The Bible and Female Deity:

[Kern]

Hebrew:
ruarch(feminine Gender)"spirit"
elohim(semi-plural)"god",in the same way that group,church,coven and family refers to one entity but with more than one member.This word is translated God in Genesis and gods in other places.
Genesis 1:26,27 says "Let us make man in our image" and then says "so(he isnt in the original Hebrew)made them both man and woman.
Proverbs 8:22-36 speaks of a female spirit
Jeremiah 44:17-19 speaks of a "Queen of Heaven".

So why did the female deity stop existing or what made her become so bad that it was forbidden to worship her? Just was wondering!

[lightdragon]

offhand i do not have the sources to back me up. But from what i gathered when the Kingdom of Isreal was conquered by the Babylonians about 558 B.C.E. much of the manuscripts became distorted and a more partiarchical took place. And this was where a monothesistic aspect came in. Oh i wish i ca give you the source for this though.

[Marchosias]

Either that or the Holy Spirit was at one point seen as being feminine. Which actually, explains it nicely.

[Djinn]

So why did the female deity stop existing or what made her become so bad that it was forbidden to worship her? Just was wondering!

I don't think the goddess vanished in christian countries until the Reformation...and she never vanished from much of the world. The Hebrews of the Bible were surrounded by polytheistic cultures, as were the Jews and early Christians of the New Testament. Though paganism was officially outlawed by Constantine it didn't vanish. There are documented histories of non-Christian cultures in western Europe until the 12th century CE and into the 15th century CE is eastern Europe (specifically Latvia and Lithuania). By the time western Europe was nominally Catholic there were heretics in Savoy and Provence who worhipped a goddess--at least, the Catholic church's propaganda said they did. Since almost nothing of what the Cathars themselves wrote survives, we are forced to take the church's word for it. And of course the Catholic church itself had the cult of Mary and of the saints, which some people still say is goddess worshipping polytheism in disguise.

In fact, that may be what did it in. During the Reformation the cult of Mary and the saints fell out of favor in much of Europe. Luther and Calvin and their followers hated the notion of feminine deity and did their level best to get rid of any hint of it in their worship. While Catholicism and Protestantism fought for followers, and while those on both sides were busily burning heretics and sometimes "witches," worship of Mary took a header even in majority Catholic countries. It's here that the goddess almost vanished. But, of course, she didn't vanish completely, even in Europe. There were occultists and Mariolaters and kabbalists (if I'm spelling that right), all of whom had room in their thinking for a feminine deity.

All this is highly interpretive (meaning people could say I made it up) but I think the evidence will bear it with only minor stretching. But even if the goddess did vanish from the Christian west, she never disappeared in most of the world. She was worshipped in non-Jewish/Christian/Islamic world from ancient times to the present. I tried to answer the question I believe you meant to ask rather the one you actually did ask, if that makes any sense at all.

[Kern]

I don't think the goddess vanished in christian countries until the Reformation...and she never vanished from much of the world. The Hebrews of the Bible were surrounded by polytheistic cultures, as were the Jews and early Christians of the New Testament. Though paganism was officially outlawed by Constantine it didn't vanish. There are documented histories of non-Christian cultures in western Europe until the 12th century CE and into the 15th century CE is eastern Europe (specifically Latvia and Lithuania). By the time western Europe was nominally Catholic there were heretics in Savoy and Provence who worhipped a goddess--at least, the Catholic church's propaganda said they did. Since almost nothing of what the Cathars themselves wrote survives, we are forced to take the church's word for it. And of course the Catholic church itself had the cult of Mary and of the saints, which some people still say is goddess worshipping polytheism in disguise.

In fact, that may be what did it in. During the Reformation the cult of Mary and the saints fell out of favor in much of Europe. Luther and Calvin and their followers hated the notion of feminine deity and did their level best to get rid of any hint of it in their worship. While Catholicism and Protestantism fought for followers, and while those on both sides were busily burning heretics and sometimes "witches," worship of Mary took a header even in majority Catholic countries. It's here that the goddess almost vanished. But, of course, she didn't vanish completely, even in Europe. There were occultists and Mariolaters and kabbalists (if I'm spelling that right), all of whom had room in their thinking for a feminine deity.

All this is highly interpretive (meaning people could say I made it up) but I think the evidence will bear it with only minor stretching. But even if the goddess did vanish from the Christian west, she never disappeared in most of the world. She was worshipped in non-Jewish/Christian/Islamic world from ancient times to the present. I tried to answer the question I believe you meant to ask rather the one you actually did ask, if that makes any sense at all.
What you said makes since,but I meant why did the female deity die out or become hated within the Bible and the Hebrew beliefs,not from paganism and the world.....The Bible condemns the worship of the Queen of Heaven and evidence shows there was a female presence from the scriptures that I quoted.

[auryn]

Another form of Christianity which would be of interest to you is Gnosticism. Therein a female divine form known as Sophia emanated the Demiurge (ie. YHVH, Jesus' dad) who believed he was the only God. In fact, Sophia herself, among other Gods known as Aeons, emanated from a God-force that is transcendant and ultimate, beyond human comprehension.

The Christianity we know from Sunday school and religions class is not the only one that existed. In the past, Christianity was much more flexible, with vastly differing myths, beliefs, and principles.

It's not necessarily true that the female became hated in the Bible, or that she was removed from Christian beliefs. The form of Christianity that took mainstream popularity did so because of politics and historical choices made by those in power, in order to maintain power and unite people. However, it is not the only form or interpretation. If you Google "queen of heaven" you will find many groups and people who worship the queen of heaven.

[Kern]

In fact, Sophia herself, among other Gods known as Aeons, emanated from a God-force that is transcendant and ultimate, beyond human comprehension.
That would be that same as this:elohim(semi-plural)"god",in the same way that group,church,coven and family refers to one entity but with more than one member.This word is translated God in Genesis and gods in other places.
Elohim being the God force and then the members of Elohim being more than one.

[auryn]

Well, not really the same, inasmuch as Aset isn't the same as Netjer - Aset is a name, she happens to be one of the Netjer. Sophia is also considered by some "the word" or "wisdom", however when I use the term I'm referring to myths you don't find in the Bible. However, you have a point too - Gnosticism isn't totally removed Christianity, despite that you won't find much of the Gnostic literature in the Bible - the Gnostic literature is largely codices and books that were not included in the Bible such as the Nag Hammadhi library and the Gospels of Thomas and Mary.

The form of Christianity that we know commonly became popular with the ruling of Emperor Constantine. The story goes that, while he himself was Pagan, he had a dream (or saw a vision) he believed was brought by Jesus, and converted the empire to Christianity to unite his army in battle. You can Google emperor Constantine and Christianity to find more info, here are some links to start you off

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/legitimization.html
http://www.request.org.uk/main/history/romans/constantine.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_of_the_Roman_Empire
http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/EastEurope/ConstantineConverts.html

Keep in mind too - the Bible was written by people, and though they believed it was divinely inspired by God, it was also interpreted and re-interpreted by people. And I don't just mean people - I mean men who were in power and wanted more power and prosperity and could use Christianity to force it from people. It's common knowledge that there are other gospels and literature not included in the Bible because they threaten beliefs that would've enabled these men to maintain power and prosperity.

[Kern]

Well, not really the same, inasmuch as Aset isn't the same as Netjer - Aset is a name, she happens to be one of the Netjer. .

Thats not the same thing either.......

Elohim means god(semi plural meaning more than one member but only one as in church,group and family).Just like Netjer....

Elohim was not the name of a god;while Aset was the name for an individual deity of the gods(netjer),Elohim means god or gods,because its semi plural and is used in other places when referring to pagan gods..

Sophia and the Ruarch(spirit) could be considered as aspects of the Elohim(see the definition again if needed).Just like Aset was a member of the Netjer...

[auryn]

Uh yep, that's what I was saying. Aset "isn't the same" as Netjer, just like Sophia "isn't the same" as Elohim.

Rain - In fact, Sophia herself, among other Gods known as Aeons, emanated from a God-force that is transcendant and ultimate, beyond human comprehension.

Kern - That would be that same as this {definition of elohim}

I see now when you said "that" you were referring to the ultimate transcendent divine I mentioned, not Sophia, yes? So I misinterpreted which part you were referring to. I think we agree, just I misread your "that" :)

[Morr]

I don't think the goddess vanished in christian countries until the Reformation...and she never vanished from much of the world. The Hebrews of the Bible were surrounded by polytheistic cultures, as were the Jews and early Christians of the New Testament. Though paganism was officially outlawed by Constantine it didn't vanish. There are documented histories of non-Christian cultures in western Europe until the 12th century CE and into the 15th century CE is eastern Europe (specifically Latvia and Lithuania). By the time western Europe was nominally Catholic there were heretics in Savoy and Provence who worhipped a goddess--at least, the Catholic church's propaganda said they did. Since almost nothing of what the Cathars themselves wrote survives, we are forced to take the church's word for it. And of course the Catholic church itself had the cult of Mary and of the saints, which some people still say is goddess worshipping polytheism in disguise.



1) The Writings mentioned in the original post (genisis, proverbs, jeramiah) has nothing to do with any Christian states at all. These are Hebrew/Jewish writings.
2) Constantine did *NOT* outlaw Polytheistic religions/cults in the Empire. He simply made Christianity a legal religion in the Empire. Up till 313AD - it was illegal, and was prosecuted. Emparor Theodosius the 1st made Christianity/Catholicism as the Official Religion of the Empire in 391AD, and his son Theodosius the 2nd worked on getting this order his Father had set out - really be followed by all citizens of the Empire. Later on Clovis King of the Marovingian Line of Kings accepted Catholicism and converted from Arian Christianity into Catholicism, and on December 25th 492AD baptized in France (I forget the name of the city, I dont think it was Paris) and following that - all the conquests he made along western Europe have expanded Christianity (all citizens of the conquered areas were forced to convert to Catholicism).

What you said makes since,but I meant why did the female deity die out or become hated within the Bible and the Hebrew beliefs,not from paganism and the world.....The Bible condemns the worship of the Queen of Heaven and evidence shows there was a female presence from the scriptures that I quoted.

The Jewish belief doesnt hate or condem the Female Divinity. Just take a look at Kabbalah - It is BASED on the basic belief that Divine is half male and half female.

Shekhina - Is the Jewish Holy Spirit. It is believed that she is the one who was residing in the Great Temples in Jerusalem - She is the mediator between Y-H-V-H & the Jewish People. Her Union with the Jewish People is known as "Y-H-V-H's Bride". Hence - The Union of Shekhina with the Jewish people completes Y-H-V-H and supposedly this union will be at its perfection when the Kingdom of God comes - The Divine Jerusalem - And after the Ressurection of the Dead this Union will be complete - Paradise. As it was in the days of Adam & Eve (Before the fall).

If you take a look at the Song of Songs and in Psalms, there ARE songs & hymns in honor of Shekhina/Wisdom. She is refered as female and as being acient and part of Y-H-V-H.

Kabbahlal acknowleges her more then the strict Orthodox Judaism.

Its interesting to note that Shabat is viewed as Female. She is known as "Shabat Hakdosha" - The Holy Shabat. Or as "Shabat Hamalka" - Shabat The Queen.

[Kern]

The Jewish belief doesnt hate or condem the Female Divinity. Just take a look at Kabbalah - It is BASED on the basic belief that Divine is half male and half female.

Shekhina - Is the Jewish Holy Spirit. It is believed that she is the one who was residing in the Great Temples in Jerusalem - She is the mediator between Y-H-V-H & the Jewish People. Her Union with the Jewish People is known as "Y-H-V-H's Bride". Hence - The Union of Shekhina with the Jewish people completes Y-H-V-H and supposedly this union will be at its perfection when the Kingdom of God comes - The Divine Jerusalem - And after the Ressurection of the Dead this Union will be complete - Paradise. As it was in the days of Adam & Eve (Before the fall).

If you take a look at the Song of Songs and in Psalms, there ARE songs & hymns in honor of Shekhina/Wisdom. She is refered as female and as being acient and part of Y-H-V-H.

Kabbahlal acknowleges her more then the strict Orthodox Judaism.

Its interesting to note that Shabat is viewed as Female. She is known as "Shabat Hakdosha" - The Holy Shabat. Or as "Shabat Hamalka" - Shabat The Queen.

Cool,You see I dont know any thing about Qabbala so I didnt know this.Very Interesting.
Yet the OLD Testement still condemns the worship of the Queen of Heaven and any other gods besides the one known as Y-H-V-H.That includes the worship of a female deity.

[Morr]

Cool,You see I dont know any thing about Qabbala so I didnt know this.Very Interesting.
Yet the OLD Testement still condemns the worship of the Queen of Heaven and any other gods besides the one known as Y-H-V-H.That includes the worship of a female deity.

you do realize that the term "queen of heaven" is originally refered to the Egyptian Goddess - Isis.

But I never encountered the OT specifically saying that phrase (ie - "queen of heaven") in ANY regards to any Goddess or Divinity.

And as I've said the Orthodox Judaism = Shekhina/the Female Jewish Divinity is viewed as PART of Y-H-V-H, NOT as a totally seperate Goddess.

[Kern]

you do realize that the term "queen of heaven" is originally refered to the Egyptian Goddess - Isis.

But I never encountered the OT specifically saying that phrase (ie - "queen of heaven") in ANY regards to any Goddess or Divinity.

And as I've said the Orthodox Judaism = Shekhina/the Female Jewish Divinity is viewed as PART of Y-H-V-H, NOT as a totally seperate Goddess.
Yeah I knew that Isis was referred to as the Queen of Heaven and so was the goddess Ashtarte in other places in the bible,cant recall exactly where though.
Jeremiah 44:16-19 and it mentions they were in Egypt so they were probably worshipping Isis. :smile:

[Kern]

Uh yep, that's what I was saying. Aset "isn't the same" as Netjer, just like Sophia "isn't the same" as Elohim.



I see now when you said "that" you were referring to the ultimate transcendent divine I mentioned, not Sophia, yes? So I misinterpreted which part you were referring to. I think we agree, just I misread your "that" :)
Agreeed! :achug:

[Asthmorte]

Hebrew:
ruarch(feminine Gender)"spirit"
elohim(semi-plural)"god",in the same way that group,church,coven and family refers to one entity but with more than one member.This word is translated God in Genesis and gods in other places.
Genesis 1:26,27 says "Let us make man in our image" and then says "so(he isnt in the original Hebrew)made them both man and woman.
Proverbs 8:22-36 speaks of a female spirit
Jeremiah 44:17-19 speaks of a "Queen of Heaven".

So why did the female deity stop existing or what made her become so bad that it was forbidden to worship her? Just was wondering!


catholics

[Kern]

catholics
Catholics didnt exist when the Jews and the God of the OT done away with a goddess or any other deities.

[lightdragon]

Catholics didnt exist when the Jews and the God of the OT done away with a goddess or any other deities.
I have to agree with Kern here

[EclecticDream]

Actually, depending on the branch of Judaism, there are Jews who do believe that God is both Male and Female, based on the passages that were listed in the original post. My SO is a reform Jew and he ascribes to the belief that God is dual-gendered.

I'm not entirely sure why things started to change as far as belief in a female-oriented God goes. Probably because the God of the Bible is more often called "he" than "she" and it comes down to translations and interpretations.

[Djinn]

2) Constantine did *NOT* outlaw Polytheistic religions/cults in the Empire. He simply made Christianity a legal religion in the Empire. Up till 313AD - it was illegal, and was prosecuted. Emparor Theodosius the 1st made Christianity/Catholicism as the Official Religion of the Empire in 391AD, and his son Theodosius the 2nd worked on getting this order his Father had set out - really be followed by all citizens of the Empire. Later on Clovis King of the Marovingian Line of Kings accepted Catholicism and converted from Arian Christianity into Catholicism, and on December 25th 492AD baptized in France (I forget the name of the city, I dont think it was Paris) and following that - all the conquests he made along western Europe have expanded Christianity (all citizens of the conquered areas were forced to convert to Catholicism).

I stand corrected about Constintine. Thank you.

I think Clovis was baptised at Rheims...at least, the picture of his baptism is there. I'm not sure I follow your train of thought from Constintine to Clovis. Can you explain for me?

[Moriquenya]

So why did the female deity stop existing or what made her become so bad that it was forbidden to worship her? Just was wondering!

Men. Insecure, power hungry, men wanting to have absolute domination and control over women and the Christian church. The feminine aspect of the divine was intentionally discredited by the efforts of petty men with less than godly agendas. Omission and villification are two popular tools employed to disenfranchise and disempower women and their contributions.