Initiations

[redlady]

Just wondering...I was given the choice of initiation at Beltane or at Samhain. I was told by members of my coven and other witches that I should take initiation at Beltane, since the Goddess sets harsher tasks at Samhain, and I had had enough harsh tasks already. On Beltane, my coven members were reluctant to initiate me, saying I was'nt ready. Since they bust me on a regular basis, I took this as just another busting on their part, and took initiation at Beltane. Ever since then the you know what has hit the fan, and they all say that it is because I was initiated at Beltane instead of waiting for Samhain. I maintain that if things were set into such an uproar, it would have been WORSE if I had waited for Samhain,if the goddess sets harder tasks then.....any thoughts on this?? Are they being truthful, or just making magickal excuses for mundane drama, or is it interrelated? :nuhuh:

[Wolf O Volos]

I would honestly have to tell you to take that up with your coven. Since you choose to be initiated into a coven, by a coven, then it would be their oppinions that you would seek for the validation of your question. Although in my *oppinion* these things are best answered by you, you know your own spirituality, and if not, keep in mind that we all see Her in different ways, and listen to her yourself and see what she tells you.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it is worth, and I hope I may have helped.

[-Ember]

Well, having your life rearrange dramatically before and/or after initiation is not uncommon. It can be made worse in some ways if you do it early because it compresses the process and it is less likely you will have hit the balance that allows you to ride over some of the changes fairly unscathed. However, dragging it out can lead to other problems, like losing the momentum.


Are they being truthful, or just making magickal excuses for mundane drama, or is it interrelated?

My instinct is to say yes to all of the above. If they really felt you hadn't quite gotten the skill to cope with initiation easily, it is reasonable to see this as the process forcing you to learn it ASAP. To put too much stress on it is not reasonable, however. Anything being forced to change by the process would get roughed up whenever you initiated if it was not something you would have changed in the intervening 6 months anyway. Further, you choose to continue against their warning which probably means this was the lesson you needed to learn with initiation. Hallows or Beltaine, this is your challenge and you wouldn't be you if you had waited for Hallows.

[Jenett]

It is sort of hard to tell.

On the whole, I think allowing more time for the process (especially if there are still some obvious challenges to work through) tends to make it easier (both on you, and other people around you.)

On the other hand, that doesn't mean you should never go the faster route: just that you need to be aware what it's likely going to involve.

On the third hand, part of initiation in many traditions is that you sort of regain 'adult, can make all your own decision' status (in many traditions: don't know about your group, students/pre-initiates are somewhat protected in various ways). So you get to deal with the results now.

I've incidentally never heard of two-times-a-year initiation options, nor harder 'tasks' at Samhain. Most of the traditions I'm familiar with initiate either according to when someone's ready, or prefer sometime around Imbolc.

[Old Witch]

Well...thats why I'm solitary...can't stand anyone else telling me what's "best" for me.

[Phoenix Blue]

I maintain that if things were set into such an uproar, it would have been WORSE if I had waited for Samhain,if the goddess sets harder tasks then.....any thoughts on this?? Are they being truthful, or just making magickal excuses for mundane drama, or is it interrelated?
They're being manipulative, is what they're being. Like OW said, that's why I'm solitary, too. Don't walk away from that coven ... run.

[Witchzee1]

Well...thats why I'm solitary...can't stand anyone else telling me what's "best" for me.
http://mysticwicks.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gifhttp://mysticwicks.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

Me too!

[Lunacie]

I know this won't help now, but when I was first introduced to the Wiccan path and joined a brand-spanking new coven, when the others suggested that I was ready for initiation I went off by myself for about half an hour and meditated, asking the four quarters and the god and goddess to help me know if I was truly ready. I did the same thing each time the leader of the Circle/Group said I was ready to advance to the next level. Each time the still small voice within me that I accessed through meditation agreed that it truly was the right time to do this.

Please don't go by what someone else tells you about yourself without checking with your own inner spirit and knowingness as well.

[-Ember]

There is something to the run suggestion. A coven should have trust as one of its primary attribuites. If you really, honestly believe (as opposed to a random moment of doubt... it happens) that it is possible that they are manipulating your spirituality in order to play drama king/queen, you shouldn't be trusting yourself to them. Do you really trust the people telling you this to be doing so sincerely and with your best interests in mind? Whatever we might say about if we think they are right or not, do you trust them to not be knowingly misinforming you for their own purposes? If you do, talk to them. That is what they are there for. If you don't, if you trust us more (and just online contacts shouldn't be able to know you as well as your coven) I'd reconsider the coven.

[charmedkisses1]

It sounds like your coven is/was on a power trip. I hope things work out for your good. :smoochypo

[Dove]

Well...thats why I'm solitary...can't stand anyone else telling me what's "best" for me. *nodding*
That's my feelings exactly!!

But I don't know Redlady ...
Something is just ringing a "that's not right" warning bell in me.
I hope you'll keep us udtated on your progress.

And please please ....
Listen to your own intuitions,
Only you can honestly know what's right for you!!

[Phoenix Blue]

Something is just ringing a "that's not right" warning bell in me.
Same here! *Smiles* Maybe it's that "We know what's good for you and you don't" bell.

[Isis Diana]

Solitary all the way! Don't let anyone else try and tell you what is best for you. If the God/ess have told you that you're ready, then you are...along with that, you should never do anything that YOU do not feel ready for. Don't let other people try to tell you how you feel, or how you SHOULD feel. If they keep busting your chops, well they don't sound very supportive...

Just my opinion :)
-Isis

[Wolf O Volos]

Mind that we all respect the decision to be involved in a coven now.... although I am solitary myself, it sounded to me that the involvement of a coven was wanted in the beginning of the thread.

[-Ember]

It doesn't have to be a power trip. They could be trying to explain something from their experience and lore and just not conveying it well... and second or third-hand it sounds even worse to us. I don't know them, no one else here knows them, only redlady knows them. The rest of us really can't tell. This is where the trust comes in. If that trust isn't there (and I don't mean blind trust, I'm talking about eyes-open-you-KNOW-what-they-are-likely-to-do trust) redlady shouldn't be.

I do somewhat feel compelled to speak up for covens in general. I don't know if it is because others have only met poor examples of covens or just stereotypes of covens, but I hardly am willing to let others dictate what is "best" for me and I am fine within a coven. One of my Priests (and the founder of the grove I am part of) has as his favorite definitions of a coven "a group of solitaries who have agreed to play nice." In a good coven you don't lose individuality. You don't lose self definition. It is like a good marriage, or family, where each person keeps themselves but also creates something that encompasses all involved.

One reason for being in a coven is to have experience to draw from. It isn't (or ought ot be) simply people telling you what to do, but elders with advice based on experience and gleaned from their elders. Stuff along the lines of "it is not a good idea to put your hand on the hot stove." Usually you aren't going to get scolded for disregarding advice, but I get "I told you so" from my elders, and have seen them get it from their's. Part of the "learning" experience tends to be learning when to take and when to disregard their advice. It might be as simple as that sort of situation. It could also be abusive, but without knowing the coven I certainly don't know. Only Redlady does. If her instincts tell her to run, well and good that she do so. But I hope it isn't just because she gets a lot of advice that seem to be supporting that the coven must be presumed abusive and powerhungry merely because it is a coven.

[-Ember]

If they keep busting your chops, well they don't sound very supportive...

Just to make a point, covens aren't just about support. Many are also about helping someone become a strong person, and sometimes that can be about struggle and challenge. It is something that has to be watched and is open to abuse... but most similar processes are. Just look at your adverage sports team or the military or Phd/masters program or...etc