Your Veiw of Satanist?

[DamienDeville]

What is your View of Satanist?Come on be Honest!

[Jolixte]

As far as LeVay Satanism, I respect many of it's ideals. I don't know enough about Theistic Satanism as I would like so I can't say much about my views on that.

[Aidron]

No offense, but those are some crappy selections for a poll. Two are negative perceptions, one could be considered indifferent or ambivalent, and the other is the classic 'other'. Where are the ones that reflect positive perceptions, such as "I respect them" or "Commendable"? That would be my choice.

[DamienDeville]

No offense, but those are some crappy selections for a poll. Two are negative perceptions, one could be considered indifferent or ambivalent, and the other is the classic 'other'. Where are the ones that reflect positive perceptions, such as "I respect them" or "Commendable"? That would be my choice.
Thats why I put Okay(that implys all the positive into one.for the rest you will have to elaborate on it.

[DamienDeville]

Okay who put bothered??? :smash: :alol:

[Aidron]

Thats why I put Okay(that implys all the positive into one.for the rest you will have to elaborate on it.


No it doesn't. Okay implies ambivalence or indifference.

[Garden of Eden]

I voted 'Okay'... it is a bit indifferent though, as pointed out. I quite respect the paths of Satanism, although I don't personally adhere to them.

(I've also joined your forum Damien... Incase you happen to be wondering who the strange little witch wandering around the website is...)

[tebyen]

If you're referring to Levay Satanism, I have no problem with it or it's followers.

If you're talking about the folks who get together and sacrifice animals and/or humans because they believe in the christian devil and follow him, I have a problem with.

[Zander770]

Okay who put bothered???I did because there wasn't a "spot" for, umm . . . "I'm a democrat" and/or "I could really give a flying ," ya know?


I mean, I don't feel the need to publish the fact that I'm a "necromanicial chicken " who also loves the Arts, ballroom dancing, calligraphy, and, O yeah: my GRAND KIDDIES, much less POLL EVERYONE ("ouch!") about it all!!!


People are people and people are strange . . . listen: On the night of Thxgiving on my local news they broadcast a story of a husband who ran his 3 yr old daughter over--accidentally. He saw the children playing in his front yard and drove in at a very slow rate of speed--in his driveway w/his car upon arriving home after work.

Needless to say the man was devistated, they said.

My GOD! Gee wiz, ya know? "Thanksgiving just won't nearly even be quite the same for ole . . ."

Jaysus . . .


Now, then: How can some GOD "do that," I ask you, DamienDeville? (Love your "moniker," btw. I had a high school band dubbed "Damien" in the(m) '70's!) How can She "live w/that," on a Day as a Day like that Day and every other Day???


She doesn't CARE, She doesn't. God don't give a flying . How could She?

Look: "God can either abolish all evil or She will not. If She Will not She is not all powerful; if She Cannot, She is not all Good."

Period.


We are FREE, people. Do what you Will do.


You "strangers," you . . .




:sunny:~Zander~from~Dander~:sunny:

[DamienDeville]

No it doesn't. Okay implies ambivalence or indifference.
Understood but thats what I was implying!

[DamienDeville]

I voted 'Okay'... it is a bit indifferent though, as pointed out. I quite respect the paths of Satanism, although I don't personally adhere to them.

(I've also joined your forum Damien... Incase you happen to be wondering who the strange little witch wandering around the website is...)
Okay thanks see ya around then! :santasmil

[badkitty]

I would have preferred a more positive option than okay as well.

[AlAskendir]

What is your View of Satanist?Come on be Honest!

Each of the three I have met are very intense, thought-provoking people, and only one is consistantly manipulative and negative.
That's similar to the ratio with less intense pagans, so I'm willing to not care, and determine who's a cool person by meeting them, talking to them and interacting with them.
This has not been my experience, for example, with manic-depressives (whom I tend to avoid without wanting to meet).

[DamienDeville]

Okay forget this poll.I goofed,Never mind.

[AlAskendir]

Now, then: How can some GOD "do that," I ask you, DamienDeville? How can She "live w/that," on a Day as a Day like that Day and every other Day???

She doesn't CARE, She doesn't. God don't give a flying . How could She?

Look: "God can either abolish all evil or She will not. If She Will not She is not all powerful; if She Cannot, She is not all Good."

We are FREE, people. Do what you Will do.:sunny:~Zander~from~Dander~:sunny:

Of course She can, but why would She? Imagine that you could go to any movie you like, would you always choose pre-1970-s Disney flicks? Some people want tragedies, or horrors, or 'realism'. We need the dark possibilities as well as the bright, for the bright things lose depth and contrast when no dark things are possible. Goddess is infinitely allowing, She can be all powerful and still 'will not'. Show me a circumstance in which all possibilities for tragedy, horror, and mistake have been made impossible and yet you still have free will, AND that you want to be involved in.

[Zander770]

Of course She can, but why would She? . . . She can be all powerful and still 'will not'. Show me a circumstance in which all possibilities for tragedy, horror, and mistake have been made impossible and yet you still have free will, AND that you want to be involved in.
Nice "colour," btw . . . (lemme put me SHADES on: :uzi:Better!)

That's what's called St. Augustine's--"one of 'em!--paradox, 'kay?

My point (thru Augustine) is: "Gad does not CARE!" She doesn't.

Don't matter if you're a "white liar" or a "murderess," it "Just Doesn't Matter . . ."

And? And, morover, ALLLLllllllllll of my "satanist friends" tend to agree w/me!

"Love is the law . . . Love under will . . ."

Uh huh . . . O yeah . . .

:uhhhhh:
~Z~Under~ME!!!~

[Morning Star]

It's not that God doesn't care - it's just (s)he expects that humans after all this time can take care of themselves! Ya know? There is evil? Ya don't like it? Do something. People aren't nice? Not enough compassion...well...get started. And maybe compassion and goodness and love don't make everyone happy. Maybe, what makes some people happy is random chaotic nonsense...well, God is in them too. God's a little order, a little chaos, a little good and a little evil...just depends how you look at it. No God has done anything to make people better. People make people better and people make people worse. People spend far too much time trying to convince themselves that Gods have all this power and all this interest in us. No. Divinity becomes personal, yes. But we are indeed free. And so is God. God is the Universe. God is life. So be it blah blah blah.

[LittleRhiannon]

I didn't really like any of the choices for the poll.

My view of satanists? Kinda interesting, I can relate to some of their beliefs, though I'm not one. My view of satanists is a whole lot like my view of wiccans. They just...are.

[DamienDeville]

It's not that God doesn't care - it's just (s)he expects that humans after all this time can take care of themselves! Ya know? There is evil? Ya don't like it? Do something. People aren't nice? Not enough compassion...well...get started. And maybe compassion and goodness and love don't make everyone happy. Maybe, what makes some people happy is random chaotic nonsense...well, God is in them too. God's a little order, a little chaos, a little good and a little evil...just depends how you look at it. No God has done anything to make people better. People make people better and people make people worse. People spend far too much time trying to convince themselves that Gods have all this power and all this interest in us. No. Divinity becomes personal, yes. But we are indeed free. And so is God. God is the Universe. God is life. So be it blah blah blah.
I couldnt have said it better myself...Thanks! _firedevil

[Morning Star]

My view of satanists? Kinda interesting, I can relate to some of their beliefs, though I'm not one. My view of satanists is a whole lot like my view of wiccans. They just...are.

Well said. It is an excellent belief system all around - but I don't think that I could pratice that only.

[Wiccamagikal]

I neither Commend them nor Condemn them...you know..I mean I dont believe in satan..I believe that each person is a balance of Good and Evil, and it is up to that person which side controls them! So, I would have to select other...because I just..dont believe in satan therefore I dont know much about satanism... :whatgives

[DamienDeville]

I neither Commend them nor Condemn them...you know..I mean I dont believe in satan..I believe that each person is a balance of Good and Evil, and it is up to that person which side controls them! So, I would have to select other...because I just..dont believe in satan therefore I dont know much about satanism... :whatgives
Fare enough

[elfmage]

I neither Commend them nor Condemn them...you know..I mean I dont believe in satan..I believe that each person is a balance of Good and Evil, and it is up to that person which side controls them! So, I would have to select other...because I just..dont believe in satan therefore I dont know much about satanism... :whatgives

Just so you know, non-theistic (or Le Vay) Satanists do not believe in Satan either. They see him as an archetype of self-worship, personal power, etc.

And for the record, they don't believe in following "ultimate evil" or anything either. Satanists (and here I mean in the non-theistic sense) are more about personal responsibility and power. Muireannach did an excellent "FAQ" for Satanism here on MW somewhere, or you can read it at my site (www.elfmage.5u.com/satan.html).

Personally, I have a lot of respect for Satanists, and I identify with almost all of their philosphies. Especially the number one "sin" being stupidity. Someone finally said it!! :lol:

[Muireannach]

No offense, but those are some crappy selections for a poll. Two are negative perceptions, one could be considered indifferent or ambivalent, and the other is the classic 'other'. Where are the ones that reflect positive perceptions, such as "I respect them" or "Commendable"? That would be my choice.

Thankyou for bringing that up...

As a Satanist, I am growing increasingly tired of polls like these, if people want to make accurate polls about any topic, satanist of otherwise, express a VARIETY of views. Biased polls are utterly useless and offensive to those who want to reply honestly.

[flar7]

whats wrong with, ok? thats my states motto! :lilangel:



If your view isnt available, then post it. Respectfully. :bigblue:

[charmedkisses1]

:shhhh:

[Xeen]

I think they're awesome! I can really see why they have the path that they do. I prefer a Satanist sitting next to me on the bus over a Wiccan any day.

:spinnysmi

[Morning Star]

Just so you know, non-theistic (or Le Vay) Satanists do not believe in Satan either. They see him as an archetype of self-worship, personal power, etc.

And for the record, they don't believe in following "ultimate evil" or anything either. Satanists (and here I mean in the non-theistic sense) are more about personal responsibility and power. Muireannach did an excellent "FAQ" for Satanism here on MW somewhere, or you can read it at my site (www.elfmage.5u.com/satan.html).

Personally, I have a lot of respect for Satanists, and I identify with almost all of their philosphies. Especially the number one "sin" being stupidity. Someone finally said it!! :lol:


That is basically how I feel. If it were not for my theistic believes, I think I would easily be satanist, but I do not think I could worship Satan. As a God, it is too Christian...Lucifer is a different story - but even in our minds, lucifer is no longer the same as he was as a Roman god.

I believe, that nature being what it is, is beyond all good and evil, and that man, being what it is, is inclined to believe otherwise. LaVey Satanism is an excellent morality and psychology, but it lacks, in my opinion, the ability to transcend our more human misconceptions. When we think of Satan, do we think of nature? Does Satan remind us of Life? Does his image invoke a lust for Life? Some might say that he does...but not for me.

There is a place in my heart for Satan and Lucifer and the like, dark angels to carry my instincts and inutions into my consciousness - but Divinity...for me is much more like the Tao, without all implications. Divinity is mere Nature. The Universe, Life and everything else we have yet to discover.

[DamienDeville]

:shhhh:
WAR EAGLE!

[Sasha318]

I had a long reply typed out and my husband deleted it when I went to catch a munchkin that was crying. :grrrrr:

I'm ashamed to say that before coming here I didn't know anything about Satanism. I've never known someone who was open about it if they followed that path, and I've never taken it upon myself to become educated. :( I've been reading threads about it, though, and find it fascinating.

I voted okay. Why would I have a problem with it? The only time I have a problem with any religion are those who have groups that try to legistlate their morality.

[misschief]

my view on satanists.. *shrug* i obviously don't agree or i would be one.. but who am i to say. they're here, we're here.. deal.

[wakywitch]

I neither Commend them nor Condemn them...you know..I mean I dont believe in satan..I believe that each person is a balance of Good and Evil, and it is up to that person which side controls them!

yeah that.

[aerialla]

I voted okay. Why would I have a problem with it? The only time I have a problem with any religion are those who have groups that try to legistlate their morality.


I voted okay, because I believe that everyone has a right to their own beliefs. No one should be forced to believe on way or the other.The world would be a really dull place if everyone was the same, variety is the spice of life and all that.

I know my own beliefs and that is all that matters. I am a former Christian (pastor's wife..and church Deacon) I got away from it because I couldn't put my faith in something that has more holes than Swiss cheese. I still have friends that are, my husband now (divorced the first one..thank you Goddess) is Christian and that is how my daughters will be raised until they are of age to decide for themselves.

I think religion is a choice, its where your heart and soul lies. The people that I don't understand are the ones who believe in nothing. For I would rather have faith in something however obsurd to anyone else than faith in nothing. You might as well be dead inside.

[elfmage]

Um, I am not being rude, but I cannot understand a word you are saying, Zander770. Can you please repeat what you said, in comprehensible English?

[morrigan]

[

Look: "God can either abolish all evil or She will not. If She Will not She is not all powerful; if She Cannot, She is not all Good."

Period.


We are FREE, people. Do what you Will do.


You "strangers," you . . .




:sunny:~Zander~from~Dander~:sunny:


if there was only good in the world how would we know it was good?
as far as what i think in regards to satanism up until recently i had a very stereo-typical view of what it was but i have come to realize there is more to it, different paths under one label something that i guess i need to read up on even though i doubt i would take it as my path..but then who knows i dont know enough to judge at this point in time.. I'm very glad that damien has drawn awareness to his path how else will mis-conceptions and stereo-types be broken down.. Blessed Be ~Morrigan~

[kenaz na wyvern]

Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law.

[E. Shadowblade]

I have done a little bit of studies on LeVay Satanism, and I have absolutely no problems with it. Howerver I will not claim to know anywhere near enough to make a fully commited and educated decison on it. The few "satanists I have met outside of MW, were just saying that they were to try and freak people out...and that used to drive me Nutz.

[flar7]

Admin Mode
You will keep the language PG-13, even if it involves sexual innuendo. Zander770.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Well, I also put okay. I haven't really researched Satanism thoroughly, nor have I met any Satanists IRL. But from what I have read, I agree with a lot of it, theoretically. I think it's often realistic and common sensical when others descend (or ascend, if you prefer) into faith or metaphysics.

Something that really bothered me recently was my Religious Studies professor, who's defended many religions in court (scientology, wicca, etc), said that the only case he's ever turned down involved Satanists and some complaint about a ritual involving under-aged teenagers and sex. He had the same ideas that many people voice about Satanism as not a religion in and of itself but a negative reaction to Xianity, and perhaps a twisted version of Xianity. That the devil is not a god. He said he didn't think they were a religion. Then I got to thinking. He has said before that he would have defended David Koresh and the Waco people, since in that part of Texas there are under-age marriages all the time, and so they shouldn't have been singled out. I mean, if you can defend someone's right to try to father children with a dozen under-age girls, then what's a sex ritual with an underage girl? I don't know what kind of Satanists these were, and I don't know the whole story, but I thought it was interesting that this man who would defend my space-alien religion that I started two weeks ago with my friend Bob (hypothetically) would consider Satanism (flatly) to not be deserving of the same defense. Do you think it's purely ignorance? He's a very learned man, but there are always gaps. Or perhaps his own prejudice having an outlet? Interesting.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Mouse]

i said psycho coz thats what i'm led to believe.. i really have no idea.. to me it is a rebellion against christianity, and is a branch thereof.. but i'm happy if someone wants to correct me.

[Stormcall]

I respect anyone of any religion, unless they are harming others, and as followers of LeVay Satanism wouldn't do that unless it was warranted, I respect Satanists as well.
I agree with many of their philosophies- not all of them, but many of them. Obviously the respect doesn't apply to the "satanists" who walk around dressed in black 24/7, threatening animals and who knows what else, but you get the basic idea.

Mouse, earlier in this thread Elfmage put a link to a very informative Satanist website, go back and read it if you like. It'll give you the real info about LeVay Satanism.

[Zander770]

Admin Mode
You will keep the language PG-13, even if it involves sexual innuendo. Zander770.
. . . I'm AM sorry about "that," am--First Thing--as soon as I arose, this morning, I immediately logged-on, hoping to DELETE that . . . "post," but, obviously, I was "too late."

What was my "Reason for Deletion?"

THE devil MADE ME DO IT.

Yet, again; my apologises,

~z~770~

[Valnorran]

I voted "okay." No Satanist has ever crossed me. Levay's satanism makes a certain kind of sense. I LOVE that they placed stupidity at the top of their list of sins. About time somebody did. To a certain extent, though, I have trouble taking Levay seriously. The opening page of the Church of Stan website made me laugh. The whole shaved head/goatee/horns/red cloak thing is just rediculous, though maybe that's what Levay was going for. Maybe he was making fun of the typical perception of satanism. One thing I never understood was why they aligned themselves with "Satan." I know they don't see him as an actual being, but aligning yourself with what most of the western world sees as the epitome of evil seems like an unnecessary public relations nightmare. Why not - oh, I don't know - Bacchus or a figure that isn't so associated with evil?

[Sasha318]

For I would rather have faith in something however obsurd to anyone else than faith in nothing. You might as well be dead inside.

Um, I spent quite a bit of time having faith in "nothing" except for myself and the existence I know. I hardly felt dead inside. I just wasn't pretending to believe in something I didn't. :rolleyes: It's awfully presumptious (and ignorant) to make such a remark.

[Wicker Man]

There does seem to be a lot of discussion about Satanism lately on here (more than I've seen in a while), which makes me wonder why there's such a sudden interest?

Satanism is as much a religion as any other, but one that seems okay to dismiss and poke fun at by society in general. I think if a religion doesn't prod you to try and better yourself in some way, internally or externally, then in my opinion, it's not much of a religion. You can always tell the real practioners apart from those that are just trying to shock people in just the way they carry themselves. Many Satanists I've have known who have been practicing their faith for many years, tend to have a strong sense of pride and conduct themselves in a very disciplined manner. I think the popular notion of Satanism is one of over indulgence, but pride overrules such a notion for Satanists. If you really want to know what Satanism is like, look to the mature believer and not to the teens dressed in black with facial piercings at the mall.

[aerialla]

Um, I spent quite a bit of time having faith in "nothing" except for myself and the existence I know. I hardly felt dead inside. I just wasn't pretending to believe in something I didn't. :rolleyes: It's awfully presumptious (and ignorant) to make such a remark.

I am not being presumptious or ignorant. You yourself said that you had faith in something, your own beliefs and ideals. That is having faith in something, even if it is yourself. I'm talking about the people that don't even have that. There are a lot of people in the world that have no regard for human life in any form, even their own. They have no faith, not even in themselves. They are the ones that are dead inside. I wasn't poking at anyone in particular. I have met some people that were like that and yes when you have no regard for life you are dead inside. _witchball

[gurlygurl2004]

To be honest with you I'm not sure, I've heard both sides that it's not as evil as people think it is, or that it is. Actually my pagan sister had told that it's basically hedonism(or selfishnism). I've heard that they don't believe in the Christian Satan, but there's some similarities, or that they are aethists. And what I mean by hedonism is that they believe you can do or have anything you want, and I've read the sins and rules of Satanism, I have been to websites, particularly the Church of Satan and I still don't get it.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I took a VERY brief and very slight interest in Satanism a little over a year ago (when I was about 15).. Though LeVay seemed to have some interesting points, it was nothing I could really bring myself to accept as my beliefs. I found Theistic Satanism to be rather frightening, though I must admit that I didn't look into it very far as I found far too many disturbing and twisted individuals claiming to be Satanists. For example, I read a portion from a Satanist's journal which described his relationship and wrath towards his sex slave, his vengeance towards a friend who had "betrayed" him, and his way of getting back at his ex-friend was soaking a steak in weed-killers, rolling it in broken glass, and throwing it to his friend's dog..

..I can't even express how disgusted that makes me feel... ><

I realize, however that this is not characteristic of all, or even MOST Satanists, and that there are different forms of Satanism, and although I can recognize Satanism as a religion, I do not see myself ever offering my trust to those who call themselves Satanists.

I do not agree with "devil worship" (The worship of evil over that of good) or Theistic Satanism, from what I know of it, or the degrading of Christianity (though I am NOT a Xtian), or any other religion in the name of another. I consider this to be "anti-religion". I do not agree with blatant "Self worship", as I feel that one should be selfless..

Meh.. I'm sure this post seems to reek of intolerance, but it's late, I'm tired, and I don't mean any disrespect. Please, those with opposing views, enlighten me.

[Rain Gnosis]

My point (thru Augustine) is: "Gad does not CARE!" She doesn't.

Don't matter if you're a "white liar" or a "murderess," it "Just Doesn't Matter . . ."

I agree wholeheartedly. I think the first step in my evolving spiritually over the past year + was realizing just what you've said - she. doesn't. care. The hurricane doesn't care about the dead it leaves behind, nor the tidal wave or the tornado or earthquake or volcano.

[AdNoctum]

I found Theistic Satanism to be rather frightening, though I must admit that I didn't look into it very far as I found far too many disturbing and twisted individuals claiming to be Satanists. For example, I read a portion from a Satanist's journal which described his relationship and wrath towards his sex slave, his vengeance towards a friend who had "betrayed" him, and his way of getting back at his ex-friend was soaking a steak in weed-killers, rolling it in broken glass, and throwing it to his friend's dog..

This person's twisted idea of "vengeance" makes me question if he is a genuine Satanist. One of LaVey's "Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth" states "Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food." While we don't all follow LaVey's laws, I personally (a Theistic Satanist) consider this a good one.

There are psychos in every group.

I realize, however that this is not characteristic of all, or even MOST Satanists, and that there are different forms of Satanism, and although I can recognize Satanism as a religion, I do not see myself ever offering my trust to those who call themselves Satanists.

That's unfortunate, as genuine Satanists are the most loyal, trustworthy people you'll ever meet. We believe completely in the idea of treating others how we want to be treated. We wouldn't want our trust violated, therefore we try not to violate the trust of others.

Nevertheless, you are entitled to your opinion.

I do not agree with "devil worship" (The worship of evil over that of good) or Theistic Satanism, from what I know of it, or the degrading of Christianity (though I am NOT a Xtian), or any other religion in the name of another. I consider this to be "anti-religion".

I personally agree with you about degrading Christianity. In my opinion, the use of rituals such as the Black Mass, or any other ritual that involved the deliberate inversion of Christian ritual, is only useful when used as a means to remove the mental baggage one can often be burdened with after leaving more hardcore forms of Christianity. I personally have never performed a ritual of blasphemy, as I have found no need to, even though I was raised in a rather conservative Christian congregation.

However, implying we worship "evil" (which is what you are doing - I apologize if this was not your intention) is incredibly simplistic, as "evil" is a highly subjective term. "Evil" according to whom? Christians? Yes, I suppose in some ways we prefer their version of "evil" over their version of "good." This essay (http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/Muse/XianSatanEvil.html) by Diane Vera might help you out a little.

I do not agree with blatant "Self worship", as I feel that one should be selfless..

Selflessness is good at times, but it's not always the best way to go. There are times when selfishness is necessary.

[arctic splash]

Okay who put bothered??? :smash: :alol:

I put psycho. :tongueout

[Billy Pilgrim]

Thank you for your response, AdNoctum..

I still can't seem to dispel the aura of darkness (not to be cliche, but that seems to be the most appropriate word I can find) surrouding Satanism. ..ill will.. clandestine.. malevolent... it doesn't settle right with me..

I'd be interested in meeting Satanists in hopes to disprove my innate aversion towards them.

[Djinn]

Satanists are boy scouts. Really. Once you have weeded out the ones who say they are Satanists just to shock people, the fanboys and the occaisional genuine wacko (all relgions have their wackos), Satanists tend to be trustworthy, honest, brave, etc. The ones I have met are great people because they say what they mean, do what they say, don't dither looking for approval, and mind their own business as long as you mind yours. I like those traits.

[Holly_Blackwell]

I always thought Satanists were a bit on the screwy side. Theoriticaly, if you are a Satanist, you believe in Satan and God. I'm unable to comprehend what kind of person, having a firm belief in both extreams, would chose Satan over God. Just doesn't make any sense....

[Threase]

Satanists are boy scouts. Really. Once you have weeded out the ones who say they are Satanists just to shock people, the fanboys and the occaisional genuine wacko (all relgions have their wackos), Satanists tend to be trustworthy, honest, brave, etc. The ones I have met are great people because they say what they mean, do what they say, don't dither looking for approval, and mind their own business as long as you mind yours. I like those traits.

exactly!

[Threase]

I always thought Satanists were a bit on the screwy side. Theoriticaly, if you are a Satanist, you believe in Satan and God. I'm unable to comprehend what kind of person, having a firm belief in both extreams, would chose Satan over God. Just doesn't make any sense....

:wtf: This coming from someone that was asking us for hexes and death spells?

(By the way, just because you're Satanist doesn't necessarily mean you believe in God and Satan. You could just believe in the Self, or what Satan may symbolize)

[Rain Gnosis]

My goodness, Holly Blackwell, there are probably half a dozen recent threads explaining that Satanism needn't have anything to do with the Christian Satan. Certainly you are welcome to your opinion, but you might actually want to educate yourself before calling people "screwy".

Yours truly,
a Satanist.

[Sage Rainsong]

I am fine with Satanists if they are fine with me. Well I hues pretty much sums up all of my relationships with people. however I don't consider them pagans if that makes sense. I don't mean that in a condecending way but I just see them as seperate catagories.

[Enigma]

There is only *ONE* Satan if you believe in Satan at all. Holly is right in that statement.

If you don't believe in the one and only, "Satan" you probably should refrain from calling yourself a Satanist.
Otherwise it makes your belief system rather oxymoronic.

If you don't believe in the one and only Satan, another term for your religion should be applied. If you do believe in him and choose to worship him than yes you are a Satanist.

I don't mind true Satanists but I do have to ask the same question Holly asked. Why if you believe in God would you worship Satan? After all it's worshiping a loosing force according to the nature of his existence.

Worship one who would destroy you as opposed to worshiping one who would uplift you.

I personally do not believe in either of them but if any of *you do*.., the choice of worship should be obvious.

To each their own though. Many people I know can't accept the fact that I don't believe in either of them. :D

[Holly_Blackwell]

My goodness, Holly Blackwell, there are probably half a dozen recent threads explaining that Satanism needn't have anything to do with the Christian Satan. Certainly you are welcome to your opinion, but you might actually want to educate yourself before calling people "screwy".

Yours truly,
a Satanist.

My appologies if I offended you. The only Satanists I've met believe in God and Satan, so I was a bit confused there. Thanx for the clarification. Still don't get it though....

[flar7]

There is only *ONE* Satan if you believe in Satan at all. Holly is right in that statement.

If you don't believe in the one and only, "Satan" you probably should refrain from calling yourself a Satanist.
Otherwise it makes your belief system rather oxymoronic.

If you don't believe in the one and only Satan, another term for your religion should be applied. If you do believe in him and choose to worship him than yes you are a Satanist.

I don't mind true Satanists but I do have to ask the same question Holly asked. Why if you believe in God would you worship Satan? After all it's worshiping a loosing force according to the nature of his existence.

Worship one who would destroy you as opposed to worshiping one who would uplift you.

I personally do not believe in either of them but if any of *you do*.., the choice of worship should be obvious.

To each their own though. Many people I know can't accept the fact that I don't believe in either of them. :D
well put. I think they would want to distance themselves from the connotation, but hey. LeVay was going for shock and awe.

[Gracecat]

I put okay... Mostly because the Satanists I met were more "hedonistic" rather than the classic demon worshipping individuals. And for the most part, I'm ok around the hedonistic person. I may consider their lifestyle a bit selfish and such but I'm not going to slam 'em upside the brick wall for it.

I agree though, the name is oxymoronic in that it implies you do believe in Satan and there's only one "Satan". (Just as there's only one Zeus) Demonology is different I believe and doesn't include "Satan" so to speak so in my opinion it's not exactly Satanism to worship demons either.

Anyway.. it's 3am and around this time, it's dangerous for me to converse.

[AlAskendir]

(some comment about the color)
I was content with purple until someone changed the background color....Now purple looks too schmucky.

That's what's called St. Augustine's--"one of 'em!--paradox, 'kay?

So...you let ancient christian philosophers think for you? How...sad.

My point (thru Augustine) is: "Gad does not CARE!" She doesn't.

I guess it depends on how you define 'care'. Should a parent 'care' if Her child is playing the cop or the robber this afternoon? Should She prevent the child from ever playing the robber, or the victim, or soap operas, or tragedies? Knowing of course, that what is forbidden becomes rebelliously sweeter?

Don't matter if you're a "white liar" or a "murderess," it "Just Doesn't Matter . . ."

And? And, morover, ALLLLllllllllll of my "satanist friends" tend to agree w/me!

You have friends? . . . Sorry. (lol)


You have friends who agree with you about something? How wondrous!
You must know how exceedingly rare this is!

[center]"Love is the law . . . Love under will . . "

[AdNoctum]

Why if you believe in God would you worship Satan?

Who said anything about believeing in the Christian God? Some Satanists do, some don't.

I personally am indifferent as to whether or not he exists. I don't doubt he has an effect on those who worship him, but he is not my god, so it doesn't really matter to me.

[Rain Gnosis]

There is only *ONE* Satan if you believe in Satan at all. Holly is right in that statement.

Hm. If someone told you

there is only *ONE* ___ (insert name of being you worship or archetype you draw inspiration from) and if you don't believe in ____ just as I see him/her/it you have no right to call yourself ____ (insert religion or philosophy you believe in here)

you'd probably say "thanks for your opinion, but I decide who my god is and how I practice my religion and work with the divine". You wouldn't tell a Wiccan "hey, there is only ONE Wiccan goddess - the one I see - and if you don't worship her you have no right to call yourself Wiccan".

Would you deny eclectic Wiccans their gods simply because they might not be the one the traditional Wiccan worships? Would you deny the Greeks worshipping Isis because they don't perceive her just exactly as the Ancient Egyptians saw Aset? Would you tell someone if they don't worship the Norse Gods exactly as was done in ancient times they have no right to call themselves Norse?

[Rain Gnosis]

My appologies if I offended you. The only Satanists I've met believe in God and Satan, so I was a bit confused there. Thanx for the clarification. Still don't get it though....

Hello Holly,

No need for apologies - you didn't offend me. I'm sorry if I came off too strong - it's just so many people get the wrong idea and make assumptions and sometimes it bites my butt :) :D :lol: Please accept my apology if I came across as angry or snarky or anything else. If you get a chance you might check out a site called http://www.satanism101.com/ to find out more about LaVeyan Satanism, then you'll know a bit more. Truth is a lot of people are misinformed, so it's really understandable.

Best regards!

[Rain Gnosis]

So...you let ancient christian philosophers think for you? How...sad.

Gosh, AlAskendir - I hope you don't tell every member who quotes anyone that they are letting that other person think for them. *friendly smile*

[Rain Gnosis]

well put. I think they would want to distance themselves from the connotation, but hey. LeVay was going for shock and awe.

Actually, many don't want to distance themselves from the connotation. For example, Vexen has this to say

Sheep are frequently considered a bit mindless, uncurious and unintelligent because they follow the herd, without thinking and take for granted that that's the way it should be. No questions. No answers.

When you have a symbol that cannot be interpreted in terms of popular belief or by it's cover or appearance, then you immediately filter out the masses who are unwilling to question their own assumptions. Assumptions are the mother of mediocrity and fuck ups. By a strange coincidence, Satan represents a train of thought is not mainstream and is not limited by a person's culture or upbringing: Satanism is Left Hand Path: The individual thinks for himself and all the assumptions of society are questioned.

Imagery that cannot be judged correctly without abandoning thoughtless stereotypes and assumptions are an advantage to someone who wishes to quickly identify people who are unwilling, in their current state in life, to step out of the grid-iron thinking of their culture and embrace Old Nick and his search of knowledge.

Source: The Enema Image - Vexen's Satanism Site (http://www.dpjs.co.uk/enema.html)

[awyrdone]

Personally, I have met many Satanists and what I have found that the ones who are NOT in High Schhol and trying to rebel against opression/conformity and are the REAL DEAL
are REALLY HAPPY PEOPLE.
I'm not saying that the beginner on the Satanist scene is bad either, personal experience has led me to meet a lot of freinds who got into it for the purpose of shocking ppl. Most of them turned out to be great ppl.
but the Satanists I have met have been extremley cool, straightfoward and jolly in a weird way.
Perhaps it is the liberation from the need to please everyone else, please the concept of God that tends to be so rigidly portayed in our culture, freedom to be who one is, do what one wishes, think what one thinks and be what one is.
Man, I'm not bashing christians, but most of the Satanists I have met were kinder than many Christians I have met! And they don't even feel the need to BE nice.
just my humble opinion, and subjective at that.

[Marchosias]

One thing I never understood was why they aligned themselves with "Satan." I know they don't see him as an actual being, but aligning yourself with what most of the western world sees as the epitome of evil seems like an unnecessary public relations nightmare. Why not - oh, I don't know - Bacchus or a figure that isn't so associated with evil?

Probably best answered in the eighth Satanic Statement. Found in both the Satanic Bible, and the Church of Satan website.


8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

Satan not only represents these things, but is instantly recognizable by most of the world. As such, the name itself as a certain power.

[flar7]

still, its an oxymoron as noted. Even if you take the Wiccan example. If you are Wiccan, but dont do anything that the Wiccans do, why call yourself Wiccan?

I have read and studied much about Satanism, practically have to being an admin here with all the Satan posts that get made, and it seems double edged, even in the quotes mentioned. Either he is, or he isnt, either way, why give lip service to something that you dont believe exists as a reality(physical entity) when its just for shock value. Seems like one of their own biggest sins to me. Stupidity. Then again, I have a low opinion of LeVay and think the boy needed a bit of help. As for his religion? Thats for each to decide, its just as legit as the followers of Khoresh, Mohammad, or Wicca. I may disagree with it, and definitely with how it was founded, but that doesnt mean it doesnt work for some.

[Shanti]

Ok I couldnt answer the poll because all the above was not there.
So, I say all the above and them some.
I cant form an opinion on a title and to form an opinion on the people, well I would have to form an opinion an each individual! Since humans come in such a large variety, I would have to say all the above and then some. :)

[Marchosias]

I have read and studied much about Satanism, practically have to being an admin here with all the Satan posts that get made, and it seems double edged, even in the quotes mentioned. Either he is, or he isnt, either way, why give lip service to something that you dont believe exists as a reality(physical entity) when its just for shock value.

Satan the ideal, not the entity, I suppose would be an adequete description.

For example, Christians do not worship the cross itself, that would be idol worship. it is a representation of their beliefs.

Satanists worship not Satan, but he represents the ideals of the religion. I.E., Seven deadly sins, carnal pleasure, etc.

Nevertheless, you have a point.

Hell, my love affair with the idea has always been somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

[Rain Gnosis]

still, its an oxymoron as noted. Even if you take the Wiccan example. If you are Wiccan, but dont do anything that the Wiccans do, why call yourself Wiccan?

I guess I'm not following your logic - a Satanist does what Satanists do, whether they're theistic or atheistic. You can't define all Wiccans by one view of the Goddess - similarly, you can't define all Satanists by one view of Satan. There isn't "one way to be Wiccan" and "one way to see the Wiccan goddess" - just like there isn't "one way to be Satanist" and "one way to see Satan".

just for shock value

And here, I guess I don't know how to phrase this differently then I did.

When you have a symbol that cannot be interpreted in terms of popular belief or by it's cover or appearance, then you immediately filter out the masses who are unwilling to question their own assumptions.

If you're shocked by the term Satan, if you refuse to look past your own assumptions on what Satan is, then any Satanist knows they would be wasting their time to try to explain it to you. They use the term to shock you - to see whether you stop and consider other views and question your assumptions, or whether you just insist your understanding of Satan is the only one that's valid.

In a similar vein, people say "why use the term witch when it has such negative connotations". Well, people continue using the word witch because it suits them, because the way they use the word has meaning to them. Maybe that's "stupidity", I disagree, since that would mean a lot of people (even here on this site) are "stupid" because they use a term that has meaning to them, regardless of what fundie refuses to see it.

[Mystic EagleAir]

If you're referring to Levay Satanism, I have no problem with it or it's followers.

If you're talking about the folks who get together and sacrifice animals and/or humans because they believe in the christian devil and follow him, I have a problem with.

I have to agree tebyen. Another reason why I can't really say anything is because I haven't researched anything about the LeVay Satanism so I had to vote "Not Sure".

[flar7]

but you see, LeVay's branch of Satanism is not the first one, and they are radically different in aims and methods. Most branches of christianity that I can think of have the same goal, and recognize the same basic truth, their biggest difference comes in the protestant movement that splintered them up awhile back. LeVay is about the self and its needs, and original Satanists arent. By "original" I mean the first, and still existing covens. That is why I cannot understand why LeVay would tie his group to that one......stupid.

As to witches being seen in a negative light? not so. In fact, I am begining to wonder if Pagans even realize their true numbers anymore. They might be surprised. I am noticing more and more signs of "hidden" pagans in rural and country areas that you would think of as predominantly christian, and yet with that many pagans, how can they be predominant? Because the Pagans are silent and not willing to come out.

Witches have become hugely popular in the culture, hence the large resurgence into it, as well as the pop culture trend. The spreading of the ideas of magic, shamanism, witchcraft and even midwifing are aiding in this...... witch a negative term? hardly.

[AlAskendir]

Gosh, AlAskendir - I hope you don't tell every member who quotes anyone that they are letting that other person think for them. *friendly smile*

Well, no...not if they say something like 'so and so said...' or 'I agree with ___, who said....', etc. But if they say it as if they were thinking it themselves for the first time, and then clarify that they were quoting someone else without using quotes or listing the credit, aren't they just kind of asking for it?

[Miss Edith]

I said okay, because I'm okay with whatever path someone chooses to follow, Satanist or not. Doesn't bother me :)

[Billy Pilgrim]

If you're shocked by the term Satan, if you refuse to look past your own assumptions on what Satan is, then any Satanist knows they would be wasting their time to try to explain it to you. They use the term to shock you - to see whether you stop and consider other views and question your assumptions, or whether you just insist your understanding of Satan is the only one that's valid.



Shock value, eh?

As long as people call themselves Satanists, they should just expect that others will just naturally regard them with suspicion and distrust. I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I grew up Spiritualist, have attended Unitarian Universalist, Quaker, Methodist, and many other churches all before I was even a teenager, and I have always regarded "Satan" as evil and dispicable, even if I couldn't really define exactly what Satan is. I just can't seem to shake that innate feeling that Satanism is wrong.

Just my opinion..

[Morning Star]

As long as people call themselves Satanists, they should just expect that others will just naturally regard them with suspicion and distrust. I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I grew up Spiritualist, have attended Unitarian Universalist, Quaker, Methodist, and many other churches all before I was even a teenager, and I have always regarded "Satan" as evil and dispicable, even if I couldn't really define exactly what Satan is. I just can't seem to shake that innate feeling that Satanism is wrong.

That's ok - many satanists can't seem to shake that innate feeling that Unitarian, Quaker & Methodist ideology is wrong and frightening.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again - no one should care if Satan shocks people. You are what you are, a Satanist should never look to anyone but themselves to recognize them and to legitimise them. Who cares what people think of your system of belief? If you like LaVey's Satanism, practice it. If people don't like it - who cares? What makes their opinion intelligent? They just have some gut fear of Satan - fine. But that is them, not you. Anyway - people shouldn't be looking to others for confirmation that their beliefs are real and certainly no one needs anyone elses respect for their beliefs, especially satanists. Just go with it. Don't beg anyone for their appreciation of your beliefs - you know what you've experienced. You know your heart. There is no doubt that in some the idea of Satan will inspire fear and in others pure amazement. To some, there will be no doubt that this world is His. To others, Satan is a force to be defeated with good will. All in all, it seems that His Name at the very least requires a reaction. ;) It has its' effect.

[Rain Gnosis]

But if they say it as if they were thinking it themselves for the first time, and then clarify that they were quoting someone else without using quotes or listing the credit, aren't they just kind of asking for it?

I don't think anyone at this forum is ever asking for personal insults like that. Just my simple opinion, as a member here.

But, back to the topic at hand before I get my hand slapped :)

witch a negative term? hardly.

There are still places in the world where young women are getting murdered when accused of witchcraft.

The word "witch" may be used positively in your area, but that's certainly not true everywhere. I don't think most members here at MW would say witch is a term they can throw around in polite conversation in the office or at a party.

But I'm confused, and that leads me to ask

I am noticing more and more signs of "hidden" pagans in rural and country areas that you would think of as predominantly christian, and yet with that many pagans, how can they be predominant? Because the Pagans are silent and not willing to come out.

If witch is a positive term, why are people hiding it, and being silent about who they are?

Most branches of christianity that I can think of have the same goal, and recognize the same basic truth, their biggest difference comes in the protestant movement that splintered them up awhile back

Really? Now that there are a few theistic Satanists here at MW posting their beliefs, it seems to me like they are very similar to atheistic Satanists except they actually believe in a being called Satan.

[Rain Gnosis]

Anyway - people shouldn't be looking to others for confirmation that their beliefs are real and certainly no one needs anyone elses respect for their beliefs, especially satanists.

:thumbsup: to your entire post

[flar7]

...The word "witch" may be used positively in your area, but that's certainly not true everywhere. I don't think most members here at MW would say witch is a term they can throw around in polite conversation in the office or at a party.

But I'm confused, and that leads me to ask



If witch is a positive term, why are people hiding it, and being silent about who they are?



Really? Now that there are a few theistic Satanists here at MW posting their beliefs, it seems to me like they are very similar to atheistic Satanists except they actually believe in a being called Satan.
Well, originally, Satanist worshipped Satan under the idea that he would win in the battle versus God, and that God had decieved them on many things according to Satan. So, I may need to clarify when I say that LeVay Satanist are about the self and the older version not. All religions are basically about saving your own skin and the required rules to do so. The older version of Satanism had the rebellion and its reasons behind it. Whether it was really accurate or what, only the end will tell according to both religions. Satanists of that branch feel that he will win and of course most christian sects feel otherwise.

I am not as familiar with the current Theistic Satanist cannon other than the recognition of Satan and of Satan being the one to do the creation on behalf of God.

back to pagans and witches. I said that Pagans are not as much a minority as they may seem to be, not witches. Here, in the U.S., witches is not the negative term that it seems to be elsewhere according to you....I dont know, never left the States. But there is no denying the rise of Paganism and the numbers, yet they feel they are a smaller group than they truly are, and in my area of the bible belt, it seems that the majority of conservative christians are the "older" people, and that younger to "mid-forties" seem to be free of such beliefs and more open. Not saying its good or bad, just seems prevelant.

In the U.S., we have changed the face of witches, and now they seem to be icons and such. Our movies promote them, our books weave fantastic tales that we want to be true, papers carry stories about covens and Samhain, Solstices and such. Definitely not the negative aspect of witch that existed 50 years ago.

Why do you hear christians shouting about witchcraft and the devil? Because they are the only ones shouting...not because they are that large a majority.

[Marchosias]

I am not as familiar with the current Theistic Satanist cannon other than the recognition of Satan and of Satan being the one to do the creation on behalf of God.


http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

Read, if you dare. It is a bit whacked, IMHO.

[flar7]

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

Read, if you dare. It is a bit whacked, IMHO.
yep, but I havent had much in depth study is what I meant. Unlike LeVay's branch which I am more familiar with, but I agree with you on that site Marchoisias......whacked. Welcome to earth.

[AdNoctum]

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

Read, if you dare. It is a bit whacked, IMHO.

Ah, yes, the Joy of Satan crowd. Even WE think those guys are kind of strange.

[Lunamoth]

Coming in late to the discussion, but I adore my Satanist friends. They are some of the most thoughtful, intellectual, and kindest folks I know. To them, the religion is not some sort of rebellion against society or parents (I mean, they're well old enough to be on their own after all), it's just their religion. Period.

[SylverStar]

Well with all things I'm usually live and let live. Awhile ago my friend was looking into satanism and I can say my first thought...was why in the hell would you wanna do that...but it's her veiws so whatever. I started to look into it out of curiousity...and like most things I find things I agree with and things that I think are rather against my thinking. Does this make it wrong or right...no. I don't know much about the different forms of satanism...but I'm probably most familiar, and most accepting, with Laveyan satanism.

[Zander770]

Originally Posted by Zander770
My point (thru Augustine) is: "Gad does not CARE!" She doesn't.

Don't matter if you're a "white liar" or a "murderess," it "Just Doesn't Matter . . ."


I agree wholeheartedly. I think the first step in my evolving spiritually over the past year + was realizing just what you've said - she. doesn't. care. The hurricane doesn't care about the dead it leaves behind, nor the tidal wave or the tornado or earthquake or volcano.
Thank you, ma'am . . . "Wholeheartedly!"

[Enigma]

Hm. If someone told you



you'd probably say "thanks for your opinion, but I decide who my god is and how I practice my religion and work with the divine". You wouldn't tell a Wiccan "hey, there is only ONE Wiccan goddess - the one I see - and if you don't worship her you have no right to call yourself Wiccan".

Would you deny eclectic Wiccans their gods simply because they might not be the one the traditional Wiccan worships? Would you deny the Greeks worshipping Isis because they don't perceive her just exactly as the Ancient Egyptians saw Aset? Would you tell someone if they don't worship the Norse Gods exactly as was done in ancient times they have no right to call themselves Norse?

Actually I don't tell *anyone* how to worship, it's their choice. Nor would I deny anyone the right to worship as they choose, unless it infringed upon another persons rights; and I did not deny you the right to call yourself *whatever* you should choose. That's your liberty.

But any way you choose to look at it, there *is* only one Satan. You may not worship him directly but choose to worship an ideal related to him but Satan is still Satan.

I was simply asking.., Why *if* you believe in Satan would you worship him. If Satan exists then so does the Christian God. The question was purely hypothetical and not requiring of an answer. As I said before I don't believe in either one.

[Marchosias]

I was simply asking.., Why *if* you believe in Satan would you worship him. If Satan exists then so does the Christian God. The question was purely hypothetical and not requiring of an answer. As I said before I don't believe in either one.

The link to "The Joy of Satan" I posted answers that question in depth, I believe.

[flar7]

yep. they figure God lied, and they are gonna win.

[Morning Star]

Or maybe God, which represents the Supernatural or (un)natural is really the enemy of the True God, which is natural. All one has to do is look at the world to see that it is not the work of the Abrahamic God. :) The Abrahamic God, to some, could be viewed as a god created to instill fear, insecurity and guilt in free men, making them easier to control. In that sense, if the opposite of the Abrahamic God is Satan, then the worship of Satan is the worship of Nature and of our right to remain free men, without the chains of fear, insecurity and guilt. (Being that I'm not a satanist, I doubt this would be their argument - but it stands to reason...)

[flar7]

nope, not what it says on their website. Does the black is white and white is black kinda thing while twisting many of the stories so that its satan that creates.

[Morning Star]

on whose website?

[flar7]

Marchosias posted a link on the page before this.

[Morning Star]

ah yes. ok. I was argueing from more of a LaVey point-of-view. :) though, looking over that site, I must say that it is a wonderful mythology.

[Enigma]

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

Read, if you dare. It is a bit whacked, IMHO.

Yea, whacked. But okay....

Kinda sounds like a bad D&D campaign setting mixed with some ill informed sci-fi to me.

:durrrr: No.., just kidding.., to each their own I guess.

[Cornflake_Girl8]

It seems that LaVey Satanism is all about sex, money, sex, money, philosophy. Oh! Look at that....philosophy at last.

It depends on what Satanist sect you are asking my opinion about. There's this ritualistic sect in England somewheres that I'm not particularly fond of due to things I've heard, but who knows if they're true.