a Satanist or "devil-whorshipper" by people(yes they are people) who happen to be of christian faith. Then get mad at them, not their religion. Getting huffy and talking bad about the christian faith makes you no better than the people who call you names. Also did you know that too christians(or all the ones i've talked with about this) anyone who whorships greek gods, celtic gods..etc.. is whorshiping satan, cause technically anything that isn't God is satan in another form. So don't get mad at them for believing their faith. Just accept that they believe one thing about your faith and you believe another and move on! Also stop all this "they stole our holidays" whining! Who really cares? I sure don't. Is that stopping me from celebrating samhain? yule? ostara? It sure isn't. So lets all stop boo hoo-ing over what the christians "do" to us and lets move on with our lives.

Verthandi
October 21st, 2004, 03:05 AM
I agree, Silent, Christian bashing does get bothersome after awhile. However, remember that most pagans were Christian at one time and had the religion forced down their throat. Remember the discrimination just creates circles. Christians discriminate against pagans and pagans in turn, feel that it maybe the other group getting their 'just desserts,' so they do a bit of discriminating. However, the Christians are likely to come back and point fingers and say they were right, we're just a bunch of nasty people...like I said, a vicious, nasty circle. I for one am all for extending the olive branch. Except maybe to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses--those people can stay off my yard and stop trying to sell their religion to me. :razz:

Rudas Starblaze
October 21st, 2004, 08:22 AM
wow, i seen and i couldnt believe!!!! well, for all of you who have sided or not sided with me let me get one thing straight,,,,, i am nonbias. in other words, i am not going to put down anyones beliefs, i have pagan freinds, infact my mentor in witchcraft is pagan, i do not look down on anyone unless they wrong me first. i have my pagan beliefs as well as christian,,, how do you ask??? its simple, i have posted this before. "thou shall have no other gods before me" (10 commandments) so in other words, the bible never denied that there are no other gods (in the pagan belief there is) just that there is one God above all gods and hes is the alpha and the omega, the beggining and the end, the creator and destroyer. so in saying that, yes i do worship the higher of all gods, but i do not deny the others, for they all have an important roll to play in each of our lives. i find, that in order to achieve a higher standard in the power of the craft, one has to be open to all sides. lets not look down upon each other. (yes, i do look down on most christians for the simple fact that they talk the talk, but dont walk the walk) always remember to keep to your beliefs, its what makes each of us unique.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

ap Dafydd
October 21st, 2004, 08:26 AM
Could everyone just leave the Christians alone? I mean jeez people enough is enough. I don't care if you've been called a Satanist or "devil-whorshipper" by people(yes they are people) who happen to be of christian faith. Then get mad at them, not their religion. Getting huffy and talking bad about the christian faith makes you no better than the people who call you names. Also did you know that too christians(or all the ones i've talked with about this) anyone who whorships greek gods, celtic gods..etc.. is whorshiping satan, cause technically anything that isn't God is satan in another form. So don't get mad at them for believing their faith. Just accept that they believe one thing about your faith and you believe another and move on! Also stop all this "they stole our holidays" whining! Who really cares? I sure don't. Is that stopping me from celebrating samhain? yule? ostara? It sure isn't. So lets all stop boo hoo-ing over what the christians "do" to us and lets move on with our lives.

I'd be happy to leave them alone. SO long as they leave us alone.

It's not for me to say whether the responsibility for a Christian's action is to do with the individual or the religion. I'm not a Christian. It's for them to take responsibility for their own people and expel any communicants who engage in religious persecution of others.

'S all I want to say, really...

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

nomadicdragon
October 21st, 2004, 08:34 AM
Here's the thing. You can't bitch and moan about christians doing things and persecuting when you make fun of them... *shrugs*

seems to me that you shouldn't come down on the religion.. when in reality it's how individuals are interpreting it and following it. There are bad, stupid people in every religion and faith.. not restricted to Christianity. It would be nice if people in general would realize that it's not a *group* thing.. it's an individual thing.

:wtf:

but whatever

Ahautenites
October 21st, 2004, 08:56 AM
If you're noticing anyone bashing the Christian faith, report the post or PM one of the admins. It's far more effective than indulging in wrist-slapping.

nomadicdragon
October 21st, 2004, 08:57 AM
If you're noticing anyone bashing the Christian faith, report the post or PM one of the admins. It's far more effective than indulging in wrist-slapping.


I was talking more in general ... but SL may be talking specifically.

Ahautenites
October 21st, 2004, 08:59 AM
Sorry, ND... I hadn't even read your post yet. I was commenting on the first post. :)

nomadicdragon
October 21st, 2004, 09:00 AM
Sorry, ND... I hadn't even read your post yet. I was commenting on the first post. :)


:rollingla


perhaps i should just go back to bed. *snickers*

Ahautenites
October 21st, 2004, 09:22 AM
**laughs** You and me both.

Ben Trismegistus
October 21st, 2004, 10:17 AM
Well, as far as I'm concerned, there's a difference between bashing the religion of Christianity in general, and bashing specific Christians who do stupid things (like call you a devil worshipper).

Rudas Starblaze
October 21st, 2004, 10:38 AM
Well, as far as I'm concerned, there's a difference between bashing the religion of Christianity in general, and bashing specific Christians who do stupid things (like call you a devil worshipper).


i agree. i get called a devil worshiper too, even though i claim to me a christian. you wouldnt believe the persecution i go through from other christians for being what i am...... i believe they are the ones who are lost, not me!!!!!!! i cant get over how many christians are hypocrits. funny i should say that cause to them i am the hypocrit for being a witch, but i am poud of it!!!!!! wow, a christian bashing christians,,,(admins, i hope that dosent make disqualified as a memeber)

Rudas Starblaze

DebLipp
October 21st, 2004, 10:42 AM
You know, if you're in the early process of forming new religious ideas, it's pretty natural to contrast them with the old religious ideas that you're familiar with. For most of us, that means Christianity. It's normal and natural to learn Paganism, in part, by seeing how it compares to the religion you knew best before. It's also normal, and smart, to learn religious history and see how the ideas, assumptions, and preconceptions that currently permeate society's thinking about religious history developed.

Poor, poor Christians. Some of them are so in fear of being "bashed" that any mention in a negative light is called bashing. But that's not what the word means. Bashing is attacking unfairly. In fact, the word came into current usage by meaning beating and murdering (gay bashing). To criticize, to examine history and reality with a critical eye is NOT bashing, even if it is inclusive of negativity.

Infinite Grey
October 21st, 2004, 11:10 AM
wow, i seen and i couldnt believe!!!! well, for all of you who have sided or not sided with me let me get one thing straight,,,,, i am nonbias. in other words, i am not going to put down anyones beliefs, i have pagan freinds, infact my mentor in witchcraft is pagan, i do not look down on anyone unless they wrong me first. i have my pagan beliefs as well as christian,,, how do you ask??? its simple, i have posted this before. "thou shall have no other gods before me" (10 commandments) so in other words, the bible never denied that there are no other gods (in the pagan belief there is) just that there is one God above all gods and hes is the alpha and the omega, the beggining and the end, the creator and destroyer. so in saying that, yes i do worship the higher of all gods, but i do not deny the others, for they all have an important roll to play in each of our lives. i find, that in order to achieve a higher standard in the power of the craft, one has to be open to all sides. lets not look down upon each other. (yes, i do look down on most christians for the simple fact that they talk the talk, but dont walk the walk) always remember to keep to your beliefs, its what makes each of us unique.

in light, love, and wisdom,
Rudas Starblaze

Wow! You rock, very similar to my beliefs! Though i would concider myself closer to agnostic at the moment.

:: taceo ::
October 21st, 2004, 02:46 PM
It's not for me to say whether the responsibility for a Christian's action is to do with the individual or the religion. I'm not a Christian. It's for them to take responsibility for their own people and expel any communicants who engage in religious persecution of others.And thats not too much to ask is it? I suppose that you'll be taking personal responsibility for the actions of everyone who shares your faith/beliefs?

Sorry to be so harsh, but you can't seriously expect a person to hold responsibilty for the actions of millions of others just because they happen to share the same faith!

I'm not Christian but know many who are open to the religious beliefs of others. Sure some are predjudice against others, so are some pagans! Don't tar them all with the same brush, we wouldn't like it!

Lunacie
October 21st, 2004, 02:55 PM
You know, if you're in the early process of forming new religious ideas, it's pretty natural to contrast them with the old religious ideas that you're familiar with. For most of us, that means Christianity. It's normal and natural to learn Paganism, in part, by seeing how it compares to the religion you knew best before. It's also normal, and smart, to learn religious history and see how the ideas, assumptions, and preconceptions that currently permeate society's thinking about religious history developed.

Poor, poor Christians. Some of them are so in fear of being "bashed" that any mention in a negative light is called bashing. But that's not what the word means. Bashing is attacking unfairly. In fact, the word came into current usage by meaning beating and murdering (gay bashing). To criticize, to examine history and reality with a critical eye is NOT bashing, even if it is inclusive of negativity.

I agree.

And I wanted people to have another chance to read your post. :hahugh:

Rubber_Piggy
October 21st, 2004, 09:14 PM
My problem with christian bashing is that the people who do it are usually also harping on about 'freedom of religion' and 'acceptance of all other paths as valid' which makes them hypocrits.

So if you are gunna bash christians (or any other path) you have to accept that you are not practicing freedom of religion.

I personally try my best not to make negative comments about anyone elses path because of my belief in freedom of belief/religion.

DebLipp
October 21st, 2004, 09:25 PM
My problem with christian bashing is that the people who do it are usually also harping on about 'freedom of religion' and 'acceptance of all other paths as valid' which makes them hypocrits.

So if you are gunna bash christians (or any other path) you have to accept that you are not practicing freedom of religion.

I personally try my best not to make negative comments about anyone elses path because of my belief in freedom of belief/religion.

You're mixing apples and oranges. People don't "practice" freedom of religion. Governments either provide or infringe upon it. People can SAY whatever they like about another religion, and that might make them informed or ignorant, tolerant or bigoted, but it does not infringe upon freedom of religion.

Second of all, and this is VERY important, to criticize and to bash are NOT the same thing. If I say "I think it is very negative to have a doctrine of salvation through one God only, and I think it hurts society to have this doctrine," then I have criticized Christianity, but I have not bashed it. Freedom of religion is in NO WAY enhanced by people fearing to speak their minds or to have opinions.

Aidron
October 21st, 2004, 09:39 PM
Personally, I criticisize every religion. From Christianity, to Buddhism, to Wicca. I find things within each that make me want to vomit all over myself. This is why it is not suitable for me to dedicate myself to any one path.

However, I also bash religions. Ooooh, shame on me. Eh, that's life. I make jokes about every religion-with no malicious intent usually in mind, simply me seeing the opportunity for a joke.

"Vote for Our Lord, Vote Bush for 2004!" This was a bumper sticker I saw. I both criticisized this and bashed it. 'Our Lord'? I wish you would get it through your head that he is your lord, not mine. And do you honestly think any messiah based on undying love for humanity would vote for some egotistical airhead bent on restraining and causing others to conform to his will? I think not.

The only thing that bugs me about this sort of thing-bashing and criticism-is if you base your faith around it. If you have nothing better to do than sit around and continually vomit up this drivel, you're not a member of any faith-you're simply full of contempt.

Theres
October 21st, 2004, 09:41 PM
personally, i will bash ignorance and bigotry at every opportunity i get, and i don't care what religion the recipient professes to be.

Serendipity
October 21st, 2004, 10:14 PM
So if you are gunna bash christians (or any other path) you have to accept that you are not practicing freedom of religion.

I practice freedom FROM religion. They don't thump their bible in my face and I wont thump my cauldron in theirs. There is a line, and once it's crossed I'm not just going to sit back and let them dictate to me what is truth and what isn't.

~*Ginger*~
October 21st, 2004, 10:19 PM
everyone
i have no idea what in the world your referring to, but i know I'm not included in that everyone!
Everyone is a very broad term....


personally, i will bash ignorance and bigotry at every opportunity i get, and i don't care what religion the recipient professes to be.
_handclapp

Calen
October 21st, 2004, 10:29 PM
I agree with DebLipp. Criticism and bashing are two different things. One's perfectly healthy, one not so much. I've expressed my frustrations with certain aspects of Christianity (and certain Christians) but I have never said that I think Christianity is inherently wrong, or that they are all 'bad' people. That would be silly.

Pure Ahimsa
October 21st, 2004, 10:31 PM
Have at least 10 family members of yours been tortured, killed or converted by the Catholic Church? If not, shut up. I feel the Catholic Church is evil, NOT the Catholics. Their have been proofs of priests reporting all the information that people have told them during confession, which is really disturbing. But why should we allow a people who blindly support a evil cause tred over us?
I may speak with harsh words, but if they were not useful, they would not be here, because everything is useful and everything is a teacher.
So, I am glad that I do not want them all to die. I am proud that I can live without wanting to hurt anyone. Though manu organization are here to do bad, even an enemy is a great spiritual teacher because they teach you patience, understanding and much more.
If we do not point out the wrong things, then wrong things will grow through the generations. We must take a stand, or eventually we will be slaughtered. And don't think I am exaggerating, look at history...

misschief
October 21st, 2004, 10:31 PM
i hate everyone equally http://www.angrygeeks.org/mw/images/smilies/biggrin.gif. i do sometimes criticize... but only in my thoughts, yep.. still wrong. but it's better than saying it and making someone furious just because i don't see it the way they do. i don't stand for my pagan friends criticism of others either. it's just not me.

Pure Ahimsa
October 21st, 2004, 10:33 PM
Though bashing and pointing wrong things out are two different things, so you are right in many ways. =)

misschief
October 21st, 2004, 10:34 PM
Though bashing and pointing wrong things out are two different things, so you are right in many ways. =)that's very true.. BUT, when it comes to religion... hard to say what's wrong.

Rudas Starblaze
October 22nd, 2004, 09:06 AM
Have at least 10 family members of yours been tortured, killed or converted by the Catholic Church? If not, shut up. I feel the Catholic Church is evil, NOT the Catholics. Their have been proofs of priests reporting all the information that people have told them during confession, which is really disturbing. But why should we allow a people who blindly support a evil cause tred over us?
I may speak with harsh words, but if they were not useful, they would not be here, because everything is useful and everything is a teacher.
So, I am glad that I do not want them all to die. I am proud that I can live without wanting to hurt anyone. Though manu organization are here to do bad, even an enemy is a great spiritual teacher because they teach you patience, understanding and much more.
If we do not point out the wrong things, then wrong things will grow through the generations. We must take a stand, or eventually we will be slaughtered. And don't think I am exaggerating, look at history...


i agree, my wife is a catholic,,, whos having an affair and living with another guy and thinks shes doing nothing wrong,,,, go figure?? but my best friend is catholic and dosent share the beliefs of the catholic church, which is good. catholics and christians are two very different religions.

:: taceo ::
October 22nd, 2004, 11:18 AM
FloraCove wrote:
i have no idea what in the world your referring to, but i know I'm not included in that everyone!
Everyone is a very broad term....Apologies FloraCove, are you refering to my post? If so i think you've misinterpreted what i was trying to say, (sarcasm is hard to put across in writing!)

*taceo makes a mental note*

I was trying to make the point that no one can or should be held responsible for the actions of others just because of a common link (such as faith); and that people should be viewed as individuals, not a group!

If not, then just ignore me....:bigredblu

Little Willow
October 22nd, 2004, 11:29 AM
taceo I totally agree with you. Although a person's beliefs go towards making the person as a whole, their actions are their own and should be dealt with as such. I don't agree with the Christian religion ... but that's my problem. I don't look at an individual and decide that because they're Christian they're a bad person. I make my mind up after talking to them. There are good Christians and bad Christians. But that can be said about all religions. But it's the person not the religion that's at fault.

Anyway ... who's bashed a Christian on here? I think I missed something.

arctic splash
October 22nd, 2004, 02:44 PM
Well said, silent_lover. :thumbsup:


I agree, Silent, Christian bashing does get bothersome after awhile. However, remember that most pagans were Christian at one time and had the religion forced down their throat. Remember the discrimination just creates circles. Christians discriminate against pagans and pagans in turn, feel that it maybe the other group getting their 'just desserts,' so they do a bit of discriminating. However, the Christians are likely to come back and point fingers and say they were right, we're just a bunch of nasty people...like I said, a vicious, nasty circle. I for one am all for extending the olive branch. Except maybe to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses--those people can stay off my yard and stop trying to sell their religion to me. :razz:

Spreading the Word of God is a major part of religion for Jehovah's Witnesses, and although it may get annoying to those of us who don't agree, and know we never will agree, I feel they have the right to it. (It's the use of force and real religious descrimination that I really hate). If it's part of their religion to talk to me about their beliefs, then so be it. My mom has some Jehovah's Witness friends who have been visiting every once in a while since I was very young. Since my mom learned to think for herself, and question what she's told, she's posed some really great questions to those Jehovah's Witnesses that they weren't able to answer. Just might get them thinking critically about their own faith. That can be a good thing for everyone.

As for Mormons, I met three really wonderful people in Salzburg. They were Mormons.Never once did they try to sell me to their religion, although it was obvious from talking to them that faith was very important to them. They really try to live their faith, and truly, they were all among the kindest, most all around wonderful people I've ever met. It's very rare to meet such kind and open people. Sadly, when I left Austria, I lost their contact info... but I will always remember them fondly. Of course... I would never talk to them about some of my beliefs, and I'm not sure whether I could, but I fully accept that there are some things they might not be able to accept. That's okay with me.

Yay, Christians! :) I'm not talking about the belligerent, closed-minded 'Christians,' or the preachers who always seem so *angry* while talking about peace and love (?), but the open and caring ones. They deserve a 'yay' every once in a while, I think.

arctic splash
October 22nd, 2004, 03:07 PM
Well, as far as I'm concerned, there's a difference between bashing the religion of Christianity in general, and bashing specific Christians who do stupid things (like call you a devil worshipper).

Someone said something similar already, but I also wanted to add my two cents. If someone attacks you, and then you proceed to make unfair criticisms of that person, it's sort of... well... immature? "You're a devil worshipper." "Well, um... your hair looks so stupid! And your religion sucks!" I don't think bashing is ever constructive or worthwhile.

If someone attacks you unfairly for your religion, and you proceed to call them a bigot for it, I wouldn't call that bashing... because there's some merit in your opinion that the person is a bigot. If you complain about how horribly you've been treated by some others who practice the same faith, that's also merited. However, if you retort with 'Your religion sucks,' or something of that nature... which is not merited... I'd consider that bashing. Bashing never helps anything.

Lunacie
October 22nd, 2004, 04:31 PM
I haven't seen too many posts around here that are basically saying, "Your religion sucks because I don't agree with it." Some of the criticisms I've read from MWers haven't exactly been constructive, but in my experience they are warranted.

Pandoras
October 22nd, 2004, 08:37 PM
Spreading the Word of God is a major part of religion for Jehovah's Witnesses, and although it may get annoying to those of us who don't agree, and know we never will agree, I feel they have the right to it. (It's the use of force and real religious descrimination that I really hate). If it's part of their religion to talk to me about their beliefs, then so be it.
This is exactly one of my biggest beefs with Christianity - the need to convert everyone. I understand that it's important to them; I understand that they have a fundamental right to their religion, but I don't want it on my doorstep. In fact, I don't want it all. And worse of all, I hate going to a Pagan place or event, which I like to think of as being safe spaces, only to find more Christians preaching to me about Jesus's love and how I need to accept "the truth."

Now I realize that not all Christians are like this, but many are, and it's not just Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons. And after getting this time and time again, it's only natural to develop some hostility towards the attitude and possibly even the proponents. But goddess forbid that I express it because that means I'm "intolerant." Well, tolerance doesn't mean blind acceptance in my book and I don't see why I should be tolerant of people who constantly belittle and insult my religion and, consequently, me as well.

~*Ginger*~
October 23rd, 2004, 11:05 AM
No harm, no foul...

I was addressing the thread originator, with the use of the word, "Everyone".

Hey, it doesn't matter to me anyone's religion.

Live & let live.
_travolta_

WingedTigerChild
October 23rd, 2004, 04:15 PM
I think the problem starts with people believing that Christianity is one, unified religion, when in reality it is merely an umbrella term under which denominations like Catholicism and Calvinism lie. The belief of a unified Christianity often leads to the belief that every Christian believes the same thing and interprets scripture in the same way, which is, again, false. Often there are Christians within the same denominations that disagree on certain things.


I also think itís important to realize that a religion is nothing without itís adherents. Yes, there are scriptures, but without someone to read them and put them into action (give them meaning), they are only a bunch of words on a page.

Stormcall
October 23rd, 2004, 05:50 PM
I will treat Christianity and Christian individuals with respect, like I do to any other faith or person. However, I WILL NOT simply sit back and accept it if someone (Christian or otherwise) tries to shove their religion doctrine down my throat. And I definetly don't take kindly to being told I'm a sinner and I'm going "straight to m---fu(k&ing hell" and I will critisize the PEOPLE who've told me so- not Christians as a whole. I have been PHYSICALLY ATTACKED by Christians, in the name of Jesus, for my faith. That's what it's like here in rural america. And I refuse to "just deal with it" at that point. Acceptance and freedom of religion is well and good, but I won't tolerate violence silently.
Just my 2 cents...

Lunamoth
October 24th, 2004, 11:29 AM
I think I have been sheltered from being "bashed" as a pagan, to be honest. No one has ever done it to me directly. I work at a company right now (as a temp) which very blatently leans toward hiring Christians. The CEO has pics of Jesus and angels all over her office. They say prayer at staff meetings. When I transcribe her voicemail for her, half of it is prayer requests.

At first I started feeling very overwhelmed and guarded at all this, but one day my husband (who isn't pagan) said, "why don't you wear your pent? They wear their crosses, it's only fair. It might feel like a talisman and help you through it." So I did, and i've worn it every day since and not a soul has said a word about it. Maybe they don't even know what it is.

Anyway, the first I've really encountered someone shoving their Christian doctrines down my throat was at another board (where swearing and vulgar language IS allowed) and I said "G.oddam". This guy proceeded to tell me not to take the Lord's name in vain. I shouldn't have replied at all, but I was like, "It's your G.od, not mine." And thus he began to spew hellfire and brimstone at me. And he was so certain he was *right* about it all, and so obnoxiously condescending about it, I wanted to vomit.

Which goes to show you shouldn't get involved in religious discussions on the Internet unless it's a board for that. LOL

I do leave them alone as a group. My husband spouts on about Christians and I end up being the one defending their angle. I just can't stand self-righteous obnoxious *people*.

Edit: This will keep the Witnesses from waking you up early after a long night of sacrif- er, I mean, ritual:
clicky clicky (http://www.northernsun.com/cgi-bin/ns/2218.html)

semi
October 24th, 2004, 12:13 PM
Christians are like any other group of people. Some are good, some are bad, most just try to get through their lives like everybody else. I've been physically attacked be Christians for being openly pagan. Also, when I was homeless, I was taken into the homes of Christians and fed without them trying to convert me or preach to me, but just because they cared about a fellow human.

If I have something unkind to say about someone, it's based on the kind of person that they are, not their religion, ethnicity, gender, height, weight, favorite color, or anything else irrelevant. But it's easy for people to put them under a conveniant title and say things like "Christians suck" or "Druids are hippie tree-huggers" or "Girl Scouts worship the Devil".
I think most people, if they really thought about it, would not condemn an entire group of people based only on the actions of a subset of that group. It's a passionate topic and when in the heat of passion, people sometimes say things that are a little more extreme than they meant it to be.

fay
October 24th, 2004, 06:32 PM
ah yes but girl scouts, they really are evil! :nyah:

Pandoras
October 25th, 2004, 03:55 AM
Girl Scouts worship the Devil
Really? That explains sooooo much.

I was a Girl Scout. :devil:

Rudas Starblaze
October 25th, 2004, 08:43 AM
ah yes but girl scouts, they really are evil! :nyah:


and here all this time i thought they were just smiling and happy cause they are taking money!!!!!! who would of guessed!!!!!!!!! THOSE COOKIES ARE DRUGGED I TELL YA!!!!!!!!!


Rudas

Lunacie
October 25th, 2004, 09:17 AM
When someone uses their political or religious affiliation to attack the morals of another group, then it's understandable that those who have been attacked would associate the political party or religion with the attack, eh? Logically we can separate the ones who use their beliefs to bash others from those who accept that it's our differences that make life interesting... but emotionally we simply feel attacked and we may lash back out at them with whatever tool they have provided.

Secrets Flame
October 25th, 2004, 09:38 AM
It is a self-perpetuating circle... Especially as the vast majority of conservative Christians EXPECT to be ridiculed... lol, to them, it proves that they are doing it right. That was one of only 2 promises made to them by the Christ, about their lives on this earth.

So, the more they "bible bash" you, the more you lash out at them, the more it proves to them that what they are doing is right, so the more they bible bash.

Infinite Grey
October 25th, 2004, 11:06 AM
It is a self-perpetuating circle... Especially as the vast majority of conservative Christians EXPECT to be ridiculed... lol, to them, it proves that they are doing it right. That was one of only 2 promises made to them by the Christ, about their lives on this earth.

So, the more they "bible bash" you, the more you lash out at them, the more it proves to them that what they are doing is right, so the more they bible bash.

That is so true, you could almost admire them for that.

Secrets Flame
October 25th, 2004, 09:04 PM
Interestingly enough, the only way to effectively combat bible-bashing christians is to do what Christianity teaches. (how ironic)

That is "if someone strikes you on one cheek, offer them the other. If they steal your coat, offer them your shirt as well"

and to "bless those who wrong you"

Nothing puts a bible-basher more off-guard than acting how they are meant to be acting

savannahrose44
October 25th, 2004, 09:26 PM
You're mixing apples and oranges. People don't "practice" freedom of religion. Governments either provide or infringe upon it. People can SAY whatever they like about another religion, and that might make them informed or ignorant, tolerant or bigoted, but it does not infringe upon freedom of religion.

Second of all, and this is VERY important, to criticize and to bash are NOT the same thing. If I say "I think it is very negative to have a doctrine of salvation through one God only, and I think it hurts society to have this doctrine," then I have criticized Christianity, but I have not bashed it. Freedom of religion is in NO WAY enhanced by people fearing to speak their minds or to have opinions.

I would tend to agree with you here.... _wiz_

savannahrose44
October 25th, 2004, 09:42 PM
Well said, silent_lover. :thumbsup:

As for Mormons, I met three really wonderful people in Salzburg. They were Mormons.Never once did they try to sell me to their religion, although it was obvious from talking to them that faith was very important to them. They really try to live their faith, and truly, they were all among the kindest, most all around wonderful people I've ever met. It's very rare to meet such kind and open people. Sadly, when I left Austria, I lost their contact info... but I will always remember them fondly. Of course... I would never talk to them about some of my beliefs, and I'm not sure whether I could, but I fully accept that there are some things they might not be able to accept. That's okay with me.



As an ex-mormon I might add that your experience is more the exception than the rule. Mormon missionaries tend to behave much differently in the states than they do overseas. Firstly they are usually speaking a language that is not their own. I left the mormon church for a multitude of reasons one of which is they are extremely pushy and tend to sidestep questions they don't want to answer. :whistle:

savannahrose44
October 25th, 2004, 09:45 PM
Really? That explains sooooo much.

I was a Girl Scout. :devil:

Mee toooo!

Haerfest Leah
October 26th, 2004, 10:17 AM
I kept missing the chance to reply to this post. I am one who had it shoved down their throat as a child and left it as soon as got the chance. I'd say I have been guilty in my life of poking fun and jokes at christains but I don't bash their religion. I do however have no problems with anyone including myself who may bash or look down on those christains who are dumb enough to call us pagans, neo pagans, whatever, bad things and treat us like we are beneath them. Those particular individuals are free game in my mind!

Secrets Flame
October 26th, 2004, 10:19 AM
Those particular individuals are free game in my mind!

And it's those people that I described in this post


It is a self-perpetuating circle... Especially as the vast majority of conservative Christians EXPECT to be ridiculed... lol, to them, it proves that they are doing it right. That was one of only 2 promises made to them by the Christ, about their lives on this earth.

So, the more they "bible bash" you, the more you lash out at them, the more it proves to them that what they are doing is right, so the more they bible bash

and how to deal with them effectively here


Interestingly enough, the only way to effectively combat bible-bashing christians is to do what Christianity teaches. (how ironic)

That is "if someone strikes you on one cheek, offer them the other. If they steal your coat, offer them your shirt as well"

and to "bless those who wrong you"

Nothing puts a bible-basher more off-guard than acting how they are meant to be acting

arctic splash
October 26th, 2004, 06:45 PM
This is exactly one of my biggest beefs with Christianity - the need to convert everyone. I understand that it's important to them; I understand that they have a fundamental right to their religion, but I don't want it on my doorstep. In fact, I don't want it all. And worse of all, I hate going to a Pagan place or event, which I like to think of as being safe spaces, only to find more Christians preaching to me about Jesus's love and how I need to accept "the truth."

Now I realize that not all Christians are like this, but many are, and it's not just Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons. And after getting this time and time again, it's only natural to develop some hostility towards the attitude and possibly even the proponents. But goddess forbid that I express it because that means I'm "intolerant." Well, tolerance doesn't mean blind acceptance in my book and I don't see why I should be tolerant of people who constantly belittle and insult my religion and, consequently, me as well.

I just accept it as one of life's annoyances. I don't think they should be going to Pagan events or anything with the specific intent of converting people, but I accept that they do what they do. (I haven't been truly annoyed by them, either, so I don't know what that's like). When someone hands me a religious pamphlet on the street, or tries to talk to me about religion, I kindly thank them, and I feel happy that I've helped them. If anyone disrespects me, though, I react in the same way as I usually react to disrespect. I'll allow them to talk to me about religion or whatever they like... but as soon as I start to feel belittled or disrespected, I'll try to respond appropriately (or simply walk away). Disrespect is disrespect whether it's coming from a Jehovah's Witness, an anarchist, or a farmer.

Dallin
October 27th, 2004, 08:27 AM
Could everyone just leave the Christians alone? I mean jeez people enough is enough. I don't care if you've been called a Satanist or "devil-whorshipper" by people(yes they are people) who happen to be of christian faith. Then get mad at them, not their religion. Getting huffy and talking bad about the christian faith makes you no better than the people who call you names. Also did you know that too christians(or all the ones i've talked with about this) anyone who whorships greek gods, celtic gods..etc.. is whorshiping satan, cause technically anything that isn't God is satan in another form. So don't get mad at them for believing their faith. Just accept that they believe one thing about your faith and you believe another and move on! Also stop all this "they stole our holidays" whining! Who really cares? I sure don't. Is that stopping me from celebrating samhain? yule? ostara? It sure isn't. So lets all stop boo hoo-ing over what the christians "do" to us and lets move on with our lives.I agree totally, Silent_lover. Despite the fact that I'm not Christian, Chirstianity itself is not a bad thing. Yes, people USE it to bad ends sometimes but it's the same to some extent with everything. I've always been fond of the saying, "War and religion bring out the best and worst of people." If people want to be abusive or whatever, religion is just an excuse to do it. But that doesn't make the religion itself bad.