Ghosts

[Earth Walker]

Do you think ghost phenomena will someday be explained
by science?

[Amora]

That's tough to answer because I think some scientists think they've already explained it...

[sarhea]

I figure, most likely they will,but Amora's right,, unnfortunately, some scientist's think they've already figured it out
~Sar

[Dellit Tandannon]

i suppose it may be possible, but probably not

[sherry]

I hope that someday they will be able to explain why some can see them and others do not. I am one who has been able to see them since early childhood and other people at work and here at home are in the same room as me and I will see and hear them and they do not. Some can feel them but never see them. Even Blue could feel the one here at my home now but he never could see or hear him.

This one at my home his name is Daniel and is an elderly native american man that has helped me understand why I was drawn to this house and why even tho it was a mess I knew it was my home. His cats also knew when Daniel came into the house it made them a nervous wreck.

[Dellit Tandannon]

i went to a cemetary a few nights ago with a couple friends to visit a friend's grave site and while we were there i saw a man walk right past us and neither of my friends saw him :eek: its happened to me before, but that was really bad timing! it was dark, cold, and i was in a cemetary!

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by Dellit Tandannon
i went to a cemetary a few nights ago with a couple friends to visit a friend's grave site and while we were there i saw a man walk right past us and neither of my friends saw him :eek: its happened to me before, but that was really bad timing! it was dark, cold, and i was in a cemetary!

Hey I thought you really were into the Astral Plane studies Dellit. Pherhaps you are more spirtually prone to those kind of Phenonmenon.

And as well, I do not think Science will ever find a COMPLETE answer to ghosts. Ghosts are not some atom or electromagnetic differencial in the space-time contunium or such. They are vistors from the other side. From another dimension you could say. But one thing is for sure, well I think so anyways, Science wont figure it out....

[Earth Walker]

:ghost: ...there's one now...hehehe 8O

No, seriously....I have felt the presence of Kelly, a girl who used
to live in my apt., and while I have never seen her, I have
actually felt her bump me occasionally....and the cats see her.

[Myst]

Nope. I think certain things are beyond the realm of scientific explanation for a reason.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by Willow Raven
Nope. I think certain things are beyond the realm of scientific explanation for a reason.

Exactly...

[Swanspirit]

and it depends on what kind of science ........
the Science of the Paranormal already has a great deal of information on "ghosts"........
I have seen pics and film ......
have a look at this I took myself at a pagan festival ........
and I have seen a ghost more than one ...... long story ...........
Have a look and see what you see?
Love and light
Swannie
:ghost: :ghost:

[Andromeda]

I voted for no. I doubt that science will ever find an explanation for ghosts. There is just some things science can't prove.

[Swanspirit]

Because "science" comes up with an explanation
does that make something less spiritual ??

HUGS
Swannie

[Illuminatus]

Like this one: WHAT ghost phenomena.

jeez, someone photographs a mirror, sees their flash reflected and yells "GHOST" and calls the discovery channel and they make a big show with spooky music and bad cinematography, and it's a phenomenon. And don't get me started on that quack guy on the sci-fi channel who thinks he can talk to dead people, but really only has REALLY GOOD RESEARCHERS on his staff.

- Illuminatus!

[slvr_phoenix]

Well, since science is an ever-evolving self-improving phenominon, I say one day it will handle ghosts perfectly fine. I mean at one time 'science' thought that the Earth was flat. At one time 'science' thought that the sun revolved around the Earth. At one time 'science' thought a lot of incorrect things. At one time 'science' couldn't explain much of anything.

Yet look at how much 'science' has managed to expand in the last millenium, or in the last two centuries, or in the last century, or even in the last decade.

I have no difficulty believing that one day 'science' will have an explanation for anything and everything.

[clef0628]

I can feel ghosts but, not see. Thou, I think once "Wendy" did show herself to me. You, see ever since my childhood, I've been playfully haunted by the ghost of a young girl. I only saw her once. But, I can tell when she is around or touch me. She likes to hold on to me a lot. I'm not sure of her name or anything about her, so I call her "Wendy".

As for science being able to explain ghosts, really is up to the people who are going to explain it. If they don't believe in ghosts they would explain it a lot differently then someone who did.

[Swanspirit]

with healing....... the explanations for acupuntcure and hands on and Reiki have been more and more "scientific" and the system is no less spiritual in nature .....because we identify energy paths that course through the body ..... doesnt make the experience of them less ecstatic.....
So if the energy that spirits have id identified will it make them any less ??
Love and light
Swannie

[Illuminatus]

They are actually the ancient spirits of dead souls, called "Thetans", who have been imprisoned on earth and inhabit our bodies. You can have these confusing spirits extracted from your body with a simple "zeta scan", of course it will cost you, and you need to take several classes to qualify for treatment by the Church of Scientology. It's all here:

www.xenu.net

Please people this is my path which I believe in so do not bash me please okay? thanks! :elf:

- Illuminatus!

[Myst]

That made me giggle, Illy.

Sorry :)

Ok, let me explain my belief on how science is not meant to prove everything. As I understand, scientific proof, by definition, usually implies something that can be studied, proven, or known - usually by finding a situation wherein results are predictable and will be found again if another scientist uses the same method. In other words, it can be 'proven' if a scientist witnesses it and another scientist after the same procedure witnesses the same thing.

When was the last time you sat down and decided to see a ghost and did? Can you perform that method again and get the exact same results (stand in the same spot, look in the same direction, and see the same ghost at the same time you did before with the same room temperature and weather conditions, etc.)? Can another scientist follow that method (do exactly as you did) and get the exact same results? Can you suggest a tool that indicates exactly what a ghost is composed of, where they come from, or why not everyone sees them or speaks to them?

Certainly, there are mysteries we are not capable of understanding. Where we go after this life, why the Gods let us hurt Mother Earth, how we were created (or evolved, for that matter).... these things are simply beyond our scope. Do you sincerely believe we are meant to know every secret, every reason, every truth? If we did, what would our purpose be in this life? Do not we often spend our lives learning and growing? Is it not true that if we reached perfection we could no longer grow, and isn't it true that things that stagnate generally die? For me, existence is a constant quest for knowledge and understanding, and one that brings us far beyond this plane. Thus, I don't think science will ever explain everything there is to know.

Beyond that - does science come in the way of spirituality? Depends on your beliefs. In my case, yes. Science is an "in the box" way of thinking - you classify, and you prove, and you sort, and you label. In my opinion, certain things are so basic, and so beyond classification (partly because of what I've said above), that to classify them is to box them in, and to do that is to limit them. For instance, if I were to believe that all Pagans were devil worshippers, then I would classify you as a devil worshipper. If I believed that to be the absolute complete truth, then there's no way you could tell me different. By classifying you I've severely limited our interaction - I can't hear your philosophies on life, on morals, on spirituality, or other topics I might consider "hedonistic". By classifying you that way I've cut myself off from experiencing you - I'm just so certain you're what I've classified you that I forget to examine otherwise. And this is only example involving simple things like definitions of religion, very human and close to us as compared to such things as ghosts and fae.

To me, spiritual things such as ghosts are so magickal and beyond human understanding, that you just can't box them in by human classification. I know, in my workings, that the moment I try to label and classify my experiences they start to fade away - like dreams that disappear when you try to remember them...

Yes some scientific findings have run in parallel with magickal things we believe to be true. In your example, reiki. However, I can't do reiki, even though by definition if I perform the same procedure as someone else who can I should be able to. So, the answers about it have certainly not all been found.

I know this is longwinded but I hope it offers some classification and more basis for discussion. :)

[Swanspirit]

At all........good typing practice maybe..... JUST KIDDING!!!!!
I think you at least took a definition that we are all assuming we are using the as the same basis for the question ; "science", and defined your usage, which clarifies things greatly in any discussion.
Really, according to any scientific defintion
that requires that you can replicate the same results , a lot of what we call spiritual phenomenon falls short of the mark........ and I am not saying we will eventually prove everything either ......I dont think that is possible , and would be boring :zzz: :zzz:.
I cant imagine life without mysteries. But now we have science that deals with random events .... and I think that some of what we now consider mysteries might be explained by that type of approach ...... or perhaps we will someday have a science we havent yet even used or discovered .
I have seen ghosts ....... and I have no "proof to offer anyone......but how do I explain it to myself ..... Ihave to live with what I know ..... with or without proof for others ......
but then people who dont beleive in magic ask for "proof" ............from pagans ......
Love and light
Swannie

[IOLO]

I think that science will eventually have an explanation...( not swamp gas or indigestion either...haha)......I personally believe ghosts will become more "intelligble " to us the more we begin to understand holographic models of the universe such as proposed by Karl Pribram or Itzhak Bentov...and perhaps "string" theory also.

I personally think that ghosts are like "after images" such as when you turn a light off. Somehow also they are "recordings"....much in the same way that fossil fuels when burned are actually releasing the stored up energy of the sun from thousands...maybe millions of years ago.

(I think that's all I can say here as they won't post any long replies I make)

IOLO

[Swanspirit]

Are you sure the replies arent longer than the space allowed ??
Sceince must have an explanation :>
HUGS
Swanooee

[IOLO]

....well as I often tell my students....there is no "supernatural"...only the natural which is not understood at the moment.....I think Ghosts are a natural phenomenon.....It's all tied up in space and time.....I think the "interactive ones" are as puzzled with us---the ghost "viewers"---as we are with them.....I think also it has to do with the "fabric" of the universe.....lotsa things involved.....But I firmly believe they are real things....it's not imagination....just another wonderful thing to explore.

"POSTS"???....well compared with some of yours...and others I have seen in this place...mine are a mere sentence compared with a tome.....no...I just think "the management" doesn't like the contents....sort of like that other posting board....

Plus for some reason, I am not allowed to start a thread....have given up trying that...oh well....

IOLO

[Swanspirit]

is edited here someone tells you about it ???
go to the help section and ask someone??
HUGS
Swannia

[IOLO]

Speaking of "threads"...and since they won't allow me to start one....perhaps I could prevail upon you to start it.....I'll e-mail you the details...but basically I was wondering when people "celebrate" the "Cross-Quarter" days....Beltane, Lughnasadh,Samhain, Imbolg.....and why.....by the Calendar.....by the astrological mid-point....or by the 1/2-way point between solstices and equinoxes.....they all are different.....

I was wondering peoples ideas....and why they choose the day they do....

I'll e-mail ya...

Der IOLOmeister

[IOLO]

No...they're just "refused".....even though I do all the things they say to do......I get told I'm not "authorized" to post in a certain forum....or I'm not logged in ( when I am)...or I haven't specified a certain "thread" or whatever....I've done a test....it seems to be content based.....hey...I ran into the same problem at the other place....if you don't follow "the orthodoxy" you don't speak....but that's OK....it's their room....

[Swanspirit]

and lets see what the problem might be ???
HUGS
Swannie

[IOLO]

Done....I e-mailed you.....It's really pretty innoccous ( is it 2 c's or n's??...hehehe) ......but I'd appreciate your posting something along that line....I really am curious as to others thinking on it...

Je te remercie....

Le IOLEAU

[Swanspirit]

MILLE Grazia..... and

Ciao Bambino :>
La Cygna

[mol]

Originally posted by IOLO
No...they're just "refused".....even though I do all the things they say to do......I get told I'm not "authorized" to post in a certain forum....or I'm not logged in ( when I am)...or I haven't specified a certain "thread" or whatever....I've done a test....it seems to be content based.....hey...I ran into the same problem at the other place....if you don't follow "the orthodoxy" you don't speak....but that's OK....it's their room....

Uh. No. We dont do that here. I dont know what the problem could be but it is not because there is a restraint put on your posting here.

Why not mention it in the Problems forum?

[mol]

Originally posted by IOLO
Done....I e-mailed you.....It's really pretty innoccous ( is it 2 c's or n's??...hehehe) ......but I'd appreciate your posting something along that line....I really am curious as to others thinking on it...

Je te remercie....

Le IOLEAU

Yes. You too can post a new thread. I logged in as you and posted a test thread in the problems forum.

[talamh]

i don't think what we call ghosts will ever be explained by science as we know it now because science as we know it now has much too narrow a view. Science is so encumbered by it's own limited insistance on the immutability of the three (and just maybe four) dimensions. There is so much more to the universe. bb talamh

[Socharis]

I say yes, they will explain it as the soul or an explosion of energy that has been permanantly copied onto the surronding areaor summut like that.

[Dria El]

I say yes because science is an evolutionary thing. It has its rules for now but as it discovers 'new and exciting things' those rules change. (as with everything else)

The only constant is change.

Just a thought...

[Myst]

Hrm I think I also should have added that that I study other planes and feel that this physical one is only one of many (ie. tree of life type stuff), so, for me, it wouldn't make sense that science (which is only on this plane) could explain everything, and probably not ghosts (being as I don't think they're of this plane) or dragons, et cetera. They might come up with something they think is a viable answer, but I don't think the absolute truth about things that aren't even of this plane will ever be proven by any study on this plane.

[Earth Shadow~]

I think that the whole problem with science 'figuring out' or 'explaining' what ghosts are exactly, is that it would involve a certain level of spirituality on their part. If they couldn't come up with a 'logical' explanation for them then they would write it off as not existing.

So I guess until they define and prove spirituality and make it a part of their rational thinking, there's no way for them to try to prove the existence of ghosts.

I myself, beleive in them, see them, hear them and feel them often.

Kinda of trippy, but they do exist.

:)

[Dria El]

Welcome to Mystic Wicks Earth Shadow~!!! So glad you made it ok!

:)

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

I don't actually believe in ghosts, but I dont think that science will ever explain most supernatural things like this........:ghost: