View Full Version : An Experiment

September 2nd, 2001, 05:08 PM
This thread is an experiment.

This is the hypothesis: It is possible to carry on a political conversation at MysticWicks in an adult fashion.

Care to help me test the hypothesis?

Here are the guidelines of the experiment:

1. No name calling - all people will be referred to by their proper name. No insinuations, toungue in cheek, etc... i.e. Bill Clinton is not "slick willie," George Bush, Jr. is not "dubya."

1a. Political parties are also referred to by proper names.

2. Positions taken will be based on facts that can be substantiated. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but opinions will be plainly labeled as such.

3. This thread is for thoughtful conversation, not generalizations and rants.

4. Use of smilies is not allowed.

The topic for this experiment is the pros and cons of oil exploration in area 1002 of the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve.

September 2nd, 2001, 06:11 PM
of this thread ........, because I think the issue is far greater than whether a few people (including myself ) get some feelings or smilies bent out of shape .
But here are my sincere and heartfelt opinions , not because I dont love and respect the stats and proof ,and the people who provide them ..... I am just the type that... that kind of task orientation drives me wild.( you know ...... right brained and ethereal )
OK my first point is ..... there are FEW enough pristine wildplaces in the world.... with the population expansion and rapid development, if we can preserve one I really think we should, and as a pagan I beleive it in a spiritual sense not just mundane.......
Second point..We as humanity need to be looking at alternative energy sources .... and by looking for oil we are wasting valuable and precious time that could be devoted to developing wonderful non fossil and renewable sources to a high degree ....if anyone wants to see for themselves ......just type alternative energy into any search engine .... there are wind machines.... there are solar developments ..... there are wave machines in Scotland right now that produce electricity from the motion of the Ocean's waves.. not just a renewable source but an everlasting one!
Third point but connected to the second ....
it is common knowledge and the car companies brag about it in SOME models .....that we HAVE the technology to improve gas mileages by 50% to 100%..... in the vehicles we have ...... which would reduce urgency to despoil the wilderness ......and lower prices and eliminate any shortages for some time to come .
I dont understand why that doesnt upset / anger/ motivate people/ government to the point of demanding these methods be used......

is that affect flat enought for you :>
Love and light

September 7th, 2001, 01:13 AM
The topic for this thread is the Arctic national Wildlife Reserve.

September 7th, 2001, 11:06 PM
The experiment is going well, EP.

September 9th, 2001, 09:29 AM
I feel that the energy policy of the current administration is based on the pre- White House careers of both George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Both men have strong ties to the oil industry and as such, see more drilling and oil exploration as the means to the end of any energy crisis. To put more emphasis on conservation or alternative energy sources would be diametrical to their previous work in the corporate world. As a result, in their political lives, they fall back on what is familiar, and look to the ANWR for a solution. While oil reservoirs may exist in other locations, such as off the Florida coast, political pressure is strong there to keep the drills out. Tourism fuels the economy there, and oil covered beaches are not attractive to tourists. The governor of Florida, Jeb Bush, has influence in the Oval Office unparalleled by any other governor. To put it simply, caribou don't vote. Nor, more importantly are they capable of contributing to the political war chests of the Republican National Committee, nor do they can they vote as stockholders of oil companies. They can't even write to their elected officials in Washington, because, well, they're caribou. The energy policy of the current administration is guided by the people and corporations that assisted Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney in their acquisition of the White House. While I personally find it morally outrageous, short-sighted, and tragic, the men in power are following the course that seems to make sense to them. May Gaia perservere the next few years.....

(phew it was hard to follow the rules......)

September 9th, 2001, 12:54 PM
To question the MOTIVES behind the energy policy ........By Greg Palast in Houston

A new power plant every week for 20 years,
new nukes, drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge
- is this an energy policy, or a payback for
President Bush's big campaign contributors?

From the moment George W Bush announced
he was running for president, $50m came in
from Texas-based energy companies.

But they are hundreds of millions of dollars
better off from his time as governor of Texas -
and because of decisions taken in the first
months of his presidency.

Worst polluter

When it comes to pollution, Texas is champ,
the number one state in emissions of
greenhouse gases and toxic chemicals.

A visit to the city of Houston is enough to
confirm that status.

A 24 km (15 mile) wide forest of smokestacks
stands on the edge of Houston, a place
famous for pumping out pollution, profits and
the political donations which put George Bush
into the White House.

There a mile long cloud
of black smoke, with
flames 60 metres (200
ft) high erupts out of a
Houston cracking plant
as a ruined batch of
ethylene and other
toxic chemicals is
burned off after a
hydrogen line snapped.

Such accidents are
common on this side of
Houston, where
poisonous smoke rains
on local

And it is not just visible emissions locals have
to worry about.

Suspicions aroused

LaNell Anderson lived in the shadow of the
Houston smoke stacks - her mother and father
both died young, victims of bone cancer and
lung disease, which made Ms Anderson

She started taking air samples after an
ethylene leak caused the local high school
running team to collapse on the track.

Lab analysis of her bucket samples has found
carcinogens in the air that are way above legal

She has since found that local cancer cases
are twice the normal rate.

Against regulations

Driving around the area it is possible to smell
hydrogen sulphide in the air, a contravention
of regulations.

"They're not supposed to be releasing
anything, these are outside chemical impacts,
that's not supposed to happen its supposed to
stop at the fence," she says.

So how do the polluters get away with it?

Ms Anderson has her own theory about
"vending machine governance, where the
lobbyists put the money in and out comes
slacker regulation."

Centre for petrochemicals

Texas is the centre of America's petrochemical
industry - home to the nation's biggest
refinery, Exxon's plant in Baytown.

Ms Anderson has Exxon
in her sights, "they're
the largest emitter in
Harris County and they
have the worst
attitude of any
corporation I've ever
witnessed," she said.

Exxon would not
accept her assessment
and neither would
George W Bush.

As Texas governor, Mr
Bush quietly set up a committee led by Exxon,
with other big oil and chemical companies, to
advise him what to do about the state's deadly
air pollution.

Regulators wanted compulsory cuts in
emissions of up to 50% - this "secret"
committee instead proposed making the cuts

Mr Bush duly steered the polluters plan through
the state legislature.

Huge donations

Texas anti-corruption law made it illegal to
donate money to Mr Bush as governor whilst
such legislation was under consideration.

But that month, Mr Bush declared for his
candidacy for president - making the $150,000
donated by committee members and their
representatives completely legal.

The bill passed and pollution did go down - by
just 3% - saving the companies hundreds of
millions of dollars compared to the compulsory

And there has been a bonus for chemical
industry donors since Mr Bush became

The BBC's Newsnight programme learnt he is
quietly restricting public access to estimates
of the number of people who will burn or die in
the event of a catastrophic explosion near
these plants.

Biggest funders

A walk through downtown Houston takes you
past the headquarters of some of Mr Bush's
biggest campaign fund donors.

The El Paso Corporation, which gave $750,000
to the Republican campaign, is now under
investigation for manipulating the California
power market.

Other big contributors include Dynegy, which
gave $300,000 and Reliant, which gave

And the Enron Corporation, America's number
one power trading company, has given more
money than any other to Mr Bush's political

William S Farish, president of W S Farish and
Co, gave $140,000. Mr Bush subsequently
made him ambassador to Great Britain.

Under investigation

Investigations are proceeding into profiteering
by power traders during the California energy
crisis and blackouts.

The state of California
has accused the El
Paso Corporation and
Dynegy of deliberately
restricting the flow of
natural gas through the
pipeline from Texas
creating an artificial
shortage which caused
prices to go up

President Clinton
ordered an end to
speculation in energy
prices in California,
which bit into the
profits of El Paso,
Reliant, Enron and

Between them the four companies gave $3.5m
to Mr Bush and the Republicans. Three days
after his inauguration Mr Bush swept away Mr
Clinton's anti-speculation orders.

Profits for these four power traders are now up
$220m in the first quarter.

And protection against pollution is set to
weaken further, the BBC's Newsnight
programme has discovered that deep in Mr
Bush's new budget, the million-dollar fund for
civil enforcement to deter pollution will be

In the future law enforcement will be left to

and refuse to allow the drilling to proceed.
Love and Light