Initiation? Dedication? Your thoughts?

[DandelionDame]

I searched for threads on Initiation & Dedication but they didn't really apply to what I'd like to ask all of you. I'll try to be as concise as possible.

Background: I'm not a total newbie (I've been studying Witchy stuff for about 16 years - lots of "book smarts", but only started applying what I've learned in the past few years, and very gradually). I understand that Initiation generally refers to Initiation into a coven. I have no coven and don't want one. I also understand that "Self-Initiation" essentially officially dedicates one to a chosen path (and that some people don't believe in its validity and some do). And that in general Initiation is a metaphorical death of the "old" you and the birth of the "new" and spiritually-focused you. It seems to really set things in action for some people, both good and bad and if one is not ready for it, then one is asking for trouble. Or something like that. For what it's worth, my beliefs aren't of the Wiccan variety but that may be irrelevant to the question, as I welcome all responses!

I came across something recently that I'm just trying to understand. In researching Hecate's Night (November 16 - and please correct me if that's wrong!), I read that that is the night when people who have heard her call or just otherwise want to follow her are "initiated" into her mysteries, knowledge, teaching, etc. - and I'm not entirely sure I understand Initiation as applied to one deity vs. a path. Would that technically be dedication? What does one vs. the other mean to you?

I don't want to limit responses to just Hecate-related - my mind just can't seem to answer its own question today and I'm curious as to what you all think. And I'll gladly clarify if this makes little sense.

That wasn't very concise at all.

[MorningDove030202]

In your example of Hecate's followers being initatied, they are becoming Priestesses or Priests of Hecate. There are conflicting POV on if you need to be in a coven to use titles, but you can Dedicate yourself to her in a solitary fastion, which is what I have done with Athena.

Also the information you gave may be speaking of a historical practice, as in the ancient Cult of Hecate may have done their initations on that night, which means that those being refered to are probably already dedicated to the Hellenic faith (or is she roman?) and are taking another initation to become a Priestess of Hecate. So it's not path vs diety, it's intiation to path then initation to a specific diety.

But like I said you don't have to have a specific path or organization to be dedicated to a diety. Just don't expect the Hellenic Recons to consider you clergy because you did a self dedication/initation to Hecate.

Dove

[Ben Gruagach]

I'd like to reinforce the idea that initiation is often used to refer to a number of different things:

- formal acceptance into a specific organized group
- a spiritual milestone or turning point usually described as a moment of direct contact with the Divine in some form and the transformation in your self that results from that contact

And to make things even more confusing, the word initiation is often used when what is really meant is a personal dedication to something whether it's a particular path or a particular deity. (These are what are sometimes called "self-initiations" but I think are really more accurately called "self-dedications.")

I agree that the Hecate initiations sound to me like they probably refer to a specific organized cult of Hecate that would perform its acceptace rituals on a specific date. In the absence of a formal group to do this, a solitary could certainly do a dedication to Hecate if they feel drawn to Her. But as MorningDove pointed out if you want to join a formal group you'd still need to find the group and then go through whatever process they have in place in order to be accepted as one of them. We can't just give ourselves titles in organized groups in established Pagan religions any more than someone can just declare themselves a Roman Catholic priest without the authorization of the Vatican.

[DandelionDame]

Ah, now it's making more sense. Initiation definitely sounds like a group thing, especially historically speaking (which is the context that I was trying to understand this in just for my own clarity, as I prefer the historical understanding of anything before jumping off into personal experience). Thank you for the insightful responses, Morning Dove and Ben G.!

I have been thinking about the Hellenic path - I adore the reconstructionists' way of doing this, but there are none in real life anywhere near me, so I probably won't ever get an initiation and education in that sense! But the dedication is certainly something to think on.

Any further thoughts are most welcome!

[Alexandra Asinine]

I agree with the idea that Initiation is a group thing. Is the sacred experience of a Mystery Religion, not something you can do alone. Dedication, however, is something that I feel can and is done by solitaries or on one's own outside of one's group. For me, Dedication was a rebirth.

[Theres]

Ah, now it's making more sense. Initiation definitely sounds like a group thing, especially historically speaking...
yeah, well...
i think it does make things clearer to leave the word 'coven' out of the mix. however, i'm not sure that initiation needs to be "a group thing" necessarily... but i DO think that an initiation needs to be done by a third party, which may or may not necessitate a group setting.

so, is that confusing enough?

[DandelionDame]

Darn it, Theres, and just when I thought I actually understood it!:hehehehe: Looks like there's more intense thinking in the immediate future of this Dame. Heh.


yeah, well...
i think it does make things clearer to leave the word 'coven' out of the mix. however, i'm not sure that initiation needs to be "a group thing" necessarily... but i DO think that an initiation needs to be done by a third party, which may or may not necessitate a group setting.

so, is that confusing enough?

[Ben Trismegistus]

Darn it, Theres, and just when I thought I actually understood it!:hehehehe: Looks like there's more intense thinking in the immediate future of this Dame. Heh.
What he's saying is that one possible definition is that "initiation" is something done to you by someone else, while "dedication" is something you do to yourself. Either can happen in a group or out of a group.

But other than that, I'll hold my tongue, because I've gotten into it with Ben G in the past about the looseness of certain definitions. :)

[MorningDove030202]

I also kinda think of some initiations as graduations, like when you finish your first degree.

Dove