Ouja Boards: What do you think?

[Mizu no Tennyou]

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this. I am hopeing it is. If it is not, feel free to move me to right place. ^_^;;; Any way, I wanted to ask what everyone's opinions are on ouja boards? Are they useful? Are they harmful? Give me your opinions. Thank you <3

[wounded_crow]

I keep contacting The Parker Brothers.... it's kinda funny and irritating. They are a bunch of pranksters. :nyah:

[mucgwyrt]

if I could find someone to do one with, I would.
Unfortunately all my friends are either petrified, christian, or fluffy-wiccan.

[hedgewitch00]

I want to know more about seyonces (or however you spell that) i made my own ouija board one time and it wouldn't work but we did end up with a poultergeist.

[*Rain*]

They can be a very useful tool IF you know what you're doing. If you don't then I wouldn't advise it. You need to be pretty hot on protection before you even consider it. A lot of spirits will just toy with you.

[mucgwyrt]

I honestly dont see why Ouiji are supposed to be dangerous.
I mean, all you're doing is using aboard and some letters to communicate with something which is already present anyway. :whatgives

[*Rain*]

My friend's Dad used and studied them for several years and has a list an arm long of things that have gone wrong in various situations. Admittedly a lot of people have used them effectively with no problems. You can't always be sure what/who you are getting through and there are a lot of mischevious spirits out there that will play with people. I think when it's used a serious tool it's not a problem but when people are using it as a toy or game and aren't prepared for the consequences then it can cause trouble. Stan won't even touch them anymore.

[Anubis]

I make spirit boards. As a saftey we include a "trap" that I haven't seen on anyone's elses. The trap is on the underside of the planchette and on the board itself. it is a protection symbol which keeps the "nasties" from coming through. Basically when you use a spirit board you are opening a portal into another dimension and setting out a welcome mat for whatever happens to come by. That's why I include the trap

[Azure_Dreams]

I have seen various tecniques is ways people try to contact "The other side" as to call it. But I also think (for some f**cked up reason) that Ouija boards can contact living people. I'm not sure if anyone can clarrify that for me or not. It's just what I have thought since I was young. Dream tapping if you want to call it that even!

But when we done one the glass broke.
I kinda walked away
:imout:
And I heard a ghost/spirit saying "You are lucky to have me visit you....others may not be son kind....you have an amazingly strong natural barrier!.....Dont toy with what you don't understand you one!
:ghostie:

Strange aint it!

[WolfMoon]

I won't even let a ouija board in my house. Not enough people know how to safely work with one! You really hear more horror stories associated with it than anything else, maybe because the ones who've had good experiences with it don't talk about it as much.

[mucgwyrt]

I won't even let a ouija board in my house. Not enough people know how to safely work with one! You really hear more horror stories associated with it than anything else, maybe because the ones who've had good experiences with it don't talk about it as much.
yeah, but its always that mythical "friend-of-a-friend" who the story happened to :rolleyes:

[*Rain*]

Mizu - here are the last threads where it was discussed

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=45675

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=53613

Just thought you might find them interesting.

[Shanti]

They can be tools just like any other divining tool. :)

[Sleet]

I keep contacting The Parker Brothers.... it's kinda funny and irritating. They are a bunch of pranksters. :nyah:

Pranksters, hell, it's a scam. I used one once and I accidentally ordered four copies of Candy Land and one Monopoly. ;)



With all seriousness, I think like most spiritual tools you largely get out of it what you put into it.

[Djinn]

Best of the other Ouija threads:

I've always said that if Parker Brothers could REALLY make a GAME BOARD that could contact spirits, do you REALLY think they wouldn't be ruling the world by now?

:fpraiseyo :woot::fpraiseyo

[Shanti]

People use a lot of tools to help contact other worlds/spirits. Such as tarot, pendulums, scrying mirrors and so on. All these things can be used for the same reasons. Wether made by parker Brothers or Life Designs manufactures ( maker of pendulums and other things) its not a tool untill you make it a tool.

[Hazel BlueMoon]

When I was about 13-14 yrs. old and I had a very close coven, we had a Quija board and it worked alot...and I couldn't figure out if someone was moving it or not. So, then one time using it, my friend, (coven member) asked "ok, if this is real and we are talking to a spirit, then what's the name, age and phone number of the current guy I'm dating?" She asked this because we didn't really know the guy she was dating it was sort of a "secret" thing. So, the name was right, and then it gave us the "wrong" age, and then the phone number was right. So, she was pissed and confused. At the time we were doing this in my room and my mom was having a little gathering of friends and drinking (as she usually did) and the guy that introduced my friend to this guy she was dating was friends with my mom and was out in our livingroom, so she goes up to him and ask's him the age of this guy. And he gave her the answer that she thought it was (17, I think??) and she said "oh, because the Quija board just told us (23???)". And then he just looked at us, like he had just seen a ghost. He said "what?.....I wasn't suppose to say anything, but yes, that's his real age".
It was a big dramatic thing,and she eventually had to end it with the guy because she was under age. But, yeah, so that was creepy.
I have one now, I've tried using it with my siblings and nothing ever happens. So, I mostly just use it as spooky decoration on my coffee table...a bit of a conversation piece, if you will.
Blessed Be!

[Ravyn Sylverwyng]

I have used the Ouija board with a lot of success for about 13 years. I never use it with anyone that I don't trust. And, I never ask it stupid questions. It is as much as a tool as anything else that I have in my chest. I never have any success with one if I use it alone. Perhaps I just don't have enough power to me to do it. But, my sister and I, which is the only person that I will use it with, have a good deal of success with it. So, I find that I don't mind using it. If I let someone else tell me about their horror story to jade my perception of every tool, then I would never use anything. It is no different than using a mirror in my opinion.

[Mizu no Tennyou]

Thank you for all your opinions and thoughts. ^^ I really appreciate it. <3 I was always told that there were not right to use. (not safe) But I am curious about them. I used them a little as a child. But of course, you know, I was a child then. I wouldn't taunt spirits because that's not my way. I am not that kind of person. I am just curious about contacting some spirits in relation to me. (not family, but guides)

Also, I am yet to know about useing cards for such a thing. I have oracle cards. How would one go about contacting a spirit through cards?

[Toby Stimpson]

I talked to a clairvoyant psychic in the town next to mine a few months ago. She said soemthing that I personally agree with, "Ouija boards don't attract high level beings or even spirits. Only the lowest of vibrating energy beings are attracted to them...thats why I won't let a ouija board near my house." Basicly, thats going on the idea that the energy realm is devided into vibrations. Lower level beings that vibrate no higher than certain levels could be called 'Demons,' while the higher level beings like Gods and Angels are at the higher reaches. We are mixed in between as are many others. The idea she was suggesting was that Ouija boards don't access higher level beings, only lower negetive beings. I agree with this just based on what I've been taught. Namaste

Tobias

[Ice Rose]

hmm... i havent had any bad dealings with a ouija board, but i have heard things, some of the things i asked didn't come true and that was probaly because one of the times the people i was with were moving the eye themselves. eh well, when i can find someone serious enough to do that with like persay then i will, most people i can do it with are too busy, or dont have a ouija board.... :ghostie:

[Enigma]

I've never actually had them work. I remain sceptical.

[Moon Daughter]

I talked to a clairvoyant psychic in the town next to mine a few months ago. She said soemthing that I personally agree with, "Ouija boards don't attract high level beings or even spirits. Only the lowest of vibrating energy beings are attracted to them...thats why I won't let a ouija board near my house." Basicly, thats going on the idea that the energy realm is devided into vibrations. Lower level beings that vibrate no higher than certain levels could be called 'Demons,' while the higher level beings like Gods and Angels are at the higher reaches. We are mixed in between as are many others. The idea she was suggesting was that Ouija boards don't access higher level beings, only lower negetive beings. I agree with this just based on what I've been taught. Namaste

Tobias


but why is the lower vibration necessarily Negative?

[tarotbaby]

hmm... i havent had any bad dealings with a ouija board, but i have heard things, some of the things i asked didn't come true and that was probaly because one of the times the people i was with were moving the eye themselves. eh well, when i can find someone serious enough to do that with like persay then i will, most people i can do it with are too busy, or dont have a ouija board.... :ghostie:

Be sure to get a real ouija board. I made the mistake of buying that piece of crap that is sold on game isles in retail stores. A friend had one hand carved by an old gypsy lady. It was awesome.

[Sage Rainsong]

I had an interesting experience with a ouija board. When I was 13 me and the neighborhoods kids were using it. Well we kept thinking that people were moving it so we decided to try it out. Everyone took their hands off of the moving peice thingy and it still moved! I mean all of our hands weren't even near the board cause we put them all up in the air. We freaked out and ran away. Some kid cried. It was cool. I think that ouija boards have some weird stigma attached to them for some reason. I think of it as simply a tool like everything else such as tarot ect. And like any tool you must be careful. Thats why I believe that Azure dreams is right about being able to contact people beacuse we are psychically contacting people using the tool. Anyway thoes are just my two cents.

[Toby Stimpson]

Moon Daughter, think of it as a scale of enlightenent...the lowest and more negetive energy beings are the most unenlightened and darker. Not all of those are 'bad' or 'evil' just negetive, and dangerous. Lower forms of energy beings are more often that not melevolent. Also, think of it more as a scale of Karma...if you are heavy then you sink to the bottom and can't climb up...if you are lighter then you flowt to the top. If you are weighed down by bad Karma, you sink to the lower vibrations. Lighter, you rise to the top. Does that help you understand? Ouija boards only attract the heavier, more negetive Karma. Namaste

Tobias

[mucgwyrt]

nope, I still agree with Moon Daughter.
I mean, we have (presumabley) "lower" vibrations than a god, but that doesn't make us evil.
I met a tree wight who has higher vibrations than humans, and he was a right pain in the arse.

I think like attracts like. If you're an emotional teenager you're probably going to attract energies as negative as your temperament. if you're stable, experienced and centred, you're going to have a good experience. Like pot but not :D

[Bix]

So, then...what is the "proper" way to use a Ouija board? People keep saying it's not dangerous unless you don't know what you're doing. So....how do you do it? {;^P

[Mattan]

My mother told me a story once.
She was working at an oldfolks home at the time.
They had just checked all the residents and they were all fine...
So they had a break and decided to try an Ouija board.
All they got was, Room 9.
So they went to check the room and found the old lady dead.

Kinda creepy if you ask me...

[Breathless Falcon]

One word for a Ouija board "respect". I have heard too, if you don't know what you are doing, stay away! I like the idea of a "spirit board" sounds safer.

Falcon

[Devi]

I have used the Ouija board with my friends many times. The last time was some years ago though. When we did we had a few different experiences. Sometimes you got nothing,other times you did but the information was incorrect. But i must say there were a few times when we really connected and got amazing results. The most interesting to me was when we asked the names or initials of our future husbands. The information was completly correct. This is before any of us had met our husbands also!( I also got the first name of my husband which happened to be the name of my ex-boyfriend who I was dating at the time.) :woah: But, When I asked for age it didnt match his. It wasnt untill over a year later when i fell in love with my husband did i remember this and realized that my husband was the age the spirit had gave earlier. :eek:


Also I do believe that ouija boards must be handled carefully. I have heard some stories. We always did a chant of protection and cleansing before and after.

[mucgwyrt]

I have used the Ouija board with my friends many times. The last time was some years ago though. When we did we had a few different experiences. Sometimes you got nothing,other times you did but the information was incorrect. But i must say there were a few times when we really connected and got amazing results. The most interesting to me was when we asked the names or initials of our future husbands. The information was completly correct. This is before any of us had met our husbands also!( I also got the first name of my husband which happened to be the name of my ex-boyfriend who I was dating at the time.) :woah: But, When I asked for age it didnt match his. It wasnt untill over a year later when i fell in love with my husband did i remember this and realized that my husband was the age the spirit had gave earlier. :eek:


Also I do believe that ouija boards must be handled carefully. I have heard some stories. We always did a chant of protection and cleansing before and after.
But did you feel drawn to your husband because you had been told this was the guy for you, subconsciously? :)

[Devi]

But did you feel drawn to your husband because you had been told this was the guy for you, subconsciously? :)


macha
no not at all. We had been together for awhile before I even remembered this. I was going through some emotional issues at the time and if anything I was a bit annoyed with my strong feelings for him. I tried to keep him at a distance but we had a strong pull towards each other. :bumpsmili

[BrigidMoon]

I've used them successfully in the past. Very cautious though using it. Don't know if it would be a good idea to do so now, maybe in some other cases and places....

[Dawa Lhamo]

Well, I have a lot of friends who have had bad experiences and won't touch them. I think it really depends on what you go into it with, with regards to both state of mind, and what you're expecting.

If you are trying to tap into a collective unconscious or Divine or something similar, then you shouldn't really have problems. (As with any kind of channelling or such, I'd still recommend some basic protections against curious spirits.) If you are trying to channel a spirit from the dead or similar, then it's a lot more iffy. There probably are helpful ones out there, but there are also ones that want to mess with you or cause harm.

And of course, as with anything, your state of mind really helps determine what kinds of things will come up. If your mind is at peace, you'll probably have a better experience than if you're agitated or angry or anything. At least, that's what I've concluded. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[midnightreflections]

I have used them before (long time ago in my teenage years :lol: )with no problems. But now I prefer to deal with spirit direct rather than via a board of any sort.

It would be like me being a room with one of you and instead of talking we point at letters to communicate

[mucgwyrt]

I have used them before (long time ago in my teenage years :lol: )with no problems. But now I prefer to deal with spirit direct rather than via a board of any sort.

It would be like me being a room with one of you and instead of talking we point at letters to communicate
:lol:

I dunno, I'm still kind of curious to try it, just to see what all the fuss is about :D

[SageWoodWitch]

I have one but ive never used it, im too afriad too with all the stories i hear from people....my brother and i tried once years ago but it wouldnt work cuz he wasnt taking it seriously and joking around

[Bix]

So, could somebody actually tell me the proper way to use them? There must be some things you can do to protect yourself.

[karma_lives]

My cousin was using a ouji board once and supposedly the spirit she contacted stuck around and was extremely protective and helpful.

[Faeawyn]

My cousin was using a ouji board once and supposedly the spirit she contacted stuck around and was extremely protective and helpful.
That is not always the case...trust me on this.

[Faeawyn]

If it has not already been suggested, I would highly recommend casting a circle before using one....just as a precaution :)

[HecateRising]

I haven't used a Ouija board since the time the planchette started melting underneath our fingers... Umm, that was too much for me. :holycow:

[Old Witch]

yeah, but its always that mythical "friend-of-a-friend" who the story happened to :rolleyes:

Here's a first hand account....a short version if you will...when I was 22 or so I used a board frequently. Then one time a very scary entity came thru. It scaared the bejeebus out of me...I packed it up and put it away.....15 years later, my kids found the thing in my attic, and started playing with it. After a little while, they were "scared" by some of the answers that thing started giving them and they came and got me....That board was destroyed on the spot! I won't have another one ever!

[Wolffang]

I always wanted an ouja board...Even though I heard stories about them I somehow still wanted one...

[Toby Stimpson]

nope, I still agree with Moon Daughter.
I mean, we have (presumabley) "lower" vibrations than a god, but that doesn't make us evil.
I met a tree wight who has higher vibrations than humans, and he was a right pain in the arse.

I think like attracts like. If you're an emotional teenager you're probably going to attract energies as negative as your temperament. if you're stable, experienced and centred, you're going to have a good experience. Like pot but not :D

My answer may be a little late, but that doesn't mean I dont have one. Macha, I must strongly disagree with your anolgy. You seem not to have understood my example. When I say evil...I mean flawed and prone to being flawed. Our vibrations are lower than Gods...but then we are higher than some other melevolent and negetive beings...which is why they can come through on a Ouija board. The board is a way for them to speak to us becasue in a sceance some of the ceremonial and ritualistic safeguards screen them out. It doesn't matter how many times someone can say 'as long as you know how to use one...,' it still doesn't make them regularly safe. Bix has asked and asked for someone to tell a 'safe way' to use one...and apart from the circle idea, none have been given. Only negetive stories about them. As for your story about the tree wight, being a pain in the arse has really nothing to do with one's position on the energy scale. But if you want to go ahead and use one, that is your decision...perhaps you'll get lucky and not attract a negetive spirit...lucky being the opperative word. Namaste

Tobias

[aerialla]

I had something very bad happen to me using a Ouija board. I have seen and felt g hosts since I was a child. When I was in college we had the ghost of a young girl in our dorm room. She didn't like my roommate who would come home from the weekend and find her things destroyed. People were even starting to see her silouette in our window late at night. One night a group of us that had all witnessed her got together to use a Ouija.There were nine of us around the board, which I led. I had never done it, but had seen first hand before what to do with no results. Things got a little freaky, I don't know if it was just my having a close connection to the spirtual plane but our lights flickered some even went out. Other spirits started filling the room, at the height we had thirteen a couple which were visible, keeping their distance but entirely visible. The girl we had called on Roxy was there. It started to get really scary but none of us could move. The feeling is hard to explain, it was like living lifetimes of pain and horror in a moment. I started bawling and then one by one the other eight did to. I literally felt like my soul was trying to be dragged into hell. It was when someone noticed the figure in the hallway of what I still say to this day was the grim reaper that I was able to pull out of it.

We found out later after doing some research at the library that the girl Roxy commited suicide at 16. She tried to take me with her because she was tired of being alone. At least that's the way it felt. After that I moved out, I couldn't handle the feelings that kept bombarding me by living there any more.

My feelings are don't mess with Ouija boards, you will open up things that will make your nightmares seem like a walk in the park at noon. It may not happen the first or the second. You could go years, until one day when one of them really wants to make their presence felt and will succeed. In other words there are some doors that should never be opened even though the curiosity is great.

[Bix]

Okay...so you cast a circle around you for protection...seems that's the -only- thing anybody knows about it. *sighs* (Thank you, Galadraal, for actually listening to me. You rock!)

Anyways...on to something different. It seems, by the accounts many people have put on here, that Ouja boards more often than not seem to contact negative spirits, restless ghosts, etc. Why are they such a magnet for negative things? I mean...people meditate and supposedly contace these positive nice spirits, deities, etc.

I'm not understanding this.

[aerialla]

Maybe that was there intention when they were created. Who knows, would be worth someone really looking into. Maybe the original one was cursed in such a way that it was carried to all of the ones that were created after it. Kind of like when one of your ancestors gets cursed and its passed along throughout the family. That's the only thing that I can think of.

[Bix]

Maybe that was there intention when they were created. Who knows, would be worth someone really looking into. Maybe the original one was cursed in such a way that it was carried to all of the ones that were created after it. Kind of like when one of your ancestors gets cursed and its passed along throughout the family. That's the only thing that I can think of.
I don't think I can believe a board game can be cursed...but that's an interesting idea, nonetheless.

[Ravyn Sylverwyng]

My information may not be welcomed by all, and it seems that there is a lot of misgivings about the Ouija Board, and rightly so, but I will share what i know. Everything that I have read on this seems to point to the fact that it is the same as a pendulum or more to the point a scrying mirror, as it works the same way. They both open a door up to another dimention that can potentially allow a spirit or entity to gain entrance into place that you are working.

I will agree there has to be precautions made. First of all is to cast a circle of protection. And, I also make a protection symbol on the back of the planchette, the part that is against the board. Perhaps this is the reason that I haven't had any problems while working with it. I don't go into it with any high hopes, or fears. I always know what it is that I am going to ask before I sit down with it. Perhaps that is another reason that I haven't had any problems.

Another thing that I always do before I cast the circle, is sit in a medative state for a few minutes and wait until I feel my guardian angel, or what you want to call it standing behind me. I always envision him/her placing a hand on my shoulder and feeling the energy flow through my body. Then I cast my circle.

I also always use a small chant to help with keeping away spirits that may cause any mischief or trouble. It can be anything that comes from the heart. Just so long as you mean it and it is used as a form of protection.

I know that many of you will disagree with what I have said. And, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just trying to help Bix, since they wanted to know, and this is my experience.

[Bix]

My information may not be welcomed by all, and it seems that there is a lot of misgivings about the Ouija Board, and rightly so, but I will share what i know. Everything that I have read on this seems to point to the fact that it is the same as a pendulum or more to the point a scrying mirror, as it works the same way. They both open a door up to another dimention that can potentially allow a spirit or entity to gain entrance into place that you are working.

I will agree there has to be precautions made. First of all is to cast a circle of protection. And, I also make a protection symbol on the back of the planchette, the part that is against the board. Perhaps this is the reason that I haven't had any problems while working with it. I don't go into it with any high hopes, or fears. I always know what it is that I am going to ask before I sit down with it. Perhaps that is another reason that I haven't had any problems.

Another thing that I always do before I cast the circle, is sit in a medative state for a few minutes and wait until I feel my guardian angel, or what you want to call it standing behind me. I always envision him/her placing a hand on my shoulder and feeling the energy flow through my body. Then I cast my circle.

I also always use a small chant to help with keeping away spirits that may cause any mischief or trouble. It can be anything that comes from the heart. Just so long as you mean it and it is used as a form of protection.

I know that many of you will disagree with what I have said. And, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just trying to help Bix, since they wanted to know, and this is my experience.

Thank you! I really appreciate the information!

[Fluffmeister]

I'm sure ouija boards *can* be used safely if you know what you're doing - but how many of us *do* know what we're doing? I mean, I have electricity in my house, but I wouldn't start sticking forks in the plug sockets for a laugh just to see what happens.

I agree with what people say about them opening up gateways that can let spirits in - and you may hit it lucky and let in a good spirit, or you may not. My experience with a ouija board when I was about 11 freaked me and a friend out so much I wouldn't go near one again, personally.

Having said that, it's not just ouija boards. I do tarot meditations, and those gateways have led to some very scary places, too. I've also had the very salutory lesson of spending a year living in a house that was also home to a very unpleasant entity, about twenty years ago. It couldn't be cleared, and I left the house. I'm very happy in my current house, and I did end up scrying without proper protection and ended up with an unpleasant entity here, too. Fortunately, I was able to send that one on its way eventually.

Bix asked about protection - I find the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram pretty powerful before doing any sort of psychic work, and be sure to close your chakras afterwards too.

I've got a couple of articles on protection, which work for me - see if they work for you, or adapt them, or try other techniques. Whatever you do, psychic protection *is* vital.

Banishing ritual: http://www.zaalberg.freeserve.co.uk/ritual.htm
Closing chakras: http://www.zaalberg.freeserve.co.uk/chakras.htm

[DamienDeville]

Some good info,,,, but what if your a Satanist and you dont want to call on Angels and YHVH in a banishing ritual?

[Toby Stimpson]

If your a true Satanist, then you should have sufficiant spiritual power ot repel negetive spirits...that is if you believe in spirits at all.

Tobias

[Fluffmeister]

Some good info,,,, but what if your a Satanist and you dont want to call on Angels and YHVH in a banishing ritual?
Well, I'm pretty wary of Yahweh the biblical entity - who seems to have taken over from the far more mysterious and benevolent elohim. However, the energy of the four letters is a different thing.

What view do you have of Satan? Biblically "ha-satan" just means the adversary, and ha-satan is always portrayed as doing God's will. The "fallen angel" Satan of Christian mythology is of course far more powerful (given the ability to battle with God now), and is of course... an angel! Personally, I don't do Christian myths, so wouldn't be interested in working with the Christian Satan so can't comment on how you'd work with that entity. However, I'm sure you have protection rituals in your own tradition? And have you thought of Chaos Magick - that's a great system of ritual that I would have thought would be compatible with Satanism.

Incidentally, has anyone here read a book called "The Apocrypha" by John A. de Vito? It's a novel, but it's a story of Lucifer's fall from heaven, told from *his* point of view - it's a great read.

[DamienDeville]

Well, I'm pretty wary of Yahweh the biblical entity - who seems to have taken over from the far more mysterious and benevolent elohim. However, the energy of the four letters is a different thing.

What view do you have of Satan? Biblically "ha-satan" just means the adversary, and ha-satan is always portrayed as doing God's will. The "fallen angel" Satan of Christian mythology is of course far more powerful (given the ability to battle with God now), and is of course... an angel! Personally, I don't do Christian myths, so wouldn't be interested in working with the Christian Satan so can't comment on how you'd work with that entity. However, I'm sure you have protection rituals in your own tradition? And have you thought of Chaos Magick - that's a great system of ritual that I would have thought would be compatible with Satanism.

Incidentally, has anyone here read a book called "The Apocrypha" by John A. de Vito? It's a novel, but it's a story of Lucifer's fall from heaven, told from *his* point of view - it's a great read.
Heres my view of deity:
Theres a god that formed us humans with the help of a goddess,they came from a primal force(not a deity though).They formed us the way we are and does not condemn us for being human.What their true names are I am not sure of.I choose the names Satan,Lucifer and Lilith to refer to them.Satan because he and the name ha satan symbolises being adverse or against the religions that condemn human nature as sinful.Lucifer(light bringer) because Lucifer was a god that symbolises light and the god I believe in does that,he brings light to the reality that humans are not born in sin as the Abrahamic faiths claim and that human nature is normal.Lilith well I chose that name to refer to the goddess because she was seen as the wife of satan in some sources.I do not believe in the Abrahamic views of god,satan,lucifer or lilith.Thats why my question was but what if your a Satanist and you dont want to call on Angels and YHVH in a banishing ritual?..I wont use them because I dont follow them or believe in them.
As for my tradition,its exactly that mine,I have not joined a church,temple,synogue,etc and dont belong to any tradition,I had these beliefs before I came across others with the same beliefs on the internet.But I will check into it.Thanks for the suggestion concerning chaos magick also!
Never read that book before,sorry!
Ave Satana!
Ave Lilith!
http://www.theistic-satanism.org/bgoat/traditional.html
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=76048

[Fluffmeister]

Heres my view of deity:
Theres a god that formed us humans with the help of a goddess,they came from a primal force(not a deity though).They formed us the way we are and does not condemn us for being human.What their true names are I am not sure of.I choose the names Satan,Lucifer and Lilith to refer to them.Satan because he and the name ha satan symbolises being adverse or against the religions that condemn human nature as sinful.Lucifer(light bringer) because Lucifer was a god that symbolises light and the god I believe in does that,he brings light to the reality that humans are not born in sin as the Abrahamic faiths claim and that human nature is normal.Lilith well I chose that name to refer to the goddess because she was seen as the wife of satan in some sources.I do not believe in the Abrahamic views of god,satan,lucifer or lilith.Thats why my question was but what if your a Satanist and you dont want to call on Angels and YHVH in a banishing ritual?..I wont use them because I dont follow them or believe in them.
As for my tradition,its exactly that mine,I have not joined a church,temple,synogue,etc and dont belong to any tradition,I had these beliefs before I came across others with the same beliefs on the internet.But I will check into it.Thanks for the suggestion concerning chaos magick also!
Never read that book before,sorry!
Ave Satana!
Ave Lilith!
http://www.theistic-satanism.org/bgoat/traditional.html
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=76048
Yes, I think that's a very fair point - I have a lot of respect for Lilith, and think her "demonisation" was typical of the way that many goddesses have been devalued by a primarily male culture. We see this time and time again with Greek goddesses, too.

I can understand *not* wanting to use angels (and particularly YHVH - I struggled with that one myself for a long time), and I'm a great believer in using the ritual that works for you.

I'm a pagan, so consider the human state to be the correct state for us humans, and not something for condemnation; and my main objection to Christianity is the concept that we're born into sin. As you say, this is common to Abrahamic faiths, but Judaism takes a far more pragmatic view of this - whereas Christians consider the Genesis myth of "the Fall" to be a bad thing, I heard a Rabbi compare it to a child growing up. "Adam and Eve were like babies in the garden of Eden", he said. "And that sort of 'innocence' is delightful in a baby, but a cause for conern in an adult. The story of the Fall is a metaphor for humanity growing up and having to stand on its own two feet."

In the Kabbalah, the "blame" (if such a word can be used) for the lack of perfection in the world is laid squarely at God's feet - he filled the sacred vessels with divine light, which was so powerful that it smashed the vessels, leaving shards of divinity lying around all over the place. Our job is that of "tikkun olam" - "eternal repair", to pick up the shards of divine light to try and make them whole again.

The book I mentioned takes the viewpoint that Lucifer is on the side of humanity, and Yahweh is opposed to humanity. Lucifer, incidentally, is not mentioned in the Jewish bible (the "Old Testament") at all - it's true that the word "Lucifer" appears once, and once only, in the old King James Version of the Bible, but all modern versions translate it as "son of the morning" or "morning star", and it's obvious that the character being berated is *not* satan, but the King of Babylon. The passage is slagging off the King of Babylon saying: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that did cast lots over the nations!"

In the original Hebrew, the word that the KJV translated translated as "Lucifer" was "HYLL" (pronounced Hyalal). This word does *not* mean morning star, or light-bringer - in fact, it doesn't mean anything at all in Hebrew; it's the Hebrew transliteration of a Babylonian diety called "Alalu". Now, Alalu was the son of Ishtar/Venus who got too big for his boots, so he was thrown out of heaven by his own mother. This passage in Isaiah is basically taunting the King of Babylon telling him he's got too arrogant, and he's going to fall, just like the diety Alalu.

[DamienDeville]

Yes, I think that's a very fair point - I have a lot of respect for Lilith, and think her "demonisation" was typical of the way that many goddesses have been devalued by a primarily male culture. We see this time and time again with Greek goddesses, too.

I can understand *not* wanting to use angels (and particularly YHVH - I struggled with that one myself for a long time), and I'm a great believer in using the ritual that works for you.

I'm a pagan, so consider the human state to be the correct state for us humans, and not something for condemnation; and my main objection to Christianity is the concept that we're born into sin. As you say, this is common to Abrahamic faiths, but Judaism takes a far more pragmatic view of this - whereas Christians consider the Genesis myth of "the Fall" to be a bad thing, I heard a Rabbi compare it to a child growing up. "Adam and Eve were like babies in the garden of Eden", he said. "And that sort of 'innocence' is delightful in a baby, but a cause for conern in an adult. The story of the Fall is a metaphor for humanity growing up and having to stand on its own two feet."

In the Kabbalah, the "blame" (if such a word can be used) for the lack of perfection in the world is laid squarely at God's feet - he filled the sacred vessels with divine light, which was so powerful that it smashed the vessels, leaving shards of divinity lying around all over the place. Our job is that of "tikkun olam" - "eternal repair", to pick up the shards of divine light to try and make them whole again.

The book I mentioned takes the viewpoint that Lucifer is on the side of humanity, and Yahweh is opposed to humanity. Lucifer, incidentally, is not mentioned in the Jewish bible (the "Old Testament") at all - it's true that the word "Lucifer" appears once, and once only, in the old King James Version of the Bible, but all modern versions translate it as "son of the morning" or "morning star", and it's obvious that the character being berated is *not* satan, but the King of Babylon. The passage is slagging off the King of Babylon saying: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that did cast lots over the nations!"

In the original Hebrew, the word that the KJV translated translated as "Lucifer" was "HYLL" (pronounced Hyalal). This word does *not* mean morning star, or light-bringer - in fact, it doesn't mean anything at all in Hebrew; it's the Hebrew transliteration of a Babylonian diety called "Alalu". Now, Alalu was the son of Ishtar/Venus who got too big for his boots, so he was thrown out of heaven by his own mother. This passage in Isaiah is basically taunting the King of Babylon telling him he's got too arrogant, and he's going to fall, just like the diety Alalu.
Thanks and thanks for the info on the book and the info on Alalu never heard that before.I had heard of the info on Lucifer and of the hebrew word HYLL though I seen it spelled Halel and they said it meant bringer of light,cant remember where I read it though.Thanks again.

[Fluffmeister]

Thanks and thanks for the info on the book and the info on Alalu never heard that before.I had heard of the info on Lucifer and of the hebrew word HYLL though I seen it spelled Halel and they said it meant bringer of light,cant remember where I read it though.Thanks again.
The confusion is that Hebrew has so many meanings for "root" words - and that Hebrew doesn't use vowels (although the medieval Jewish scholars added vowels to bible texts). In the passage itself, the spelling is "Heh-Yod-Lamed-Lamed" (HYLL) but the way it's "pointed" (the vowel symbols added in medieval times) suggest it's pronounced "Hay-Layl". Now, this word doesn't occur anywhere else in the bible, so scholars assumed that it came from the root word "HLL".

Problem is, there are *two* root words HLL. One of them means "boastful", and the other does indeed mean "Shining". So HYLL could mean "boastful one", or "shining one", or something completely different that's non-Hebrew in origin. The latter case presents a real problem for translators - suppose that in 1,000 years time, someone tries decoding a 21st century article that talks about someone driving a "Toyota". They may think the word has something to do with "Toy", but not be sure about it - it wouldn't occur to them that it's a Japanese word being used in an English language document. So scholars opted for one of the root words - and chose "shining one" as the translation, especially in view of the fact that the king was being taunted for "falling from heaven". It's always been problematic, because why would the original biblical author have referred to a hated enemy king as "the shining one?". Actually, "boastful one" would have fitted far better, and been typical of the Hebrew puns used in abundance in the bible - taking a Babylonian diety name, and then changing the sound of it slightly to sound like a derogatory Hebrew word instead.

[enchancea]

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this. I am hopeing it is. If it is not, feel free to move me to right place. ^_^;;; Any way, I wanted to ask what everyone's opinions are on ouja boards? Are they useful? Are they harmful? Give me your opinions. Thank you <3
I dont think the ones you can buy at kmart or wherever are any good. But the ones that people make are very real. But I would never touch one.

[LadyTrinity]

My view is the intuitive person moves the pointer around. They arent making it up persay.. but they are moving it.. Some people are very intuitive and can sense things.. even if its board messages

[Taurwen]

Myself, I haven't used it, but a friend has.

She tried to contact her Grandmother, who had passed away recently, and she supposedly did. She asked What did her grandmother call her, and the board spelled out "Brat" which was right. Apparently she was able to see the "orb" floating above the board.

Although, the person I'm talking about isn't the most reliable of people...