alcohol?

[mcmerlin]

what r the general view on drinking? and can it be used to clear my head for meditation? this probably sounds dumb but i not seen anything on this soooo.... answer :)

whiteowl

[Myst]

Most people find it mucks up their brain too much for meditation... When we're doing rituals we never partake beforehand.. though I know sometimes when my friends are drunk they regress into a past life or start divining the future out of nowhere.... for them I guess it's relaxing. For me it's relaxing too but I've never tried doing magick in that state...

[Mairwen]

I have a strict and firm rule. If anyone in my group shows up to class or rites under the influence of drugs or alcohol, they're turned away.

[Lilu]

Alcohol really screws up my chakras, which effects the way energy flows through me, so it's a definite no for me, especially when doing magick or meditation of any kind

BB
Lilu

[Lavender]

For me, drugs & alcohol makes it hard for me to meditate. I can't seem to focus. Even cold medications makes my head too fuzzy.

[mcmerlin]

thx, that really helps, i jus wanted to clear it up. i can see how it would cloud ur mind. :)

whiteowl

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by mcmerlin
thx, that really helps, i jus wanted to clear it up. i can see how it would cloud ur mind. :)

whiteowl

Sometimes the clouded mind sees the clearest. I have experienced some truly remarkable insights when drunk, when inhibitions and judgement are temporarly suppressed or disabled.

Same for marijuana. I haven't tried many others, but I don't doubt that some of them also have merits.

- Illuminatus!

[mol]

Ive tried it both ways and have found I like to be clear of any drugs/alcohol. I dont recommend the use of the substances to anyone.

I would note that one of my greatest insights came when under the influence, but again, I prefer to NOT use any outside influence.

[Sequoia]

personally, even after half a glass of wine, I get very bubbly and giggly. . . . I don't think it's condusive to meditation or magick. It would probably harm your defences and your focus, which as you may or may not know, is a VERY bad thing, depending on what you're doing.

It's true that sometimes a person may have insight or recognise something while under the influence of something. . . but I would NOT reccomend it.

p.s. Welcome!

[Shy Hawk]

I mean if you're going for an altered state of consciousness....then sure.
Fer meditation, I wouldn't recommend it. It tends to make people sleepy as opposed to meditative. There's sort of a difference.

[slvr_phoenix]

I think it probably depends entirely on how much you drink and how you react to alcohol. For example, I find that a little bit helps me to relax without fudging up my brain at all. I would dare say it actually improves my state of mind and clarity when I'm stressed.

If I'm not stressed though, it probably wouldn't do much, if anything, for me.

However, excessive drinking causing me to become drunk would definately have a negative impact instead of a positive one.

[airmist]

Being in recovery, use of any substance for any purpose is not an option I can safely choose. So on one hand, I am really outside this discussion. But on the other, I can state that I certainly don't need substances for meditation or rituals and they would interfere both at once and permanently. Maybe a useful question for someone is whether they feel they need substances to meditate. If so, maybe that deserves a different look?

[Swanspirit]

for me ........ I prefer crytstal clarity,and my system is SO sensitive to any substance ......alcohol is a CNS ( central nervous system )depressant ....... no thanks..... I rarely if ever drink.....
I like all my receptors open....... without any added detractors......

Perhaps a list of the signs and symptoms of alcoholism would be better in another thread???
along with other addictions???
Love and Light
Swannie......

[Dria El]

Originally posted by airmist
Being in recovery, use of any substance for any purpose is not an option I can safely choose. So on one hand, I am really outside this discussion. But on the other, I can state that I certainly don't need substances for meditation or rituals and they would interfere both at once and permanently. Maybe a useful question for someone is whether they feel they need substances to meditate. If so, maybe that deserves a different look?

Welcome to Mystic Wicks airmist!!! So glad you decided to join us!

:)

[Dria El]

Originally posted by Mairwen
I have a strict and firm rule. If anyone in my group shows up to class or rites under the influence of drugs or alcohol, they're turned away.

I feel the same way.

Also, some people I know fast the day of rituals to put them in the right state of mind.

Just a thought...

[Kyrnnid Tyhn]

i agree with those who don't use it. it just f***s my brain up too much for real concentration. but that's just me!

[Illuminatus]

... is everyone so focused on concentration???

Alcohol is not good for concentration, I'll give you that much. But why is concentration so important? What ever happened to cutting loose and drinking a lot and dancing in the woods??? You guys are all hardcore about meditating, but that's only half the coin if you ask this humble pundit.

- Ill

[Dria El]

That stuff is good too. I was just saying that for the act of meditation or before my rituals, I don't advocate drinking or using drugs. There's a time and place for everything. <shrugs> But that's just my way...

[slvr_phoenix]

I've got to actually kind of agree with Illuminatus. I mean some forms of meditation / astral work require a release. It's not about a matter of concentration, but actually a lack of concentration and letting things come to you. In cases like that, I could see alcohol being a very useful tool. So it all depends on just what kind of meditation you're doing I guess.

And I'd also like to add that the responsible consumption of alcohol in moderation does not make all people tipsy or drunk, nor does it affect their concentration. In fact there are people out there who can consume a noticable amount of alcohol without being affected in any way. It all depends on the individual, their metabolism, their weight, how full they are at the time, how fast they drink, and numerous other factors.

It's the abuse of alcohol that causes problems.

I'd have no qualms with turned away someone from a ritual for being smashed. I however would also have no problems whatsoever allowing someone to drink responsibly before a ritual.

I think for some people, a small amount of alcohol can be relaxing and help clear the mind, making meditation much more fruitful.

And for others even a small amount of alcohol gives them problems and so should be avoided before meditation.

To each their own.

[Twilight Garden]

My two or three cents are... It is an extremely personal thing if you are doing solitary work. You know yourself better than anyone else. How does alcohol effect you? Are you going to be able to concentrate or release concentration as needed?

As far as group work, I think it depends on the Ritual or group or the workings you are doing. If you have a recovering aloholic in the group, you may want to be sensetive to that and no one "drinks." Also, nobody in group workings should force anyone to consume anything one is not comfortable with. But one should respect the wishes of the group if it is asked that no one "drinks."

As far as youngsters go, until they are of legal (where I am: 21+) drinking age, I WILL NOT reccomend it.

[airmist]

Thank you for the welcome, Dria El. I am enjoying everyone's input and, more generally, am really glad a friend introduced me to mysticwicks.

Can someone suggest where I might find or start a thread on pagans in recovery? I'm not looking to continue this subject (alcohol) somewhere else. I would like to explore issues common to some of us.

[Shy Hawk]

Try the Healthy Pagan!
And welcome home!
~Shy

[Dria El]

Originally posted by Shy Hawk
Try the Healthy Pagan!
And welcome home!
~Shy

You're very welcome airmist!
And I agree with Shy Hawk. :)

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by LunarMist
As far as group work, I think it depends on the Ritual or group or the workings you are doing. If you have a recovering aloholic in the group, you may want to be sensetive to that and no one "drinks." Also, nobody in group workings should force anyone to consume anything one is not comfortable with. But one should respect the wishes of the group if it is asked that no one "drinks."

As far as youngsters go, until they are of legal (where I am: 21+) drinking age, I WILL NOT reccomend it.

By the Goddess you must be high strung. "If you have a recovering alcoholic in the group"... are you a support group, or a circle of wiccans????? This whole Focus/Support group mentality has saturated EVERY OTHER meeting-based paradigm, you'd think that a bunch of pagans could get together and cut loose without that 'bringdown' attitude.

Forcing people to drink? What college propaganda have you been watching of late? At my alma mater, it was called "Project IMPACT" and largely regarded as a joke, until people started BELIEVING the crap they put out.

And it is the rare and very sheltered youngster who waits until he/she/whatever is 21 before having a beer. It's higly region-dependant. In Pennsylvania, kids started drinking at 13-14... here in NJ it's closer to 16-17. I'm not saying that's good or bad, it's just highly subjective depending on the culture.

Lunarmist, despite your implications, not everyone who opens a bottle is an addict or a dependant.

- Illuminatus

[Swanspirit]

most people who are doing groups have actually spoken to each other prior to the group LOL .. and have worked these things out ....... as in........
NO ALCOHOL to minors no matter who bleats and whines "well most kids drink before the legal age".....
a group of responsible adults that meets on a regular basis does not want to add giving alcohol to minors as chargeable offense
But then there are groups and there are "groups"
There is a local group here who are HARD partyers...... hit the bars frequently and "hard" LOL ......(but to hear them tell it they are the only real "wiccans" in town......)and folks you would NEVER know this from over the internet interaction with them ......but you know what .. that is still their choice ..... just as it is the choice of the rest of the local pagans not to "circle " with them ......
but the rest of us just get together and we have more of a family atmosphere ..people bring their children ....... if they want and include them in ritual........... so alcohol is strictly an after ritual choice among the adults ......and not offered in ritual ......
I like the idea of offering a thread with the REAL information on alcoholism ...... for instance an increased tolerance is a sign of early alcoholism .......
Love and Light
Swannie

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
There is a local group here who are HARD partyers...... hit the bars frequently and "hard" LOL ......(but to hear them tell it they are the only real "wiccans" in town......)and folks you would NEVER know this from over the internet interaction with them ......but you know what .. that is still their choice ..... just as it is the choice of the rest of the local pagans not to "circle " with them ......

Love and Light
Swannie

Where are these people? I can't scrape up a pagan to go out to the pubs with to save my life. Not so much because they are unwilling (many are) but they are underage. GET OLDER ALREADY! You know who you are.

- Ill

[Shy Hawk]

I'll go with you Ill........
(quietly)...when I grow up.

Hehe.

[Sequoia]

blah, 'lumie. blah. :rolleyes:

hehe I really don't think alcohol is nessicary for a ritual or anything. Personally, if someone thinks it's required, I'm not objective to a SIP of it or even a small wine glass of a light alcohol (mm.. .mead). I just don't think ti's right to go "oop, I"m getting ready for a ritual, a hyuk. . . better get the ol' whiskey out! *CHUG*" 8O I know that's a stupid example, but see what I mean? I'm very kewl with a small, ceremonial amount. Just not DRINKING drinking. If you know what I mean by that.

as for the drinking age thing: yes, I'm 16 and I've had a wine cooler and occasional sips of things. . . but that was with my father's permission. Which is kewl by me, because those coolers were so yummie I might've had too many if I wasn't listening to him ^^; My point is, if an underage goes somewhere with their group, and everyone else is over age, and they want to drink, and they give the youth a drink, they can be arrested for that. And what if something happens when everyone's "tipsey" and what if the youth makes poor desicions? it's all on whomever gave him or her the drink. It's a very serious thing. That's why older people may seem to be "sticks in the mud".. . because they can get into a sh*tload of trouble just having under 18 or 21 year olds in their homes and ceremonies/rituals. . . let alone giving them alcohol.

hey, a thread on alcoholism would be a great thing to start. Perhaps even a MW unnoficial chapter of AA? hehe;)

[Lavender]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
... is everyone so focused on concentration???

Alcohol is not good for concentration, I'll give you that much. But why is concentration so important? What ever happened to cutting loose and drinking a lot and dancing in the woods??? You guys are all hardcore about meditating, but that's only half the coin if you ask this humble pundit.

- Ill

Well, actually, it's because alcohol makes me woozy & ill. :sick: It's hard to do anything when you're busy trying not to throw up. :sick:

[Swanspirit]

I can see it now in the local papers......
LOCAL"WITCHES" CITED FOR ALLOWING MINORS ACCESS TO ALCOHOL ...........
ohh wouldnt that be charming???
I live in a resort town...... and selling alcohol and cigarettes to minors is a HUGE deal here .... because we have been fighting off allowing gambling [thank you Gov Glendenning ]and under age kids in clubs so we can continue to be a FAMILY resort ...... so wouldnt it go over big that the local "witches" were giving alcohol to kids .........
which some do actually ......( they would deny it but I have been there... they threw a "beach party" one year and I know for a fact there was under age drinking because someone who was THERE told me who was drunk ... ) and I hope they dont get caught simply because I dont want to see pagans get more of a bad name ......
Lets by all means have a recovery thread .... GO FOR IT PUMA!!!!!!!!
HUGS
Swannie

[slvr_phoenix]

While being against underage drinking and alcoholism are nice, I think the gist of the original post was if alcohol can be used to help clear one's head before meditation.

To which I believe the answer is: it all depends on the person. For some people yes. For others no. Try it. If it works, congrats and try not to become dependant on it. If it doesn't work, bummer and better luck next time.

[Dria El]

Originally posted by Illuminatus


Where are these people? I can't scrape up a pagan to go out to the pubs with to save my life. Not so much because they are unwilling (many are) but they are underage. GET OLDER ALREADY! You know who you are.

- Ill

Sounds like you're living in the wrong place. ;) :)

[Twilight Garden]

I belong to a legally incorporated chuch and must protect myself as well as the church for the age thing. By beliefs are different for those whose parents are present. We do not need a mommy and her attorney coming to us saying their child came home smelling of wine. And as long as someone underage does this on their own and without peer pressure of another witch sayng, "It's ok. All the witches do it for spirituality or mentality.", my beliefs fall under what I said for solitary practice above.

As for the restrictions on group workings maybe I should specify, that is for a small group. If it's a large group it's not really possible to consider everyone's individual condition.

[Yvonne Belisle]

I grew up having passover wine with my mother's family and a glass with dinner when at my fathers family. That doesn't make a person an addict at all. My Chilodren also have wine every passover in my house in honor of my ancesters and thier beliefs. Passover is a ritual so I guess to me it is a matter of responsible drinking and moderation.

[Swanspirit]

We definitely need a thread on alcoholism LOL,
cause this aint the place........and the ideas about the effects of alcohol could use a reality check........it is a disase, not a matter of willpower ..... and should be over in the healthy pagan thread .....
Love and light
Swannie

[loopy]

*confused* Are there alcoholics here who want a thread for support or something? Did I just miss their posts?

[Shy Hawk]

Loopy
.....;) Anna Paquin is hot. Hehe:loveduv:

[loopy]

Shy~
Lol, I know, isn't she? :D:D

[Yvonne Belisle]

I don't see a need for a thread on alcoholism. It has been a part of religion for centuries and there is a diference between reasonable use and abuse. If you want to consider it as a drug so are most herbs we tend to use ie camomile it affects the body it alters our body letting us relax thus when you take it you are under the influence of a foriegn substance. Not a bad thing in my book I believe that it depends on the individuals involved in the ritual and the ritual itself. That's just my 2 cents.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by loopy
Shy~
Lol, I know, isn't she? :D:D

Hells yeah she is!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, if you want a thread on Alcholism, quit TALKING about it with 54,240,239 posts and go over to the Healthy Pagan forum and MAKE ONE. Lordy. last time I saw so much indecision was at... a.. um... some.. place with a lot of indecision.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Illuminatus


Hells yeah she is!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, if you want a thread on Alcholism, quit TALKING about it with 54,240,239 posts and go over to the Healthy Pagan forum and MAKE ONE. Lordy. last time I saw so much indecision was at... a.. um... some.. place with a lot of indecision.

And as usual Illy says it clearly and succinctly. :)

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
I've got to actually kind of agree with Illuminatus. I mean some forms of meditation / astral work require a release. It's not about a matter of concentration, but actually a lack of concentration and letting things come to you. In cases like that, I could see alcohol being a very useful tool. So it all depends on just what kind of meditation you're doing I guess.

Yes, but there are those of us who like the comfort of knowing that the Gods or other Messengers did deliver us with information, and that that information didn't come upon us because of the influence of drugs or alcohol.

[Dria El]

Besides, isn't it taking the easy(cheap) way out? And how reliable would any information you got that way be?

[Shy Hawk]

Ill you crack me up. (chuckles):D

Loopy, when I went to your page I was like...."hey, loopy is cute."....then I looked closer and said..."Loopy looks strangely familiar".....80(hits forhead) Doh!

[Twilight Garden]

Mcmerlin

Didn't think you'd be starting all this when you started the thread, did you? Pretty neat how many different opinions you can get!

Welcome to Mystic Wicks :D