Origins of Theban

[mattolsen]

Hey I was wondering if anyone else had in their own research come accross any good sites that go over the origins of theban? If you do could you PM me or post a link?

Blessed Be

[Chidori]

Are you referring to the Theban Script? If so all I know is that it comes from the Grimoire of Honorius.

[Seren_]

Try omniglot (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/theban.htm)

There's actually a few versions of it out there on the web. It was attributed to Honorious of Thebes, but more likely it's a medieval invention.

You could try looking in Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy (http://www.esotericarchives.com/esoteric.htm), where I think it first appears, or try Francis Barrett's The Magus (http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/magus/index.htm). These might give some info on its origin, but it's probably best to take it with a pinch of salt...

[mattolsen]

Try omniglot (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/theban.htm)

There's actually a few versions of it out there on the web. It was attributed to Honorious of Thebes, but more likely it's a medieval invention.

You could try looking in Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy (http://www.esotericarchives.com/esoteric.htm), where I think it first appears, or try Francis Barrett's The Magus (http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/magus/index.htm). These might give some info on its origin, but it's probably best to take it with a pinch of salt...

I must be missing the three books of occult philosophy you refer too. I can only see one set of 3 books called steganographia.

[mattolsen]

Anyone have any idea the best way to learn latin besides going back to high school, changing my foreign language and paying attention?

[TYRRHENUS]

Anyone have any idea the best way to learn latin besides going back to high school, changing my foreign language and paying attention?Salve. S.V.B.E.V.

If you wish to learn latin, you should know that you'll be doing it the rest of your life. It never ends.
I suggest you start with textkit.com (http://www.textkit.com/), ask those folks what the best methods are (you'll get several answers), then take it from there.

Vale bene.

[Seren_]

Click on Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa (in the blurb about Trithemius), or scroll down to the bit called classical grimoires, and they're there too.

[mattolsen]

thanks guys

[Ben Gruagach]

Try omniglot (http://www.omniglot.com/writing/theban.htm)

There's actually a few versions of it out there on the web. It was attributed to Honorious of Thebes, but more likely it's a medieval invention.

You could try looking in Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy (http://www.esotericarchives.com/esoteric.htm), where I think it first appears, or try Francis Barrett's The Magus (http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/magus/index.htm). These might give some info on its origin, but it's probably best to take it with a pinch of salt...

Francis Barrett's "The Magus" came after Agrippa's "Three Books of Occult Philosophy." Most scholars consider Barrett's book to be essentially a plagiarized version of Agrippa's work.

There is a copy of Agrippa's work (which they've given a slightly different title) at http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/index.html

The main site, http://www.esotericarchives.com/ has lots of other grimoires too. But I think Seren is right that the Theban Script probably first appeared in Agrippa's book, at least in a published form. (Agrippa's books come across as his attempt to just bring together material from lots of other sources and put it into a coherent whole system of occult philosophy.)

[Seren_]

Francis Barrett's "The Magus" came after Agrippa's "Three Books of Occult Philosophy." Most scholars consider Barrett's book to be essentially a plagiarized version of Agrippa's work.

There is a copy of Agrippa's work (which they've given a slightly different title) at http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/index.html

The main site, http://www.esotericarchives.com/ has lots of other grimoires too. But I think Seren is right that the Theban Script probably first appeared in Agrippa's book, at least in a published form. (Agrippa's books come across as his attempt to just bring together material from lots of other sources and put it into a coherent whole system of occult philosophy.)

Yes, but I wondered if Barrett offered any more thoughts on it. While he did "draw" *ahem* a lot from Agrippa's work, there is a wee spark of originality in there too :D

[Ailinea]

Theban is listed in Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy (Chapter 29), and he attributes it to Peter Apponus quoting Honorius of Thebes. Donald Tyson, in his annotations, says that the alphabet is NOT in the Sworn Book of Honorius, nor is it in the Heptameron of Pietro d'Abano. Tyson then states that perhaps the alphabet appears in Peter's Conciliator, but he has not had a chance to research it.

Nigel Pennick's Magical Alphabets also states that the origins of the Theban script is unknown, but it was also common for people in Medieval and Renaissance esoteric circles to claim their information has origins in antiquity, "preferably to some ancient and notable sage." Heh...no big surprise there.

Pennick's book is a really fascinating read if you're ever interested in delving deeper into the science and magick of the written word. It's not an easy read, but when kept in mind, I think it makes the using scripts and alphabets have a little more impact.

[mattolsen]

Ailinea, where is that image in your signature from? I really like that.

[Ailinea]

Ailinea, where is that image in your signature from? I really like that.

I think you missed my reply the last time you asked. So I'll link back to it! (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=1426780#post1426780) But thank you! <beams> I'm glad you like it!

[DebLipp]

One interesting thing about Theban; I've done both English and Hebrew calligraphy. I'm convinced that Theban was designed to be written right-to-left, like Hebrew. I've never seen this mentioned anywhere, but the angle of the letters, and the location of their tails, is persuasive to me.

[mattolsen]

I think you missed my reply the last time you asked. So I'll link back to it! (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=1426780#post1426780) But thank you! <beams> I'm glad you like it!

I did miss it the first time, thanks for pointing me in the right direction with that info, I was able to find it online pretty quick with that.