Ghost story. Beware! Fuzzy feeling.

[Silver_FireStar]

I may have a few facts wrong, but this is how I have heard it.

In the 1940's a school bus set off to take some children home. It stalled on a set of railway tracks and before the children could get out a train hit it and everyone in the bus died. Now there are streets named after each child and remarkably there has not been another accident on those tracks.

There is a zone around the tracks, which goes uphill. If you take your foot off the break and turn off the ignition and place your car in neautral, it will travel up this hill and over the tracks, back downhill again. And i you put a fine powder on the boot and bumper of your car, small childrens fingerprints will appear.

I was just watching a re-enactment of it and couldn't help but cry the first time I say it, and it gave me a fuzzy feeling to know that these children are watching over people.

[LittleRhiannon]

A gravity hill :) they have them all over here, most having their own ghost story. I've yet to try one, but I want to go soon.

[Silver_FireStar]

yeah but if it is a gravity hill how come it only became one after the bus got smushed?

[LittleRhiannon]

yeah but if it is a gravity hill how come it only became one after the bus got smushed?

Oh, I'm not saying that it being a gravity hill means that the ghosts don't exist - thats just what those kinds of hills/hauntings are called.

[equinox2]

Hi-

“gravity hills” are usually places were local geography makes it look like you are on level or uphill ground, when in fact you are on a slight downhill grade. They are all over, I know of one in upper Michigan. Railroad tracks aren’t rare either, so it makes sense that sometimes there will happen to be a railroad track on a “hill” like that. Then, all you have to add is a touching story about little ghostly hands, and ta-da, an urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/ghosts/hndprint.asp

One thing that should tip us all off about this is the fact that the ghostly phenomena is predictable (happens in the same place when something happens – when you put a car there). Thus, it should be easy to test it experimentally. It would be a huge news item if ANY ghostly phenomenon were verified by scientists, so the fact that this hasn’t happened says something about this legend.

It is a touching story, but a little too touching to be just taken at face value.

Yours in spookyness-

[Silver_FireStar]

not urban legend, true story about the kids dying there and fingerprints appearing.

[BabblingImp]

I saw them do an expriment on tv about that years ago! Not that one is REAL, sevral people have put the powder on their car and the hand prints apear :vanish:

[equinox2]

Repeating your claim that it’s true doesn’t make it any more true than the first time you said it was true.

Legends are usually described as “true stories” – after all, would they really be as interesting if they started out “this is a made up story, but listen anyway……”. So just because you were told it was a true, or heard it was true, means little. Similarly, I hope you aren’t just believing everything you see on TV or printed on paper.

Maybe it is true. If so, please supply some reference to evidence or data. Without that, I’d be insulting my own mind by just accepting it as if it were true. If it is just a hearsay story, then that’s fine, it can still be a touching story. I’m just pointing out that we shouldn’t just believe everything that claims to be a “true story”, whether it’s a touching story or not.

May your mind soar like the eagle-

[Silver_FireStar]

It's true because I was telling someone else in America and she said that she had done the same thing. And as Bablingimp has seen the experiment there you go. Besides, it's illegal in this country to claim something is true on tv when it isn't. Which is why they say strange but true on this. There may not be ghosts, but kids did die there, read some back dated papers, and people have stalled their engines and seen fingerprints. So if it insults you, poor you. I don't care if you can't see something which you could easily check out as true or false yourself.

[LadyTrinity]

I have seen gravity hills on tv. they look sooo bizarre!! :woot:

[equinox2]

Silver Firestar Wrote:

read some back dated papers, and people have stalled their engines and seen fingerprints. So if it insults you, poor you. I don't care if you can't see something which you could easily check out as true or false yourself.

Oh, I’m sorry if I made you mad – I just pointing out that the burden of proof for any claim is on the person who made the claim.

In other words, I can’t just say “the invisible pink unicorn exists, so prove me wrong!”. No, if I’m going to claim something is true, then it is up to me to show why I think that, not to just throw out claims and expect everyone else to do my work for me.

All I’m asking for is some supporting evidence I can examine myself – like a link to one of those newspaper articles, or something. In fact, it is trivial to do that work, so I’ve done a quick search (as I did before) and here are some sites:

http://www.pendasrealm.com/Ghost.html Which has:

First some facts (Special thanks to the Archives of the San Antonio Express-News):
The streets are not named for the dead children. They are named for the grandchildren of the developer of the Subdivision. Gee, and some of us just get money inside a card.

The fingerprints found on the bumpers can come from anywhere and can be as old as the car. People touch stuff - it happens. Unless you polish your chrome regularly, and with great care and diligence, mere soap and water will not remove them. The powder, coupled with a little humdity and ridiculous amounts of time can produce those creepy fingerprints.

As for the heart-wrenching cries, there is a peacock farm up the road, and they can get quiet noisy. Out in the middle of no-where, with the moon shining down and your girlfriend snuggling against you, the cries of a peacock or a loon can sound like the screams of a child being run over by a train.

Gravity may also be playing a part in this little mystery. Similar examples with "mysterious helpers" are Gravity Road in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, and Spook Hill in Lake Wales, Florida. If coming from the Shane side of the tracks, which is the preferred direction, the road rises to meet the tracks about four feet before and once they meet, it drops about seven feet and makes a serious right turn to run parallel with the tracks. From the East, the incline and subsequent decline are imperceptible but a survey crew has been out in the last ten years and records this as fact.

So no dead children, no mysterious helping hands, just a strange optical illusion and a bunch of squawking peacocks.

It's amazing what boys will think up to get their girls into the backseats of cars.

A more detailed investigation is at :
http://www.ntskeptics.org/2003/2003november/november2003.htm

Which has:

… after some diligent research and a few phone calls, she finally got what she was looking for.

The accident occurred on December 1, 1938. At 8:43 a.m., a school bus loaded with students was heading for Jordan High School. Visibility was severely compromised by a snowstorm and heavy fog when the bus crossed the railroad tracks. The Flying Ute, a freight locomotive belonging to the Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad, plowed into the bus, killing 23 Jordan students as well as the bus driver. It was the worst motor vehicle accident in American history at that time.

There was just one little detail that somehow got overlooked. The accident took place in the small town of Midvale, Utah, which sits just south of Salt Lake City – some 1,100 miles northwest of San Antonio.

And…..

As for the fingerprints showing up on people's cars, many people wash their cars to remove dirt and older fingerprints before they drive over the tracks in order to avoid picking up their own prints. Their cars are definitely clean - but only up to a certain point. Just as traces of blood can be discovered with Luminol on floors and carpets despite careful cleaning, fingerprints demonstrate a similar resiliency due to the oils secreted by fingers that cause the prints (ask any criminal investigator). These oils are surprisingly durable and resistant, and can remain on most car surfaces, including chrome, for weeks or even years despite various rainstorms and trips to the car wash. This is yet another reason why museum curators become displeased if anyone touches the exhibits. Your best bet would be to wash the car with a degreaser rather than traditional car washing compounds and then see if any fingerprints show up after the car clears the tracks.

And the occasional screams heard at the site? There's a peacock farm on Shane Road not too far away from the tracks. Suffice it to say that not all birds go "tweet-tweet."

While the story of the San Antonio Ghost Children is indeed fascinating, our investigation seems to cast doubt on any poltergeist activity at the railroad tracks, providing scientific explanations for many of the phenomena observed at the site. Ours is by no means the last word on this subject, as some folks also claim to have captured ghosts on photographs and videotape at the crossing. We'll leave such images for another time, though, especially considering that if any haunting resulted from the bus crash, it seems more reasonable to expect the ghosts to appear in a small Utah town instead of in San Antonio.

I wrote:
Similarly, I hope you aren’t just believing everything you see on TV or printed on paper.

Silver Firestar wrote:
Besides, it's illegal in this country to claim something is true on tv when it isn't.

Should I take that as a “yes”?

Look, I’m sorry if my previous posts have seemed confrontational. I really don’t mean them that way, and I bet we have a lot in common. I’m just pointing out an important step in critical thinking (that of the burden of proof being on the person making the claim), one that is needed more and more today in our information age. To swallow a paranormal explanation before natural ones have been examined and ruled out only makes people who believe in ghosts (and often Pagans in general) look silly.

Take care-

[Silver_FireStar]

I have seen gravity hills on tv. they look sooo bizarre!! :woot:

Ahhh I've never seen one before. I live on the penines so it is steeply uphill or steeply downhill. My legs are so fit growing up here. I tell you, walking on stillhetos is either straight or still uphill. :D

[Silver_FireStar]

I can only be bothered to read this much of what you have written:
Look, I’m sorry if my previous posts have seemed confrontational. I really don’t mean them that way, and I bet we have a lot in common. I’m just pointing out an important step in critical thinking (that of the burden of proof being on the person making the claim), one that is needed more and more today in our information age. To swallow a paranormal explanation before natural ones have been examined and ruled out only makes people who believe in ghosts (and often Pagans in general) look silly.

Take care-
And all I have to say, and my last post to you on this subject is, I may be young but I ain't gullible. I don't believe in everything I see on TV but I do know that the channel I watch has never lied to me and is the first to say that aliens, ghosts, whatever probably don't exist but here's how we come to believe in them and there MAY be ghosts there. And stubbornly refusing to listen looks more silly than those who have faith in things they can't see. And pagans in general? Hun, more people believe me when I say I believe in ghosts than they do anyone else who says so. Pagans don't look any more silly for believing in things than anyone else. Enough said. Goodbye

[erlynn]

And all I have to say, and my last post to you on this subject is, I may be young but I ain't gullible. I don't believe in everything I see on TV but I do know that the channel I watch has never lied to me and is the first to say that aliens, ghosts, whatever probably don't exist but here's how we come to believe in them and there MAY be ghosts there. And stubbornly refusing to listen looks more silly than those who have faith in things they can't see. And pagans in general? Hun, more people believe me when I say I believe in ghosts than they do anyone else who says so. Pagans don't look any more silly for believing in things than anyone else. Enough said. Goodbye

From what I've been reading, I don't think Equinox is saying that ghosts don't exist, I just think he was saying that not every story out there is true and one should do proper research so he/she doesn't end up looking silly. I really don't think the posts were directed at you personally (IMHO) but it seems that you have taken it that way and that's a shame. It also seems that you may be the one who is "stubbornly refusing to listen" to a really good suggestion.

Maybe you have some personal ghost stories? I think those are a lot more interesting and fun! :)

[Silver_FireStar]

I live in deepcar. Deepcar, stocksridge and bolsterstone. Of course I know a fair few ghost stories, most about the local families.

[Starry Di]

About the whole "Is this real" thing, Snopes is a *very* reliable source. They are paid people who go out and find out if urban legends are true or not. So I'm guessing it's not true :(

[equinox2]

Hi-

It’s not hard to take the time to research your claim before posting it. Plus, – you can think of it as a way to be ready to respond to jerks like me who might otherwise be a pain in the butt……

Silver Firestar wrote:
more people believe me when I say I believe in ghosts than they do anyone else who says so.

I’ll join those people. I also believe that you believe in ghosts. And that’s fine. Lots of people believe in ghosts. ….. Sorry, I couldn’t resist the easy joke. No offense meant… :hehehe:

Silver Firestar wrote:
Enough said. Goodbye

Oh well. We may disagree on this topic. I’m sure there are plenty of other topics we agree on. I look forward to discussing them in a more friendly way later. Until then, I’m sorry for making your day less fun. I do value your input, and I don’t want to discourage you or bring you down.

Namaste-

[Silver_FireStar]

Starry Di
it is true. as I've already said, maybe the ghosts don't really do it, but there are fingerprints left and they cars never get stuck on those lines. And that's the truth and I know that these basic facts are true, I also know that the school bus crashed there.
And I have said this before. What I failed to mention is that the show I got this info off is trying to disprove stories that can't be backed up with fact. Legends.

[Lady Avalon]

We have a hotel in the French Quarter that originally was a school. The school was burned and many children died in the fire. To this day, the hotel is haunted. About 85% of the French Quarter has been documented as being haunted.

On more than one occasion it has been documented that the Haunt has saved a life.

[WolfMoon]

I saw that show which talked about the children and the railroad tracks. It could neither be proved nor disproved.

Personally, I'm all up for ruling out any and all 'mundane causes' before attributing it to a haunting.

[Silver_FireStar]

We were heavily bombed in the ww2, they wanted our steelworks but instead got houses and farms. This has led the the crazy bypass monk who is more bad than good the amount of accidents on death road and scratches on cars. We mined hence the two children who wander up near bolsterstone. Haunted schools, houses, death road, normal roads. I love the local ghost stories.

[Xentor]

Admin mode

Moved to The Paranormal.