Hellenist Reconstructionists

[Protagonist]

Are there any other Hellenistic Reconstructionists/Hellenists/Followers of Hellenismos around?

[SacredWithin]

Does anyone know where I can get info on Hellenism from an authentic Hellenistic source? (I figured our questions could go together)

[Aidron]

Are there any other Hellenistic Reconstructionists/Hellenists/Followers of Hellenismos around?


I am, though I would not classify myself as a hardcore reconstructionist or even a reconstructionist at all, but rather that I have reconstructionist tendencies.

[Aidron]

Does anyone know where I can get info on Hellenism from an authentic Hellenistic source? (I figured our questions could go together)


http://66.90.77.92/index.htm

Good resource for information on gods, spirits and monsters (as the title states).

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/

A bit more extensive in some areas with less overall information than the above.

http://www.loggia.com/myth/index.html

Not a shabby site either.

[Sage Rainsong]

try these places, I was looking into hellenism a while back, it seems interesting:

http://www.sponde.com/ This is more of a place to learn how to practice it without a lot of tools.

http://paganwiccan.about.com/library/weekly/uc031303hellenismos.htm basic intro

http://www.geocities.com/greekreligiongr/hellenismos.html

http://www.branwenscauldron.com/resources/hellenismos.html List of hellinism websites but not all the liks work.


http://www.pacificnet.net/~spectre/Temple/docks.html Reallly really cool website of an onlie temple to Hecate. There is even this interesting greek letter divination area.

good luck

[SacredWithin]

Thank you, I'll check into the info. Was it difficult for either of you to find it when you initially desired to do so?

[Crimsonjen]

I'm one! I'm not so much recon as Hellenismos. My favourite place for Hellenes is the Hellenismos yahoo group. I still identify as Wiccan but I also identify as Hellene. Perhaps one day I will have completed my shift and no longer identify as Wiccan. Not yet. :)

I am performing a Hellenic festival for my local eclectic witchy group for Imbolc based on a festival of Apollo and the returning light. We are going to do ritual, feast on ancient greek foods, drink, make ancient greek toasts, sing, watch a mystery play, and generally party into the night. It's going to be a blast.

[AntiNorrellite]

While I'm not a Helene, it was something that I looked into for some time. The websites posted in the above posts are great, but I'd like to add a few that I found particularly informative:
www.templeofdemeter.com - The info on Demeter and Rhea Cybele is really interesting. The "Voices from the Temple" section has some interesting insights.
http://www.winterscapes.com/sannion/ - Loads of unique articles. A favorite. :)

I am performing a Hellenic festival for my local eclectic witchy group for Imbolc based on a festival of Apollo and the returning light. We are going to do ritual, feast on ancient greek foods, drink, make ancient greek toasts, sing, watch a mystery play, and generally party into the night. It's going to be a blast.
Sounds like a great time!

[Incendia]

Here's another site: http://kyrene.4t.com/. Check out the section with links to virtual temples.

Blessings,
Incendia

[Djinn]

Do Hellenic Recons have to know Greek?

(This is not a sarcastic question...I have no Greek but am interested in Hellenism.)

[Pol]

Wow..talk about falling into place. I was just coming online to do some studying on this exact subject as I myself am very quickly falling toward Hellenic polytheism. And lo! and behold!
Someone bumped a thread from May.

It's a sign or something. ;)

[Crimsonjen]

I hope the folks at www.hellenion.org don't mind if I happen to wish to make the comment that this list of books they recommend for study is excellent. some of these are going to be tough to get through with the way of writing in ancient times but well worth the effort I believe. I just cant' wait until Drew Campbells Old Stones, New temples update comes out.

If there's any problems with the posting then take it down.

Burkert, Greek Religion (ISBN 0674362810)
Garland, Greek Way of Life (0801480280)
Garland, Greek Way of Death (0801495288)
Campbell, Old Stones, New Temples (0738832014)
Mikalson, Athenian Popular Religion (0807841943)
Homer, The Iliad or The Odyssey (many translations; Lattimore or Fagles recommended)
Hesiod, Works & Days and Theogony (many translations, Evelyn-White recommended [Loeb #57])
Homeric Hymns (many editions, Evelyn-White recommended [Loeb #57])
"Priests and Power in Classical Athens" in: Pagan Priests, ed. Beard & North (If you cannot secure a copy of this book, the Clergy Education Director can provide a photocopy of the article.)
Kerenyi, The Gods of the Greeks and The Heroes of the Greeks (any other standard survey of mythology may be substituted)
Adkins & Adkins, Handbook to Life in Ancient Greece (019512491X)
Solon's Precepts and Maxims of the Seven Sages

(2) Additional Reading Texts (recommended but not required)

Athanassakis, trans., Orphic Hymns
Rice & Stambaugh, eds., Sources for the Study of Greek Religion
Zaidman & Pantel, Religion in the Ancient Greek City
Gantz, Early Greek Myth (2 vols.)
Parke, Festivals of the Athenians
Parker, Miasma: Pollution and Purification in Early Greek Religion
Pulleyn, Prayer in Greek Religion
Burkert, Homo Necans
Graf, Greek Mythology: An Introduction (0801853958)
Homer,The Iliad or The Odyssey (whichever was not read as "required")
Martin, Ancient Greece (any standard survey of ancient Greek history may be substituted)
Dover, Greek Popular Morality in the Time of Plato and Aristotle (0872202453)
Georg Luck, Arcana Mundi: Magic and Occult in the Greek and Roman Worlds (0801825482)
Faraone & Obbink, Magika Hiera: Ancient Greek Magic & Religion (0195111400)
Kieren Barry, The Greek Qabalah: Alphabetic Mysticism and Numerology in the Ancient World (1578631106)
Aristotle, Nichomachean Ethics
Aristotle, Oeconomica and Magna Moralia (ISBN 0-674-99317-9)

(3) General Reference, Academic Protocol, Other Resources

Penguin Dictionary of Religions or other multifaith theological dictionary
The Oxford Classical Dictionary (3rd ed.)
Liddell & Scott, Greek-English Lexicon (abridged editions OK)
Any introductory classical Greek textbook (be sure to choose one that teaches Attic, not Koine)
Brunschwig et al., eds., Greek Thought : A Guide to Classical Knowledge
Wayne C. Booth, et al., The Craft of Research
Adler & Van Doren, How to Read a Book
Kennedy & Charles, On Becoming a Counselor (not a textbook for psychotherapists, but rather a guide for "para-counselors," i.e., those who offer limited counseling in the course of other work; emphasizes the importance of knowing the limits of your profession's scope and determining when to refer to medical professionals)
Richo, How to Be an Adult (reality checks for what constitutes sane, adult behavior)
(4) Other Recommendations (titles recommended by members of the Clergy Education Curriculum Development Committee)

General Note: Candidates are encouraged to read as widely as possible in ancient Greek literature. Most texts are available online at Project Gutenberg or the Perseus Project, the latter of which includes the original Greek.

Aesop, Fables (recommended by Pyrokanthos)
Eliade, A History of Religious Ideas (3 vols.) (recommended by Peter Gold)
Chuvin, A Chronicle of the Last Pagans (recommended by Peter Gold)
Gregory and Suzanne M. Wolfe, Circle of Grace: Praying with-and for- Your Children (recommended by Drew Campbell)
Fritz Graf, Magic in the Ancient World (recommended by Dennis Dutton)
Sarah Iles Johnston, Restless Dead (recommended by Dennis Dutton)
Christopher Faraone, Ancient Greek Love Magic (recommended by Dennis Dutton)
Betz, The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation (recommended by Drew Campbell)
Greek Elegiac Poetry (ISBN 0-674-99582-1) (recommended by Dennis Dutton)
Xenophon, Oeconomicus (ISBN 0-674-99186-9) (recommended by Dennis Dutton)
Apollonius of Rhodes, The Argonautica (recommended by Pyrokanthos)
Jon Mikalson, Honor Thy Gods (recommended by Drew Campbell)

[Theres]

hmmmm...

well, i have to add a couple of required texts that weren't on the above list (or perhaps i just overlooked them), in no particular order...

'A History of Greek Religion' by Martin P. Nilsson (1925, 1952)

'The Greeks and Their Gods' by W.K.C Guthrie (1950)

'The Religion of Ancient Greece' by Thaddeus Zielinski (1926)

'The Cults of the Greek States (Vols 1-5)' by L.R Farnell (1896)

'Structure and History in Greek Mythology and Ritual' by Walter Burkert (1979)

'Studies in Ancient Greek Society' by George Thomson (1965)

some of these books are a bit dated archeologically, but they document the evolution of our understanding the ancient Greek mindset in a way that is imperative to our understanding of their religion (imo).

[morningstar2651]

Does anyone know where I can get info on Hellenism from an authentic Hellenistic source? (I figured our questions could go together)There is a nice bit of information at Wargoddess.net (http://www.wargoddess.net/greek/index.php); not much about practice though.

I've started reading Greek Religion (http://www.mysticwicks.com/shop/shop.php?c=Books&n=1000&i=0674362810&x=Greek_Religion), and it is good.

Last, but not least, Greek sacred texts (http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/index.htm#greek).

[ObsessedFae86]

Maybe this will seem dumb..But this is a GREAT site for anyone interested in the Greek pantheon or anything about the mythology.

http://www.wingedsandals.com

Its too cute and has lots of craft ideas for kids especially! I really enjoy visiting this site!

[Vincent Verthaine]

Are there any other Hellenistic Reconstructionists/Hellenists/Followers of Hellenismos around?

Finally,I get a chance to ask this question.

Are we Erisians/Discordians considered Hellenic.
(Eris was a Greek goddess).
I know that we aren;t reconstructionists,because there was no active Eris worship in Classical Greek times( or was there?).
Do we actually have to be Greek to be considered a Hellenic worshipper?

[ObsessedFae86]

IMO You do not have to be Greek..but I think many people would say that yes you should be Greek since you are basically doing as the Greeks did..I don't think so though..I think as long as you know your history, myths, and deities and how they all correspond to each other..And I mean know all of your information good..reliable sources..the whole 9..you are good.

As for the first question..I don't think Erisians/Discordians would be considered Reconstructionsists but why not Hellenic? IMO..You would be considered Hellenic because Eris was a Greek deity. But hopefully a more knowledgeable Hellenic Recon will reply lol.

[Vincent Verthaine]

IMO You do not have to be Greek..but I think many people would say that yes you should be Greek since you are basically doing as the Greeks did..I don't think so though..I think as long as you know your history, myths, and deities and how they all correspond to each other..And I mean know all of your information good..reliable sources..the whole 9..you are good.

As for the first question..I don't think Erisians/Discordians would be considered Reconstructionsists but why not Hellenic? IMO..You would be considered Hellenic because Eris was a Greek deity. But hopefully a more knowledgeable Hellenic Recon will reply lol.
Thank you for your honesty.
Here is another question.Are we required to believe in the way the ancients belive,or are we allowed to discover new myths, and even brand new gods.
Some discordians view Eris as just another chick in a toga.Still carrying that apple around
Others,like myself,have modernized her.Given her a more contempory look.
Something in leather and vinyl.
Do the followers of the other Greek Gods do the same.
Zeus in a Business suit.Hermes as a skate punk.
Or would that be blasphemous.

What have the old gang been doing since the end of the Greco-Roman Era(according to the Principia Discordia,Eris contemplated for 3125 years before appearing to Kerry Thornley and Greg Hill).
Any new adventures.
Any problems with the Titans.
Any good gossip.

Actually that would make a pretty cool t.v. show.
Hercules in the modern age.Kicking ass and solving crime.
But I digress.

[ObsessedFae86]

Ok let me tackle your questions to the best of my knowledge. I think that Hellenic Reconstructionists do modernize. I mean its almost a must. You can't really do EVERYTHING that the Ancient Grecians did..Gotta get up to date. So that being said..I'm sure there are people who see Hermes as a skate punk.

Here's a link that really describes the Reconstructionists well. It answered alot of my questions when I was wondering.

http://www.pagan.net.nz/hellenism.html

Check out www.wingedsandals.com That's a good view of how modern things have gotten. Persephone(Queen of the Underworld) is a goth there. Hope I helped.

[morningstar2651]

Is everyone who worships the Greek gods today a reconstructionist?

No. Some members of neopagan religions such as Wicca also worship our gods, although their views of Them are often at variance with traditional Hellenic understanding.

Where does the term "Hellenismos" come from?

Hellenismos was the Greek term used by the Roman Emperor Julian—one of the first figures to attempt to revive the religion after the advent of Christianity—to refer to the traditional religion of the Greeks and all those who embraced their religious culture. It is in this religious, inclusive sense that we reclaim and use the word today. (The word also has other unrelated meanings in modern Greek.)

These quotes seem point to Erisians & Discordians not being Hellenistic.

[Aidron]

IMO You do not have to be Greek..but I think many people would say that yes you should be Greek since you are basically doing as the Greeks did..I don't think so though..I think as long as you know your history, myths, and deities and how they all correspond to each other..And I mean know all of your information good..reliable sources..the whole 9..you are good.

In reality, most westerners likely have Greek blood in them. If only for Alexander alone, who amassed a great empire and spread the Greek culture and people out far and wide (as well as absorbing things and people that he came upon) this factor along can show that if traced back far enough, most westerners and even those who are not, likely have Greek blood in their family tree.

[Vincent Verthaine]

In reality, most westerners likely have Greek blood in them. If only for Alexander alone, who amassed a great empire and spread the Greek culture and people out far and wide (as well as absorbing things and people that he came upon) this factor along can show that if traced back far enough, most westerners and even those who are not, likely have Greek blood in their family tree.

This same question caused a firestorm on a certian Discordian forum I belong to.
According to the website ObsessedFae86 provided frpm Pagan Net NZ.:
[quote]
" Hellenic Reconstructionists base their theological beliefs and ritual practices on three sources:

(1) the works of Homer, Hesiod, and other ancient writers;
(2) mainstream scholarly research on ancient religion;
(3) individual spiritual experience and intuition ("personal gnosis"). "

1-Homer,Hesiod,Aristotle all wrote on Eris.
2-Discordians have been pouring over the "Ancients"
trying to understand how They worshipped her.
Do you know that she was considered a "Goddess of the Marketplace".
(merchents would call on her to bring them customers,and get rid of the competition)
3-Since records on Eris is scarce,thats all we can do.

There is a general consensus amongst Erisiains that technically we aren't reconstructing,but creating something new.
But we can't agree on whether we are "hellenic" or not.
Hey,it isn't our fault that Eris waited 3125 years after the Greco_Romanera to decide she wanted in on the action.What do you expect from the Goddess of Chaos?

But are we "Hellenic"
There are those of us who believe "Why bother.They Snnubbed Eris the First Time,they snub us discordians every chance they get.Many of us feel that discordianism is being treated like the "red-headed stepchild".
THey don't want us,and we don't need them

Other's (like myself) feel that since Eris was of Greek(actually,Eris predated the Olympians) origin,we have just as much right to claim the term "Hellenic" as our own,as any follower of Zeus,Artemis,etc.

The other website was from a New Zealand cartoon.
But Eris isn't part of the cast.
I guess she got a better offer from "The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy".

What I want to ask is how the Hellenics here feel about it.

[Aidron]

This same question caused a firestorm on a certian Discordian forum I belong to.
According to the website ObsessedFae86 provided frpm Pagan Net NZ.:

" Hellenic Reconstructionists base their theological beliefs and ritual practices on three sources:

(1) the works of Homer, Hesiod, and other ancient writers;
(2) mainstream scholarly research on ancient religion;
(3) individual spiritual experience and intuition ("personal gnosis"). "

1-Homer,Hesiod,Aristotle all wrote on Eris.
2-Discordians have been pouring over the "Ancients"
trying to understand how They worshipped her.
Do you know that she was considered a "Goddess of the Marketplace".
(merchents would call on her to bring them customers,and get rid of the competition)
3-Since records on Eris is scarce,thats all we can do.

There is a general consensus amongst Erisiains that technically we aren't reconstructing,but creating something new.
But we can't agree on whether we are "hellenic" or not.
Hey,it isn't our fault that Eris waited 3125 years after the Greco_Romanera to decide she wanted in on the action.What do you expect from the Goddess of Chaos?

But are we "Hellenic"
There are those of us who believe "Why bother.They Snnubbed Eris the First Time,they snub us discordians every chance they get.Many of us feel that discordianism is being treated like the "red-headed stepchild".
THey don't want us,and we don't need them

Other's (like myself) feel that since Eris was of Greek(actually,Eris predated the Olympians) origin,we have just as much right to claim the term "Hellenic" as our own,as any follower of Zeus,Artemis,etc.

The other website was from a New Zealand cartoon.
But Eris isn't part of the cast.
I guess she got a better offer from "The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy".

What I want to ask is how the Hellenics here feel about it.

Why ask them what they feel? Eris, pre-dating the Hellenistic deities or not, is known to modern culture through the Hellenic culture. If factual proof can be shown that she existed before the time of the Hellenes, then a more suitable title may called for. Until then, she is known as a Hellenic goddess.

As to her faithful, it depends on whether or not their beliefs conform to Hellenistic beliefs. Since Hellenic culture is the basis for most of western culture, there is such a vast array left that can be thoroughly researched. If her faithful, whether individually or as a group, hold beliefs which do not conform to Hellenic beliefs, then they aren't Hellenics, but merely the faithful of Eris. Being Hellenic in faith is about much more than simply worshiping the Hellenistic gods. There are many who worship them whose beliefs conform to other faiths, such as Wicca, and they are not Hellenic. They are Wiccans who worship Hellenic gods.

[ObsessedFae86]

Off topic being discussed but here goes:
Any of you know about the Ancient Greek Festivals and how they celebrated them? Do you celebrate them now? How do you "modernize" them?

[Athena-Nadine]

Finally,I get a chance to ask this question.

Are we Erisians/Discordians considered Hellenic.

No, you are not Hellenic. Or rather, not necessarily There is way more to being an Hellene than just following the Greek gods (or His/Her archetype). It is a way of life, culturally, ethically, and religiously.

(Eris was a Greek goddess).

No, She is a Greek goddess. ;) :p

I know that we aren;t reconstructionists,because there was no active Eris worship in Classical Greek times( or was there?).

Not that I know of, but I certainly don't know everything, though I've been an Hellene most of my life. I still wouldn't consider any of you Recons, though, because to be so you would ahve to be consciously attempting to reconstruct the traditional practices, and from what little I know of Erisians/Discordians, that would actually go against your beliefs. :)

Do we actually have to be Greek to be considered a Hellenic worshipper?

Very few Hellenes would tell you that you need to be Greek. Being an Hellene is aq spiritual and cultural thing, not a racial thing. It always has been. Historically, the Greeks were always accepting of "outsiders" who lived by the same ethical precepts. The Romans were also considered Hellenic in their time.

Not only does one not have to be Greek to be considered Hellenic, but you don't even have to necessarily believe in the gods Themselves. Hellenismos--the actual name of the religion (if you practice Hellenismos you are a Recon)--is a religion of orthopraxy (right practice) as opposed to orthodoxy (right belief), meaning the act of paying respect to the gods is more important than whether you actually believe in Them or not.

There have been plenty of philosphers who questioned or outright denyed the gods' existence and no one batted an eye in their doing so as they were still part of the rituals and practices necessary to their culture and community.

Here is a link to a brief description of the ethics of an Hellene:

http://www.ecauldron.com/greekethics.php

It makes no difference if you are a polytheist, a henotheist, a monotheist, an atheist, or an agnostic. Ultimately, it is your actions that make you an Hellene.

I hope that all made sense. I just came across this thread and was posting in a bit of a hurry.

[Cain]

I'd say Discordians were not Recons for the simple reason that they are not trying to revive the worship of Eris, just changing and updating it (which makes sense when you look at who is being worshipped). Also, very few Greeks did worship Eris, even Ares was mostly shunned except for in Thrace and among those tribes so you can imagine how Eris was felt about. Finally, I have only managed to locate two shrines that ever existed, and they were both for Enyo, whom Homer doesnt distinguish from Eris but later writers do.

That said, I do find some curious paralles between the ancient and modern worship.

Question; is there much use of other works than Homer and Hesiod? I'm a Classics student myself (my minor, though 2/3 of this year is devoted to it) and I was wondering about the use of later poems and traditions, in particular Callimachus' hymns and Apollnius of Rhodes' Argonautika. I found the Hellenistic ideas interesting, but a marked difference from earlier works.

[Athena-Nadine]

Question; is there much use of other works than Homer and Hesiod? I'm a Classics student myself (my minor, though 2/3 of this year is devoted to it) and I was wondering about the use of later poems and traditions, in particular Callimachus' hymns and Apollnius of Rhodes' Argonautika. I found the Hellenistic ideas interesting, but a marked difference from earlier works.

On of the things that seems to separate Hellenic Reconstructionists from many other Recons is that there is so much more information available. Hellenismos isn't restricted to one specific era or culture (while there were basic similarities through the various city-states, there were definite differences as well, such as the different festival calendars). Some people focus on the Bronze Age--some are even trying to revive the Minoan period, but I think that may be a separate religion, really--some focus specifically on the Mycenaean Period, some on the Iron Age, the Archaic Period, the Classical Period, or the Hellenistic Period. Then there are those who are part of Religio Romana--while they can also be considered Hellenics in their own right, are of a different religion altogether, with different gods.

[ObsessedFae86]

This may be a little off topic but I hope I'm posting it in the right spot. There are some of us who are Hellenic Wiccan. I am one of those. A problem arises with the sabbats and how to celebrate them since they are mainly Celtic. I think I may have found a nice little solution :)
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/SF/SF.html

[Crimsonjen]

This may be a little off topic but I hope I'm posting it in the right spot. There are some of us who are Hellenic Wiccan. I am one of those. A problem arises with the sabbats and how to celebrate them since they are mainly Celtic. I think I may have found a nice little solution :)
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/SF/SF.html

That site is nice and I'm sure it helps out a Hellenic Wiccan but all it seems that they have done was broken down the description of the Athenian festival calendar according to when the festivals occur. they used the Sabbat cycles as the marker for which festivals were divided but ultimately, it's not a blending at all. Not to mention, the Athenian calendar is only the most widely recorded and known calendar but every city had it's own calendar. Granted, a planting festival will happen in most regions and mostly the same time.

I have no personal knowledge of this but a member of Nroogd spoke to me about how they connected Graves' "White Goddess" myth of diana to the Celtic cycles as their primary ritual year basis.

[David19]

I've been interested in Hellenic Reconstructionism (especially after reading this book on Classical Mythology) but i have some questions, do you view each god as being an individual being (like Zeus, Apollo, Athene, Hecate, Yahweh, etc) and also is magic a part of the belief system (or more specifically, are there any rules prohibiting it).

Thanks.

[Theres]

There are some of us who are Hellenic Wiccan. I am one of those. A problem arises with the sabbats and how to celebrate them since they are mainly Celtic.

some things just don't fit, no matter how hard you try to force them.

[Crimsonjen]

I've been interested in Hellenic Reconstructionism (especially after reading this book on Classical Mythology) but i have some questions, do you view each god as being an individual being (like Zeus, Apollo, Athene, Hecate, Yahweh, etc) and also is magic a part of the belief system (or more specifically, are there any rules prohibiting it).

Thanks.

It's not absolute but I'v enoticed that the majority of the Hellenic Recons tend towards the Hard Polytheist viewpoint. Meaning just that, the Gods are all individuals and not just facets of some great 'all'. It's not absolute though and there is room for other viewpoints.

Some believe that magic has no place while there are lots of ways that magic could be done. Many times offerings were left in temples to request intervention by the god(s). I'd suggest that you explore further and I think you'll find that it's either your thing or it doesn't quite fit. there's never any time wasted in learning whether you follow that path or not.

[Theres]

It's not absolute but I'v enoticed that the majority of the Hellenic Recons tend towards the Hard Polytheist viewpoint. Meaning just that, the Gods are all individuals and not just facets of some great 'all'. It's not absolute though and there is room for other viewpoints.

correct, although the ancient Greeks did recognize an unconscious and undefinable 'power' that animated all things, including the gods (some writers even include Gaia and Kaos in this).

Some believe that magic has no place while there are lots of ways that magic could be done. Many times offerings were left in temples to request intervention by the god(s).

right again.
generally theurgic magic was acceptable... that is, magic worked through the gods via prayer, offerings, sacrifice, etc.
however 'witchcraft' per se was frowned upon in most quarters, as is evident in writings which warn against dealing with the women of Thessaly (don't ask me for a source right now, as i'm sick and can't be bothered finding them).

also, Hellenic refers to the Greek world in the historical era in general (circa 800 BCE on), while Hellenistic refers more specifically to the post Alexander III era (323 BCE on). it is my belief that this latter era is the one most recons work with, as there is so much more material to reconstruct from.
but i should qualify all this by saying that i am not a reconstructionist, just someone dedicated to studying ancient Greek religion.

[David19]

Does anyone know of any good books on Hellenic Reconstructionism, or the Ancient Greek religion?

[Theres]

(*damn, i had this all typed out and lost it!*)

here's a list of good material for ya. much of it is great, some only okay, but all of it has something to offer. ready?

in no particular order (but a * for the really good ones)...

Martin Nilsson; A History of Greek Religion (this one is invaluable, but try to find the 1952 revision)*
Martin Nilsson; The Mycenaean Origins of Greek Mythology*
Martin Nilsson; Greek Piety (although i don't actually have this on, but anything by him is very good)

L.R Farnell; The Cults of the Greek City States (this is a 5 volume set)*
L.R Farnell; The Evolution of Religion

W.K.C Guthrie; The Greeks and Their Gods

Walter Burkert; Structure and History in Greek Mythology and Ritual*
Walter Burkert; Ancient Mystery Cults

Dudley Wright; The Eleusinian Mysteries and Rites*

Thaddeus Zielinski; The Religion of Ancient Greece

and on Greek civilization in general...

Chester G. Starr; The Origins of Greek Civilization 1100 - 650 BC*
Chester G. Starr; The Ancient Greeks

George Thompson; Studies in Ancient Greek Society

F.W Walbank; The Hellinistic World

and then there are the classics, many of which you can find online.
you HAVE to have Homer (Illiad and Odyssey) and Hesiod (Theogony and Works and Days). and you'll want to check out Aristophanes, the Homeric poems (not actually by Homer), the Orphic Hymns, Herodotus (with a grain of salt), etc, etc, etc.

of course there are MANY more. these were just some of the ones on my shelf, and i'm sure someone will come along and add a few more. but i think you have enough to get you started! ;)

[Theres]

your welcome... :goodgrief

[David19]

(*damn, i had this all typed out and lost it!*)

here's a list of good material for ya. much of it is great, some only okay, but all of it has something to offer. ready?

in no particular order (but a * for the really good ones)...

Martin Nilsson; A History of Greek Religion (this one is invaluable, but try to find the 1952 revision)*
Martin Nilsson; The Mycenaean Origins of Greek Mythology*
Martin Nilsson; Greek Piety (although i don't actually have this on, but anything by him is very good)

L.R Farnell; The Cults of the Greek City States (this is a 5 volume set)*
L.R Farnell; The Evolution of Religion

W.K.C Guthrie; The Greeks and Their Gods

Walter Burkert; Structure and History in Greek Mythology and Ritual*
Walter Burkert; Ancient Mystery Cults

Dudley Wright; The Eleusinian Mysteries and Rites*

Thaddeus Zielinski; The Religion of Ancient Greece

and on Greek civilization in general...

Chester G. Starr; The Origins of Greek Civilization 1100 - 650 BC*
Chester G. Starr; The Ancient Greeks

George Thompson; Studies in Ancient Greek Society

F.W Walbank; The Hellinistic World

and then there are the classics, many of which you can find online.
you HAVE to have Homer (Illiad and Odyssey) and Hesiod (Theogony and Works and Days). and you'll want to check out Aristophanes, the Homeric poems (not actually by Homer), the Orphic Hymns, Herodotus (with a grain of salt), etc, etc, etc.

of course there are MANY more. these were just some of the ones on my shelf, and i'm sure someone will come along and add a few more. but i think you have enough to get you started! ;)

Been ages since i've checked this thread, those books defently look great and i'm going to try and find them (i probably can't buy them, as i don't have much money, as i'm a student).

I was reading a book on the Mysteries, do you know if there's anything been published on those?.

Thanks.

[Theres]

I was reading a book on the Mysteries, do you know if there's anything been published on those?.

(no, that's why they're called "mysteries". :lol: )

well, what mysteries are you refering to? there were as many initiatory rituals as there were mystery cults, which were many (see the 5 volumes by Farnell above).

the most famous were the rites at Eleusis, and there's a book listed above on that too.

[David19]

Thanks, just another question about the gods, like Gaia, i've got this book on classical mythology and i'm really learning a lot from it, but it says that Gaia was the earth (which i knew) but she was also a goddess in a godly/supernatural way, that was like the others (like she had likes, dislikes, a personality, etc), but i'm a bit confused about how she can be both, were there two Gaia's or can she be both in some kind of supernatural manifesting way (if that make's any sense).

Also, it says that the Ancient Greek's believed that Seer's and poets and Bard's (i'm not sure if that's the correct term) were given the ability to relate what the gods were like, which is where the myths came from, is that true, like, was it (or is it) still believe that people like Plato (i think he wrote down a lot on the gods, but i might be mistaken) were given the ability to tell people about the gods (like likes, dislikes, personality, etc).

And, finally, how was homosexuality looked upon in the Ancient Hellenic religion (and modern too), was it considered normal, since ive heard two different accounts, i thought it was looked on favourbly (since i think Apollo was gay or bi but leaned more to guys) and didn't Artimis(sp) have a big lesbian following.

Again, hope this made sense, and hope it's not too many questions :).

[eihdos]

Does anyone know of any good books on Hellenic Reconstructionism, or the Ancient Greek religion?

I've only read "Old Stones, New Temples", which is okay but not great. The revised edition might be better, but I don't know when it will be published. Ask Hellenion. There's also "Kharis" by Oenochoe, and "A Temple of Words" by Sannion.

http://www.winterscapes.com/kharis/
http://www.cafepress.com/sannion.39902679

For books about ancient Greek religion, I think the lists already posted will keep you busy for a while. ;)

[Arion]

Are there any other Hellenistic Reconstructionists/Hellenists/Followers of Hellenismos around?

me! :wave:

[seekerofknwoledge]

I'm a Hellenistic Recon!

[Twinkle]

I am. I resisted it at first...and called myself a Hellenic Pagan. But...I am a Reconstructionist.

[moonmorgan]

Just wanted to share a great article on the subject I found:
http://www.thepaganheart.com/Issues/Divisions/Mar06/Diversified01.html