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Kaylara
March 6th, 2001, 12:12 PM
Prompted by another thread I read, I found this article, and thought that it should be shared with all of you.


The drug war problem

http://www.jewishworldreview.com -- WITH THE WITHDRAWAL of Linda Chavez, John Ashcroft becomes the obvious lightning rod for critics of President-elect George W. Bush. In their view, the former senator is too pro-life, too anti-gun control and too critical of activist judges to be attorney general.

Leave it to the left to get it wrong. Ashcroft is right on all of these issues. Where he is wrong is drug policy. Alas, his liberal assailants are often no better.

Two decades into an increasingly draconian war on drugs failure surround us. There is actor Robert Downey Jr., now facing another set of drug charges. There is Cameron Reagan, grandson of President Ronald Reagan, who was recently caught with marijuana and ordered into a drug management program.

Drug use by these and many others often has tragic consequences. But, jailing users creates even more disastrous results.

Indeed, President Clinton now says minor pot smokers shouldn't go to jail. And his drug czar, Barry McCaffrey, opines that most nonviolent addicts don't belong in prison.

But, President Clinton and company spent eight years jailing drug users. His administration did nothing to change federal drug policy.

To the contrary, the Clinton crowd presided over the arrest and imprisonment of millions of Americans, managed a steady assault on the civil liberties of all citizens, innocent as well as guilty, and fought every reform attempt, such as state medical marijuana initiatives. The president and his minions give hypocrisy a bad name.

It should be obvious to all that the drug war is a failure. Consumption has long varied irrespective of enforcement practices. More than 80 million people have tried drugs, 15 million of them last year.

Most, like the outgoing and incoming presidents, are casual consumers who can and do quit. Three-quarters of current drug users are employed, filling corporate boardrooms and legislative chambers.

The threat of prosecution may discourage some occasional use, but that's not the problem. The drug war obviously does much less to stop addicts, the 3.6 million people, like Downey, estimated to be dependent on drugs.

Nor do endless arrests and imprisonments protect children. Teen demand for marijuana has dropped some, but demand for ecstasy has doubled over the last five years. Half of teens have tried illicit substances and most say drugs are readily available.

Indeed, it is drug prohibition that has created the sort of black market that targets kids. No teens wear beepers selling Scotch whiskey in high school.

So little effect, but at such high cost: the government spent $75 billion on the drug war over the last five years, which is 25 times the inflation-adjusted spending on Prohibition in the 1920s. Alas, the expense goes well beyond money.

Two million people now fill federal and state prisons. One-fourth of state and 60 percent of federal prisoners are serving drug-related charges; most had no prior convictions for violent crimes.

Then there's pervasive corruption, warrantless searches, endless wiretaps, abusive property seizures, and hideous mandatory minimums, which put minor drug sellers in prison for longer than murderers. Americans are losing their precious freedom birthright.

Instead of making us more secure, such police state tactics create more crime. As with Prohibition, most drug-related violence is actually drug law-related violence: in illegal businesses, disputes cannot be resolved peacefully. For instance, in early January, the trial began of a Washington, D.C., drug gang thought to have murdered at least 18 people.

In short, drug prohibition fails any rational, practical cost/benefit analysis. It also fails in moral terms.

Drug abuse is not only a health but also a spiritual issue, an attack on the inherent dignity of the human person, something which John Ashcroft, with strong religious convictions, surely understands. But, that does not justify the government jailing someone to prevent him from hurting himself.

Government must punish thieves and murderers, who threaten others. It should not similarly punish those who hurt only themselves, especially since many drug users are actually as responsible as the average drinker. Businesses, churches, families and other community institutions, not government, should take the lead in combating all forms of substance abuse.

If Ashcroft is out of step on anything, it is not abortion - the majority of Americans reject hideous procedures like partial-birth abortion. Rather, it is his support for the drug war. But, many of his left-wing critics are no better.

In November, voters passed measures decriminalizing personal use of marijuana, allowing use of pot by the ill, emphasizing treatment over punishment and restricting property forfeitures. Most Americans understand that there is no easy solution for drug abuse, but that current policy is not working. It is time to treat drug abuse as a health, moral, and spiritual rather than criminal problem.
Found at: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/bandow.html
What are your thoughts on this?

Kaylara

sherry
March 8th, 2001, 11:04 PM
I'm not sure how others feel but here goes nothing!!
As a proud member of NORML I personally think that the government is wasting time and tax $ fighting the small town smokers. After 21 years I don't feel like it is an addiction, I have gone weeks months and even over a year and when I choose to then I do. I truthfully feel that I harm nobody including myself by my nasty little habit. I never drove my car under the influence of this and I do not have children to be affected. I never had the desire to smoke this and then go to work!! As a nurse I think it is a joke to tell people it kills brain cells and that is why you shouldn't do it. PLEASE do you think that if you drink yourself into a stupor you haven't done more damage! If you have so much stress you feel like going postal on you boss what have you done to your body, muscle cramping and strain-the tension alone could give you a stroke- you don't sleep-your crabbier by the minute- you don't eat right-you affect everyone around you with your moods and soon they are like you.
I fell that if I can relieve my stress in this minor natural grown way that I have harmed no one I awake in the morning rested ready to try this again I am not hung over with a liver that is just screaming shoot me and get it over! I can think of a better way to deal with what caused my stress and work my way to a solution instead of rumors and grouching my way thru another day making everyone I meet miserable.
Many cultures have considered it a gift and if I had a job in Fiji I would move there where it grows wild and is legal to do what you want and they have the lowest crime stats of any country!!

gunner
March 8th, 2001, 11:51 PM
i don't and never have used even marijuana, i'm content with my bottle of tullamore dew in moderation, the thing that bothers me about the "war on drugs" is the erosion of our civil liberties that comes with it. that is more dangerous than the drugs in the long run, in a "war" you quickly begin to see an "the end justifies the means" mentality forming and we end up with every minor traffic stop turning into a "consent search" with "well if you have nothing to hide you won't mind me searching your car" and almost automatic call outs of "forced entry teams" for every situation as well as "sealed warrants" and leading to a general public resentment of the police when the fault lies far above their heads. i also see serious problems with the "asset forfieture" laws that are turning into a legal racket where cars, money and property can and have been siezed "on suspicion" and good luck getting it back, "property has no legal rights" (think this is paranoia? get caught carrying a few thousand in cash on the road and see how fast it turns into "drug money") no, the "war on drugs is a losing proposition for everyone except those in power wanting more power.
"gunner"

Kaylara
March 9th, 2001, 08:54 AM
What pisses me off is that people who commit murder and rape get less time in jail than people who sell or grow drugs. I just found out that it is a MANDATORY sentence in my state of 50 years in prision for someone who is convicted of growing marijauna. But in the united states, the average amount of time murderers spend in jail is three years. WHERE IS THE LOGIC HERE?

Kaylara

gunner
March 9th, 2001, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Kaylara
What pisses me off is that people who commit murder and rape get less time in jail than people who sell or grow drugs. I just found out that it is a MANDATORY sentence in my state of 50 years in prision for someone who is convicted of growing marijauna. But in the united states, the average amount of time murderers spend in jail is three years. WHERE IS THE LOGIC HERE?

Kaylara

i agree kaylara, something is seriously out of joint there, particularly when most of the marijuana users i've seen basically wanted to lay back and enjoy their high without bothering anyone while we have serial killers running amok and getting what amounts to a slap on the wrist.

Niamh
March 9th, 2001, 11:46 AM
I agree with you guys, too! They're sending some of the happiest caringest people to jail!;)

Earth Walker
March 9th, 2001, 01:28 PM
As far as the US drug wars go, Dumbya is a total
hypocrite...it is well known that he makes regular
and/or frequent trips to Mexico for the nose-candy,
as well as the alcohol parties.
Have any of you read the the book: The Fortunate Son?
It is very revealing about Duhmbya.
It is published by SoftSkull Press, and it may be
purchased on-line at amazon.com.

Niamh
March 9th, 2001, 01:38 PM
Unfortunately, I think many of our politicians here in the US are hypocritical. And the press tends to be moralist, so the politicians who are honest about their personal lives are blasted away for admitting to doing things that a majority of the population do.
NO! I'm not saying that we all go to Mexico for drugs and alcohol!
But, for example, Al Gore was blasted by the media because he was drafted (or perhaps he signed up, can't remember) but he went to Viet Nam "kicking and screaming." What?! What 18 year old was really excited about having to go?! What person any age?! Plus, it's easy enough for someone who's never lived in a time of great threat to say that...
Sorry, I got way off topic!

Mariposa De La Luna
March 9th, 2001, 01:46 PM
More like a racist front.

I was watching a show on the beginnings of making marijuana illegal on the History Channel. It started because they were trying to stop the Mexicans from coming into the country. All the things said about pot back then was propaganda. There is no evidence that says pot is addictive unlike alcohol and caffiene. The legislation did not even have the support of that large group of doctors, the AMA or something, I forget. Reps didn't want to go against it because all the newspapers were saying it caused people to go crazy and rape and murder. So this starts the ball rolling for all the other laws against drugs and such to protect us from their evils.

Earth Walker
March 9th, 2001, 01:57 PM
I believe in the legalization of marijuana, or at the
very least, decriminalization of pot. It is a natural
herb and it is not addictive. You never hear of anyone
being impaired(driving while stoned).
I am against alcohol, it is a very destructive drug!
I am also against the chemically, artificially produced
drugs...PCP...Heroin...Cocaine....
We have a political party in Canada, the Marijuana
Party; and they don't blow no smoke(no pun intended)

gunner
March 9th, 2001, 04:52 PM
actually the marijuana ban was in large part the result of a bureaucrat looking for a way to keep his job alive after the end of alcohol prohibition "harry anslinger" pushed the marijuana ban to keep his "prohibition enforcement agency" in business. from that agency descended the two most dangerous agencies we now have "dea" and "batf" both of which are rogue agencies with a low regard for the law and constitution and a propensity for extra-legal actions. (and this said by a person who generally supports the cops.)
"gunner"

Yvonne Belisle
March 9th, 2001, 06:51 PM
Personally I have never done drugs but I have lots of friends who have and I agree with their arguments. If we leagalize we can regulate quality. Look how many people die because something they bought was not safe. I think some should only be available by perscription and some not at all. Pot I won't allow in my house because I won't risk loosing my kids but I don't see why it's illegal. The friends I have had that smoke it end up one of several ways happy, dopey, or sleeping. They all wind up hungry and usually horny I can't see them going out to do stupid stuff they don't have enough energy after they are done or they are to relaxed. Where is the problem with that?

Dextra
March 9th, 2001, 09:44 PM
I'm not ashamed to say it: I smoke pot. I have done so for about 10 years and have yet to see any side effects or addictive qualities. I don't do any other type of drugs, for that matter, I don't even like taking aspirin! I don't drink for the most part, only the occasional beer or glass of wine at social functions. My stepfather is lying in the hospital at this very moment from complications from alcoholism. He has hepatitis and his liver and other body functions are shutting down. He's an alcohol junkie and has been so for over 25 years. His dealer? Any liquor store.

The thing that pisses me off is that you see all these ads on TV and in newspapers that say that marijuana is a drug that leads you to other drugs that will ultimately destroy your life. The next commercial you see is two guys walking in the desert. One of them opens a beer bottle and suddenly there in a tropical paradise with girls in bikinis dancing around a swimming pool. The lesson? Drugs will destroy your life. Beer - it's magically delicious! What the !@#$ is that all about?!

I have seen several friends, family members, and acquantinces die from alcohol. Whether it be from drunk driving, alcoholism, or other such activities. But yet it's readily available to anyone with an ID that says they're 21. And some stores don't even bother to check if you look old enough. But marijuana, a plant that grows in the ground, is illegal? I'm having a hard time with this one.

In the thousands of years that pot has been smoked, NOT ONE PERSON has died from an overdose. I've seen plenty of people who died from ODing on other drugs, and my own brother nearly died of alcohol poisoning, twice.

The government doesn't want to legalize or decriminalize pot because they're making too much money off it. And if they were to legalize it, they'd regulate it the same way they do any other drug, and it would only be available by prescription, so that really wouldn't be legalizing it for the person who just likes to enjoy a smoke every now and then. Or on another twist, they could legalize it and regulate it the way they do cigarettes. Then you would have lousy weed, and if you wanted to get anything stronger than what the government gives you, then you would have to look on the black market.

I would be a happy camper if they would just decriminalize it and just leave all us people who want to just kick back, have a smoke and a smile alone.

Now if I can just find a way to make a stoned smiley...... well guess this will have to do B-)

gunner
March 9th, 2001, 10:26 PM
as above, i don't use grass, i enjoy my alcohol in moderation (one bottle will last me most of a year) but i've got no problem with them as enjoy a quiet toke at home either, just do me a favor, just as i don't strap on my sidearm or drive after i've had a drink or two, don't drive. grass also alters your perceptions and reaction times adversly and i don't like burying friends. i've done it too often.

Niamh
March 10th, 2001, 03:06 PM
I agree, people shouldn't drive after smoking pot. I wouldn't want to! And I see no problem with legalization; it makes too much sense! It also makes sense to tell your kids not to do it; it's illegal and they really can get into a lot of trouble if caught!
By the way, have any of you ever seen "Reefer Madness"?

Dextra
March 10th, 2001, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Niamh
I agree, people shouldn't drive after smoking pot. I wouldn't want to! And I see no problem with legalization; it makes too much sense! It also makes sense to tell your kids not to do it; it's illegal and they really can get into a lot of trouble if caught!
By the way, have any of you ever seen "Reefer Madness"?

I've seen Reefer Madness! Some of the most idiotic crap I've ever seen, but it was funny because of the stupidity! If it were legal I wouldn't have a problem with my kids doing it, as long as they weren't out doing goddess know what while they're doing it. I'd prefer they do it at home where I could keep an eye on them. Plus, I would want them to get it from me, because I know from personal experience that there are jerks out there who will sprinkle a little "something extra" into joints. Of course, I say this assuming that by the time my kids are smoking pot that they would be at least 16 or 17. They're only toddlers now :)

I look at it this way: with the history of alcoholism in my family, I would rather catch my kids with a joint than a beer. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong....

Niamh
March 10th, 2001, 04:10 PM
I can definitely see where you're coming from as far as your children go, Dextra! And who knows... maybe it will be legal by the time they consider it. ;)

gunner
March 10th, 2001, 08:07 PM
"reefer madness", per my above comment about harry anslinger saving his job and power. "reefer madness" was a straight propaganda job, sponsored by anslinger to whip up a frenzy against marijuana. potraying users in the worst possible light and wildly exaggerating if not outright falsifying the "facts" of which there were dammed few in the film. as somebody else pointed out it ended up as a "black comedy" though given the current situation and the abuses of power we see almost daily the humor gets hard to see.
"gunner"

Niamh
March 11th, 2001, 12:15 PM
I watched "reefer madness" in a college course. My professor was going over government propaganda in a big way. While you can laugh at the things in the movie... it's a scary thing.

Earth Walker
March 11th, 2001, 05:02 PM
:sunny: I am hoping to run as an MLA in our upcoming
provincial election...for the Green Party, and if I am
successful...I am going to push for the de-criminalization
of marijuana. :cool: :D

richardcranium
March 11th, 2001, 05:08 PM
If you are successful in getting it legal in canada there will be alot of americans moving to canada.