The term 'druid'

[Maggie]

I am a worrywart. :D What follows is some information I think all of you should be aware of when cruising the Web for druidic sites, message boards, and newsgroups.

Mol has set this site up specifically as a neutral zone, no shooting allowed (Thanks Mol!). However, this isn't necessarily true elsewhere! Some definitions might help everyone 'stay safe out there'. ;)

*Historically* the term 'druid' refers only to the educated class of people who advised the king and held the laws and history of a celtic tribe. Generally this class is believed to have come to an end everywhere except in Ireland after the Romans took Britain. In Ireland the druids and the Christians are believed to have co-existed for some time until Rome won the fight between Celtic and Roman Christianity. So, on boards of the historical, living history, reenactment, etc, types, no one is going to accept anything else. Posters on these boards will demand historical references from the academic community for any other beliefs.

Celtic reconstructionists are almost as tough. These groups *start* with accepted academic sources and go from there, their stated goal is to reconstruct the celtic religions as accurately as possible. If a belief cannot be backed up at least with academic sources as a starting point, it will not be accepted. Imbas and the ADF are in this group.

I have noticed some calling themselves Celtic Revivalists these days. This group is related to the Reconstructionists, but they tend to adhere to the concept behind the practices and modify them to fit contemporary society. I think technopagans are in this group--I have an URL for a very nice laser blessing, for those interested! :)

Beyond this it gets a little less defined. Isaac Bonewits has a useful classification of paleo, meso, and neo druids on his site. Briefly the paleo is the ancient, the meso are the British revivals from the 18th century on, and the neo are the contemporary groups. The meso groups are still around--for more information see his site. I believe he considers OBOD in this group. One characteristic of these groups is the influence of Christianity and Masonry to varying degrees. Works by Phillip Carr-Gomm, Ross Nichols, and Emma Restal Orr belong here.

To be continued............

[Maggie]

Now, beyond what I've said in the previous post it gets a little fuzzy.....

One thing to keep in mind is that 'earth-based' not does not automatically define 'druidism'. ALL indigenous religions are earth-based to varying degrees, even Christianity calls for stewardship of the earth. Ancient pagans also were not automatically 'earth-friendly' either. Much of what we call environmentalism comes from 19th and 20th century philosophy that wouldn't necessarily be recognized by the ancient pagans--or even agreed with!

I have noticed a growing trend among all pagan groups to incorporate parts of different traditions to make their own path. IN MY OPINION this is actually normal human behaviour and it neither surprises me nor bothers me. I have also noticed another human characteristic among pagan groups that is common to other religious groups, and that is the belief that THEIR way is correct, and all others are not. This is also not surprising, but is just as hard to argue with among pagans as it is among others. Don't bother.

One particular area I have noticed that causes a lot of arguements is the blending of wicca and druidism. The hardline CR's get just as bent out of shape over it as do the Trad Wiccans. In fact, some Trad Wiccans believe that no one except Trad Wiccans should be using the term Wiccan. There are some characteristics that are commonly held to be wiccan, others druidic, but unless you enjoy fighting :D, go find another board.

Now, for those of you who want to know :D, I consider myself a Celtic Revivalist and belong to an ADF protoGrove in Virginia. However, that's just my path, and I tend to live by the saying Whatever Floats Your Boat. Please don't think that either I OR Twig (or anyone else for that matter) is going to insist on My Way or the Highway! :D. Thanks to Mol, we can share without shooting here! So, speak up!


Regards,

Maggie

[mol]

Thanks, Maggie...for the outline. We all do indeed walk different Paths and some other 'communities' out there dont seem to realize, or at least dont accept this.

[ELM]

Very interesting Maggie. I'm sort of out on my own here and couldn't understand why, when I express an opinion or share a belief in a 'pagan' chat room I start a huge argument. I never realised that people are so set in their chosen ways. This must be why everyone wants to tell me that I am wrong all the time! It's good to know how these groups work.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by ELM
Very interesting Maggie. I'm sort of out on my own here and couldn't understand why, when I express an opinion or share a belief in a 'pagan' chat room I start a huge argument. I never realised that people are so set in their chosen ways. This must be why everyone wants to tell me that I am wrong all the time! It's good to know how these groups work.

I noticed sometime ago that religious beliefs are among the most strongly held beliefs human beings have. It doesn't matter WHAT religion they belong to, there are pagan fundamentalists as well as any other kind. Rather disconcerting, but true............

Regards,

Maggie

[Daniel]

In regards to the existence of "fundamentalist" pagans, I have a theory (as, I'm sure, does everybody else).

Consider the context within which a lot of neopagans make and explore their theological options:

1. They are met with a lot of intolerance, fear and ignorance, or
2. They see enough of their brethren in such a situation (or hear enough about such treatment second- and third-hand) that they take it to heart, or
3. They are already in a situation where they receive such treatment before they begin their exploration.

Regardless of what the exact mix of the above three options turns out to be for the individual, the reaction I've noticed is one of reciprocal intolerance. This strikes me as being perfectly natural -- you get sick and tired of being singled out (or feeling singled out), so you create or join a structure that excludes those who persecute you, either ''de facto'' or ''de jour.''

After all, who truly expects the Christian brother who has been coming on strong about the Gospel to come to an open circle and preach to everybody there?

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Daniel
In regards to the existence of "fundamentalist" pagans, I have a theory (as, I'm sure, does everybody else).

Consider the context within which a lot of neopagans make and explore their theological options:

1. They are met with a lot of intolerance, fear and ignorance, or
2. They see enough of their brethren in such a situation (or hear enough about such treatment second- and third-hand) that they take it to heart, or
3. They are already in a situation where they receive such treatment before they begin their exploration.



Well, you need to add a number four there. My experience has been with older pagans, particularly of the reconstructionist type. These tend to be as positive that their way is the only correct way--generally with stacks of books at their elbow--as any theologian with his/her references. With those types it has nothing to do with previous experiences re non-pagans.

Regards,

maggie

[Daniel]

Originally posted by Maggie


Well, you need to add a number four there. My experience has been with older pagans, particularly of the reconstructionist type. These tend to be as positive that their way is the only correct way--generally with stacks of books at their elbow--as any theologian with his/her references. With those types it has nothing to do with previous experiences re non-pagans.




How could I forget? I've run into similar difficulties, but with younger neopagans who seem to think that reading the tallest stack of books on a particular subject (especially if those books are ''the oldest'') puts them in a similar position; they ''know'' the most, and are therefore in a position to dictate fact to everybody else.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Daniel


How could I forget? I've run into similar difficulties, but with younger neopagans who seem to think that reading the tallest stack of books on a particular subject (especially if those books are ''the oldest'') puts them in a similar position; they ''know'' the most, and are therefore in a position to dictate fact to everybody else.

<giggle> I generally win if the contest is about who's got the highest stack! I'm a book junkie.............. :D

Regards,

Maggie