Do what ye will?

[arctic splash]

How do you interpret the second part of the Wiccan Rede, 'do what ye will'?

I've heard people say that it means there are no restrictions on what we can do as long as we don't hurt anyone. However, I personally like the interpretation that I've come across (I think in Christopher Penczak's books?) that 'ye' refers to the higher self, and it really means to perform the will of the higher self... not to do whatever the heck you want.

[SamTheBlob]

thats an interesting thought. I read the Rede for the first time EVER last night, or more like this morning when i simply went skimmed through my new books. I didnt quite get that part, i didnt understand if it me myself or the god/dess.... So I assume this may perhaps enlighten my veiws on that part abit <('_'<) thank you

[RubyRose]

Thing is, the rede isn't simply comprised of eight words.
The full rede is comprised of 26 lines.

'An ye harm none, do what ye will'

Well that simply means. Harm no one. But at the same time, its also open to interpretation.
Really I like to think of the Rede in conjunction with 'Treats others as you yourself would like to be treated' By keeping this in mind, you get some insight to how others may perceive you by the things you do.

If you think that's confusing, I found the following while browsing on the web

"Rede" is derived from an Old English word "roedan" which means to guide or direct. One common version of the Rede is:

"An it harm none, do what thou wilt."

"An" and "wilt" are Old English words for "if" and "want to."

Alternate renderings of the Wiccan Rede are:

An it harm none, do as ye will
Ăn it harm none, do as ye will
An ye harm none, do what ye will.
A'in it harm none, do what thou wilt.
An' it harm none, do what thou wilt.
If it harms none, do what you will.
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, An' it harm none, do what ye will.
Do what you will as long as it harms none

The Rede states that a Wiccan is free to do what ever they want to, as long as it does not harm themselves or anyone else. Harm is normally considered to include manipulation, domination, attempts to control, physically injure, emotionally harm, or hurt another person or group in any way.



From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wicrede.htm

Bendithion,
RubyRose

[Phoenix Blue]

Moonstone, *smiles* I think it carries both meanings depending upon where in one's path one is. Someone who doesn't yet know how to listen to his higher self would indeed need to heed the entire 8 words. Someone who does know how to listen to his higher self, on the other hand, doesn't really need any of it.

People know, at some level, what we need to do when we face major, life-changing decisions. It's simply a matter of whether we choose to act upon what we know in our deepest hearts is right.

[Temptation]

To me it means that no matter what you do in this life you should always take care not to intentionally or unconsciously cause any harm to anyone. It means that you need to put a lot of thought and attention into how you live your life and especially how you use magic along the way. Everything we do and say has an impact on at least one other being in this world, even if that other being is just ourselves. I believe that the "harm none" applies to our own self as much as other people.

But then again, I'm not Wiccan, so what do I know, huh?;);)

[Mab]

I have always interpreted it two ways:

do what you desire provided you aren't messing with somebody else. (which I myself don't follow b/c I don't see how anything could NOT effect somebody else in some way, and we, as humans, have such limited vision, how can we know that our spell to heal ourselves or whatever won't effect somebody in times to come or across the globe?)

and

make manifest through force of will--extert your "will" in the form of energy to "do" --manifest that which you want/will to happen. Sort of like "Don't just sit there & wish---make your thoughts into actions & things." (This is one I adhere to, even though I'm not Wiccan--b/c to me magic is just force of will.)

[Wiccamagikal]

Merry Meet
I have always interpreted it as follows: Do what you want, just dont hurt anyone..or Anything..
AND..Do what the higher spirits would..Like the "WWJD" you know, dont do anything that the god/goddess would not partake in...Thats just my views though, of course everyone is entitled to their own! lol
Blessed Be,

[morrigan]

How do you interpret the second part of the Wiccan Rede, 'do what ye will'?

I've heard people say that it means there are no restrictions on what we can do as long as we don't hurt anyone. However, I personally like the interpretation that I've come across (I think in Christopher Penczak's books?) that 'ye' refers to the higher self, and it really means to perform the will of the higher self... not to do whatever the heck you want.


now you've done it..you've tweeked my interest.I'm going to have to stop reading the book i was on and get out my penczak book and read it instead..lol
from what i looked at in the book though he talks about the higher self as being a part of us so it would still be a matter of doing what we will, just a more intune part of ourselves..but i only skimmed that part i could have missed something
he said in the book that the important part of the rede is the harm none part..
he also says you can do what ever you want but you must accept the consequences of your actions,
i guess though however one interperates it the essence of it is do no harm..
Blessed Be ~Morrigan~

[PoisonIvy]

Bide you the Wiccan laws you must, in perfect love and perfect trust.
Live and let live, fairly take and fairly give.
Cast the circle thrice about, to keep the unwelcome spirits out.
To bind the spell every time, let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye and light of touch, speak little and listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the Wiccan rune.
Widdershins go by the waning moon, chanting out the baleful tune.
When the Lady's moon is new, kiss your hand to Her times two.
When the moon rides at Her peak, then the heart's desire seek.
Heed the North wind's mightly gale, lock the door and trim the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss you on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the West, departed spirits will have no rest.
When the wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.
Nine woods in the cauldron go, burn them quick and burn them slow.
Elder be the Lady's tree, burn it not or cursed you'll be.
When the wheel begins to turn, let the Beltane fire burn.
When the wheel has turned to Yule, light the log, the Horned One rules.
Heed you flower, bush and tree, by the Lady, blessed be.
Where the rippling waters go, cast a stone, the truth to know.
When you have and hold a need, harken not to other's greed.
With a fool no seasons spend, or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet and merry part, bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law you should, three times bad and three times good.
When misfortune is enow, wear the blue star on your brow.
True in love you must ever be, lest their love be false to thee.
These words the Wiccan Rede fulfll: An it harm none, do what you will.


If ya go by this little poem here where the "threefold law" is right above it,I'd say "Ye" means you or you all. If you harm someone it will come back to you three times over!

[Morning Star]

In the context within which it was written, I believe it means that so long as your will is good (harm none) do whatever your will desires. All other interpretations are either an improvement or not so much, upon this original meaning. I say this, because most religions (even Christianity) attempt to offer this kind of freedom in the beginning and then as time goes on, it must be interpretated and reinterpreted as "will" meaning a higher will, or God's will, or your will so long as it be the will of god, and so forth.

This part of the rede is clearly designed, imho, to attract those who are sick of rigid morality and desire something simple. So long as I harm none (my will is good), then I am free to do as I wish. It is freedom that is being offered. Why complicate it?

Also, the rule of three...doesn't that just seem like a scare tactic? I've never experienced that in my own life.

[PoisonIvy]

I don't really know if the "threefold law" is a scare tactic or not,but I do know that it takes more energy to hate someone than to forgive. The more bad energy ya put out,the more it wares ya down. Just my opinion.

[Morning Star]

I don't really know if the "threefold law" is a scare tactic or not,but I do know that it takes more energy to hate someone than to forgive. The more bad energy ya put out,the more it wares ya down. Just my opinion.

Yeah, but that sounds more like the law of cause and effect, laws of energy. You get out what you put in. You reap what you sow. The law of three is there to discourage antagonistic magic, but still... I agree with you. It is exhausting to be filled with negative energy all the time...but you must release it in some fashion. You can't just let it eat at you on the inside.

[arctic splash]

Also, the rule of three...doesn't that just seem like a scare tactic? I've never experienced that in my own life.

I think so, too. At least I've never accepted it. It sounds sort of arbitrary to me, and I've never understood how balance can be maintained when everything is coming back three times.

That's sort of what turned me off to paganism way back. I knew a girl who considered herself pagan, and was always warning of the rule of three. It seemed sort of hypocritical that she had absolutely no qualms sending out her own viscious retaliation on people she felt had wronged her. You know, just a bad first impression...

[Ben Trismegistus]

Interesting thought, but I think that the inclusion of the word "ye" is simply to make it sound more archaic and "cool".

What I think the Wiccan Rede (and the Threefold Law) means is simply that actions have consequences. By saying "an it harm none, do as ye wilt", you're simply telling people to be mindful of the consequences of their actions. That's all.

[DebLipp]

Thing is, the rede isn't simply comprised of eight words.
The full rede is comprised of 26 lines.

Bendithion,
RubyRose
Not quite. I haven't searched for our earlier discussions, but the most important website is here: http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/rede3.shtml

In short, the Wiccan Rede, "an it harm none, do as ye will" originated sometime between the 1950s-1960s. The 26 line poem called "The Rede of the Wiccae" was written in 1975.

[DebLipp]

How do you interpret the second part of the Wiccan Rede, 'do what ye will'?

I've heard people say that it means there are no restrictions on what we can do as long as we don't hurt anyone. However, I personally like the interpretation that I've come across (I think in Christopher Penczak's books?) that 'ye' refers to the higher self, and it really means to perform the will of the higher self... not to do whatever the heck you want.

Well, Penczak's idea is nice enough, but attributing some special meaning to the word "ye" is completely false etymology. "Ye" is the old plural form for "you"—in Modern English, "you" can be either singular and plural, but at one time, "you" was singular and "ye" was plural.

In Crowley's version, "Do what thou Will shall be the whole of the Law," it was the word "Will" that was assigned to higher self; the entire purpose of magical work, in Crowley's view, was to discover one's True Will, which is entirely different from desire.

I believe the correct way to understand the Rede is that it's the first part that is the restriction, not the second, and that the Rede is not "the whole of the Law." It may be that Gardner or Doreen or whoever wrote the Rede was simply working with Crowley's statement and then adding a restriction against harm.

I think it's important to note that the Rede doesn't say "never harm." It says if you don't harm, then it's okay to do as you will. It leaves the rest open—if you do harm, it might still be okay; it just doesn't address that.

The Wiccan Rede points to a default position of morality. By default, human behavior is good and moral, unless you harm, in which case, not so much. Contrast the religions of Christianity and Judaism. in which the default position is evil and sinful, unless you follow the rules, in which case, not so much.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Well, Penczak's idea is nice enough, but attributing some special meaning to the word "ye" is completely false etymology. "Ye" is the old plural form for "you"—in Modern English, "you" can be either singular and plural, but at one time, "you" was singular and "ye" was plural.
So it basically says, "If'n ya don't harm nobody, do what y'all will"? ;)

[aerialla]

I've heard it stated that as long as you are not harming anyone what you do is okay. But I have also read things that have stated that it is all right to retaliate if someone has caused you harm.

I just make things easy and live by the good old golden rule, Do unto others as you would have done unto you, except when they really piss you off, then all bets are off.

[morrigan]

I think so, too. At least I've never accepted it. It sounds sort of arbitrary to me, and I've never understood how balance can be maintained when everything is coming back three times.

That's sort of what turned me off to paganism way back. I knew a girl who considered herself pagan, and was always warning of the rule of three. It seemed sort of hypocritical that she had absolutely no qualms sending out her own viscious retaliation on people she felt had wronged her. You know, just a bad first impression...


i think it is more of a principle then a set in stone hard fact.. when you think about it if you walk up to someone in the street and punch them in the face they aren't going to punch you back once they will most likely beat the living crap out of you.. just like if you do something kind for someone often times you will receive kindness from someone in return maybe not from the same person but it still comes your way..
we see balance as a 1 to 1 but whos to say karma etc runs on the same scale it could run 1 to 3 or 1 to 100 who knows.. i know in some circumstances I've seen a persons actions have come back on them in almighty scales far greater then just a 3 fold thing.. all we need to really concern ourselves with is that our actions have consequences what we send out will come back and to do what we think is right and not to stress out over whether or not if we do something is it going to come back and bite us in the bum.. if we have concerns about something we are thinking of doing that could be an indication not to do it..
Blessed Be ~Morrigan~

[Morgandria]

Actually, the Rede IS just those 8 words - "An' ye harm none, do what ye will".

The "long" Rede is a pretty bit of poetry first published in a Green Egg magazine in 1975 by Lady Gwen Thompson, who attributed it to her grandmother, Adriana Porter. It's nice, but it's just a poem.

http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/rede3.shtml - if you want more information on the Rede and how it came to be in its' current form.