Enemy Gods?

[Pure Ahimsa]

MM All
I was just wondering...is their any people out there who have Gods as enemies? Or has anyone evoked/invoked/etc Gods that they do not like, or anything else like that?

[Darakash]

MM All
I was just wondering...is their any people out there who have Gods as enemies? Or has anyone evoked/invoked/etc Gods that they do not like, or anything else like that?

EGAD! that would be scary! but I am curious why anyone would invoke a god they do not like? when i saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be about gods that are enemies with each other...those that you might NEVER want to call at the same time, etc. But hmmm, now I am interested in seeing what others say. I certainly do no see any God as my enemy. And even if the thought sneaked out, I am not sure i would have the cajones to say it out loud or write it down!LOL....Although, hmmm, is there a personifcation of Isfet (as in destructive chaos that is the enemy of Maat?) I think there are those who would say this is Set, but I don't agree, I think Set is necessary to Maat....
DK

[Pure Ahimsa]

If the God was negitive to me, I would ignore it, I would tell it how I think, simple as that. But I do not have any enemies that are Gods. I do not think I have enemies at all, that I know of lol. Just wondering, hehe.

[Verthandi]

There are some deities that I won't invoke because of the feel of them, their energy, if you will. Marduk, Set and Sekhmet are a couple of them. I'm not saying their bad or evil or horrible, I just personally don't want anything to do with them.

[Darakash]

There are some deities that I won't invoke because of the feel of them, their energy, if you will. Marduk, Set and Sekhmet are a couple of them. I'm not saying their bad or evil or horrible, I just personally don't want anything to do with them.
:sadeyes: That makes me sad, she(Sekhmet) is really quite helpful, honest! No, really, I understand, I personally don't want anything to do with some god/desses myself. That is a good way of putting it.
DK

[Pure Ahimsa]

Well, I guess that any God/dess can be helpful to some, that some will be attracted to it and some will want nothing to do with that deity.

[Anubis RainHawk]

The deities that don't like each other...I emidiately think of Pele and Her sister. If I remember correctly, Pele is the Hawiian volcano goddess and her sister (the water, I think) really dislike. I remember reading that you can see their battle when the lava flows into the ocean.

Osiris and Seth are probably not the best of friends either. I couldn't imagine Lillith working well with any male deity, or with any male period, which is why I don't want anything to do with her.

I have never invoked any deities that have been in conflict. I would think it's a bad idea, but you never know until you try....but I don't think I'll do that anytime soon.

Anubis RainHawk

[nia]

define 'enemy' for me, would you please?

there are gods to whom my path is opposed, and with whom i do not seemyself ever being compatible, but i dont know that i would call them enemies. i do not dislike them personally, or have anything against what they do. their purpose is as important to them as mine is to me. we just dont happen to agree.

[banondraig]

MM All
I was just wondering...is their any people out there who have Gods as enemies? Or has anyone evoked/invoked/etc Gods that they do not like, or anything else like that?

my roommate used to invoke Set, Who i found to be way creepy.

recently i had some dreams about Him trying to come after me, and a Goddess dressed in white, carrying a spear, chased Him away for me. i asked Her name, and she said, "Athena". how weird is that for someone on the celt/norse path?

[Karma Chameleon]

MM All
I was just wondering...is their any people out there who have Gods as enemies? Or has anyone evoked/invoked/etc Gods that they do not like, or anything else like that?


I myself would be leery of invoking any monotheistic God, particularly one that commanded not to worship any other Gods besides him, because I am polytheistic and do worship many gods. I'd be liable to piss the God off because I don't follow his commands but yet I invoke him.

But no, I don't have any Gods as enemies, and I am glad I don't. That'd be scary.

[AlAskendir]

MM All
I was just wondering...is their any people out there who have Gods as enemies? Or has anyone evoked/invoked/etc Gods that they do not like, or anything else like that?

Not exactly. I had a Christian friend once, who didn't want to commit to anything, whether Christian or not, but kept inquiring into becoming a mage/ witch. Afgter multiple Tarot readings that said 'No!' over and over again, he insisted on being introduced to some gods. Complying, I cut a circle and invited Kernunnos and a couple of others. Kernunnos arrived, radiated disapproval and ran off, sending into my mind (in my experience, K doesn't like to talk very much) 'Not one of mine!' Since then, this guy has gotten more and more into paganism, but people whose judgement I trust have determined on their own that he is mostly a 'poser'.

[AlAskendir]

The deities that don't like each other...I emidiately think of Pele and Her sister. If I remember correctly, Pele is the Hawiian volcano goddess and her sister (the water, I think) really dislike. I remember reading that you can see their battle when the lava flows into the ocean.

Osiris and Seth are probably not the best of friends either. I couldn't imagine Lillith working well with any male deity, or with any male period, which is why I don't want anything to do with her.

I have never invoked any deities that have been in conflict. I would think it's a bad idea, but you never know until you try....but I don't think I'll do that anytime soon.

Anubis RainHawk

You might be surprised with Lillith, of course it depends 'which' Lillith you get - - - the Judeaic demonization, the strange thought-form, or the Mythic layer of Astral Space's " First Wife of Adam ", who had a 'full apple', who accidentally raised the first wolf to full consciousness, and whom 'Adam' 'divorced' just before raping and taking their daughter 'Eve' as his 'wife'. She doesn't deal well with 'Adam'-ic men or Deities (but so few Deities are 'Adam'-ic), but otherwise she is very supportive.

[Anubis RainHawk]

You might be surprised with Lillith, of course it depends 'which' Lillith you get - - - the Judeaic demonization, the strange thought-form, or the Mythic layer of Astral Space's " First Wife of Adam ", who had a 'full apple', who accidentally raised the first wolf to full consciousness, and whom 'Adam' 'divorced' just before raping and taking their daughter 'Eve' as his 'wife'. She doesn't deal well with 'Adam'-ic men or Deities (but so few Deities are 'Adam'-ic), but otherwise she is very supportive.

The vision of Lillith I have is the extremely feminist entity. I have the story of Lillith as the first wife of Adam who would not go under Adam in intercourse and was cast out of the garden. I have the idea that she is so feminist that she will have nothing to do with males at all. I could be wrong, but those are my thoughts on her now. I'm not saying that she' "bad", I just don't want to have anything to do with her.

Anubis RainHawk

[Rick]

MM All
I was just wondering...is their any people out there who have Gods as enemies?
Yep... a whole race of them, called Jotuns (Giants).

Or has anyone evoked/invoked/etc Gods that they do not like, or anything else like that? Yep... Loki.

[Darakash]

Yep... a whole race of them, called Jotuns (Giants).

Yep... Loki.

Oh, do share? Details?

DK
Nosy me! :spinner:

[Rick]

:hehehehe: Not much to share, really... in the Northern Way, the Giants (basically, the Elder race of gods) are seen as the enemies, or antagonists, of the Aesir/Vanir, & therefore of humanity, as well. When I pass over, I'll take my place among the Chosen Slain in Valhalla (I've been shown my place in a vision from my Valkyrie), & will join in the battle against the Giants at Ragnarok.

Loki is a Jotun (by birth, although he was sort of 'adopted' into the Aesir). He will lead the Giants at Ragnarok. I have invoked him before, because he was the 'right man for the job', so to speak.

[Pure Ahimsa]

I mean enemy as in a deity that you do not get along with, opposite of friend? lol

[Aeres_Stormcrow]

I would not invoke Loki either, though there are many attributes to him that I like, such as his unstoppable sense of humor. But I also think he is the most childish of the gods, and not very reliable when it comes to anything that may be serious.

[Hangatyr 13]

Loki likes to fool around with my workings. He gets the job done though. He does it in weird ways, somethimes better ways. Well, that's my experience with him. There really isn't any god in the Norse/Germanic pantheon that I have a problem with including the Jotuns, though I hope I'll get to fight them at Ragnarok. I see the Jotuns as relevant to nature, so I don't hate them.

There is one god that I do hate though. His followers just call him "God".

[Rick]

Aw, I don't hate him... maybe his mindless minions... :hehehehe:

[Ojuice5001]

Sooner or later, someone had to mention him. I don't really hate him, or consider him an enemy. He's certainly a rival to the Roman gods, and therefore to me. But that doesn't mean anyone hates anyone. Yahweh has issues, but at the same time he's a genuine idealist. The world he strives for is a world of true harmony, where all things play the part he has set for them. Now he's been trying for millenia and it hasn't worked out, and it would probably be best if he stopped trying, but the attempt has been very interesting. I can respect him. Worshipping him isn't an option, of course; I presume he only wants worshippers who buy his claim to be the one true god, and I decidedly don't.

There is a god related to him that I do think of as an enemy, though. I mean the Arabian god who impersonates him, Allah. Stating my reasons would risk going off-topic, but I think it's clear that Allah is a separate god from the Judaeo-Christian god. I see Allah as having it in for any god or human who's not a Muslim; not much good to say there. Strange, some of Yahweh's followers represent him that way, but unlike Allah, I don't get that feeling from Yahweh. The intolerant Christians can be useful to Yahweh, but his long-term goals have only a passing resemblance to theirs. And in the end, he has approximately as much respect for them as they deserve.

[Pure Ahimsa]

Actually some of the Roman Gods have connections with it.

[Ojuice5001]

Good point! Yes, Yahweh's Christianity was more integrated into the pagan religious culture of the Empire than most Christians in later eras would like to admit. Or a lot of Christians in the second and third centuries, for that matter. Jupiter's cohorts and Yahweh were indeed trying to make friends with each other.

That does little to change the general picture of intense rivalry between Yahweh and everyone else, but it's food for thought.

[Pure Ahimsa]

Eh...Yahweh is not connected with the Christians what so ever. It didn't even plan the whole Jesus thing!
Pick up a phone and ask him, hehehehe (ya know what I mean)

[mothwench]

Yep... a whole race of them, called Jotuns (Giants).



bah. skadhi is a jotun, and she's not too bad. ;)

[Mjollnir]

bah. skadhi is a jotun, and she's not too bad. ;)


And those few were the exception, not the rule.

[Morr]

I dont think there are any Gods/Goddesses that I wouldnt agree to communicate with, if they call me.

I'm naturally drawn to darker Dieties, my Patron Goddess is The Morrigan. So should Loki or Set call me - I'd take the challenge.

What I *wouldnt* do is get The Morrigan and Y-H-V-H in the same room :lol: Or The Morrigan, Loki, Set and Y-H-V-H in the same space. That would be interesting though, but quite intense.

The Y-H-V-H I have come to know is not what he is made out to be in the bible. True - He wants to be #1, he's a manly man if you will. But he listens and helps you if you show faith. I am not dedicated to him nor do I worship him (even though my family is Jewish and I am Jewish by Harriatage - As well as having my family roots date back to the Priests of the Great Temple in Jerusalem), but he is constantly present in my life. I hold a mini book of Psalams with me, and I read a lot about Kabbalah (I have book of Pinchas with me - Part of Sefer HaZohar), etc. I think Shekhina kinda balances him out. She keeps him restrained :lol:

[memnoch]

I've went to Odin and Baldur in times of need, I try to stick with Loki and Hel though

[Tobias]

I've known the Christian God to be my enemy at times before, and can easily recognise it when He is opposed to certain individuals.

I was going through a period in my life where I was ignoring His calling on me. My ex was jealous of my relationship with Him, and slowly pulled me away over time. God was pissed, and would see to it that everything bad in life would happen to me.

Actually, He was still looking after my well being and safety. It does mention in the Bible how when one of His chosen one's falls away, He will treat them like a son and chastise them, and lead him back. So... "enemy" is still kind of a stretch in this case -- more like a "loving" father taking his kid out to the woodshed for a beating...

Just a little side note here before I post this: God also doesn't like it too well when He is misrepresented. Therefore, I need to amend the above statement to point out that it is my personal feeling about the situation that have caused me to express disaproval of God's chastizement methods. Unfortunately, they are real, and they do hurt. Naturaly I wish He could find some painless way to get the point across, yet apparently He either is not omnipotent or unwilling to do so. -- I'm going with the unable to do so (not-omnipotent)


Like I say though, I can recognize it in other people's lives now when God has called them, and is pissed off with them for not responding correctly. It is really tough for Christians to understand this, as so many of them are still faithfully attending church and all that, yet God has called them to a more deeper relationship. It's kind of funny; some of the most "preachy" Christians are the very ones who are pissing their God off by ignoring Him.

He also has been known to become an enemy to anyone harming one of His own. My ex is still incuring His wrath... not only for being called herself and blowing Him off, but for some of what she's done against me. **shrug** I guess I've seen enough of God's "vengence" there to (mostly :) ) cure me from feeling happy about it to just plain feeling sorry for her.

I don't know what some of you were saying earlier about God being upset about sharing his people with other gods. I guess for 20 some years I've known Him as the only one. But now a goddess who says she's either Athena or someone like her; has come forward and shown me how she's been a part of my path all along. In fact, I'm begining to wonder how many others their might be, as I have known for some time that rarely deal with the personal aspect of God. I've found the impersonal God-like force to be the most reliable in my life; even if I've had a personal chat with the one I know of as God first. I still rely on the "Force" to pave the way before I committ...

Just wondering if this impersonal force is really made up of divine entities -- that haven't been able to be personal due to my religious expectations of there being only One God...

[Morr]

I've known the Christian God to be my enemy at times before, and can easily recognise it when He is opposed to certain individuals.

I was going through a period in my life where I was ignoring His calling on me. My ex was jealous of my relationship with Him, and slowly pulled me away over time. God was pissed, and would see to it that everything bad in life would happen to me.

Actually, He was still looking after my well being and safety. It does mention in the Bible how when one of His chosen one's falls away, He will treat them like a son and chastise them, and lead him back. So... "enemy" is still kind of a stretch in this case -- more like a "loving" father taking his kid out to the woodshed for a beating...

Just a little side note here before I post this: God also doesn't like it too well when He is misrepresented. Therefore, I need to amend the above statement to point out that it is my personal feeling about the situation that have caused me to express disaproval of God's chastizement methods. Unfortunately, they are real, and they do hurt. Naturaly I wish He could find some painless way to get the point across, yet apparently He either is not omnipotent or unwilling to do so. -- I'm going with the unable to do so (not-omnipotent)


Like I say though, I can recognize it in other people's lives now when God has called them, and is pissed off with them for not responding correctly. It is really tough for Christians to understand this, as so many of them are still faithfully attending church and all that, yet God has called them to a more deeper relationship. It's kind of funny; some of the most "preachy" Christians are the very ones who are pissing their God off by ignoring Him.

He also has been known to become an enemy to anyone harming one of His own. My ex is still incuring His wrath... not only for being called herself and blowing Him off, but for some of what she's done against me. **shrug** I guess I've seen enough of God's "vengence" there to (mostly :) ) cure me from feeling happy about it to just plain feeling sorry for her.

I don't know what some of you were saying earlier about God being upset about sharing his people with other gods. I guess for 20 some years I've known Him as the only one. But now a goddess who says she's either Athena or someone like her; has come forward and shown me how she's been a part of my path all along. In fact, I'm begining to wonder how many others their might be, as I have known for some time that rarely deal with the personal aspect of God. I've found the impersonal God-like force to be the most reliable in my life; even if I've had a personal chat with the one I know of as God first. I still rely on the "Force" to pave the way before I committ...

Just wondering if this impersonal force is really made up of divine entities -- that haven't been able to be personal due to my religious expectations of there being only One God...


Christian God, as in Y-H-V-H?
This is interesting, since my experience with him is very different. And I contradict all that the Bible says :lol: yet he lets me do my thing and even guides me now and then. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with him.

[2-G]

Nobody take this offensive( for I mean no offense), but when my parents gave my room a Christian cleansing+blessing+the works with the Holy Spirit, I can't say I was too comfortable there. Even before they told me 'we took away all of your herbs and Magickal stuff' I sensed this really strict, strange, masculine energy. I can't say it was bad, it just didn't settle with me. Needless to say, I didn't feel right in that room until I blessed and cleansed the room with the Lady and Lord, aswell as with the Elements.

[Zophael]

Interesting discussion here. I don't have any real enemy deities, but I don't generally invoke any deities at all. I don't like making allies with deities. I see it as a way of asking for trouble. Some gods have enemies within pantheons and then there is the whole pantheon competition going on. I think it's a bad idea to invoke Sutekh and Ra in the same week, and I can't imagine a deity like Zeus being too thrilled about a follower invoking Thor on weekends.

[banondraig]

Nobody take this offensive( for I mean no offense), but when my parents gave my room a Christian cleansing+blessing+the works with the Holy Spirit, I can't say I was too comfortable there. Even before they told me 'we took away all of your herbs and Magickal stuff' I sensed this really strict, strange, masculine energy. I can't say it was bad, it just didn't settle with me. Needless to say, I didn't feel right in that room until I blessed and cleansed the room with the Lady and Lord, aswell as with the Elements.

i know what you mean! i feel weird on the rare occasions i have to go into a church, although the on-post chapel is so "watered-down" from also being used as a classroom that it's not too bad. i've also on occasion gotten strong "get outta here!" messages from such places.

[mucgwyrt]

Interesting discussion here. I don't have any real enemy deities, but I don't generally invoke any deities at all. I don't like making allies with deities. I see it as a way of asking for trouble. Some gods have enemies within pantheons and then there is the whole pantheon competition going on. I think it's a bad idea to invoke Sutekh and Ra in the same week, and I can't imagine a deity like Zeus being too thrilled about a follower invoking Thor on weekends.

Perhaps it was the essence of your strict parents, rather than of the christian god? After all, a cleansing and blessing of your room can be seen as a spell, and if they cast such a spell their essence is bound to linger.

Maybe with you too, banon? Maybe it was the energies of the paritioners/clergy, rather than God? :whatgives

I'm just stabbing in the dark, but I'm not christian (ohhhh no :sick: ) but its always been The Church and their interpretation of God which has turned me off so to speak, rather than the essence or presence of God himself.

[banondraig]

Perhaps it was the essence of your strict parents, rather than of the christian god? After all, a cleansing and blessing of your room can be seen as a spell, and if they cast such a spell their essence is bound to linger.

Maybe with you too, banon? Maybe it was the energies of the paritioners/clergy, rather than God? :whatgives

I'm just stabbing in the dark, but I'm not christian (ohhhh no :sick: ) but its always been The Church and their interpretation of God which has turned me off so to speak, rather than the essence or presence of God himself.

i don't know, i definitely don't like the establishment known as "the church". but this one time my mom asked me to drop off some flowers at her church for her, since i was going into town anyway. this was the same church i used to suffer myself to be dragged to, and a good number of the people knew me, at least by sight. yet when i went in there, with no intentions other than dropping off the (*^*&^(*^ flowers, i "heard" voices saying, "witch! witch!" i was the only person in the building as it was a saturday. i don't know how that could be the energy of just the parishioners. i mean, how could they possibly know that? i hadn't even told my mom yet at that point!

[2-G]

Perhaps it was the essence of your strict parents, rather than of the christian god? After all, a cleansing and blessing of your room can be seen as a spell, and if they cast such a spell their essence is bound to linger.

Maybe with you too, banon? Maybe it was the energies of the paritioners/clergy, rather than God? :whatgives

I'm just stabbing in the dark, but I'm not christian (ohhhh no :sick: ) but its always been The Church and their interpretation of God which has turned me off so to speak, rather than the essence or presence of God himself.

Well, I can't say that it was anything BAD, just very strict and masculine. It didn't have any bad intentions, just didn't set with me, but not exactly wrong, either. This hasn't been the only time this has happened. Whenever I felt that kind of energy anywhere, it didn't really swing with me. I could tell that it was very sacred, though.

[Pure Ahimsa]

I dont think there are any Gods/Goddesses that I wouldnt agree to communicate with, if they call me.

I'm naturally drawn to darker Dieties, my Patron Goddess is The Morrigan. So should Loki or Set call me - I'd take the challenge.

What I *wouldnt* do is get The Morrigan and Y-H-V-H in the same room :lol: Or The Morrigan, Loki, Set and Y-H-V-H in the same space. That would be interesting though, but quite intense.

The Y-H-V-H I have come to know is not what he is made out to be in the bible. True - He wants to be #1, he's a manly man if you will. But he listens and helps you if you show faith. I am not dedicated to him nor do I worship him (even though my family is Jewish and I am Jewish by Harriatage - As well as having my family roots date back to the Priests of the Great Temple in Jerusalem), but he is constantly present in my life. I hold a mini book of Psalams with me, and I read a lot about Kabbalah (I have book of Pinchas with me - Part of Sefer HaZohar), etc. I think Shekhina kinda balances him out. She keeps him restrained :lol:

The Cohen?

[Tobias]

Huh.

I'm really suprized that my last post went through. I thought for sure that it was another one of those ones that God wasn't too happy with, and blitzed before I could get it out there. It's happened enough times before.

Sometimes when I'm talking with someone (or typing a response online), my brain will completely go blank. At the same time inside I feel a warning from Him that He doesn't want me to go where I was headed with the conversation. I've learned from experience to just let it go -- and try and find a graceful way to change the subject -- rather than try and force it through.

I used to feel a certain obligation to the person I was talking to; to finish what I started to say rather than just leave them dangling. But I was informed (you know, by a couple more trips out to the freaking wood shed!) , that is exactly what is meant by "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me". If I obey someone else's wish rather than obeying my God, then I have violated this commandment. IOW, the sin of idolatry is to accept some other law as higher than the voice of God. As I used to be easily manipulated by other people, this was a tough lesson for me to learn. But even so, I can't say that God ever took it personaly whenever I messed up on this. He picked the time when He wanted to deal with this problem, and didn't let up on me until I learned the lesson.

This is where so many Christians blow it, btw. They obey their interpretation of the Bible, or the traditions of their Church, rather than the spoken commands of the living God of Christianity. And, by doing so, they suffer the wrath of God.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with him.

Thankyou Morr. But really, the good experiences far outweigh the bad. :) This thread is about "Enemy Gods"; and it seems like some of my experiences are as close as anyone posting here so far can get! In actuality though, I wouldn't trade my life of following God for anything. And... He has offered to let me go if I chose to leave Him. I'm still not too sure how valid that offer is... but as I don't believe in a literal hell anymore like I used to, I don't suppose it would be quite as bad as that if I took Him up on the offer. I keep finding though that when I consider the possibilities of a life (and afterlife) outside of His will, my first inclination is always to rely on His wisdom to guide me through and protect me.

I guess there are just certain benefits to being a part of the Kingdom of Heaven that I've grown acustomed to having, and would be lost in life without. And sure, there are some rules that God seems to be a bit anal about, but overall the benefits far outweigh the sacrifices.

:)

[mucgwyrt]

i don't know, i definitely don't like the establishment known as "the church". but this one time my mom asked me to drop off some flowers at her church for her, since i was going into town anyway. this was the same church i used to suffer myself to be dragged to, and a good number of the people knew me, at least by sight. yet when i went in there, with no intentions other than dropping off the (*^*&^(*^ flowers, i "heard" voices saying, "witch! witch!" i was the only person in the building as it was a saturday. i don't know how that could be the energy of just the parishioners. i mean, how could they possibly know that? i hadn't even told my mom yet at that point!
wow, creepy!

[Morr]

The Cohen?


Yup, im from the Cohen Clan.

[Pure Ahimsa]

Yup, im from the Cohen Clan.

Hehe. Their are a lot of Cohens around here, Metro Detroit, two really great friends of mine being of the Cohen.
I am an Israelite.

[Tobias]

i don't know, i definitely don't like the establishment known as "the church". but this one time my mom asked me to drop off some flowers at her church for her, since i was going into town anyway. this was the same church i used to suffer myself to be dragged to, and a good number of the people knew me, at least by sight. yet when i went in there, with no intentions other than dropping off the (*^*&^(*^ flowers, i "heard" voices saying, "witch! witch!" i was the only person in the building as it was a saturday. i don't know how that could be the energy of just the parishioners. i mean, how could they possibly know that? i hadn't even told my mom yet at that point!

What kind of church was this, if you don't mind my asking?

In the church where I was involved in exorcisms and other spiritual workings, we were fully aware that there was an angelic being assigned the to the church to oversee it's protection and well being. We called it the church angel... I imagine it wasn't working alone but had quite a few others working with it (judging by how many hang around here at my house to protect just me and my family).

When it comes to spiritual matters, we humans tend to get creeped out quite quickly when we run across something unfamilliar. (i.e. -- most of the "spiritual warefare" we did in the church, wrecking havoc in the spirit realm to the spirits unlucky enough to be sensed by some of us... :) )

I've found that many spirits (of various sorts), are quite interested in the fact that a human such as myself can sense and hear them. What I'm thinking, is that these church guardians were merely acnowlaging your presence (and the fact that you are a witch). Perhaps too, they were well aware of any potentual damage you could do to the religious system they are working through, and preparing to take whatever means nessesary to defend it.

I've learned the lesson myself to leave well enough alone. If for some reason I sense a spirit that is willing to defend it's "turf", then by all means I let it know I have no intentions to harm. This has opened my eyes to so much more in the spirit realm, as "they" are trusting me more and more that I'm not going to harm them. It probably helps too that I'm no longer associating with people who tend to believe that everything out there is "evil".

I guess I never really did make a "good" exorcist, as I always heald back and waited for confirmation from my Guide/God before jumping in. I'm especially grateful for this now that I realize that not everything out there is after us, and most of it is best left alone. God can only be trusted to defend you too if it was actually Him that sent you into battle. If you go out on your own... well... you really are on your own.

[banondraig]

What kind of church was this, if you don't mind my asking?

United Methodist, very middle of the road, non-mystical. although i had a similar experience in Ireland, when i peeked into an old graveyard belonging to a ruined monastery. there were no voices that time, just a very strong sense that i was not welcome, so i promptly left.

In the church where I was involved in exorcisms and other spiritual workings, we were fully aware that there was an angelic being assigned the to the church to oversee it's protection and well being. We called it the church angel... I imagine it wasn't working alone but had quite a few others working with it (judging by how many hang around here at my house to protect just me and my family).

When it comes to spiritual matters, we humans tend to get creeped out quite quickly when we run across something unfamilliar. (i.e. -- most of the "spiritual warefare" we did in the church, wrecking havoc in the spirit realm to the spirits unlucky enough to be sensed by some of us... :) )

I've found that many spirits (of various sorts), are quite interested in the fact that a human such as myself can sense and hear them. What I'm thinking, is that these church guardians were merely acnowlaging your presence (and the fact that you are a witch). Perhaps too, they were well aware of any potentual damage you could do to the religious system they are working through, and preparing to take whatever means nessesary to defend it.


that's an interesting theory. the flowers were to go in the main worship area, perhaps he/she/it/they were afraid i intended to do some form of mischief in there.

I've learned the lesson myself to leave well enough alone. If for some reason I sense a spirit that is willing to defend it's "turf", then by all means I let it know I have no intentions to harm. This has opened my eyes to so much more in the spirit realm, as "they" are trusting me more and more that I'm not going to harm them. It probably helps too that I'm no longer associating with people who tend to believe that everything out there is "evil".

I guess I never really did make a "good" exorcist, as I always heald back and waited for confirmation from my Guide/God before jumping in. I'm especially grateful for this now that I realize that not everything out there is after us, and most of it is best left alone. God can only be trusted to defend you too if it was actually Him that sent you into battle. If you go out on your own... well... you really are on your own.

yes, that applies to everything, really, doesn't it? :)

[argento_occhi]

i've always been uncomfortable in churches ever since i was a kid, but i never really had the 'get out' feeling til christmas eve last year. i don't feel like retelling the details suffice to say i heard a female presence telling me 'i don't want you to go to church anymore'. i've been pagan for 4 years now, but i would go to church every now and then, like at Christmas and Easter, you know, for the family and stuff. But this is the first time i've ever been spoken to by a deity. I'm still not sure exactly who it was, but i think it was either Aset or the Virgin Mary. She wasn't malicious or angry, but strangely kind and sad, in a way. She meant me no harm, at the very least. But, it was an experience i needed to finally let go of my Christian path for good. Or at least, for the time being. Freaked me out no end. And i was at the Anglican cathedral in Perth for midnight mass with my mum. Of course i didn't tell her about that because i knew she wouldn't believe me. but still, i had a lot to ponder on the way home. yep, that ws one christmas i'll never forget. Took me another 2 and a half hours to go to sleep once we got home. Not that i have anything against the Christian god, he's just not for me, or i'm not for him, or something like that.

bright blessings,
argent

[Tobias]

Not that i have anything against the Christian god, he's just not for me, or i'm not for him, or something like that.


I don't take any offence at this; nor can I imagine the God I know having a problem with it either. I don't really believe that God exists in the form of what the Christian religion describes him as anyway.

According to my latest theory... I think that there is a race of beings we know of as the "gods". Most likely though, I believe that they have lived human lives like the rest of us, and know what it is to conquer the trials nessesary for spiritual development.

These divine beings join forces and work together to help those of us willing enough to accept their aid. They come to us in the form of the religion and diety that best suits our needs, and perhaps their gender and personality. The ones who have been working in my life have been spearheaded by one I've known as the Voice of God. He has been the only one who's been able to talk to me directly in the past.

Recently, with my newly acuired acceptance of this theory, I'm realizing there are others who also are assisting in my progress. A goddess of Wisdom has revealed her presence, and reminded me of how she's helped me in the past. She first showed up as Athena, but... THEY seem to be the ones pushing this theory on me, and she quickly dropped the Greek goddess "face"...


What I'm trying to get to... is the supposed battle between the gods. As I believe that they mostly all have the same goals in mind, I highly doubt they do any kind of war between themselves.

They do however, use different methods and myths to accomplish this goal. For that reason, it is only apparent how nessisary it is to keep some of the division lines up from one religion to the next. Though the path of the witch, and the path of the Christian may both be leading towards a common goal, there is real danger of harm along the way if the two are improperly mixed. [Or, if the human followers of each path are thrown into the same room and start battling it out...]

Otoh, mabey the gods really do disagree with each other as to how to best help us. It does makes me feel good to know that, even in the afterlife, and even after aquiring the skills to assist in the spiritual upbringing of others, we can still retain our individuality. The gods apparently still maintain their gender, and each have their own personality.

Another thought too... what about those creatures, of the same race and abilities as the gods, that have no interest in helping us? Do the gods do battle on our behalf, much like earthly parents guard and protect their young? If the afterlife/spirit realm is anything like the physical world we know -- with all it's variety of people and motivations -- I can only imagine Them having it out every now and then.

[David19]

The deities that don't like each other...I emidiately think of Pele and Her sister. If I remember correctly, Pele is the Hawiian volcano goddess and her sister (the water, I think) really dislike. I remember reading that you can see their battle when the lava flows into the ocean.

Osiris and Seth are probably not the best of friends either. I couldn't imagine Lillith working well with any male deity, or with any male period, which is why I don't want anything to do with her.

I have never invoked any deities that have been in conflict. I would think it's a bad idea, but you never know until you try....but I don't think I'll do that anytime soon.

Anubis RainHawk

On this Jewish Pagan group that i'm on, one woman said Lilith isn't 'evil' per se, but more like a really, strong, independent woman (or god actually), she has sex for sex's sake (not for fertility, not for anything else but to satisfy her needs, her desires, etc).

She'll go for what she wants and stands up for what she wants (and will stand up to anyone, IMO, she even stood up to Yahweh ;)).

That's how i've always seen her anyway, i like Lilith, i think she's a really
interesting deity and i like learning about her (there are several books that i'm adding to my long list of books i want, which are on Lilith in Jewish 'mythology' and folklore (e.g. Liliths Cave, for instance, etc).

The woman also said she'd be good for abortions (to get rid of kids), but also someone else mentioned she may take kids away from abusive homes/people.

I always think of her as doing what she wants, like, right now apparantly, she's paired up with Azazel or Samuel (in Judaism anyway), and i see her as not being a 'wife' (or at least a typical wife figure) but more she's going after what or who she wants (i think she's also been with Yahweh too, makes you think as Yahweh seems to get around too, since he's been paired with Canaanite deities, Hebrew deities, i think an Kemetic deity, and possibly Sumerian too ;)).

I think i've had one experience with Lilith, it was when i was having some personal issues, and i really needed someone, and i'm sure it was Lilith that i felt help me, (although, i should add i don't see her as a mother goddess like some neo-pagans).

But, as for the rest of the thread, i think deities do have enemies (e.g. Yahweh and Azazel appear to be enemies, some of the Greek gods have enemies (can't remember who and which ones aside from the Titans and a group of giants, i think), the Aztec gods have conflicts within their own pantheon (so i don't know how they'd get on with other gods), Set and Horus may not get on, I think people have mentioned the Norse gods and the Jotun (although aren't there some Jotun who are allies of the Aesir and/or Vanir?), etc).

To me, i think you should learn about the potential enemies of a god your interested in, so you don't make the mistake on calling on them together (and also to know who your gods enemies are, etc), it also might make you rethink some things (e.g. the enemy of your god may decide to do something to you 'cause your a servant/follower of their enemy (hope that made some sense :)), etc).

Anyway, great thread, BTW, and there were some great threads.

I'm like Semjaza, i love resurrecting threads! ;).