Christian witches?

[ragnarok0mega]

heres an interesting tought, does anyone out there believe in christ and god but also practice magick?

[Faerin]

There are quite a few! Take a look at the "Paths" forum as well as "Circle Teaching at Mystic Wicks -ChristoPaganism & Christian Witchcraft" and you can learn a lot about these views :)

[ragnarok0mega]

awsome thanks :)

[Faerin]

Oh, and a lot of us do believe in God, myself included. I also believe in a Goddess and that there are multiple aspects of The One that manifests itself in different Gods and Goddesses. We have a forum about that too called "Gods and Goddesses". Hope you find some answers :)

[Mab]

oh, honey! There are lots of us about. I'm a Christian & I practice magic.....and Aine of the Fae has a class in the Circle of Teaching on this very thing!

[IvyWitch]

heres an interesting tought, does anyone out there believe in christ and god but also practice magick?

Yes. Try doing a search, there are a lot of threads about it.

[ragnarok0mega]

great :D i wasant sure, i think that a christian witch would possibly be the easiest way to describe myself haha, thanks for opening my eyes everyone :) ill have to look up on this some more

[charmedkisses1]

If you need anything just p.m. me! I have alot of great links for ya.

[Kaylana]

Great post. I looking foward to reading it. I personally don't understand the whole Christian/magick thing. I understand that Pagan's are open to the idea, I'm not sure that Christians are. (I have nothing againist it, I just don't understand it.)

[CleftOfLight]

lots of christain witches, I like the teachings of jesus myself,they can be taking as literal or mystical thats wh I like his teachings.

[Holly Ariadna]

Yup, I'm a Catholic witch.

[arctic splash]

I used to consider myself a Christian, but I was also interested in astral projection, altered states of consciousness, magic, everything like that. One girl tried to tell me that trance states were Satan's realm, and that it wasn't good for me to be interested in stuff like that. I never bought into that, and I've never gotten along too well with that type of Christian. I understand that some Christians might be scared off by this stuff, but it doesn't have to be so.

As a Christian, I saw the world as full of so many amazing things that were beyond all comprehension. The world was full of magic for me since I was very young, and although at first that manifested in an interest in science, soon I found that it wasn't limited to that realm. I've always believed that everything is possible and the more I learn about magic and the occult, among other things, the more I see this to be true. There is so much we don't know, so many ways to learn about the world -- why does it have to be limited to a few accepted ways of doing things? Why should we be limited, why shouldn't we express an interest in magic? I went, and I still go by the Biblical maxim, "You will know them by their fruits," and I never saw the fruits of magic or altered states as rotten. Based on that Christian maxim, rather, I'd say that much or most of what I found in Christianity was rotten. I know Jesus won't mind my saying that. :)

I love Jesus, and based on the gospels, I think that, being pagan, he's more likely to see me as a true Christian. ;)

[AlphaOmega]

to me its always been hard to understand how paganism and christianity can fit together...while christians belive in satan....and how the bible says not to practice witchcraft/magick...even though there are some of us who do not use magick

[WingedTigerChild]

heres an interesting tought, does anyone out there believe in Christ and god but also practice magick?
Yes, but I believe that all of the prophets and gods of religion throughout history have something to teach us, and not just Christ alone. I believe he was a "saviour" in the sense that he brought about a revolution of sorts, which encouraged peace and tolerance, as well as the roles of women outside of mother and houewife. (irregardless of how some interpret his message).

[PoisonIvy]

There's only one problem. In the King James version of the Bible it says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and "Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me." I was brought up Christian,but I have been following the path of the kitchen witch. So can someone tell me how one can follow the rules of the Christian God (one god who says kill the witches) and be a Witch who worships multiple Gods/Goddesses? I'm not trying to make anyone angry,I just don't understand how you could be both things at once when they contradict each other like that!

[Calen]

I always thought that in Biblical times, the term 'witch' referred more to someone who worked with poisons. I could be wrong, but I always thought that's what they were referring to in the Bible, and them being opposed to people who poison others makes sense.
As for 'thou shalt have no other Gods before me', I always thought that meant more that you will not worship say, other humans (who are fallible) or wealth (which can't really help you spiritually) but to put God foremost in your life.
I know a lot of people, maybe even the majority of Christians might interpret these things very differently, but this is what makes sense to me, and what I go by.

[PoisonIvy]

You could be right. I guess it all depends on what denomination of Christianity one was raised with,but my family brought me up as a Southern Baptist. Need I say more? My mother freaks out about anyone mentioning Saints also. That's why it's not so bad in the "broom closet" if ya know what I mean!

[misschief]

there are a bunch of christian witches who are members here. magic isn't affiliated with any religion.. it's just magic.. i'm sure it's not the favorable way to many christian churches,, but who cares. i think it's great.

[PoisonIvy]

I agree LadyLeo,I just wish my family did! I was just wondering what people thought.

[Sybill]

I'm christian & I also belive in magic and i want to practice it.... For this reason i feel split in two and i don't knox how to make suit the both part of me. Anyone can give me an advise? you can also send me private messages!!! Hope have a little help!!

;-)

[SkySilver]

I used to consider myself a Christian, but I was also interested in astral projection, altered states of consciousness, magic, everything like that. One girl tried to tell me that trance states were Satan's realm, and that it wasn't good for me to be interested in stuff like that. I never bought into that, and I've never gotten along too well with that type of Christian. I understand that some Christians might be scared off by this stuff, but it doesn't have to be so.

As a Christian, I saw the world as full of so many amazing things that were beyond all comprehension. The world was full of magic for me since I was very young, and although at first that manifested in an interest in science, soon I found that it wasn't limited to that realm. I've always believed that everything is possible and the more I learn about magic and the occult, among other things, the more I see this to be true. There is so much we don't know, so many ways to learn about the world -- why does it have to be limited to a few accepted ways of doing things? Why should we be limited, why shouldn't we express an interest in magic? I went, and I still go by the Biblical maxim, "You will know them by their fruits," and I never saw the fruits of magic or altered states as rotten. Based on that Christian maxim, rather, I'd say that much or most of what I found in Christianity was rotten. I know Jesus won't mind my saying that. :)

I love Jesus, and based on the gospels, I think that, being pagan, he's more likely to see me as a true Christian. ;)

Wow, you explained this so well. I can understand completely what you're saying here. Thanks for sharing that with us. :clapping:

[arctic splash]

Wow, you explained this so well. I can understand completely what you're saying here. Thanks for sharing that with us. :clapping:

Oh, thank you so much! :colorful:

[raminda]

Oh that's quite interesting. I also think that's a good explanation, I've never read anything on this topic before but by the name it was hard for me to imagine what exactly people of this path believed.

[Mab]

check out the class in the Circle of Teaching. Aine of the Fae does an excellent job, and the class members discuss their own personal take on this path.

[Athene]

There's only one problem. In the King James version of the Bible it says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and "Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me."

Blessings,

I am a Christian witch and have been for many years. There are more of us than you might realise. *wink*

There are definitely ways in which Christianity and being a witch do not work together. What it comes down to is how you interpret the Bible, your faith and your path.

As far as scripture is concerned, so much is mistranslation. You might like to read my own articles on this: www.christianwitch.net
I still have much to add to the site so if you're a Christian witch, or interested, you might like to subscribe to the newsletter to get updates.

I appreciate that labels can be used in an infinite number of ways. However, I personally believe that if you are going to call yourself a Christian anything, then you are saying that you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, believe in the Christian God, YHVH, and the Bible as inspired by God.

If you are going to start taking only the bits you like from the Bible, or seeing Christ as a pagan god, then this is perfectly fine for you. However, I wouldn't say that you're a Christian. Any more than I am a Buddhist because I enjoy and believe some concepts from Buddhism.

I know some would disagree with me, of course that's fine and natural. This is my opinion and belief.

If you are a Christian but have felt for some time that you are drawn to nature in a way that most Christians don't seem to understand...
If you are a Christian but believe that the powers that Christ displayed are available to all of us....
If you have an affinity with the planets, numbers, crystals, cards, and see their link to the divine...

Then you might already be a Christian witch. You just need to be shown that it isn't 'wrong'.

In Godde

[SkySilver]

Thanks for sharing your views. I put your website in my favorites. ;)

[Eryck]

I have always felt that God is a lot more liberal and understanding than the Church would have one believe.

And I have never been totally comfortable with the concept of God only showing His will in a small patch of land in the Middle East, while ignoring the rest of the globe.

For me-it doesn't matter if one speaks of God, Yaweh, Jehovah, Allah, The Great Spirit, Ra, The Great Eagle, etc., it is ALL God. Whether one thinks of He, She, It, They, doesn't matter. It is still the same Supreme Entity. This, of course, is dependant on one even having a belief in such a Being. I know lot of folks that simply refer to a Higher Power-without feeling an actual embodiment of the Power.

I started as a Catholic-but quickly saw the hype for what it is. One group of ego-driven men who quickly grabbed control by claiming to really know who God was. And they had the best PR-so it worked.

So I draw off of some Christian doctrine-but also some paganism, Wiccan, and Native American spiritualism.

[Sybill]

Me also! I found your website very interesting! thanks for sharing!

[Sybill]

"For me-it doesn't matter if one speaks of God, Yaweh, Jehovah, Allah, The Great Spirit, Ra, The Great Eagle, etc., it is ALL God. Whether one thinks of He, She, It, They, doesn't matter. It is still the same Supreme Entity."

I agree with you, loki1849! It doesn't matter the name one give to God, for me is something ethernal, an energy, an infinitive love!

[AuntBooPeaceFrog]

I was listening to a friend's Fleetwood Mac cd as I perused this post...I was thinking, "Hey, this is the kind of thing I've been looking for info on, but hadn't found until today...I thought I was making up my own little path...and just at that moment "You Can Go Your Own Way" came on...:hehehe:
Blessings,

I am a Christian witch and have been for many years. There are more of us than you might realise. *wink*

There are definitely ways in which Christianity and being a witch do not work together. What it comes down to is how you interpret the Bible, your faith and your path.

As far as scripture is concerned, so much is mistranslation. You might like to read my own articles on this: www.christianwitch.net
I still have much to add to the site so if you're a Christian witch, or interested, you might like to subscribe to the newsletter to get updates.

I appreciate that labels can be used in an infinite number of ways. However, I personally believe that if you are going to call yourself a Christian anything, then you are saying that you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, believe in the Christian God, YHVH, and the Bible as inspired by God.

If you are going to start taking only the bits you like from the Bible, or seeing Christ as a pagan god, then this is perfectly fine for you. However, I wouldn't say that you're a Christian. Any more than I am a Buddhist because I enjoy and believe some concepts from Buddhism.

I know some would disagree with me, of course that's fine and natural. This is my opinion and belief.

If you are a Christian but have felt for some time that you are drawn to nature in a way that most Christians don't seem to understand...
If you are a Christian but believe that the powers that Christ displayed are available to all of us....
If you have an affinity with the planets, numbers, crystals, cards, and see their link to the divine...

Then you might already be a Christian witch. You just need to be shown that it isn't 'wrong'.

In Godde

[gurlygurl2004]

I believe in Jesus but not in a Christian way though, I'm still not sure if I count as a Christian witch.

[Athene]

And I have never been totally comfortable with the concept of God only showing His will in a small patch of land in the Middle East, while ignoring the rest of the globe.

For me-it doesn't matter if one speaks of God, Yaweh, Jehovah, Allah, The Great Spirit, Ra, The Great Eagle, etc., it is ALL God. Whether one thinks of He, She, It, They, doesn't matter. It is still the same Supreme Entity. This, of course, is dependant on one even having a belief in such a Being. I know lot of folks that simply refer to a Higher Power-without feeling an actual embodiment of the Power.

Blessings,

There are some Christians who believe that Christ travelled to other areas.

As far as the Supreme Being: I believe that there is more than one path to Godde.

However, we should never be confused by thinking that all religions mean the same thing. There are very different doctrines and beliefs for each system and if you are a Hindu you and I do not believe in the same things. If we are both open and believe that ultimately we worship the same Almighty, then that's great. But we follow very different paths.

If you decide to take a label on for yourself, it should be for a viable reason and should make sense. I call myself a Christian because I have decided that this is the most comfortable path, for me, to reach Godde. However, this doesn't make me the same as all Christians!

It might not matter in the 'big picture' what you call Godde, but it matters on your chosen path, and it matters if you take a label. I stated that IF you are going to call yourself a Christian, then this means that you believe in YHVH. This is the name of God in our Bible. If you are a witch you likely appreciate the power of words. Words are magical.

That I call Godde YHVH, does matter. That I acknowledge that my brother or sister calls their Godde Allah is showing respect for their path.
But that's my philosophy. I do not believe in a great melting pot of the world: a mixed salad is more to my liking. *wink*
Godde has given us diversity and I respect and am joyful for that.

loki, you also mentioned that you turned away from Catholicism. I know of Christians that have turned away from Christianity for reasons similar to your own: dissatisfaction with the system. I turned away from established churches many years ago for the same reason. Thing is, the established church has little to do with the very fundamentals of Christianity.

I am always grateful for these wonderful forums, as they have given Christians who are beginning to question their system and path, a chance to discover that Christianity is much more than what they have been led to believe.

blessed in Godde

[Athene]

I believe in Jesus but not in a Christian way though, I'm still not sure if I count as a Christian witch.


I would recommend reading the Christo-Pagan threads.

Some who consider themselves Pagan first and foremost, believe in Jesus. They might believe that He existed and is a great sage. Some might believe he is a god, one of many gods out there. But they generally acknowledge that He did exist and had something important to teach us.

A Christian would believe that Jesus is our access to Godde. That's why we call ourselves Christian. Our faith centres in Christ.

Whether you believe that he is the only way, was the son of god or the exclusive son of god, that is a theological question with which Christians can differ.

"I am the way the truth and the life; no person cometh unto the Father but by me."
- John 14:6

But does that have to be on earth, or ultimately at some point? :)

I do have planned lots of articles on salvation and other theological questions that are very unorthodox, but believed by many Christians.
If you signed up for the newsletter, you'll be updated when they're added.

blessings

[Eryck]

You made some very valid clarifications, Athene. I would like to elaborate further on one thing, though. I did say that whatever name is invoked does not matter for me personally. But it does matter for the individual. So-you are right-it is important. I was just saying that in my own eyes there is no distinction because I do not believe there are a mutiltude of sources-just a variety of names and interpretations. But personally, I choose to believe in a single Ultimate Source of eveything. As I said-it can be He, She, It , or They. For myself-it is all the same.

I think we also agree that part of being open to these things is in allowing every individual to interpret the data the best way that he or she can. So I am willing to accept anyones worship of whatever they choose to call their Higher Power. If one person says they worship Allah, the next Jehovah, and the next the Spirit In The Sky-I accept all of their interpretations as being relevant. For me personally, they all mean the same Being. But this is just my own view. Not more right or wrong. Just my own. And I am always open to further modification of my own views. It might sound like a cop out-but I honestly think that everyone is correct-no matter what they believe. None of it is wrong, and all of it is right. Now-how Man has chosen to interpret what actually is The Truth-that is another matter entirely-which gets back to why I left the Catholic faith. Not enough truth-and too much ego-to be totally correct in my eyes.

And one more point you made, Athene. I also agree that this is a great medium to further explore the path. I thoroughly enjoy learning from all of you here. It really broadens my understanding of The Universe! :tongueout

Blessings

[Athene]

I was approaching the subject of names in general, because it's an interesting subject, but it's great that you and I agree. :)


And I am always open to further modification of my own views. It might sound like a cop out-but I honestly think that everyone is correct-no matter what they believe.


I don't believe that it's a cop-out. Imho, if we stop modifying our ideas, seeking to learn, to accept that we may be incorrect, to question ourselves, then we stop living our divine potential.


how Man has chosen to interpret what actually is The Truth-that is another matter entirely-which gets back to why I left the Catholic faith. Not enough truth-and too much ego-to be totally correct in my eyes.

I don't want to change the topic of this thread, but I am interested in your story. Are you able to start a thread entitled, 'Why I left the Catholic church?' :D

I was brought up in a Catholic school, and turned away from the church when about 12 years of age. It's an interesting topic but I wouldn't want it to descend into anti-Catholics.

be blessed

[Eryck]

Are you able to start a thread entitled, 'Why I left the Catholic church?'

You made me chuckle, Athene. :crazylaug

I can only imagine what responses such a thread would bring! Not a bad idea, though-and I agree-not to highjack this thread at all.

[Elderbush]

But personally, I choose to believe in a single Ultimate Source of eveything. As I said-it can be He, She, It , or They. For myself-it is all the same.

It might sound like a cop out-but I honestly think that everyone is correct-no matter what they believe. None of it is wrong, and all of it is right.

Blessings

(I hope I'm doing this right!) I was interested in these two statements and more elaboration of them. I don't believe that all gods are the same. I'm a confirmed polytheist perferring to believe that everyone is worshipping the god(s) they believe they are worshipping. Or are you saying that all the gods exist independently but have sprung from the same source?

I also believe that there is no "correct" religion, simply a personal answer as to what is right for each person and since all of us are different, the answer is going to reflect that. I do however feel that some people are flat wrong when they include murdering or otherwise harming others because they are not worshipping the "right" god.

[Eryck]

(I hope I'm doing this right!) I was interested in these two statements and more elaboration of them. I don't believe that all gods are the same. I'm a confirmed polytheist perferring to believe that everyone is worshipping the god(s) they believe they are worshipping. Or are you saying that all the gods exist independently but have sprung from the same source?

Fear not-you did it right! :fprtyman4

Try to understand-I am only speaking for what works for me personally. I am, in no way, suggesting that I have "the right answer". My personal view is that The Almighty-whatever He, She, It, or They may be-chose to reveal Himself/Herself/Itself/Themselves to the many different people of this planet according to what might make the most sense to each different group of people. Of course, there is a lot of room to be very subjective in this regard. I can only tell you what works for me. Like auto makers like to say: "your milage may vary".

Again-consider the distinctions I have listed. He-meaning Him. She-meaning Her. It-meaning whatever It may be. And They-meaning One of Many-and Many of One. Which really means that I am open to God being as One, and as Many. How they are tied together exactly, I do not know. But I choose to believe that it is all the same. Yet again-just my personal beliefs.

[AugustFirst]

I believe in Jesus but not in a Christian way though, I'm still not sure if I count as a Christian witch.
Yeah, me too. My problem, my opinion, is he isn't the only way to God although in the Bible it states that his way is a narrow road. (if I remember correctly) I am still abit confused by all of this. It is easy to add Goddess when you pray to God. I am having trouble with the whole Jesus being my savior thing.

[Ninjakitten]

I
"I am the way the truth and the life; no person cometh unto the Father but by me."
- John 14:6




What this means to some of us who believe in Christ as savior yet follow other paths differs at times as well. Did it mean you have to go to church, insert the disclaimer in a prayer that "this prayer is in Christ's name", and do things as the Christian churches say to do them? For me, this means that coming to the Diety is only possible when the ways of the Christ are in your heart. Would you heal someone if you had the power? Would you cure blindness by spitting into the soil and spreading it on a blind man's eyes if you knew it would work? Would you cure hunger in your area if you could turn a couple of fish and a loaf of bread into thousands? Would you die, so that generally good people thoughout history can, in their imperfect selves, be reconciled and compatible with the perfect Divine? I think the way the Christian church addresses this issue is shallow and simplistic, and even Christ himself said "not all who call me Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven" (I can't remember what passage that is, though). That tells me that Christ needs to be in your heart and your spirit, not in the synapses of your brain, or the forefront of your mind in words and verbage made by humans.
By the way, Athene, I love your website! It's a very informative one and helps thinking Christian minds to grow (in my opinion).

[Athene]

I am still abit confused by all of this. It is easy to add Goddess when you pray to God. I am having trouble with the whole Jesus being my savior thing.

I don't blame you for being confused! We have been bombarded with church doctrine for centuries. Whole authorities got together to decide what the Bible said, who Jesus was, if the Godhead was a trinity and so on. Denominations exist because we can't all agree. Despite millions of Christians feeling uncomfortable with many 'teachings', we struggle to question the church or tradition.

What we're left with is people turning away from the faith, whereas they probably would have been satisfied with turning away from their church. And we have Christians who are holding on to the faith but feeling confused and unsatisfied.

I have found that the closer I walk towards the Bible and further away from church doctrine, the more I am satisfied. I have felt horrified at some teachings and believed that it was my own shortsighted human nature and evil leading me away. Once I sat down with The Book, and Christ in my heart, my eyes were opened.

I can't tell you that you will be satisfied, what I can say, with much Love, is that if you look for a personal relationship with Godde, as opposed to a church relationship, you will be greatly surprised and over-joyed.

Disclaimer: I am not anti-church, I am anti unscriptural doctrine. :)


Ninjakitten,
I enjoyed your custom title, made me chuckle. :D

I totally agree with:

For me, this means that coming to the Diety is only possible when the ways of the Christ are in your heart.

Glad you're enjoying my site. I hope to bring as much information possible that's relevant to the Christian witch. It is a glorious path.

I have added a moon article today that some of you might be interested in:
The Christian Moon (http://www.christianwitchery.bravehost.com/cwnature3.htm)

Don't forget, to get regular updates, subscribe to the newsletter. (bottom of homepage)

Blessings for your day

[Morning Star]

Yeah, me too. My problem, my opinion, is he isn't the only way to God although in the Bible it states that his way is a narrow road. (if I remember correctly) I am still abit confused by all of this. It is easy to add Goddess when you pray to God. I am having trouble with the whole Jesus being my savior thing.

The important thing to remember is that you are not in need of salvation and the only person that can help you is you. Remember, the gods will give you strength when you need it, your spells will encourage you, but it is you, in the end, that is the master of your fate and destiny. Salvation is a terrible concept. Listen to your instincts, follow your intuitions, fulfill your desires...laugh, dream, love. That is all the saving you'll ever need. ;)

[Athene]

Salvation is a terrible concept.

Blessings Morning Star,

I would say, that it depends on your definition/understanding of the term 'salvation'. For me, it is a beautiful concept.

If I'm drowning and you jump in and save me, I would be extremely grateful.
If, however I decide in my mind that having that need in the first place was a weakness of character, I would view the saving as a terrible thing.

The topic is huge and I look forward to covering it on my site.

[Morning Star]

Ah yes. :) But, we are not born drowning. We do not need salvation for being human any more than a rat needs salvation for being a rat, or a fish for being a fish.

[Athene]

But, we are not born drowning.

Hello again :)

So do you believe that we are all born looking towards Godde? Or do you think that some of us push Godde away?

[Gwynna Star]

I have always felt that God is a lot more liberal and understanding than the Church would have one believe..


My thoughts are similar as well... Thanks for posting :wave:

[Morning Star]

Hello again :)

So do you believe that we are all born looking towards Godde? Or do you think that some of us push Godde away?

I think people are taught what they believe. What is in the heart is greater than our religious concepts and dogmatic languages. Men make the gods what they are and what they mean; meanwhile we all have Life in us, we all seek to make it mean something. If anything it is that, not God, we turn away from.

[Gypsy Wyccan]

to me its always been hard to understand how paganism and christianity can fit together...while christians belive in satan....and how the bible says not to practice witchcraft/magick...even though there are some of us who do not use magick

While I did not write the first book on Jesus and the Lost Goddess, the Gnostic Gospels, etc. I was the first to get a book on the market in July 2003 reinstating the Christian Goddess along side Jesus/God and apply it to Wicca. I spent approximately 5 years with the Christian Wicca e-list at Yahoo groups and our archives show how we talked out every ritual and even what to call our hybrid path!! "Holy Wicca" - LOL!! - was even a consideration because we all dreaded the harassment of using the term Christian Wiccan. So I shifted the name of the book to Trinitarian Wicca, acknowledging all of the trinities in religion and set up the rituals to acknowledge the Father, the Mother, and the Child.

However, when I started submitting my book to publishers - I started realizing that I could not get away from the term "Christian Wicca" because it had become a descriptive - a working title that solidified! I would call a publisher and ask if they received my manuscript - "Trinitarian Wicca?" I would give my name, what the cover looked like, etc. Without fail, I would get "oh the Christian Wicca book?" . . . So, I incorporated the two into the title: a generalization - Christian Wicca, then Trinitarian Tradition, the tradition I was outlining which just happened to be for Christians.

In that book, I joked (but not really) that I really wished I could take full credit for inventing Christian Wicca but the Catholic Church beat me to it!! LOL!! Pagans are so quick to say Christians stole all our holy days! Well . . . actually every culture has done that. Stealing is the human way - "wow, that works for them! Why can't we do that? Okay - we'll do that very same thing but we'll call it something different and no body will ever know the difference!!"

For February 2 alone, we have Imbolg/Imbolc, Lupercus, Candlemas, Candelaria, Anagantios, Brigitania, the Festival of Lights, the Vala's Vision, the Lady's Day, the Maiden's Day, the Feast of the Virgin, Disting-tid, St. Bridget's Day, St. Blaize's Day, etc. and America had to get in there too with Groundhog's Day!! All these days were forms of litmus tests - days of purification - days of welcoming the return of the summer sun!!

In a time in the world before the internet, faxes, and cell phones - do you not think that "something larger" caused nations separated by great oceans to celebrate these same Days of Power? I think that is the healthiest way to look at this phenomenon. So what if the Sabbats of old became Marian feasts and celebrations? The point here is that the Goddess always shines through! She finds a way!! She is part of nature, she is part of us and we are all connected. She is Isis, Brigid, Freya, Demeter, Gaia, Inanna, Mary, Hecate, Astarte . . . is all Goddesses not the same Goddess?

Christian Wiccans and Witches think outside the box. Actually, I think - "what box?"

[Gypsy Wyccan]

to me its always been hard to understand how paganism and christianity can fit together...while christians belive in satan....and how the bible says not to practice witchcraft/magick...even though there are some of us who do not use magick

MM - I did want to say that not all Christians believe in Satan, especially the liberal ones. I do believe in evil and I do believe that humanity is capable of terrible things on their own, but some people just need someone or something to blame. You have to understand that those of us who practice Christian Witchcraft or Wicca are not Bible-thumpers. Most of us believe the Bible is not liberal but symbolic. It has been through many hands over the years and who is to say what is the original text and what parts are fudged? Men handled the translation!! Evil humans who are prone to become politicians, lawyers, and mass murderers for God. Are you going to take their word for it? Not I!! :thumbsdow :nuhuh:

Modern Pagans often forget the Magico-religious timeline of the Christian Occult pre-dates Gerald Gardner, Wicca, and his recovery of the Old Religion, especially the European traditions. Gardner himself makes reference to witchcraft and Christianity together in "The Meaning of Witchcraft" - p. 27:

"It is usually said that to be made a witch one must abjure Christianity; this is not true; but they would naturally not receive into their ranks anyone who was a very narrow Christian. They do not think that Jesus was literally the Son of God, but are quite pre-pared to accept that he was one of the Enlightened Ones, or Holy Men. This is the reason why witches do not think they were hypocrites "in time of persecution" for going to church and honouring
Christ, especially as so many of the old Sun-hero myths have been incorporated into Christianity; while others might bow to the Madonna, who is closely akin to their goddess of heaven."

[Mab]

The important thing to remember is that you are not in need of salvation and the only person that can help you is you. Remember, the gods will give you strength when you need it, your spells will encourage you, but it is you, in the end, that is the master of your fate and destiny. Salvation is a terrible concept. Listen to your instincts, follow your intuitions, fulfill your desires...laugh, dream, love. That is all the saving you'll ever need. ;)Um, respectfully---

That may be your belief. But it is not necessarily everyone's, and it is not necessarily fact.

Also, I might point out, just quickly--as I'm sure it's already been covered, but it tends to get forgotten, it seems--

Christian witches are not necessarily combining Christianity with Paganism or Wicca or any specific tradition at all.

Many of us are just Christians that have found a way to broaden our understanding of our faith to incorporate some long-lost ideas & beliefs that have been steam-rolled over by ppl interested in using religion as control, and thus doing things like personalizing God as strictly male, and any practice that would involve personal power or the ability to manipulate energy as "evil awful witchcraft".

[Athene]

Many of us are just Christians that have found a way to broaden our understanding of our faith to incorporate some long-lost ideas & beliefs that have been steam-rolled over by ppl interested in using religion as control, and thus doing things like personalizing God as strictly male, and any practice that would involve personal power or the ability to manipulate energy as "evil awful witchcraft".

Blessings Mab,

I agree with you. :thumbsup:

For me, I would need to say it a little differently (although I think you hint at it and are probably saying it anyway!).
Rather that we have, 'found a way... to incorporate', I see it as rediscovering our faith/religion/spirituality.

Gypsy Wyccan, thanks again (read the other thread) for some great input.

My personal journey has taken me in a different direction from the Goddess concept.
I tend to see the Goddess journey as a natural psycho-social progression similar to the feminist 'equality wars' of the 60's: we go to one extreme to differentiate ourselves from what we oppose.
I tend to believe that the Goddess community will split in years ahead: those that retain gender differences and those that remove gender differences. But of course, that's just my nutty spiritual musings. lol

My own belief is that there is no such thing as goddess. I also don't believe that there is such thing as God (male). The concept of attributing human qualities on divinity are as old as human beings; it's normal and natural. However, I don't believe that they are 'right', although I acknowledge that they feel right for many people.

I believe that Godde encompasses femininity, masculinity and more that has nothing to do with gender. To me, gender is a human necessity, not a divine one.

Another belief I have is that Godde is ultimately One: whatever you choose as your path, we're all headed towards the Ultimate Divine. For this reason, I have never found it a personal spiritual need to find a Goddess (or other gods for that matter). Since Godde is not a male god to me it made the search redundant.

However, I do appreciate that a) many people see/believe in gods and goddesses and b) some people need an obvious gender-assigned divine being to be able to see the different facets of Godde. (that's what we've always done, nothing new there!)

thank you for the wonderful thought-provoking discussions

In Love and Light

[Ninjakitten]

Blessings Mab,

For me, I would need to say it a little differently (although I think you hint at it and are probably saying it anyway!).
Rather that we have, 'found a way... to incorporate', I see it as rediscovering our faith/religion/spirituality.

I believe that Godde encompasses femininity, masculinity and more that has nothing to do with gender. To me, gender is a human necessity, not a divine one.

However, I do appreciate that a) many people see/believe in gods and goddesses and b) some people need an obvious gender-assigned divine being to be able to see the different facets of Godde. (that's what we've always done, nothing new there!)

thank you for the wonderful thought-provoking discussions

In Love and Light


I think this is is an idea that not only many Christian Wiccans and witches believe, but I know of several Christians that are technically fundamentalist that feel this way as well. I personally take my worship and understanding of the masculine and feminine aspects as separate only for acknowledgement and celebration, though I feel both aspects are in the One. I also believe that Jesus was the incarnation of the Diety (both aspects).