May I teach a class on LaVeyan Satanism?

[Muireannach]

May I teach a class on LaVeyan Satanism?

I have noticed latley that interest in it, and misconceptions, have grown significantly of late. I would like to provide some education on the subject to those who are interested.

Thankyou,
Muireannach.

[Muireannach]

Bah! sorry, just realized I have to PM Morr.

[Anubis RainHawk]

It would be interesting. A friend at school keeps talking to me about Satanism, so I would like to be informed. If you're doing it, I think I would be interested in taking it.

Anubis RainHawk

[Ron]

May I teach a class on LaVeyan Satanism?
No.

Why not? Because I am the boss of you. :evilway: And you're not allowed to do anything but lick my toes.

Okay I admit I'm out of my mind, never mind this post... I don't exist...
STOP STARRING AT ME~!

[Threase]

I wouldn't mind learning about Satanism...

[Kenshi ~]

That would be a change, as most of the courses on MW seem more Pagan-oriented...

[Amethyst Rose]

IMO Satanism is a Pagan religion... so it would be pagan related, too :)

[Muireannach]

That would be a change, as most of the courses on MW seem more Pagan-oriented...

Well, I saw Buddhism being taught and that is not "Pagan" so judging by the interest in Satanism of late, and the interest in a variety of "alternative" faiths I thought that my request is, in fact, valid.

[Amethyst Rose]

I agree, it's completely valid and I think it would be very interesting. I say go for it! :)

[VroomBroom]

Muireannach, if you get the go ahead for this class I would be interested to learn about Sataniam.

[Suzy-Anne]

I'd love to take it! As of now I'm dabbling in it and it'd be great to reinforce my web-page browsing. So, yeah, go for it! ^^

[bshore]

So, how's the class coming? I'd be interested in learning more, too, even though I don't personally practice it.

[♪Hazel♪]

Oooh! Oooh! Pleaaaasee? Please do! Yay! Yes! I would enjoy that very much! :dancy:

[MorningDove030202]

How is Satanism Pagan? LOL Sure have a class, but I expect it will be the start of many nasty arguments that the mods with have to deal with. (Not that it doesn't ever happen here, but I think it will just cause more trouble than it's worth.)

Dove

[♪Hazel♪]

Well, if people remain respectful towards religious paths differing from their own, I really dont see that there should be any problem; And if they don't like it, they aren't being forced into anything are they?
Any particular reason MD, why Satanism should raise more of a hullabaloo than Buddhism or Animism or anything else would?

[MorningDove030202]

Because there are some aspects of Human Nature that DO NOT need to be glorified.

Dove

[Amethyst Rose]

How is Satanism Pagan? LOL Sure have a class, but I expect it will be the start of many nasty arguments that the mods with have to deal with. (Not that it doesn't ever happen here, but I think it will just cause more trouble than it's worth.)

Dove

That depends on your definition of "Pagan", doesn't it? I think that a class on it would be very respectful, because we in this forum, respect everyone's right to their religion. I don't think there'd be any arguments at all... it'd be a class, not a debate forum.



Because there are some aspects of Human Nature that DO NOT need to be glorified.


Oh? And what aspects are that? Just what do you think Satanism is that it "glorifies" some aspects of human nature, that you obviously think are negative?

Do some research, and until then, keep your thinly veiled negative opinions about this religion to yourself.

I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of all the negative attituted towards Satanism, by people who appear to be ignorant and going off of heresay and rumor. No, I'm not a Satanist, but I'll defend any religion that I think is getting a bum rap.

If I've missinterpreted your statements, then I'm sorry, this is obviously a very sensative thing for me.

[MorningDove030202]

No, you prety much are on the mark. I don't like Satanism, and I don't trust Satanists. I'd rather be honest than keep using thinly veiled negativity.

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=77050&page=1&pp=20&highlight=satan

by morning star on above link:

Satan is used because he is a ScapeGoat for sin. He is used because he rejects the idealized and wholly unnatural idea of the Abrahamic God. He is used because, who beside Satan better characterizes independent thought and the complete acceptance and glorification of human nature?

I will never be ok with it because it doesn't lead to spiritual growth and lacks morals. There is a differnece between acknowledgeing human nature and glorifying it.

Dove

[juelle]

No opinion whatsoever being said about satanism or any other religion.

The only opinion i've gotten though, from these posts, is that clearly

I expect it will be the start of many nasty arguments that the mods with have to deal with.

Your already starting to argue?

:stomp:
Just being a brat. :wink:

[MorningDove030202]

Ya, I am, in a civil manner. I am entitled to my opinions......

Dove

[Amethyst Rose]

Ya, I am, in a civil manner. I am entitled to my opinions......

Dove

Of course you are, but I really think you're uninformed on the subject, and that your opinions are based, in some part, on ignorance. In which case, I don't think they're justified.

I have to admit that I don't know a lot about Satanism. The little that I have learned from other Satanists, and religioustolerance.org, I have no problem with or objections to. However, it is because I know so little about the religion that I refuse to have a negative view of it. I think that'd be hypocritical of me, because I hate it when others make judgements about my religion because they've heard we sacrifice babies.

[CaitrionaMorgaine]

A year or so ago I had a LeVeyan Satanist attend my circle meetings. He was one of the most intelligent people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. We spoke for some time about Satanism, and I have done some study on my own.

There are so many misconceptions out there (about many types of spirituality)--I would love to have a class here about it and become more educated. I may not agree with Satanism as the correct path for myself, far be it from me to say that it is wrong for someone else.

Avalon's Blessings, ~Rhiannon

[AdNoctum]

As a Satanist myself (though non-LaVeyan) I would love to see this happen.

[Anubis RainHawk]

I will never be ok with it because it doesn't lead to spiritual growth and lacks morals. There is a differnece between acknowledgeing human nature and glorifying it.

Dove

I think the point of the class would be to understand it from an actual practioner. It's one thing to make an assumption, it's another to form an opinion on something you've researched. I'm not saying that you haven't done research yourself because I don't know. In my eyes, the point of this class would be to encourage the student to form an educated opinion based on facts rather than assumption.

Dove, I'm not trying to attack you, I just hate when things are misunderstood. If you have done research to reach your conclusions, then I apologize for my comments.

Anubis RainHawk

[bshore]

Dove this may sound insensitive of me, but please believe that I say this in the most respectful way possible:

Just because you don't like a path doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a class on it. Your comments lead me to believe that you yourself would benifit from taking this class. Either way, there is obviously a lot of interest in this subject, and I ask you to please not ruin it for those of us who would like this class.

[Pandoras]

I think a class on LaVeyan Satanism would be very interesting, but not on the basis that it's Pagan. From my research, I've come to the understanding that LaVeyan Satanism is a philosophical view that has little to do with religion. Most of them are atheists and don't believe in the worship of any higher power. It's concepts based on self gratification and constant self improvements that are brought about by a rational thought process can certainly be incorporated into Pagan belief and practice much like Buddhist concepts can, but I don't think LaVeyan Satanism is Pagan in and of itself.

[LittleRhiannon]

We have tons of classes on magic, which isn't Pagan in and of itsself. In fact, we have a Christian Witchcraft class which isn't Pagan either. I don't think that should be a qualifer for teaching a class.

I'm interested, but I probably won't take it. School starts back up next week along with all that entails, so I'll be pretty busy. I will be sure to pop in and read some of it though when I have the chance.

[Muireannach]

First of all, thankyou to all who have replied with intelligent and open minded posts. I would love to ahve such people in a class as they will likely encourage intellient discussion.

I also agree hat this will lead to more ignorant posts about Satanism and hopefully a class may help them realize what they are doing is infact very "un-pagan." After all those posts of religious discrimination and misunderstandings by non-pagans towards pagans you'd think they would understand how irrritating, unfair, ignorant, and rude such comments are. But, anyways, I think if the class should happen I will only reply to intelligent and well-intended questions leaving the malicious ones un-answered. :)

Morning Dove...you do realize that we have rules right? the satanic precepts etc. We do not murder, rape, or injure others. We do not harm children, we actually revere them and consider them individuals who should be treated above and beyond what is adequate. Why don't we commit murder, rape, etc?...because our rules and "morals" forbid it. We are not a group of people who run around screaming "anarachy" and live in sloth. Believe it or not, Satanists believe in keeping their world beautiful, so you won't find them in a run down house painted black, but rather the clean, well manicured, and attractive home on the block.

[VroomBroom]

It's comments (like one's in Dove's posts), my own curiosity and not wanting to be bombarded by another Llewelyn book:rolleyes: that has me interested in taking in taking a class from someone who is a practitioner of Satanism. And then I can also inform the knobheads who seem to come running to me for all their pagan questions:2G: and I have been asked about Satanism more than once...twice......

I hope you get to teach the class. I look forward to it.

[Aidron]

Ya, I am, in a civil manner.

There is nothing civil about malice. End of story.

I am entitled to my opinions......


Of course you are. We are likewise entitled to percieve them as uninformed, invalid, and downright snotty. If the topic annoys you so perhaps you should leave Mystic Wicks since the last time I checked Satanists were just as welcomed here as anyone else. In turn, the Satanists I know and have met have far more moral honor than people, like you, who make blanket statements about their nature and how you feel about them in a rather snide fashion.

I support the class, plain and simple. Can't say I would have the time to take it, but I would like to see one available for if and when the time comes that I have to spare that I may indulge in it as well.

[Gwenhwyfar]

I don't know if Id join, don't have the time really, but I think its a great idea! Theres a class for everything els under the sun, why the heck not Satanism?!

I have to say Dove, with no disrespect intended, your very close minded on the subject and maybe should sign up for the class yourself. I really don't understand taking such a firm stance on a class you don't even have to read or think about..If you don't want the knowledge for yourself, fine, others do want it and thats not really your business to say wether they can have it or not...

[Aleigh]

I don't know if Id join, don't have the time really, but I think its a great idea! Theres a class for everything els under the sun, why the heck not Satanism?!

I have to say Dove, with no disrespect intended, your very close minded on the subject and maybe should sign up for the class yourself. I really don't understand taking such a firm stance on a class you don't even have to read or think about..If you don't want the knowledge for yourself, fine, others do want it and thats not really your business to say wether they can have it or not...

I can't think of anything to add to that...it's pretty much what I was thinking. I probably wouldn't take the class myself (because I'm already taking too many COT classes!) but I have no problem with other people having it available. I think it's a great idea if it can clear up any misconceptions. In fact, I might tell my husband about it, he's always wanted to talk to a "real Satanist" and find out what it's all about. :)

[MorningDove030202]

Yes, I'm not realy understanding why Satanists are welcomed here, beyond the fact that they are humans and should be treated in a civil polite manner. My objections to the philosophy of Satanism is based on what Satanists have here on this forum told me about their philosophy, Satanism glorifies human nature and I feel there are aspects of human nature that don't need to be glorified, that need to be risen above. So, though I admit I have been snide, I don't think I'm making undeducated statements here. The class posses a moral issue for me, being that I am not a supporter of Satanism. I may indeed decided to leave MW, though I have found it to be the best forum online for NeoPagans. As a parent and one who works online with teens, I need to be causious about who I associate with.

Dove

There is nothing civil about malice. End of story.

Of course you are. We are likewise entitled to percieve them as uninformed, invalid, and downright snotty. If the topic annoys you so perhaps you should leave Mystic Wicks since the last time I checked Satanists were just as welcomed here as anyone else. In turn, the Satanists I know and have met have far more moral honor than people, like you, who make blanket statements about their nature and how you feel about them in a rather snide fashion.

I support the class, plain and simple. Can't say I would have the time to take it, but I would like to see one available for if and when the time comes that I have to spare that I may indulge in it as well.

[Darakash]

Yes, I'm not realy understanding why Satanists are welcomed here, beyond the fact that they are humans and should be treated in a civil polite manner. My objections to the philosophy of Satanism is based on what Satanists have here on this forum told me about their philosophy, Satanism glorifies human nature and I feel there are aspects of human nature that don't need to be glorified, that need to be risen above. So, though I admit I have been snide, I don't think I'm making undeducated statements here. The class posses a moral issue for me, being that I am not a supporter of Satanism. I may indeed decided to leave MW, though I have found it to be the best forum online for NeoPagans. As a parent and one who works online with teens, I need to be causious about who I associate with.

Dove

I am not sure if I should be posting here, since i personally am not a supporter of Corellian Wicca,(and this might pose a moral issue for me since it appears you are a member of witchschool) but, first, I think a class on any form of Satanism would be interesting and might *might* help stop some of the misconceptions floating around about Satanists. As far as human nature: "AS ABOVE, SO BELOW" why not be realistic about the fact that humans have certain aspects that make us human and they should be appreciated, and may very well be of the very substance of that "above" us? How are we to know which aspects of human nature are those that should be celebrated and revered? the ones that you say?

OMG
:aburst:

[MorningDove030202]

I'm not atempting to teach Correllian wicca here, nor should I be as it already has an online school. Ultimatly what we support and what we don't is less important than how we treat eachother. Not liking Satanism is different than not linking Satanists.

War is obviously apart of human nature....should it be glorified? There is part of us that acts out in fear that can cause others to suffer, to be hurt, both physicaly and emotionaly. This part of our nature doesn't need to be glorified.

Dove



I am not sure if I should be posting here, since i personally am not a supporter of Corellian Wicca,(and this might pose a moral issue for me since it appears you are a member of witchschool) but, first, I think a class on any form of Satanism would be interesting and might *might* help stop some of the misconceptions floating around about Satanists. As far as human nature: "AS ABOVE, SO BELOW" why not be realistic about the fact that humans have certain aspects that make us human and they should be appreciated, and may very well be of the very substance of that "above" us? How are we to know which aspects of human nature are those that should be celebrated and revered? the ones that you say?

OMG
:aburst:

[Darakash]

War is obviously apart of human nature....should it be glorified? There is part of us that acts out in fear that can cause others to suffer, to be hurt, both physicaly and emotionaly. This part of our nature doesn't need to be glorified.

Dove

Well, without war, I would not live in a democratic country; without war, there might still be slavery in my country; without war, the Nazis might have continued to slaughter "unnacceptable" human beings, so, yes, in some cases, I think there is glory in war.

Fear, in addition to causing suffering can cause change and motivate us to action. However, I suppose we could point to all the "negative" human emotions and say that they should not be glorified. And then this would end up being, a cyclical conversation, so I will say that I think the nastier emotions such as fear, hatred, anger, etc., all have power to cause positive changes as well as negative ones....at the same time love and compassion can lead to negative things...I guesse, even though i am not satanist, I believe that we should not hide from or suppress parts of our nature to "rise above" them....I understand that the goal in many religions/philosphies is to join with the source/deity, but I guess what I am arguing is that I am not sure that suppressing our nature is the way to do that, and that, in fact, embracing our nature might be a more effective way of doing so. Obviously, i do not expect you to agree with me; however, i think that both of us have a right to discuss our beliefs and as such, I believe that a person who wants to share the religious philosophy, teachings of a group (even one with which many of us disagree) should have the right to do so.
Dk

[MorningDove030202]

Did I ever say you didn't have the right?

Obviously, i do not expect you to agree with me; however, i think that both of us have a right to discuss our beliefs and as such, I believe that a person who wants to share the religious philosophy, teachings of a group (even one with which many of us disagree) should have the right to do so.
Dk

There will always be conflict, it would just be nice if it could be resolved without the use of violence. There is a differnce between accepting the negative aspects of human nature for what they are and what they can acomplish for us, good and bad and the glorification of human nature.

Dove

[Darakash]

Did I ever say you didn't have the right?

Dove

Well the following sure read like you were at very least opposed to a person exercising that right:
es, I'm not realy understanding why Satanists are welcomed here, beyond the fact that they are humans and should be treated in a civil polite manner. My objections to the philosophy of Satanism is based on what Satanists have here on this forum told me about their philosophy, Satanism glorifies human nature and I feel there are aspects of human nature that don't need to be glorified, that need to be risen above. So, though I admit I have been snide, I don't think I'm making undeducated statements here. The class posses a moral issue for me, being that I am not a supporter of Satanism. I may indeed decided to leave MW, though I have found it to be the best forum online for NeoPagans. As a parent and one who works online with teens, I need to be causious about who I associate with.

Dove

Maybe I just misinterpreted. However, it seems to me that you were stating the the fact that you disagree with the tenants of Satanism leads you to oppose a class about it here, and that to me, would suggest that you are not supporting the right of a Satanist to share their views and philosophies, to the point that you would consider leaving MW if a class happened?
DK

[Romani Vixen]

Did you guys see the show on the history channel? It was on monday night and was about perceptions of Satan. They did a segment on satanists and even had a couple of clips of LaVey.

I might pop in on the class, but I'm too busy to join.

Sounds interesting... and if anyone can exit the class educated, there will be less hatred in the world.

[Darakash]

Sounds interesting... and if anyone can exit the class educated, there will be less hatred in the world.

Yeah! What she said! By the way, is there any progress on this class? I mean has it been approved, how does one join ( I am not in an MW class at this time) I think I would like to join just to understand a little better what exactly it is that a LaVeyan (is that right) believes and practices in life. I have found my own path and am happy with it, but I definitely enjoy learning about others!
DK

[Aleigh]

Did I ever say you didn't have the right?

There will always be conflict, it would just be nice if it could be resolved without the use of violence. There is a differnce between accepting the negative aspects of human nature for what they are and what they can acomplish for us, good and bad and the glorification of human nature.

Dove
What is the difference? There are positive and negative aspects of many things. In the bible there were many acts commited by the Christian god that killed thousands of people (the "great flood" comes to mind) , but Christians still worship him...the negative aspects as well as the good. :whatgives (I'm absolutely not bashing Christians, just using that as an example of people glorifying something that has both positive and negative aspects!) What is so horrible about an appreciation of human nature? Everyone is human. Many think that our nature reflects the nature of God,the Goddess, whatever they call deity, anyway, so glorifying our nature doesn't seem like such a horrible thing to me. :whatgives I am not a Satanist, and I admit I don't know much about Satanism, but the Satanists who have posted here have already stated that they don't condone rape/unprovoked violence/murder, etc, and no wars I know of were started by Satanists so, really, why this hostility? :confused: It's just a chance for people who are interested to learn more about it.

if anyone can exit the class educated, there will be less hatred in the world._handclapp

[Darakash]

What is Many think that our nature reflects the nature of God,the Goddess, whatever they call deity, anyway, so glorifying our nature doesn't seem like such a horrible thing to me. :whatgives

Very well put, and I was thinking along the same lines when I said the whole "as above, so below" thing in my post, but this is much clearer! Plus I also see many Pagan religions that incorporate many of the things that are seen as "negative" as very important parts of their myths and religions: I mean, if War is so horrible, what about the great battles in Valhalla, etc? If the only true aim is to "rise above" human nature, then why do so many Gods and Godesses have such human qualities?
dK

[Aidron]

Yes, I'm not realy understanding why Satanists are welcomed here, beyond the fact that they are humans and should be treated in a civil polite manner. My objections to the philosophy of Satanism is based on what Satanists have here on this forum told me about their philosophy, Satanism glorifies human nature and I feel there are aspects of human nature that don't need to be glorified, that need to be risen above. So, though I admit I have been snide, I don't think I'm making undeducated statements here. The class posses a moral issue for me, being that I am not a supporter of Satanism. I may indeed decided to leave MW, though I have found it to be the best forum online for NeoPagans. As a parent and one who works online with teens, I need to be causious about who I associate with.

Dove


Frankly, I think we need to be cautious of associating with you. Uneducated statements? You bet you're making them.

Satanism takes pride in human nature, it does not glorify all aspects. If you knew anything about true Satanism, you would understand that. It does not glorify stupidity, counter-productive pride, laziness, weakness, or you in your case senseless malice.

So, as you can see, it does not glorify all aspects of human nature, and while you may yet disagree with it taking pride in certain aspects of human nature and you deem that immoral that only showcases your own tunnel vision and narrow perception of the world around you.

I'm qutie tired of hearing the argument that people are entitled to their opinions. You hide behind this blanket statement as if it is supposed to shield and protect you from logical reasoning that disproves or invalidates your opinions and theories. It doesn't, never has, never will. That's just blatant cowardice.

[Aidron]

I'm not atempting to teach Correllian wicca here, nor should I be as it already has an online school. Ultimatly what we support and what we don't is less important than how we treat eachother. Not liking Satanism is different than not linking Satanists.

But if you were I do not think people would protest and refuse to permit you to do so. It is quite pathetic to whine and complain over options provided when you are not being forced to take part in these options. As Satanism teaches, "Do not complain about that which you need not subject yourself to." So, stop whining. No one is forcing you to take the class or that you even need acknowledge its existence.


War is obviously apart of human nature....should it be glorified? There is part of us that acts out in fear that can cause others to suffer, to be hurt, both physicaly and emotionaly. This part of our nature doesn't need to be glorified.

Dove

Glorified? Again, Satanism does not glorify all aspects of human nature. War is necessary and apart of our existence as a species. Always has been, no doubt always will be. War does have its silver lining. It can cut down on over population and it can stop a malevolent dictator who insists that everyone adhere to his morals (sound familiar? It should, you come across as one).

The only one acting out of fear here is you, from my point of view. Fear is not nor has it ever been glorified or even accepted within Satanism. They won't tolerate it and just as they do not tolerate stupidity.