The Dead Sea Scrolls ...........

[Swanspirit]

"In 1947, young Bedouin shepherds, searching for a stray goat in the Judean Desert, entered a
long-untouched cave and found jars filled with ancient scrolls. That initial discovery by the Bedouins
yielded seven scrolls and began a search that lasted nearly a decade and eventually produced
thousands of scroll fragments from eleven caves. During those same years, archaeologists searching
for a habitation close to the caves that might help identify the people who deposited the scrolls,
excavated the Qumran ruin, a complex of structures located on a barren terrace between the cliffs
where the caves are found and the Dead Sea. Within a fairly short time after their discovery,
historical, paleographic, and linguistic evidence, as well as carbon-14 dating, established that the
scrolls and the Qumran ruin dated from the third century B.C.E. to 68 C.E. They were indeed
ancient! Coming from the late Second Temple Period, a time when Jesus of Nazareth lived, they are
older than any other surviving biblical manuscripts by almost one thousand years.

Since their discovery nearly half a century ago, the scrolls and the identity of the nearby settlement
have been the object of great scholarly and public interest, as well as heated debate and controversy.
Why were the scrolls hidden in the caves? Who placed them there? Who lived in Qumran? Were its
inhabitants responsible for the scrolls and their presence in the caves? Of what significance are the
scrolls to Judaism and Christianity?"
Even MORE importantly, to me .... of what significance are these ancient scrolls to pagans ? These scrolls were thought to pose such a danger to the Western Judao-Christian world they were held hostage by scholars for years, as not suitable for public consumption. Why?? because the ancient Hebrew GODS were not only NOT ONE GOD but also had MATES ... Goddesses who were equal in power to what were considered to be the creators of the world ; and the Omnipotent and Omniscient "god".
Would any one care to pursue an investigation of these most wonderful documents and do we have any suggestions as to how we shall frame this thread ???

Love and Light
Swannie

[EasternPriest]

A few basics to begin with:

Most researchers attribute the Dead Sea Scrolls to the priesthood of a Jewish sect known as the Essenes.

It is likely that the area excavated near the caves "Qumran" was a monastic community of this sect.

Bickering among various scholars looking for publication rights, awards, etc..... delayed publishing images of the scrolls for 40+ years.

Several of the books are copies of Old Testament manuscripts. One of the most complete manuscripts is a copy of the Book Of Isaiah, almost identical to modern translations in use today.

Some of the scrolls seem unique to the Essene teachings, including one called "The Teacher of Righteousness," which is messianic in nature.

Other of the scrolls are community records, storage inventories, population counts, etc.....

[Swanspirit]

They are some of the earliest known sources of what is accepted as "scripture" which is what makes them so valuable and outstanding.
Many , since their long withheld publication; have speculated the the "Righteous Teacher "
may have actually been the person that is called christ.
The publication was withheld from fear ....
that is well known and documented .... fear of what effect the writing would have on the Modern Judao-Christian Community , who had in the past heavily relied on the " holy sciptures "
as proof of the divine message of one true god.
The reasons were put out that they were withheld because of rights but that is not the true reason, at least that is not what I have read time and time again, in reference to the scrolls.
There is dispute among archeologists about the existence of a sect, and some propose that Qumram was a Roman fort and that "the scrolls are from Jerusalem libraries, encompassing a wide variety of non-sectarian as well as sectarian materials. "
But the part that interests me as a pagan is the obvious connection between what are known to be local gods and goddesses of the time and region, and the gods represented by the scrolls . Especially the Goddess ecause I do see the discovery of the scrolls as a synchronistic event in the gradual re-emergence of the Goddess consciouosness . I dont expect non pagans to understand that , but that is one of the things I want to discuss here in this thread .
Love and Light
Swannie

[EasternPriest]

B.A.R. -Biblical Archeology Review was responsible for finally releasing photo images of the original manuscripts to the general public. Conspiracy theories aside, it was primarily academic pride which kept the manuscripts private for so long.

As far as "goddess" connotations, the scripts are hebrew/aramaic in origin, and therefore monotheistic. In the hebrew tradition, there is one God, Creator of the universe.

[Swanspirit]

Missed the point , and I really REALLY dont want to turn this discussion into one of those black or white all or nothing "debates which go nowhere " which happen frequently on this board. As I said I dont expect a non pagan to understand .......about synchronicity, the appearance or existence of the Goddess, or the gradual evolution of the BCE Hebrew traditions.....( My Grandmother was Orthodox ...... JEW ) from a previous tradition which embraced ASHERAH as the MATE and CONSORT of YAHWEH as is found in evidence from antiquity
and the Dead Sea scrolls ........ This is a pagan board .. I was hoping to discuss a PAGAN
Phenomenon ......if that cant happen .... I would rather not discuss this at all , with the emphasis on discussion .
Love and Light
Swannie

[EasternPriest]

Discussion is good. The fact that this is a "pagan" board has little to do with what the facts are.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are, in and of thenselves, a good topic for discussion. They are Hebrew/Aramaic in nature, not pagan.

If the scrolls do infact support a goddess, then so be it. But let's discuss them in a factual manner. There shouldn't be a problem with that.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by EasternPriest
Discussion is good. The fact that this is a "pagan" board has little to do with what the facts are.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are, in and of thenselves, a good topic for discussion. They are Hebrew/Aramaic in nature, not pagan.

If the scrolls do infact support a goddess, then so be it. But let's discuss them in a factual manner. There shouldn't be a problem with that.

I agree... Is Aramaic the language of Jesus's Disciples? Or did Hollywood screw with my mind once again?

[Swanspirit]

and it is because as a pagan I deal with things that are outside the left brained factual world ......things like intuition , body sensing clairvoyance , clairaudience ...... memories of past lives...... searching out ideas that "just the facts MAAM " wont support .......and that is part of the problem ..... in having a discussion in just a factual manner ......leaves out realms and realms of my pagan existence , and you can go ahead and say "well it isnt very valid if isnt supported by facts " but I have MOVED beyond that and explore entire worlds that way . It is who I am , the very air I breathe and the world in which I live ......look at this art I did based on something that happened to me at Stonehenge ......... do you think any facts can support that ???I am in a mystical realm , and the facts wont call the Barge or cross the Mists ......
Love and Light
Swannie

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
and it is because as a pagan I deal with things that are outside the left brained factual world ......things like intuition , body sensing clairvoyance , clairaudience ...... memories of past lives...... searching out ideas that "just the facts MAAM " wont support .......and that is part of the problem ..... in having a discussion in just a factual manner ......leaves out realms and realms of my pagan existence , and you can go ahead and say "well it isnt very valid if isnt supported by facts " but I have MOVED beyond that and explore entire worlds that way . It is who I am , the very air I breathe and the world in which I live ......look at this art I did based on something that happened to me at Stonehenge ......... do you think any facts can support that ???I am in a mystical realm , and the facts wont call the Barge or cross the Mists ......
Love and Light
Swannie

I do not think he was saying to completely leave out spirituality from the discussion, I think all he was saying was that we should look at the facts as well as the spirtual, if these Scrolls do have something to do with Christianity, then I am sure he would have a spiritual attachment to them as well. Pherhaps he wanted to look at the facts because the facts are undebateabul, its whats written so is what is agreed upon. And Spirituality is a very controversial sucject. WHich could be why he wanted to leave that out...

[EasternPriest]

Originally posted by MistOfTheSea86


I agree... Is Aramaic the language of Jesus's Disciples? Or did Hollywood screw with my mind once again?

Most of the disciples who traveled with Jesus spoke Aramaic and/or Hebrew. There were probably also a few who understood some Latin, Greek, and Egyptian.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by EasternPriest


Most of the disciples who traveled with Jesus spoke Aramaic and/or Hebrew. There were probably also a few who understood some Latin, Greek, and Egyptian.

Ah, I see. Thanx:)

[EasternPriest]

Spirituality is a good thing. It is hard, however, to have a discussion about archeological artifacts, the culture, their implication for the past and the future, without exploring the facts of what they are, and what they are not.

Right brain or left brain really doesn't enter into it. It's also not a matter of Pagan versus Christian, for the Dead Sea Scrolls are neither.

[MistOfTheSea86]

I see... Pardon all these I see's, but I am learning new things and you can exptect to see that ALOT more often. LOL

[story]

Originally posted by EasternPriest


Most of the disciples who traveled with Jesus spoke Aramaic and/or Hebrew. There were probably also a few who understood some Latin, Greek, and Egyptian.

was aramaic a written as well as a spoken language? I was under the impression for some reason that it was strictly a spoken derivative of some other ancient languge. But I have no idea.

[EasternPriest]

Originally posted by story


was aramaic a written as well as a spoken language? I was under the impression for some reason that it was strictly a spoken derivative of some other ancient languge. But I have no idea.
Yes aramaic was/is a written language as well. It is similar to, thought not identical, to hebrew.

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
Does anyone know where we can read these?I'm just curious,but until we can read them,we don't really have the facts.We're left to discuss what we "heard" was in them.Or to think on the possibilities.
I've heard and read a lot about Asherah.It's really interesting.I saw a show recently about this on the Discovery Channel on its' "Archaeology" series.The scholars seemed to be about equally divided on whether this Goddess existed,and also had ideas about her being mentioned in the "Scrolls".There certainly are a lot of small figurines of a woman that were common all over what was Israel during its' existence..Planted in the groves,etc.
A lot of the idea for this woman/Goddess comes from the Old Testament.A goddess in the temple of Solomon.The use of language that seems to connotate the feminine rather than the masculine.
I would think that many of the common people continued with the worship of a Goddess alongside the preferred God of the authorities.The prophets are always trying to tear down the high places,where the Goddess might be worshipped.It seems the ancient Israelis were always somewhat torn between worshipping one God,as the priests said,and the worship of local and historical Hebrew deities.It seems that way when I read it,anyway.They were in what was a crossroads between different continents.They must have seen,and learned from,all manner of religions.So there very well could be mention of an Asherah in the Dead Sea Scrolls.But until I read them,I'll never know.
Peace and Love
BrightStar

[Swanspirit]

here is one link
There are lots of good ones out there :>


http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/world.scrolls.html

Glad to be discussing this with you :>
Love and Light
Swannie

[EasternPriest]

Here's a few sources for a start:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/toc.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/overview.html

http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/

http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/PROJ/SCR/Scrolls.html

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
Thanks for the links.I have a question.How come they speak of loads of texts and info,but then I keep finding the same 10 or so texts?I guess I need to find a book that does them all,I'll bet it would be a big book,though.
In the "Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifices",who are the "godlike beings"?
Oh,on the Asherah question.Another reason scholars say she did exist,is the name of the tribe of Asher.Those scholars claim the tribe was named after the Goddess.She was supposedly a Canaanite goddess too,the wife of the Supreme god they called El.I just think some people in the area never gave her up.
But I didn't see anything in the Scrolls I've read so far to think they would mention her.At least not any more than the tiny glimpses in the Old Testament.
Peace and Love
BrightStar

[IOLO]

I don't think "goddess awareness" ever went away....and I don't believe it was ever as large as modern revisionists would like to make it....I really have never seen any evidence that it was in effect the mirror image of the current patriarchic religion or as pervasive. I think recent feminists have tried to give divine sanction to their agenda by recreating something which never existed in the first place.

In reviewing history one has to be extremely careful not to "taint" your interpretations with the currently prevailing view. The Egyptians had both gods and goddesses.....but there is much evidence to show that a "male" god was at the center of their religion....despite the very important and prominent role that goddesses such as Isis played.

I think 20th century American feminism has done more harm than good to the "restoration" of goddess consciousnes....because they go at it with an agenda....an axe to grind....

My unsolicitied opinion...hehehe

Merry Be!!

IL IOLOissimo