Romance, is it dead?

[Acid Halo]

I always hear women complain that there is no Chivalry anymore. Im a romantic so i love doing stuff like that. What is the most romantic thing you have ever done for your partner?

[Secrets Flame]

There's no chivalry any more because women are always trying to do it for themselves.

My friend, she is always complaining that her b/f wants to buy everything for her, like pay for movies, lunch and dinner etc etc. Always wanting to take her places... do romantic things.

They are in a fairly new relationship (6 months), and yet, if they end up married, I bet she will complain that he never does anything "romantic" for her lol.

Chivalry is dead because Guys are too scared to act on their own initiative and actually DO something for a girl.

[Little Willow]

I don't think Romance is dead luv, just changed slightly from what it used to be. Chivalry is a totally different thing. Pulling out chairs, opening doors, walking on the road side. These things are not romance, just common courtesy. Going dutch in a restaurant is more about the fact that women are working and can pay for themselves. Romance is what you make of a situation. I don't care whether Todder pays for a meal or if I pay for the meal, so long as we don't end up washing the dishes, it really doesn't matter. It's his soul talking to me though his lips aren't moving and the electric shock of his touch, even years into our relationship. These to me are romance. Sure, he holds the door open for me, but I do the same for other people. I'm not being romantic, just polite. So ... do I think romance is dead ... no.

Courtesy. I see it in some people, but not in others. I don't think it's instilled in youngsters today, though I have tried with mine. I know they hold doors open for others ... but once again, I think that's more because of politeness and not wanting the door to hit the next person in the face.

[Little Willow]

Forgot to answer the ... what was the most romantic thing.

The most romantic day was actually Christmas day 2000 (yes we do Christmas ... mum would throw a fit). I'd got the veggies prepared the previous evening, the turkey was in the oven. Everything was in order ... glass of wine on the side for me to sip at inbetween jobs. Kids start opening their presents. Not the freeforall you'd expect from kids, but one pressie at a time and not when anyone else is opening ... they're like me, nosey. We like to see what everyones got and we like to make a list of who got what from where so they can do thank you cards. Keeps 'em busy over the holidays. Anyway ... the ritual is this. Kids do pressies in the morning, but leave one or two until gran (my mum) comes. Adults do pressies after dinner is out of the way. Kids dad comes and takes kids for their second lot of pressies over at their other grans house. Evening comes, along with Todder's family, i do a buffet and partying ensues.

Anyway, the kids had opened their presents and were noisily playing in the room. I'd gone to set the table. Walks into the kitchen and Todder's stood staring out the window with tears rolling down his cheek. I thought there was something wrong and being concerned asked him. He said "now't luv ... it's snowing and now the day is just perfect". I didn't know what to say, so smiled and gave him a kiss. I got the biggest hug of my life. That is the moment that I knew our relationship would last forever. It was the nicest thing anyone has ever said, and the warmest thing my heart has ever felt. There have been other moments, but that in particular stands out as the nicest, most romantic, heartfelt moment in my entire life. Him crying because me and my little family have make him so happy.

[morrigen]

Romance, to me, is not the buying of generic bunches of flowers, holding doors and seats, paying for dinners...to me that's just polite courtesies that I might extend to anyone given the right situation. They're nice things, but...

No...romance to me is those things that show the other person is thinking of you in a personal way, remembering thethings that are important to you, looking out for you, listening to you...allowing you to cry on their shoulder, feeling enough trust to cry on yours...

Romance to me is that building of memories and at the same time, futures, and taking the bad in hand with the good.

The most romantic thing my partner has done for me, and I for him, is being there for each other, and knowing that we can always count on each other no matter what.

[Tullip Troll]

it's not dead it's just sleeping...

MheraPai

[Nephthys]

I'm completely the opposite of a romantic person. And so I don't really care if it's dead. Don't think it is though.

[Aelfoak]

To be honest i'm finding it very hard in this day and age to find a woman that likes to be romanced, i think i'm cursed where relationships are concerning or just too nice for my own good.

[Secrets Flame]

I didn't say romance was dead (though it is becoming more so)... but Chivalry is, at it's all the female's fault (lol)

Indeed, I read a thread about the "wussification of men"... and it's so true

[Fane Ayuma]

no it isnt, well not for anyone im seeing anyway, i love doing romantic things, they Rock!!

Most romantic thing i dont know.Theres been lots.Once i filled my girlfriends room with balloon's, rose peatals and teddy bears, i put the a silver chain with a broken heart around the biggest bear.We both wore one half of the heart but i made her side a little bit bigger because she'll always have a bit more of my heart then anyone else.

[Terestai]

It really is hard to be chivalrous anymore, because you never know what sort of reaction your kindness is going to be met with. But I say do it anyway. :smile: I now have a woman who appreciates this sort of thing, and that's priceless.

But always remember... nothing can ruin a first date like an inappropriately-placed dancing banana. :abanana:

[CloakofStars9]

There's no chivalry any more because women are always trying to do it for themselves.


Chivalry is dead because Guys are too scared to act on their own initiative and actually DO something for a girl.

waaaaaaaaaaay not true, I experience some form of chivalry all the time, opening doors for me by complete strangers etc...
plus my man can prove you wrong as well :D

[CloakofStars9]

To be honest i'm finding it very hard in this day and age to find a woman that likes to be romanced, i think i'm cursed where relationships are concerning or just too nice for my own good.

*raises hand* romance is bueno and nice to have for a change, most guys today have no idea how to treat a woman (this is in no way directed towards you, just past experience)

you may be looking in the wrong places dear

[Aelfoak]

*raises hand* romance is bueno and nice to have for a change, most guys today have no idea how to treat a woman (this is in no way directed towards you, just past experience)

you may be looking in the wrong places dear
Tell me about it, i think i'm just meeting the wrong people and i feel something is telling me to wait and not rush until that right person comes along.

[DraconisArcanus]

Just the other day my beloved Aurora brought me flowers for no reason at all. We both do things like that all the time. Just this morning she was frustrated by our daughter so I whipped up a quick omlet for her just so the day started better than it ended last night.
:smoochypo

She is awesome at doing special things too. If you folks PM her enough and post here I'll bet you can get her to tell the tale of the Birthday Scavanger Hunt she did for me. She tells it so much better than me!

Peace!

[Secrets Flame]

OK, so there are some exceptions to the rule (and especially in current relationships as people discover what actually does make others happy)

I always open doors, pull out seats at the table etc for females... it is my own belief that all females should be treated like a princess, until they prove that they don't deserve it, then they are treated with indifference.

However, there are only ever TWO reactions I have ever come across.

The first (and more common one) being total indifference, as though to say "you are a guy, you should be doing this for me because I am superior".

And the other one, is (and I've actually had someone say this to me) "you are a guy, you should not be so sexist in thinking that I can't do it for myself. I'm the superior sex here, I can look out for myself"

And everywhere I look, with chivalry, and romance... I NEVER hear that simplest of words "thankyou". It seems to have disappeared from the vocabulary of the female species.

[Bix]

I really don't think romance is dead...you can make any occasion with your lover romantic, methinks. Chivalry, at least where I live, isn't dead at all. There's cowboy-type guys that go to college with me, and they'll always go and open doors for women. Don't really see the point of them doing that, but that's just me. I open doors for anyone, because, like somebody said before, it's just common courtesy.

The most romantic thing? Well, this one is a bit corny. I leaving college to go home after a particularly stressful day. I get to my car to see all these post-it notes stuck -everywhere- by my boyfriend in my car that say "I love you." It just brightened my day.

I think it's the simple shows of love that make things really and truly romantic.

[CloakofStars9]

OK, so there are some exceptions to the rule (and especially in current relationships as people discover what actually does make others happy)

I always open doors, pull out seats at the table etc for females... it is my own belief that all females should be treated like a princess, until they prove that they don't deserve it, then they are treated with indifference.

However, there are only ever TWO reactions I have ever come across.

The first (and more common one) being total indifference, as though to say "you are a guy, you should be doing this for me because I am superior".

And the other one, is (and I've actually had someone say this to me) "you are a guy, you should not be so sexist in thinking that I can't do it for myself. I'm the superior sex here, I can look out for myself"

And everywhere I look, with chivalry, and romance... I NEVER hear that simplest of words "thankyou". It seems to have disappeared from the vocabulary of the female species.

I am sorry to hear that, I however ALWAYS say thank you, guess it was just the way I was brought up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aelfoak: trust me, it will happen when you least expect it ;)

[DraconisArcanus]

I am sorry to hear that, I however ALWAYS say thank you, guess it was just the way I was brought up

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aelfoak: trust me, it will happen when you least expect it ;)

Even my 10 and 12 tr old boys hold doors for people and will help at the drop of a hat! It must be the way some folks are brought up. I've always tried to tell my boys that being helpful, polite, and doing what was right were the right things to do.

I have yet to have someone get upset at me for holding a door!

Peace.

[Secrets Flame]

I have yet to have someone get upset at me for holding a door!


The sad thing is, I come to expect it from just about everyone I hold a door open for. Strangers, of course, don't (without the rare exception) tell me off, but some of the looks I've been given. *shrugs* That's the feminist movement for ya.

[Gwenhwyfar]

I love having the door held for me, I always say thank you. Im lucky to get a hand bringing in the grocerys these days though.....*sighhhh

[{Tigress}]

Chivalry is not dead, at least not down here in the South. Granted, many women seem to take it for granted and that grates on my nerves, but it's not dead.

As for romance... there are so many. :)

The little things, like hubby making me coffee if he gets up before I do. Or big things, like the day he proposed and came to my office with ring, flowers, and a change of clothes in hand -- the clothes being such a thoughtful gesture so I could change before being taken out to dinner.

And me to him... like sneaking up for a random kiss now and again, or writing a song to him for our wedding or a "love letter" for our anniversary that he has hanging on his wall at work.

[Tsuchimaru]

Romance, to me, is not the buying of generic bunches of flowers, holding doors and seats, paying for dinners...to me that's just polite courtesies that I might extend to anyone given the right situation. They're nice things, but...

No...romance to me is those things that show the other person is thinking of you in a personal way, remembering thethings that are important to you, looking out for you, listening to you...allowing you to cry on their shoulder, feeling enough trust to cry on yours...

Romance to me is that building of memories and at the same time, futures, and taking the bad in hand with the good.

The most romantic thing my partner has done for me, and I for him, is being there for each other, and knowing that we can always count on each other no matter what.

That almost made me cry...:)

I'm a pretty chivalrous guy, actually.....lol.

[Faeawyn]

it's not dead it's just sleeping...

MheraPai
I've always said..."it's not dead, just retired"...meaning that it seems to be fading with our older generation of men. Women have become more independent and self sufficient in this day and age. Men are changing too....Men used to want a women who would make good wife material....cook, clean, take care of her man, loving, kind, gentle. But now...it seems men are more attracted to strong independent women. I'm old school...and altho my husband prefers the newer generation woman....he keeps me around :lol:

[Lady Avalon]

True Story:

I was living in New York and working on Wall St. It had rained quite hard and the streets were flooded. I was looking up and down the street trying to spot an area where I could cross with minimal damage.

Suddenly, I was swooped off my feet, carried across the street and gently put down. The Knight who rescued me was a man I had never met.'

So you see, chilvry is not dead. It is only sleeping.

[Secrets Flame]

But now...it seems men are more attracted to strong independent women.

I have to enlighten you... men are not attracted to that kind of woman... they are SCARED of them... the VAST majority of guys, when thinking about a wife, want someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for... basically, someone who makes them feel more like a man (which and independent woman does not do).

The male population as a whole, has pretty much decided that since a woman is going to be independent, there is no reason to look out for her, and so they are "fair game" to be used up and left by the road-side (both physically and emotionally)...

It's a really sad trend IMO

[Tsuchimaru]

I have to enlighten you... men are not attracted to that kind of woman... they are SCARED of them... the VAST majority of guys, when thinking about a wife, want someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for... basically, someone who makes them feel more like a man (which and independent woman does not do).

The male population as a whole, has pretty much decided that since a woman is going to be independent, there is no reason to look out for her, and so they are "fair game" to be used up and left by the road-side (both physically and emotionally)...

It's a really sad trend IMO

Not I, for one....

[CloakofStars9]

I have to enlighten you... men are not attracted to that kind of woman... they are SCARED of them... the VAST majority of guys, when thinking about a wife, want someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for... basically, someone who makes them feel more like a man (which and independent woman does not do).

The male population as a whole, has pretty much decided that since a woman is going to be independent, there is no reason to look out for her, and so they are "fair game" to be used up and left by the road-side (both physically and emotionally)...

It's a really sad trend IMO

YEP I have been saying that for years, the fact that I AM a strong independant woman is the reason why I haven't dated much, and you know what, I DON'T CARE! I am not a lil girl who needs a man NO SIR and I never will be thank you very much
men who need a tiny lil girl who can't think for herself are pitiful IMO and I don't want a man like that.

[Secrets Flame]

YEP I have been saying that for years, the fact that I AM a strong independant woman is the reason why I haven't dated much, and you know what, I DON'T CARE! I am not a lil girl who needs a man NO SIR and I never will be thank you very much
men who need a tiny lil girl who can't think for herself are pitiful IMO and I don't want a man like that.

there's a rather large difference between a "tiny lil girl who can't think for herself" and a girl who acts like a girl, rather than a guy

[CloakofStars9]

there's a rather large difference between a "tiny lil girl who can't think for herself" and a girl who acts like a girl, rather than a guy
so you are saying that a girl who is independant acts like a GUY? :rolleyes:

[zehava]

I have to enlighten you... men are not attracted to that kind of woman... they are SCARED of them... the VAST majority of guys, when thinking about a wife, want someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for... basically, someone who makes them feel more like a man (which and independent woman does not do).

see, this surprises me. ever since becoming single again a few years ago, almost every man i've dated/talked to has spouted the virtues of the independent, strong, capable woman who supports herself. they always went on about how they weren't interested in supporting/providing for a woman. what the heck is that about? was that some kind of weird test/game guys play?

only ONE of them liked to pamper and provide (without turning me into susie-homemaker, kwim?) actually, one of the sweetest things he did for me was to sneak a care basket into my garage while i was out (he didn't have keys to the house at the time, but knew i left the garage door unlocked in those days - it was virtually empty after all). he never said anything about it - i discovered it later when the kids wanted to ride their bikes... i opened the door to this sweet basket filled with sweet things all set up right in the middle of my dreary empty garage. he lived an hour and a half away... he drove here knowing i wasn't home to leave this surprise for me, drove home again and said nothing until i found it, how sweet is THAT? (and yes, he was the hardest to break up with and we still talk from time to time... if i could find another man like that, life would be great :))

anyway, so your statement... really? i always seem to run across the men who want just the opposite.

-z

[semi]

I like romance and chivalry. I don't care if a woman is strong and independant or the I-need-a-man-to-protect-me type, as long as she's a good person and all that. I'd prefer that a woman be able to stand on her own. The best relationships I've been in have been with women who were as confident and nuts as I am. I dated a woman once who was so submissive she'd walk behind me instead of next to me. I hated that, it drove me crazy. I want a partner, not a slave or a toy.

Anyway, this thread is about romance. When I was engaged me and my fiance saw the movie Capt. Corellis' Mandolin and she loved it. So I bought a mandolin and taught myself how to play it for her. And I'm a musicain so I was actually able to play it.

Another time, in October, we didn't have time to get together to carve pumpkins, an activity that had sentimental value for us. So while she was at work one day I bought as many pumpkins as I could, about 17 of them I think, really nice ones, and I spent the day carving them all and setting them up in the driveway. That night when she came home I left the outside light off so she was greeted by all these candle-lit pumpkins lining the driveway, all 125 feet of it. She was very pleased.

I love doing stuff like that.

[Dove]

First of all ….
There’s a Huge difference in Chivalry, Romance, and just plain “Good Manners”

And isn’t it sad that in this day and age,
Because good manners seem to be something that’s simply fading away …
When we encounter them,
We often mistake them (on a date) for romance!!

What is Romance???
Well to me Romance is a state of being.
It's about taking action on your feelings.

Romance is “love in action”
And it should be a daily, living, growing activity.
It’s communicating by actions, your feelings of attraction/love.

I think romance can be simply soft positive words spoken …
It’s in physical gestures, and tender looks.
It’s giving small gifts that have “intimate” meaning.

Gifts that really mean something!!
Not necessarily expensive, store bought things.
I’m thinking of gifts of “time”
Maybe a poem, or song that you wrote,
Specifically for that special person in your heart.
How about a package of flower seeds,
With a card making a date to plant them together.
It’s picnics in funny / special places.
Making a date to watch the sun come up together.
Making pancakes in the shape of your love’s initials.
Making a box lunch with a special “I Love You” note hidden inside.

LOL … I LOVE Romance!!

Ohhhhh ... all the things that I mentioned are little things I've done.
.. erm .. the most romantic thing I've ever done ... well ...
*whispers*
I'm not tell'n

[LadyTrinity]

The most romantic thing done for me was my fiancee had 5$ to his name and was depressed that he couldnt afford anything.. I told him that his love was more important than any gift he could ever give and he still went out and got me something. He went to the dollar store.. bought a hand ful of fake roses with fake water droplets and he got me a card... sprayed my fav colone of his on them and When I read the card it said he will love me until every last rose dies.. _handclapp I still have them and that was a year back!

[Dove]

I just wanted to add here ....

I Really Love it when a Man opens a door for me.
With “that” oh so simple gesture,
It tells me that he recognizes, and identifies with,
That special “distinct” difference in our sexes.

I think it’s a lovely thing for a man to do.
And I never fail to smile, and say “thank you”

[zehava]

I think it’s a lovely thing for a man to do.
And I never fail to smile, and say “thank you”

ditto :) it was pointed out to me that i get 'goofy' and sometimes do a slight little curtsy when saying thank you and then walking through the door. i never noticed that before it was pointed out to me... they were right :bigredblu

-z

[LadyTrinity]

I just wanted to add here ....

I Really Love it when a Man opens a door for me.
With “that” oh so simple gesture,
It tells me that he recognizes, and identifies with,
That special “distinct” difference in our sexes.

I think it’s a lovely thing for a man to do.
And I never fail to smile, and say “thank you”


I agree.. its the smallest thing that matters alot

[Dusk]

I am more impressed with the little things my husband does for me everyday, than any grand jesture.

Oh, and he likes smart, strong women.

[TaysatWesir]

I live in a crude rude place and romance is dead at least for me nuff said. :wth:

[semi]

Wait, taking notes. Ok.....get plastic roses....love you til they die......ok, got it.

What a great cool thing to do.

[Aidron]

Dead? Not at all. Dying? Very much so. Romance in my eyes is standing on its last legs. Out of all the guys I have dated, not one was ever truly romantic in my eyes.

Some couples are very romantic, and I have seen it for myself. The majority of the world? Not so much.

I've been romantic in the past, before I gave it up entirely. Now I'm much more "If you can't bother to be romantic, neither will I-and if you can't bother, then kiss any chance you may have had with me goodbye." I won't tolerate a relationship without romance, plain and simple. It's not something I enjoy and wish for, it's a requirement. Don't fulfill it and we're through.

Granted, romance is not something you can force, as it is an expression of how one feels. If you cannot muster up any sort of romance, in my eyes you're just not anyone I would want to be with.

I see opportunities all the time for romance-and I think it works best when you as an individual are clever and inventive. For those who aren't, I guess it's boring ole roses and candy for you-which is fine if it makes your partner happy, but personally puts me to sleep.

[Little Willow]

Todd doesn't do flowers, or candy for that matter. It's the spontaneous hugs, the soppy text messages when I'm at work. Clearing ice from my car while in the bath before work not telling me and letting me go out to do it myself, just so I can come straight back in to give him a hug and kiss of thanks. Cleaning the house when I'm in town buying the goddess knows what for the goddess knows who (never me I have to say). It's the little things. I'm not into him buying stuff for me, we don't have much money and what we do have goes on the house, the kids or other people. So it's the little smiles, the stroked face, the hugs. Just knowing we're they're for each other. I could go on and on couldn't I.

As for other people. I really don't know whether romance is dead or alive for them. I think though, that if you're with the right person ... romance will definitely be there. Unless of course you don't like that type of thing.

*damn I'm so soppy sometimes ... think my big white ears and cotton tail need to be put in storage :D*

[Lady Avalon]

Here is a true story that involved my husband:

One day I told my husband the meaning of a pink rose. The red rose is for passion and sex, but a pink rose is the symbol of true and everlasting love. I explained to him that if you want to tell someone that you love them, but can't find the words, present that person with a single pink rose. You offer one rose because you have only one heart to give.

The next day, my husband (at the time we were not married), came home. The first thing through the door was his outstretched had holding a single pink rose.

"I don't want to lose you," he said. Of course I cried.

Romance dead???? I know that it's alive and thriving!!!!!

[Valkie]

nothing that I can remember though I'm sure it's there.

Honestly, I don't care for romance. I'd rather have him around for the little stuff that is important. Tackling me when I'm busy trying to do something, tickling me when I'm pissed (or leaving me alone when I'm pissed... depends what/who I'm pissed about :) ), being able to laugh with me when one of the kids are being goofy. Stuff like that means the world to me, not flowers or suprise dates... but he is a Sag so of coarse he's going to do those too :D but those only happen once and a while. The single rose, a ring for no apparent reason, waking me up in the middle of the night kissing my back (mmmmm, if you don't get this one, read the fetish thread :smoke: ). The last 'suprise date' that he dragged me out to was to get ice cream while the two oldest boys were at school. We just went with the baby and watched the cows (everyone say MOOOOOO)

[~ Monk ~]

But always remember... nothing can ruin a first date like an inappropriately-placed dancing banana. :abanana:
I...must now walk away without saying anything...:p

[CloakofStars9]

I...must now walk away without saying anything...:p

SAY IT! _catroll_

[~ Monk ~]

I have to enlighten you... men are not attracted to that kind of woman... they are SCARED of them... the VAST majority of guys, when thinking about a wife, want someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for... basically, someone who makes them feel more like a man (which and independent woman does not do).

The male population as a whole, has pretty much decided that since a woman is going to be independent, there is no reason to look out for her, and so they are "fair game" to be used up and left by the road-side (both physically and emotionally)...

It's a really sad trend IMOThis assumes that a man pursues a relationship strictly to get a wife. Not true.

If a guy needs "someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for..." to make him feel more like a man - I would say he still has some growing up to do.

Romance isn't dead. It's changed a bit as we have changed, but it's not dead. I see things now as the best of both worlds. Just because a woman is strong and independant doesn't mean she won't enjoy getting flowers, or a card, having a poem written for her.

As for chivalry - it isn't dead either. I think people have just become more rude and don't acknowledge it.

[CloakofStars9]

Can I Get An Amen!

[Aidron]

This assumes that a man pursues a relationship strictly to get a wife. Not true.

If a guy needs "someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for..." to make him feel more like a man - I would say he still has some growing up to do.

Yes, he does, and he should probably realize that he wants a mother, not a partner. This sort of relationship can lead to nothing but continuing unhealthy emotional and mental behavior in my mind.

Romance isn't dead. It's changed a bit as we have changed, but it's not dead. I see things now as the best of both worlds. Just because a woman is strong and independant doesn't mean she won't enjoy getting flowers, or a card, having a poem written for her.

As for chivalry - it isn't dead either. I think people have just become more rude and don't acknowledge it.[/QUOTE]


As I said in my previous post, I do not believe it is dead, but dying. Too often do people perform romantic acts (or for the matter, any act) with ulterior motives in mind based on sheer selfishness. Now, there is nothing wrong with being selfish, but do not be deceptive about it. These people, who give people flowers and profess their love for another, often do so to recieve something in return. They do not tell you "I love you" to share with you how they feel, but so that you will tell them in return. If you don't, they become upset. It's utter bullshit.

Romance can make me nauseous personally, but insincere romance just makes me downright pissed off.

[Flaire]

Romance, to me, is not the buying of generic bunches of flowers, holding doors and seats, paying for dinners...to me that's just polite courtesies that I might extend to anyone given the right situation. They're nice things, but...

No...romance to me is those things that show the other person is thinking of you in a personal way, remembering thethings that are important to you, looking out for you, listening to you...allowing you to cry on their shoulder, feeling enough trust to cry on yours...

Romance to me is that building of memories and at the same time, futures, and taking the bad in hand with the good.

The most romantic thing my partner has done for me, and I for him, is being there for each other, and knowing that we can always count on each other no matter what.

I couldn't have said it better. :smile:

[Valkie]

I have to enlighten you... men are not attracted to that kind of woman... they are SCARED of them... the VAST majority of guys, when thinking about a wife, want someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for... basically, someone who makes them feel more like a man (which and independent woman does not do).


It's a really sad trend IMO

I'm thinking you hang around the wrong people... note, not men... people. Anyone who holds the idea that they need a partner to take care of them doesn't belong in a relationship.

I hang out with a lot... and I mean A LOT of men... I don't normally get along with women and don't go out of my way to be friends with them. Let me let you in on a little secret, men normally RUN from women like that, in serious relationships and casual dating. People have enough crap to take care of in this world, why in the world would they want to saddle themselves with someone who needs someone to hold their hand in everything. If they wanted someone they can protect, pamper and provide for, they get a dog. Men want a partner, not a leech.

The male population as a whole, has pretty much decided that since a woman is going to be independent, there is no reason to look out for her, and so they are "fair game" to be used up and left by the road-side (both physically and emotionally)...

again, I have found the exact opposite. A real man knows that no matter how independent a woman is, there are things that she can't do, won't do, or doesn't want to do alone. Human being are social creatures and to say that there is no reason to get into a relationship because of independence is like saying that everyone should be a hermit.

I am an independent woman. I have been the bread winner of the family for years, raise my kids, keep everyone's schedual co-ordinated. I can do plumbing, auto repair, electronics, and a lot of other things that are required in today's world by myself. Three of my four best friends are men (one being my hubby who I have been with for 11 years) and the only thing that they try to save me from is burning out.

and on a side note: Nobody can "use up" another person unless they let them. People who use are called a leech and they exist in both genders. It is the weak person who stay in a situation where that is happening to them.

[arctic splash]

I am the greatest believer in romance, and I'll quest interminably to keep it alive.

For those of us who believe in it, it's as alive as ever. It's what we make of it.

[serenarian]

I don't think romance is dead. My boyfriend is very romantic. I guess it depends on the person though, not everyone is a hopeless romantic but I managed to get lucky and end up with someone who is. :)

[morrigen]

OK, so there are some exceptions to the rule (and especially in current relationships as people discover what actually does make others happy)

I always open doors, pull out seats at the table etc for females... it is my own belief that all females should be treated like a princess, until they prove that they don't deserve it, then they are treated with indifference.

However, there are only ever TWO reactions I have ever come across.

The first (and more common one) being total indifference, as though to say "you are a guy, you should be doing this for me because I am superior".

And the other one, is (and I've actually had someone say this to me) "you are a guy, you should not be so sexist in thinking that I can't do it for myself. I'm the superior sex here, I can look out for myself"

And everywhere I look, with chivalry, and romance... I NEVER hear that simplest of words "thankyou". It seems to have disappeared from the vocabulary of the female species.

Maybe you need to broaden your horizons. I know alot of women, myself included who know well enough to say "thank you" to courtesy.

And the feminsit line of thought that says we can do things for ourselves means we consider ourselves *equal*, not superior.

Please do not judge 51% of the entire planet on a couple of negative experiences :)

[morrigen]

I have to enlighten you... men are not attracted to that kind of woman... they are SCARED of them... the VAST majority of guys, when thinking about a wife, want someone to look after them, to hold them and make the world good, but more importantly, someone for them to protect, someone that they can pamper, provide for... basically, someone who makes them feel more like a man (which and independent woman does not do).

The male population as a whole, has pretty much decided that since a woman is going to be independent, there is no reason to look out for her, and so they are "fair game" to be used up and left by the road-side (both physically and emotionally)...

It's a really sad trend IMODear gods, I'm glad my partner didn't want a combination of his mother and a 5 year old.

He wanted, and wants, an equal to stand beside him, someone who is capable of looking after herself, thinking for herself and who has a life that encompases more than "home and hearth"...he wants someone who can hold her own in conversation, bring new and interesting things to the relationship....

No man I have ever met worth his salt has ever treated me badly because I am independant.

And the ones who tried to...well. That says more about their character than mine.