What is Black Magick?

[Pure Ahimsa]

I have seen many people identify 'Black Magick' in so many ways, what do you see it as?

[Xentor]

Black magic is normal magic used in a bad way.

[DixieWitch]

what Xen said.

[Morgandria]

I don't believe magic has a colour - just the intent of its' user. Most people mean that "black" magic has an ill or negative intent.

[PoisonIvy]

Any magick that does harm to another or is used in a negative way.

[Lilith79]

Any magick that does harm to another or is used in a negative way.
ditto

I'd also like to say, I don't have problems with the term black magic since many people understand the association. It's when I see people saying they practice other colors of magic-blue, red, yellow, orange, green-that I will roll my eyes. I had a friend like that years ago, and they were convinced they were right and that 'color' magic existed because it was on their Magic the Gathering cards. :woah:

[Romani Vixen]

A state of mind.

[flar7]

some believe in color magic, and since you cant prove it either way, they could be as right as any other path. thank you for your support.~Bartles&James

[Valerie]

I don't believe in "black magick" or "white magick" - I think it's all about intent and how you choose to harness your energy. I think we as human beings have both light and dark aspects in us, as does nature - in order to see the rainbow, we must endure the storm. I think we have the control and the choice to do positive, helpful magick rather than negative, harmful magick (which I think are much better terms than just "white" and "black", which leave a lot more room for interpretation).

To me, black magick doesn't mean anything, except maybe a ritual with black candles and other objects, used to get rid of negative energy. I know that's not the "mainstream" meaning of it, but then again, I've never been much for the mainstream. :hehehe:

[charmedkisses1]

Black magic is normal magic used in a bad way.

what he said

[VroomBroom]

I'm an 'other' voter.

Magic has no color, it just is. And being called black is just the term put to it by people who believe black to represent evil/bad. I love the color black, so it has no conotation with evil/bad for me. I'm not fond of the color of creamed peas.....so I guess if I had to give it a name when I do something someone may not consider 'proper', then I'm doing creamed peas magic.:)

[Teresa]

I'm an 'other' voter.

Magic has no color, it just is. And being called black is just the term put to it by people who believe black to represent evil/bad. I love the color black, so it has no conotation with evil/bad for me. I'm not fond of the color of creamed peas.....so I guess if I had to give it a name when I do something someone may not consider 'proper', then I'm doing creamed peas magic.:)
:veryweird :rotfl: :hehehe: :tongueout :T :rollingla I think I would give it a name also of something I truely disliked !

[Raidenmaru]

THe closest I can think of is "Magic Johnson." Seriously, since when were we able to define the meaning of colour, much less good and evil?

I love these dichotomies.

[Pure Ahimsa]

I did not know what it was really, I just thought it was when someone used Black Candles to absorb energy and direct it, thats what I do.

[VroomBroom]

Some people would consider bindings, hexes and curses to be of the 'black magic' variety.
But then again, if you are doing a 'binding' on someone who is known to be a pedophile, I consider it a good thing and really don't care if I'm 'bending his will'. Or a spell to break up an abusive relationship, where breaking them up will save the other one from more beatings or worse.
Thats my kind of creamed peas magic;)

[Temptation]

I went with option four.
Black magic means something different depending on the person you're asking. You probably will get a different definition each time.

To me Black Magic is like any other kind of magic. It's just magic with a specific intent.

[fireswimmer]

I agree with those who say it is all intent. I do nto believe that magic, which is energy, can be good or bad.

[WingedTigerChild]

Magic, like so many things, is subject to circumstance. It is not necessarily white or black; positive or negative. It really all depends on where you're standing, so to speak.

[Aidron]

In the way that most people think of it, it is bullshit.

In the way I define it is tapping into the darker side of mysticism, the yin side, the receptive and shadowy side of the cosmos. Lunar magic, for example, I would list within this realm, although I would never utilize the term black magic except in very selective cases where I am defining the magic by its color correspondence (i.e. magic that is heavily focused around color associations).

[IndigoMoon]

I would say that Black Magick is mgick used with negative intent. Although I don't have the need in my life to label magick as black or white, I would describe it that way if I was talking to someone who is new to the craft.

[wakywitch]

Amore evil use of magicks.
Negativity spells, manipulations, etc.

[Pure Ahimsa]

Amore evil use of magicks.
Negativity spells, manipulations, etc.

Like....curses? Hexes? I don't really believe in those from my expreineces, but I guess that I havnt tried it, so I wouldn't exactly know.

[ravynbynorthwynd]

magic is relative. whats good for me may be bad for another, and there is no magic that does not do harm. humans are not omnipotent, they cannot see all ends.

[WingedTigerChild]

^ What ravyn said. That's what I was trying to say with my previous post. :)

[Marchosias]

Other.

An edgy way to say "Voodoo".

[Jolixte]

I don't think that black magic is anything.

[Marishae]

I have seen many people identify 'Black Magick' in so many ways, what do you see it as?
I have always seen "Black Magick" as evil or bad. Doing something against someones will and not for the greatest good of all.

[Phaedra B]

An edgy way to say "Voodoo". Thweeep! Possible offensive remark alert!

Voodoo (or Voudun) is a highly complex magical religion. It does include some practices that are outside the norm of American Neopagan or Wiccan practice. However, the context of your comment suggests you view Voodoo as simply negative. I prefer to believe you don't know any better, as opposed to your deliberately choosing to make a snide remark.

Would you care to explain your comment further?

[flar7]

in english useage, "Voodoo" has a negative connotation. Just a fact. We use it all the time as such, "Dont make me do some voodoo on your ass!"

[Sequoia]

No such thing as "black magick." Actually, no such thing as "magick" with a "K".

"Magic" is simply a way of working with energy or directing prayer. Some people use physical things like wands and chalices and chants and crystals and rituals to focus their minds into directing the prayer or energy.

As I said before... is water used to drown someone "black water"? Is a prayer asking for someone to die a "black prayer"? Is a car (of any colour) used to run someone over, a "black car"?

Magic(k) is energy is prayer is energy is magic(k). It's neutral, people.

You name it something to make you feel better about yourself, or to help you grasp the concept. Frankly, black-and-white are very simple concepts... sometimes it's easier to have the whole "am I a good witch or a bad witch?" out of the way before you "cast" a "spell."

You're not a "black mage" by using the Necronomicron to open a void in the life of your enemy any more than you are a "white mage" using the Rede to heal your kitten.

And people who get power trips from using a fictional work by the author of the Cthulu sci-fi books and tracing little geometric patterns and thinking it means the end of the world...

Well, it really makes me wonder how old these people actually are.

[memnoch]

I think many people take themselves too seriously. Also some people go too far in trying to be perfect...maybe looking for recognition by the christian god while rebelling against him at the same time. There is no right and wrong, only judgement from others

[Phaedra B]

in english useage, "Voodoo" has a negative connotation. Just a fact. We use it all the time as such, "Dont make me do some voodoo on your ass!" Oh, well, then that makes it perfectly all right to make ignorant and insulting remarks. I stand corrected.

Is there a smiley for appalling?

[Sequoia]

Oh, well, then that makes it perfectly all right to make ignorant and insulting remarks. I stand corrected.

Is there a smiley for appalling?

Hey, don't get your panties in a bunch. I'm sure someone'll come to defend you. People around here will even defend people who believe JRR Tolkien's elves are going to reinstate the ever-hovering apocolypse.

{music} It's a selective world after all! {/music}

[flar7]

ah, but there are many types of water.

and of course there is such a thing as black magic, since you cannot prove or disprove it.

it just may not exist for everyone. simple, no? :thumbsup:

[flar7]

Oh, well, then that makes it perfectly all right to make ignorant and insulting remarks. I stand corrected.

Is there a smiley for appalling?
you might use this fella? :bug:

[Fang of Loki]

A word used for a number of techniques.

[Sequoia]

ah, but there are many types of water.

There are? :eyebrow: Since when?

and of course there is such a thing as black magic, since you cannot prove or disprove it.

it just may not exist for everyone. simple, no? :thumbsup:

I'm not disputing the existance of people who use energy in a rather unwise fashion, nor am I disputing that energy exists. I just think it's silly to pretend that the same energy used for both "healing" and "destructive" "magic" is actually two different kinds. It's silly to me because it's not; energy is energy.

Just as toddlers learn that not everything is yes or no, black or white, right or wrong, so too should the "pagan community" as a whole realize that there is no such thing as special fluffy pink good magic and evil dark powerful bad magic. No black, no white. Only energy.

And if you really have to get into it, there is no person that is without a smidgent of bad, no person who is without a smidgent of good. If you really must try to seperate 'magic' and energy into "good" and "bad", you must come to realize that nothing is pure "good" or pure "bad", pure "light" or pure "dark." There is no such thing as purity. Anywhere. Period.

In nature, a wolf may eat a rabbit. Is the wolf a Dark creature? A tree may grow taller than the sapplings which are trying to grow beneath it, preventing it from recieving light and growing - does that make the tree a Black tree or a Death tree or an Evil tree?

I suppose the reason I am most irritated about the concept of "light" and "dark" "magic" is that people who are behind it fundamentally tend to believe that they themselves are practitioners of either "light" or "dark" "magic." They are the Good Witches and the Dark Ones who believe they can actually manipulate the world in a large way, such as curing a relative of cancer, or using "Dark Magick" to battle the Forces of Evil (tm) that are trying to destroy a city. (Which, I might note, most normal people are faaaar too oblivious of the Magickal World to notice that their city was under attack by the giant gremlins of the underworld.)

I mean, if it was from a purely logical standpoint, I could be like... "yeah, whatever, go make up names to help yourselves understand it." I mean, that's how humanity functions, right? Take the same basic thing, and try to make a distinction between how they're not actually quite the same, so that they can then name it something and seperate it, choose sides, whatever. And which is better, and who is wrong, etc etc etc.

But it isn't like that. It's weird people who think they're mages ala Final Fantasy and Tolkien, battling the forces of the universe with their White Magic and their Black Magic and dancing with cloud sprites and summoning Cthulu by saying his name three times.

That's why the whole silly thing gets to me.

Why do you have to prove that your "magick" is that much more evil and dark or good and light than the other person's, anyway? It's not about the energy, it's about your usage of it. And being "light" for the sake of being "good and light and pure" is about as sensible as being "dark and evil and powerful" for the sake of being cool and feeling good about yourself. It's nothing but a feel-good powertrip anyway.

[wakywitch]

Is there a popcorn smiley here?
Want front row seats to watch Sequoia and Flar7 duke it out.

[Aelfoak]

I have seen many people identify 'Black Magick' in so many ways, what do you see it as?
Mmmm.....chocolates!

Sorry, just had to do that :toofless:

[Sequoia]

Is there a popcorn smiley here?
Want front row seats to watch Sequoia and Flar7 duke it out.

:ghost: :D


Hey, Flar, you ready for a fiery debate? :fpoke: Or possibly just a "sticky" one. :hehehehe:

[flar7]

There are? :eyebrow: Since when?



I'm not disputing the existance of people who use energy in a rather unwise fashion, nor am I disputing that energy exists. I just think it's silly to pretend that the same energy used for both "healing" and "destructive" "magic" is actually two different kinds. It's silly to me because it's not; energy is energy.

Just as toddlers learn that not everything is yes or no, black or white, right or wrong, so too should the "pagan community" as a whole realize that there is no such thing as special fluffy pink good magic and evil dark powerful bad magic. No black, no white. Only energy.

And if you really have to get into it, there is no person that is without a smidgent of bad, no person who is without a smidgent of good. If you really must try to seperate 'magic' and energy into "good" and "bad", you must come to realize that nothing is pure "good" or pure "bad", pure "light" or pure "dark." There is no such thing as purity. Anywhere. Period.

In nature, a wolf may eat a rabbit. Is the wolf a Dark creature? A tree may grow taller than the sapplings which are trying to grow beneath it, preventing it from recieving light and growing - does that make the tree a Black tree or a Death tree or an Evil tree?

I suppose the reason I am most irritated about the concept of "light" and "dark" "magic" is that people who are behind it fundamentally tend to believe that they themselves are practitioners of either "light" or "dark" "magic." They are the Good Witches and the Dark Ones who believe they can actually manipulate the world in a large way, such as curing a relative of cancer, or using "Dark Magick" to battle the Forces of Evil (tm) that are trying to destroy a city. (Which, I might note, most normal people are faaaar too oblivious of the Magickal World to notice that their city was under attack by the giant gremlins of the underworld.)

I mean, if it was from a purely logical standpoint, I could be like... "yeah, whatever, go make up names to help yourselves understand it." I mean, that's how humanity functions, right? Take the same basic thing, and try to make a distinction between how they're not actually quite the same, so that they can then name it something and seperate it, choose sides, whatever. And which is better, and who is wrong, etc etc etc.

But it isn't like that. It's weird people who think they're mages ala Final Fantasy and Tolkien, battling the forces of the universe with their White Magic and their Black Magic and dancing with cloud sprites and summoning Cthulu by saying his name three times.

That's why the whole silly thing gets to me.

Why do you have to prove that your "magick" is that much more evil and dark or good and light than the other person's, anyway? It's not about the energy, it's about your usage of it. And being "light" for the sake of being "good and light and pure" is about as sensible as being "dark and evil and powerful" for the sake of being cool and feeling good about yourself. It's nothing but a feel-good powertrip anyway.
and thats nice, your opinion. Doesnt make it true. Others feel as passionately that there is Dark/Black Magic, and feel that their proof or rationalization is as true as yours.

Why should a pagan community have to realize this? To each their own, and I wont say it doesnt exist, merely perhaps that I cant see it or use it. As to saying about kids and yes/no, black/white, thats a philosophical debate of the first order. Things very simply ARE black and white(as far as those colors existing means), you learn that 2nd day of color theory.

[Sequoia]

and thats nice, your opinion. Doesnt make it true. Others feel as passionately that there is Dark/Black Magic, and feel that their proof or rationalization is as true as yours.

It's still just a name for energy. It's a name they give it, either to make it sound more impressive or to make it easier to understand. It's just a name. :)

Why should a pagan community have to realize this? To each their own, and I wont say it doesnt exist, merely perhaps that I cant see it or use it. As to saying about kids and yes/no, black/white, thats a philosophical debate of the first order. Things very simply ARE black and white(as far as those colors existing means), you learn that 2nd day of color theory.

Actually, it *is* more than black and white. That whole "Is it wrong for a man in poverty with no other means of help to steal medicine for his sick child?" question. Scientifically speaking, small children cannot distinguish shades of gray - things are either purely right, or purely wrong. Most children, as they enter adolesence, begin to realize that there may be more to the picture. And by the time most humans are adults, they realize the reality that life is not just shades of gray, it is an entire rainbow of moral possibilities.

So anyway, that's my rebuttle to your colour swatch theory. ;)

[flar7]

whether they see it or not, its there.

Like energy, which is what color is. There are many types of energy, black, white, red, etc... Consider radiation as the prime example of all energy, it has many types.

so, Ta Da! :fpompoms

Your serve.

[Ivy Artemisia]

I don't utilize the term much... I believe that the term could be used as negative magick, at least, thats what people usually ask me what I practice. If I come across someone who asks me if I practice Black Magick.... I usually can tell them I'm a white witch. Its a term that is easier for them to understand. I don't want to go into a diatribe about how magick has no color, etc., if I'm not trying to overwhelm them. Plus its true... I AM a white witch. I'm VERY light complected. ;)

[Sequoia]

whether they see it or not, its there.

Like energy, which is what color is. There are many types of energy, black, white, red, etc... Consider radiation as the prime example of all energy, it has many types.

so, Ta Da! :fpompoms

Your serve.

Well, to address it as 'energy' in the scope of light, Yes, there are many "types" of light that we've broken it down into. Short waves, long waves, intense waves, weak waves... but it's all light.

Personally, I don't assosiate the 'energy' of the sun and forms of light (such as radiation) with the 'energy' of spiritual workings.

I say that, because it's really like this: in the Pagan community, is there *any* scientific way to prove things? Most of the ideas and concepts dealt with when it comes to 'magick' (and indeed most things faith-based) are rather difficult, if not impossible, to prove to a scientific mind. So far, they have very little accurately recorded in the human ability to manipulate the flow of energy - and since they still aren't quite acknowledging that it's real, it's going to be some time until they start trying to classify the energy used/generated by people.

(The things I remember hearing about, a couple years ago, had something to do with the way quartz crystals could modify energy, and that I guess they had seen some kind of change when a human 'charged' the crystal? Or something? It was cool.)

*laughs* If they eventually discover that there are two and only two forms of human manipuable energy, I sure hope they have the sense to give them nice, scientific names, instead of "BLACK MAGIC!" and "WHITE MAGIC!" Maybe even like "shortwave escalating intensity waves" and "lower modulating slow waves."

But in general, when it comes to faith and what I've seen so far in my life, I am generally inclined to think that most instances of "black magic" are a rather imaginative concoction, without any real superpowers, and that most instances of "white magic" I've seen were... well... modified prayers, and prayer-rituals. Have yet to *actually* see someone who thinks they can case CureIII, but I'm still waiting for it. Oddly enough, I have met people who think they can summon Cthulu... these being the same people who "do battle" on the "astral plane" and frequently believe that some fantasy novel or another has MORE than a hint of truth, and that the world is going to 'end' or crap merge or something like that, RIGH TNOW, and that they will sprout wings or pointy little ears, or something equally rediculous.

In other words, if you want to call it "magic", it's all one "magic", and the destinctions are made only in the mind of the one working with it.

How's that? :p

[flar7]

almost, you had it right up to the end with your last paragraph destroying all your previous work. :cutesanta

You switched from views and hypothesis, ideas and opinion, to absolutes. :fpartay:

game tied... :rollingla

[Rick]

Oh, MAN!!! Just when I was bobbin' my head from side to side followin' the ping pong ball back & forth, you both STOP!!! I think I got WHIPLASH!!!


Hey, Mol, you got homeowner's... er, site-owner's insurance for these kinda occurences?

:rotfl:

[Sequoia]

Aww, but if we didn't have a truce every once in a while, we wouldn't be able to confuse people as easily!

[VroomBroom]

Heeeyyyyy, I don't wanna see a truce, keep debatinghttp://fool.exler.ru/sm/popc1.gif

[Sequoia]

Heeeyyyyy, I don't wanna see a truce, keep debatinghttp://fool.exler.ru/sm/popc1.gif

Heeey, a popcorn smilie!!

LOL, well I would debate some more, but I'm at school, and in theory, I'm supposed to be working. :cool:

[VroomBroom]

I can wait:boing:

[flar7]

but I won? :lilangel:

Its all about accepting that maybe since a person cant see or feel it, doesnt mean it isnt there for someone else. :crystalba

[VroomBroom]

Thats all fine and dandy...some people can feel energy, some can't .......but that still doesn't mean that magic has a color.

[flar7]

Thats all fine and dandy...some people can feel energy, some can't .......but that still doesn't mean that magic has a color.
and doesnt mean that it dont either.

[Kendrah]

I have seen many people identify 'Black Magick' in so many ways, what do you see it as?

I like to say everything I do is white magic and everything everyone else does is black magic. ;)

Mr. Andersen (I forget his first name) of the Feri Tradition said: "White magic is poetry. Black magic is everything that works."

Haha.

[Sequoia]

Thats all fine and dandy...some people can feel energy, some can't .......but that still doesn't mean that magic has a color.

Exactly!

*chuckles* And yes, Flar, I heard your "doesn't mean it doesn't!"

But, how can there be a debate, if you truly believe there is no way of knowing whether or not something exists? If you take a completely neutral position, I win by default, because I have taken a firm position on something. ;)

The point is that the energy isn't coloured. Calling it "black" or "white" is like colouring milk with food dye and saying it's PINK milk, hence it has different properties than white milk.

[flar7]

Exactly!

*chuckles* And yes, Flar, I heard your "doesn't mean it doesn't!"

But, how can there be a debate, if you truly believe there is no way of knowing whether or not something exists? If you take a completely neutral position, I win by default, because I have taken a firm position on something. ;)

The point is that the energy isn't coloured. Calling it "black" or "white" is like colouring milk with food dye and saying it's PINK milk, hence it has different properties than white milk.
no, I state that your invalidation is invalid since you have no proof. I could offer the same arguments as you in favor of the colors of magic/energy.

So, its possible its there and you have yet to realize it. I am a positive person who hates to deprive people of possibilities. That is about as neutral as it gets..... I will allow all their views and admit....it may be possible. I am far from all knowing, if you on the other hand do know all, then please share. :uhhuhuh:

[VroomBroom]

Words have power and energy...yes?

If you say 'I love you', those are positive words right?
Then again, if you say 'I hate you' ....a negitive...do we argree on this?

And yet when you say the words, either love or hate, no color comes along with them...correct? Yet by saying those phrases you have definatley projected an energy upon that person, and it was colorless.

[Scarlettvixen]

im with VB

creamed peas is the colour lol

[Sequoia]

Words have power and energy...yes?

If you say 'I love you', those are positive words right?
Then again, if you say 'I hate you' ....a negitive...do we argree on this?

And yet when you say the words, either love or hate, no color comes along with them...correct? Yet by saying those phrases you have definatley projected an energy upon that person, and it was colorless.

Exactly ^^

[VroomBroom]

http://www.discodelic.netfirms.com/happy-highfive3.gif

[flar7]

Words have power and energy...yes?

If you say 'I love you', those are positive words right?
Then again, if you say 'I hate you' ....a negitive...do we argree on this?

And yet when you say the words, either love or hate, no color comes along with them...correct? Yet by saying those phrases you have definatley projected an energy upon that person, and it was colorless.
no, love would connect with a lighter energy source, and hate would connect with a darker. Also, those words originate from thought and the thoughts from energy, the energy from colors.

Words/Langauge is the intermediary of how we translate color thought into color results/magic. color/energy

Most of this is from my experience with the actual colors of energy and not magic per se.

I win again! :woot:

[VroomBroom]

OK, now your giving colors to words...all though I'm sure when you hear 'orange' you think of cheese:p

Just like when you speak the word of a chant/spell/prayer, the words themselves have no color of their own. Magic itself has no color of its own either. It just is.
When someone uses their breath to blow a bubble or a feather. The breath that was used has no color.The breath itself was the colorless energy that moved the bubble/feather.
If I was to point my finger at some one and say 'your going to get....chicken pocks!' That would be putting a 'bad' juju on someone, right? And yet no black magic beam shot from my finger.
Magic, be it good or bad, is still colorless.

[flar7]

actually, when you blow out air, it has a wide range of colors in it, but it does not have all colors in it.

I said, we use words to go from color energy of the mind to color energy of magic. Many just cast their spells based on one or two spectrums/colors in the magical field. :fpeace:

[HuntinOwl]

I use Black Magick when the light are turned off and White Magic when the lights are on.
:jumprope:

[AlAskendir]

"black" is the kind of magick that those you (or whomever is speaking) oppose. It is the magick-doing pagan equivalent of 'evil', a word that has no content-meaning, but has a use in motivating people to agree with you, contribute to you, support you, and hate and attack others.

[Sequoia]

"black" is the kind of magick that those you (or whomever is speaking) oppose. It is the magick-doing pagan equivalent of 'evil', a word that has no content-meaning, but has a use in motivating people to agree with you, contribute to you, support you, and hate and attack others.

Because pagans can't be "evil"... we just have manipulative intent. But we aren't evil. Or demonic. Or bad. We're just different. :p

[VroomBroom]

Speak for yourselfhttp://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/angry/veryscary.gif


http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Lovin-Wink.gif

[Sequoia]

Speak for yourselfhttp://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/angry/veryscary.gif


http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Lovin-Wink.gif

LMFAO :dancy:

[HuntinOwl]

I' can't believe how long this is going. Yes! your all right. Black is well known as Evil by the general Christain raised world. Yes! Black is part of color magick("K" is use to define the difference between slight of hand Magician and Occultists ,my thanks to Alister Crowley (http://larabell.org/crowley.html)). Yes! magic has color, if you use color. Yes! color is the intent of the user/s. Yes! Your voice has color, if you visualize it as your speaking it. (and scientifically if you count the water droplets that would act like prisms in your breath). Yes! Black can be good and protective magic.

Magic is and will always be as appointed with the intent and the believe and faith of the user.

Did I miss anything....?:hmmmmm:

[VroomBroom]

Well hunny, if my voice has color.....then what color is this----->>:razz:

:smooch:

[Sequoia]

Ooh, can I have a blue voice?

I have a blue house with a blue window...

[VroomBroom]

Im blue-aba-de-aba-di-aba-di-ababdi:p


http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Off-Topic2.gif:D

[HuntinOwl]

Yes you, if you intend it can have a blue voice. But only if you concentrate and focus your visual intent with firm and commanding thoughts, controlling your inner-most desire (child-self) and allow true spirit (higher-self) to direct your want.:hehehehe:

[Phaedra B]

One could become blue merely by reading the thread.

A hammer can be used to pound nails or pound skulls. It's the same tool, no matter to which use it is put. Color it as you will.

Color meanings are culturally related. We dress brides in white, other cultures marry wearing red. We mourn in black, others wear white. Context, m'dears. Context is everything. (Sometimes. Always remember, never say "never" or "always".)

[Rick]

Ooh, can I have a blue voice?

I have a blue house with a blue window...
If you get a blues voice, & record a lotta CD's & make a lotta money, can I be your manager? or roadie? or somethin'?

[flar7]

well, color as magic or energy is not culture based. It just is, for those that see it. Also, color is subjective to the individuals perceptions! You might see blue color as red. Doesnt mean that it isnt blue, just that to you its red.

On color of your voice, you can adjust it with intent, but also realize you have no control over some of the color due to the exhalation of warm air and life force. Think of Aura's and such. They have specific color with specific meanings.

So, perhaps those that dont believe the magic is colored, just cant see it, or use it differently so that it doesnt matter, or only use colors they have access to, even the idea concept of no color. As stated, there is no such thing as a no color object or energy.

[Sequoia]

... are radio waves coloured? Not the air (or whatever) they move through, not the light from the sun... but the very waves themselves? Has someone caught a wave and looked at it under a microscope for a PHYSICAL colour, not a philisophical one?

The point you just made for me, thank you ^^ , is that since the colour is relative and different to each person, or perhaps not even required for some, that means that it is not an actual colour itself, nothing defined - but rather, a mechanism for a person to visualize along with.

For example, it might be difficult for SilverRavenBroomstick to visualize sending healing energy to someone, without imagining it being white and "holy" and surrounding that person with white, holy, special light.
For example, it might be difficult for BlackNightMage to visualize cursing someone, without imagining his energy as dark and black and crackling with lightning in it, maybe even red like blood, to convey his feelings of maliciousness and hatred towards the subject.

The point is, in both cases, it would be something they used to focus their thoughts, much like a person may use beads to focus them on their prayer. Are the beads themselves the prayer? No... but you do use them to focus and direct your prayer, help you remember what you are doing.

That would be like my saying... I 'visualized' the sound of a scream when I "psychically attacked" someone (*snort*) (*ahem* sorry). Does that make the energy, now and forever, known as "scream-coloured energy"?

Unless you're phsically, recordably seeing black lightning streaming from your fingertips a la Darth Vader, I don't think you can claim that magic is "black." Same thing if you don't see white light and faerie bubbles floating around when you "cast white magic spells."

Good lord, people, this isn't Final Fantasy!!! "magic" is simply working with energy - it has nothing to do whatsoever with physical aspects like colours, scents, sounds- only what is significant to you and helps you focus. If that's colour, that's great! But don't go around like EVERYBODY uses it, and it's the ultimate truth.

As someone said above - the Blue Hammer is not going to hit any harder than the White Hammer, unless you're in a video game. Which, from time to time, I think some of you think you are. :fpoke:

[ibonewits]

I'd also like to say, I don't have problems with the term black magic since many people understand the association. It's when I see people saying they practice other colors of magic-blue, red, yellow, orange, green-that I will roll my eyes. I had a friend like that years ago, and they were convinced they were right and that 'color' magic existed because it was on their Magic the Gathering cards. :woah:I was the one who introduced the American magical community to the concept of magic having colors, in Real Magic, way back in 1971. In large part I did it because I found the concepts of black magic and white magic simply silly. These latter concepts are rooted in Christian Dualism and its system of absolute either/or thinking. In practice the terms are usually used to indicate approval or disapproval of your own or someone else's magical activities.

After discussing the biophysics of color perception, and presenting a long digression on dualism, witchcraft, and auras, I suggested that colors could be useful associational tools for modern occultists, and gave examples of a system I thought would work well: "red magic" for healing and hexing, "green magic" for herbal and fertility matters, "blue magic" for psychological workings, etc. A few years later, I extended this system in my book on magic for gamers, Authentic Thaumaturgy, which is probably where the creators of MTG got the idea. Of these various suggestions, only green caught on, as a few people called themselves "Green Witches" and later published books on Green Witchcraft.

Does magic as such "have" colors? Of course not, because "magic" is an abstract label for an activity that people engage in. Do people find colors to be useful metaphors, associational devices, and classification categories? Yes, although different cultures and individuals within cultures will have slightly differing color systems and psychological reactions to colors. What is necessary here is to understand the difference between sensation and perception. A dozen people could sense the same wavelengths of visible light bouncing off an object, yet one would perceive it as "green," another as "mint," another as "aqua," etc., depending on their arts education (if any) and their culture's way of chopping up the spectrum and, to a lesser extent, their personal set of optical rods and cones.

To speak to the essence of this thread, yes there is such a thing as magical malpractice or jerks with wands. Calling what they do "black magic," or calling them "black magicians," is adding a crude Christian Dualist label, historically rooted in racist, sexist, and creedist assumptions, and doesn't really communicate much more than social disapproval by those who don't like them or in-your-face jerkhood by those calling themselves such.

If one wants to communicate clearly and accurately, it is better to say, "I think their magic is unethical" or "I think that spell would be ethical under such-and-such circumstances," rather than blithering about black and white magic. Of course, that requires people to be aware of the dualist slant of the mainstream culture we grew up in and that surrounds us every day, which is difficult to accomplish.

cheers,
Isaac

[flar7]

... are radio waves coloured? Not the air (or whatever) they move through, not the light from the sun... but the very waves themselves? Has someone caught a wave and looked at it under a microscope for a PHYSICAL colour, not a philisophical one?

The point you just made for me, thank you ^^ , is that since the colour is relative and different to each person, or perhaps not even required for some, that means that it is not an actual colour itself, nothing defined - but rather, a mechanism for a person to visualize along with.

For example, it might be difficult for SilverRavenBroomstick to visualize sending healing energy to someone, without imagining it being white and "holy" and surrounding that person with white, holy, special light.
For example, it might be difficult for BlackNightMage to visualize cursing someone, without imagining his energy as dark and black and crackling with lightning in it, maybe even red like blood, to convey his feelings of maliciousness and hatred towards the subject.

The point is, in both cases, it would be something they used to focus their thoughts, much like a person may use beads to focus them on their prayer. Are the beads themselves the prayer? No... but you do use them to focus and direct your prayer, help you remember what you are doing.

That would be like my saying... I 'visualized' the sound of a scream when I "psychically attacked" someone (*snort*) (*ahem* sorry). Does that make the energy, now and forever, known as "scream-coloured energy"?

Unless you're phsically, recordably seeing black lightning streaming from your fingertips a la Darth Vader, I don't think you can claim that magic is "black." Same thing if you don't see white light and faerie bubbles floating around when you "cast white magic spells."

Good lord, people, this isn't Final Fantasy!!! "magic" is simply working with energy - it has nothing to do whatsoever with physical aspects like colours, scents, sounds- only what is significant to you and helps you focus. If that's colour, that's great! But don't go around like EVERYBODY uses it, and it's the ultimate truth.

As someone said above - the Blue Hammer is not going to hit any harder than the White Hammer, unless you're in a video game. Which, from time to time, I think some of you think you are. :fpoke:
no, this just means you lack the proper definition of color. Just cause the blind man cant see the color does not mean it isnt there. Hell, we have done tests to see the energy effect of color on blind people and it turns out, that colors have direct affect on a person, that would be the energy wave of said color. Yes, Radio waves have color, simple science knows that. No, you are not equipped to see it.

I cant understand why no one gets this, its simple. Energy/magic can/does/may have colors. If you think not, thats cool and your opinion, but not fact. Dont list something as fact if you cant prove it. Since you cant, and I cant, then its possible. Ta Da.

[Alkhemia]

Dont list something as fact if you cant prove it. Since you cant, and I cant, then its possible. Ta Da.

No, it's a logical fallacy - argumentum ad ignorantiam. Essentially, lack of proof does not equal proof and vice-versa.


Alkhemia

[flar7]

No, it's a logical fallacy - argumentum ad ignorantiam. Essentially, lack of proof does not equal proof and vice-versa.


Alkhemia
so, there is no such thing as Magick, Magic, or Spells. cool.


cause if there is, they might have colors.... :muwaha:


Its about possibilities. If you think its impossible, thats cool for you, I prefer to think of all things as possible...until proven otherwise... and even then, likely means I just wasnt able to do it YET.

[gurlygurl2004]

I've used Black magick before and that used to be my thing, so I have to say it is pretty evil. I mean most magick is debatable or grey. But some is obvious bad intentions.

[Sequoia]

no, this just means you lack the proper definition of color. Just cause the blind man cant see the color does not mean it isnt there. Hell, we have done tests to see the energy effect of color on blind people and it turns out, that colors have direct affect on a person, that would be the energy wave of said color. Yes, Radio waves have color, simple science knows that. No, you are not equipped to see it.

I cant understand why no one gets this, its simple. Energy/magic can/does/may have colors. If you think not, thats cool and your opinion, but not fact. Dont list something as fact if you cant prove it. Since you cant, and I cant, then its possible. Ta Da.

Well, while the proof/lack of proof is valid ;) I will still have to disagree with you. My basis is this: Alright, so let's operate under the scientific classification of colours we can't see (ultraviolet, etc). Does magic that registers as "black" (black, as I understand, is a colour produced when all or nearly all energy/lightwaves are absorbed) on an energy frequency do nothing but harm? Does having a bad intent suddenly change the frequency of the waves of energy, registering them in a "black" spectrum?

And if you're being true to science, and black being an absence or complete absorbance of energy, then how could *anyone* use "black magic"? It would be absorbed the moment it was generated...

Wow, physics brain-bender: How do you create something that is an absence? Is black magic removal of light waves, or whatever you might register as "white magic"?

And if so, are tragedies caused by energies fleeing the area?

Is the absence itself the evil, "black magic", or is it the associations we get of the effects of something suddenly not existing?

OoooOOOOo, new can of worms, Flar! :D

[flar7]

see, now you are seeing "possibilities."


if it is the absence of all, then perhaps when you are trying to use such a "color" its actually doing as you wish by draining the colors........................or,

if it is the absorption of all, then its acheiving the negative results by overloading the area with all the colors of the "spectrum."

and perhaps, it is how "natural" disasters and phenomenon(sp?) work.

Perhaps you dont decide to reach out and use the red mana, but your red intent locks onto the red energy out there and uses it. Just another possible explanation.

[Sequoia]

I still personally don't buy into it... ;) but it is quite an interesting train of thought!

Whenever you try to use science to explain/relate to magic, interesting ideas pop up. Usually pretty far fetched, but interesting nonetheless.

And, following that train of thought, "black magic" wouldn't be magic at all; rather, an abcense of energy/magic/whatever. Cool. :D

And if you were following that particular philosophy, would human beings be able to create such an absolute abcense, manipulate it at all, or would it simply be a force of nature, unchangable?

Not to mention that *removing* all energy from a situation might not necessarily have a *bad* effect. For example, if someone was being hurt and spiritually worn down upon, and you used "black magic" or whatever this abcense energy frequency is, you would remove that hurt... but would good things fill the void, or just more hurt?

It's a lot less definate. Cool thought, though.

Only thing I see is that most people just simply believe that "good" magic is "white", and "bad" is "black"... and that's not going to change. Even if it's silly to inaccurately label energy.

I like our energy-lightwaves theory thing, though!

[flar7]

as you can see, I love color theory. I feel that its an underused avenue of treatment that many scientists and doctors have proven works. Strangely enough, the color work regardless of vision problems or culture. So cultural bias towards colors, seems to very strange since certain colors DO cause certain things, why would a culture construe it differently?

I have a great book in my art room on Color theory, wavelength and beyond the visible spectrum into what we call radio wavelength and its associate colors. Also the study of reflective light/color, and projected light/color.

[Phaedra B]

as you can see, I love color theory. I feel that its an underused avenue of treatment that many scientists and doctors have proven works. Strangely enough, the color work regardless of vision problems or culture. So cultural bias towards colors, seems to very strange since certain colors DO cause certain things, why would a culture construe it differently? That's a great question, one which someone could surely turn into a thesis or dissertation, no?

More to the point, manifestly, cultures do have different constructs about color. Since one could not say one culture is "wrong," and another "right" however different they may be with their color associations, how do you reconcile this reality with that theory?

[flar7]

well, the study was done in various institutions like hospitals and such. It was discovered that people had reactions and emotions based on the rooms color, even if they could not see it. Its one reason Hospitals use certain colors and not others in patient areas.

The study was cross checked and done on different levels to make sure that the "good" vibes that the blind were picking up, werent from the caretakers who might or might not have liked the colors.

The quicker healing/recovery time was also documented, and is another reason for certain colors in the hospital.

It lends itself to all kinds of theory. Why would a culture derive a different meaning from a color that affects all people( over 76% I think it was) in a similar manner? Now, the researchers were using the conclusion as to it being basically the radiation behind said colors, ie the energy of that particular color. But in the field of magic, I think energy is an apt word as well.

all comes down to very interesting possibilities for the use of color magic/therapy

[dr_zeus440]

bah, black and white are purely arbitrary anyway. so the concept is arbitrary. so, in the end, when everythings boiled down, it doesnt really matter all too much (i dont find anyway). all these divisions...meh. magic is neither black, nor white.


...it's really hot, electric pink. with purple polka-dots, and blue ribbon.

[dr_zeus440]

so, there is no such thing as Magick, Magic, or Spells. cool.


cause if there is, they might have colors.... :muwaha:


Its about possibilities. If you think its impossible, thats cool for you, I prefer to think of all things as possible...until proven otherwise... and even then, likely means I just wasnt able to do it YET.

hmm, interesting take. but where's the fun in argueing that it's possible? that's taken for granted. new position!

btw, alkhemia, argumentum ad ignorantium is slightly different to what flar seems to be saying. to be committing ignorantium, you have to, essentially, be stating "because you cant disprove it, it is true". flar seems to be saying, and correct me if im wrong flar, that "because you cant disprove it, it is possible", which is quite different. but kudos for knowing your fallacies. hehe, you can disprove 99% of people on this board using those lovely gems of knowledge.

[flar7]

yes, if you cant prove it, and you cant disprove it, then both are possible...

and, if the absence of mana creates black or if black creates the absence of mana....hmm. circle logic, chicken and the egg.....hard to find. Both interesting takes on the ideas of color magic.

[HuntinOwl]

I think we can say. that it is Postive and Negative. It is protective and discerning. It is patience and it is absence. Absence of all negative and all Positve, It is the void. The continuum, Everthing that is with-in and with-out.
Cerridween's dimension of birth death rebirth, is considered black. start from nowhere comming to the light. from the cauldron of life. What works? How does it start? cause and effects Levels of balence exstance believes thoughts. amid from the center of the left and right. If your into Chaos you know that ever action has multitude and infinte reations. IN your zealousness to find the right answer. Your outcome is only every answer here. And it is not that I 'm lying nor they are trying to mislead. but these are all confident poeple give you what they know to true, In there minds. Akashic records mentions all that you have heard and all that you seek . It is in you that you will come to understand what you need to know. time is misleading. There is no limit that you can't study. But this time around you need to advance your study's. Pull out of the darkness what you find. Use it for your life. and believe in what you think that you might have seen. Here there is the Enlighten and the twinkling and than there are mirrors that only show you what you yourself already know. Look into those mirrors to gain insight on knowledge all ready attained.

There are many here that can help you reflect, you'll find most in the counselors theard. You don't need a problem just talk to them.:welcome:

[AlAskendir]

well, color as magic or energy is not culture based. It just is, for those that see it. Also, color is subjective to the individuals perceptions! You might see blue color as red. Doesnt mean that it isnt blue, just that to you its red.
If a tree falls in the forest, and you don't hear it, or have any sensory data about it in any way...did it fall? If there were an objective universe with no observers, 'blue' colors aren't blue or red anyway, even that label is a matter of cultural training...in that mythical objective universe, those colors are light, and while we can specirfic what wavelengths the light might be traveling at there, right when some observer decides which color that is, s/he has assigned a culturally trained label to the light.

On color of your voice, you can adjust it with intent, but also realize you have no control over some of the color due to the exhalation of warm air and life force. Think of Aura's and such. They have specific color with specific meanings.

So, perhaps those that dont believe the magic is colored, just cant see it, or use it differently so that it doesnt matter, or only use colors they have access to, even the idea concept of no color. As stated, there is no such thing as a no color object or energy.[/QUOTE]

Cool! So what color are X-rays?

[AlAskendir]

well, the study was done in various institutions like hospitals and such. It was discovered that people had reactions and emotions based on the rooms color, even if they could not see it. Its one reason Hospitals use certain colors and not others in patient areas.

The study was cross checked and done on different levels to make sure that the "good" vibes that the blind were picking up, werent from the caretakers who might or might not have liked the colors.

The quicker healing/recovery time was also documented, and is another reason for certain colors in the hospital.

It lends itself to all kinds of theory. Why would a culture derive a different meaning from a color that affects all people( over 76% I think it was) in a similar manner? Now, the researchers were using the conclusion as to it being basically the radiation behind said colors, ie the energy of that particular color. But in the field of magic, I think energy is an apt word as well.

all comes down to very interesting possibilities for the use of color magic/therapy

This study was done in which countries? America? England? France? Mexico? India? China? Or do you even know?

[HuntinOwl]

What does this have to do with the Question What is Black Magick?

[Sequoia]

Actually, real auras don't subscribe to Llwellan Publishing book standards. They can be all sorts of colours and textures, and like dreams, are more relative to the person themselves and their environments, rather than a set colour.

:p I'm still of the thought that it isn't so much "colour" of energy as intention of energy... and if your intention colours it in your mind, call it whatever is easiest for you. But realize that it's just a different name for the same thing.

Corn, maize, it's still a grain growing in your field.

[Verthandi]

A friend once defined black magic as anything not used for personal growth.

[HuntinOwl]

All have been said, I think this is done. I'm un-subscribing. If someone needs my input please PM me after you have read all that has been written here. There is enough opinions here to at least give you the ability for formulate one of your own.

[flar7]

Actually, real auras don't subscribe to Llwellan Publishing book standards. They can be all sorts of colours and textures, and like dreams, are more relative to the person themselves and their environments, rather than a set colour.

:p I'm still of the thought that it isn't so much "colour" of energy as intention of energy... and if your intention colours it in your mind, call it whatever is easiest for you. But realize that it's just a different name for the same thing.

Corn, maize, it's still a grain growing in your field.
nope. Corn and maize are different. Its a different language, corn can never hold the meaning that maize does to its native speakers. Corn to an original pilgrim, maybe, but definitely not todays language.

Aura's colors are pretty much definite and have heard no different interpretations away from the basics in color of aura's and what they mean. To go into depth on aura and color, check out the many books on celestial pathways/pyschic vampires/chakra(sp) and the like. They stay with certain colors and certain colors meaning certain things. Strangely, that is one thing that differs in the eastern cultures. Where white is death and black life in real world colors, they hold the same color meanings mostly when it comes to Aura reading. Is another favored topic of mine. I learned to see auras in 95' I think it was, an awesome wake up. To see the colors reach and retract, to see where "halo's" might actually have come from and the meaning.... very cool.

To recap, my opinion, if you cant see the other colors of magic thats cool, you just use your intent and the color comes to you that suits your purpose, and since you are magic color blind, you see no color. For those that do, they react with and use specific colors of magic and work from there. Like reading a book, sometimes you are browsing with no intent, and just look at the colors of magic.

[AlAskendir]

What does this have to do with the Question
[/b]


What does what have to do with the question?

[Sequoia]

*laughs* Okay, Flar. I think we came as close to compromise as we could earlier ;)

I've pretty much said all I wished to. :) The colour is in the mind of the one with crayons. :hehehehe:

[flar7]

Just glad you agree that the colors "could" exist as a separate thing, and not a figment of the user's mind. Thank you and good day. :evilway:

[Sequoia]

Just glad you agree that the colors "could" exist as a separate thing, and not a figment of the user's mind. Thank you and good day. :evilway:

Well, colours exist in wavelengths... and if a person truly believes that their energy is coloured, I suppose to them, the colour exists.

Doesn't mean it does to everybody! :lol: but that is the nature of faith! Different to each person.

So, we are both correct! :evilway:

[flar7]

c'mon, its easy to say...... try it.

"its possible."


"its possible"


"anything is possible until proven that its not... and even then it may be, and just not yet..."

[Sequoia]

c'mon, its easy to say...... try it.

"its possible."


"its possible"


"anything is possible until proven that its not... and even then it may be, and just not yet..."

:lol: it's also possible that someday, somewhere, a pig may be born with wings and take to flight. Doesn't mean I see it here and now, or believe it here and now.

;) So it's 'possible'... but likely? :ghost:

[flar7]

:lol: it's also possible that someday, somewhere, a pig may be born with wings and take to flight. Doesn't mean I see it here and now, or believe it here and now.

;) So it's 'possible'... but likely? :ghost:
born with wings, likely already happened. Born with functioning wings? not yet, but possible..... Time will tell. One must have a basis for establing whats likely or not, and since you can't establish no basis for magic not having color, then the argument there ends quickly on the, "likelies" But, if magic is a form of energy and we know energy has color by wavelength etc, then we have more on the side of "likely" in possibilities.

[Sequoia]

*laughs* You already got me to say "possible"... I won't agree to anything futher than that. I do still think it's rather unlikely that they have any colours in our visible spectrum- and that's what these people seem to think. That brightly coloured visible energy is going to go straight out from their hands a la Emperor Palpatine. Or swirl around their candles. Or something like that.

And if that's not what they're thinking it's supposed to do as "coloured magic", then they're simply using a focusing device ("I see healing magic as blue") to help them concentrate on the goal ("blue makes me think of healing and calm").

So... until magical energy is in a visible spectrum like sunlight... I'm not sure you can say it's "coloured" in the way people think. Otherwise, it's past what our eyes are capable of seeing, and hence doesn't have an actual visible colour, such as blue, pink, green, black, or white. Though one could argue that white is the substance of ALL visible spectrums, and black a complete lack thereof, and in that case, you *might* be able to argue that they have some place in non-(humanly)-visible energy.

I do feel that's highly doubtful, though.

And I'm pretty sure most of the people calling their magic "White Healing Goddess Magick" aren't thinking scientifically. :fpeace:

[flar7]

but many do see the color, and see it moving or projecting as color from their body or in their spells. Now, I dont see someone firing eldritch bolts of black energy at their foe, and I would think that most people who work color magic dont think that way either, merely that they can see the color and manipulate it even though others are "color blind" and cant see it. <---- Huge Run on Sentence. forgive me english majors. :)

The other was an explanation of how likely and unlikely work. As to whats possible, that too is a done deal.

:sunny: :mmm:

[Sequoia]

but many do see the color, and see it moving or projecting as color from their body or in their spells. Now, I dont see someone firing eldritch bolts of black energy at their foe, and I would think that most people who work color magic dont think that way either, merely that they can see the color and manipulate it even though others are "color blind" and cant see it.

But that's just it! They think they see actual colours, when scientifically, none exist. Their imagination colours the path they feel the energy taking, based on what colour their subconscious (or conscious) feels is most appropriate.

It's all a matter of how you personally visualize energy. Some "hear" it. Some "see" it. Some probably even smell or taste it. Some people "merely" feel or sense it.

It's my personal belief, based on experience and a severe lack of proof for physical manifestations of 99% of "magick", that energy is pure energy - that is, it lacks a physical manifestation. The conversion rate of energy to matter (and therefor force, movement, flames, anything physical) is very very wasteful - that is to say, if we were going to pretend we were changing 100lbs of energy into matter, we'd probably only get 1lb of matter, if that. It is "invisible", much like oxygen (yes, with special microscopes we can 'see' oxygen molecules... come now, most people don't use that kind of equipment to look at their "magick", now do they?) It would be next to impossible to classify pure energy as something with enough physical substance to have a visible colour spectrum - even if light has it, I don't think the 'energy' we speak of with reguards to workings is purely sunlight. Much of it seems to be generated within the self, and from surrounding environments. It would seem to me, then, that not all energy workings ("magick", prayer, etc) would be composed of the visible light spectrum, and in fact may be part of an energy that is as yet unclassified; that which is generated by living beings, as well as other things in the surrounding environment, such as water, stone, and the motion of air that we call wind. (Which, I suppose in itself is simply a physical motion energy, rather than something mystical and unknown. Study a bit of meteorology and you'll see what I mean ;) )

That's not to say that energy cannot ever be converted to another kind of *energy*... many, many reports throughout history have cited things such as deep, concentrated prayer having created a very visable "glow" or "haze" of light, usually whitish though occasionally otherwise. One can certainly extend this to energy work. But this does not suggest that energy innately has a colour all of it's own. It merely shows that when enough energy is brought together, perhaps it can be compressed, focused, or otherwise converted into a visible light spectrum. The fact that it is most often a whitish or "light" glow, similar to sun- or moonlight, suggests that the converted energy is innately *all* colours, akin to being "neutral", innately without any distinctions. Containing every colour, which most people usually reguard as blank or without influence towards any single purpose.

I would also theorize that most instances of coloured light being seen could be effected by numerous influences - the properties of the air, of interacting light and wavelengths, of the person's perception themselves. I would argue that 99% of the time, the light seen was initially neutral, and was somehow effected by something else in the environment. (and no, Flar, by "effected" I don't mean manipulated and coloured by someone elses' will :p )

Visible, focused light spectrums are very often actually *visible.* Take for example, a laser pointer. It is simply light; electric energy focused into a beam, converted to a visible spectrum. In this case, it is (most commonly) a distinctive red. This type of energy is not always felt, but is most often seen with the eyes, and at certain high concentrations can be felt, "cutting" (burning). Reguardless, it is visible with the naked eye (in most circomstances). The times it is not, it is usually a very tight focus (as I understand), and is such a tiny presence that it takes something such as a mist to be seen. Right? ;) I don't know a *whole* lot about lasers. But that's what I've gathered.

So, to use that as an example... highly focused energy already produces a visible presence, in the form of colour. My argument would be that if "magickal" energy were of the same spectrum, subject to colours, it would have easily been shown.

A laser can be photographed... why can't a stream of "magickal" healing energy?

Because it's not part of the visible spectrum, and therefor has no humanly visible colour.

:D

[flar7]

but even without color theory we know that pure energy has color and you cannot change energy to matter without being a 100% across the board, since you cannot lose matter and energy never goes away. Ever. They exist permanently and alter form, hence they do have color and even MAY change color. And thats just the scientifically proven part without the aspect of magic that uses some form of energy, likely colored.

adding.

on the 100% that needs clarifying. It means, you may not get to use the 100%, but its there. Like colors, YOU may not use the black, but its there... Or, like the colors of magic. _cloud9_

[The High Queen of Faerie]

dear gods.


i am not into applying colour to magick, but if it works for you... >>;

[Sequoia]

LOL Okay okay, this is getting just a little too... garbled. ;) I am done this time. :lol:

[flar7]

dear gods.


i am not into applying colour to magick, but if it works for you... >>;
you dont have too, its already there. :doh2:

[flar7]

LOL Okay okay, this is getting just a little too... garbled. ;) I am done this time. :lol:
Ok. I feel that as long as one soul is tortured and educated with color theory and how it applies to daily life, then my time here is well spent.

[Sequoia]

Ok. I feel that as long as one soul is tortured and educated with color theory and how it applies to daily life, then my time here is well spent.

Aww, don't flatter yourself. :lol: I'm not tortured... and I was educated on most of what we've talked about long before this thread was even conceived of. ;)

But, thank you for quite an interesting "what if"! :yourock:

[flar7]

hey, I am an almighty admin, and if I say was torturing you, then I was tortuing you!........er.

I mean, educating you!.......er....um..... I mean sharing an enlightened viewpoint!...... um... an opinion based on available evidence?

[Doodlebug]

Evil magick. Though I suppose it can refer to just about anything.

[Niamh celtic mist]

I believe it is intent. I will not attempt magic that conflicts with my beliefs of right and wrong. Now my beliefs are just that.... mine. I would not do a love spell because I don't believe in forcing my will on another. I will do a money spell..but, I won't do one so fred loses his job so I can get it.. If it is in a persons belief system that anything goes..then they will most likely practice in that vein..... I am not the one to decide if that is right or wrong. What I find the most gratifying in my path is the ability to decide how I want my life to go...it is a personal journey...There is no one standing over me saying its wrong. Before I do a spell I think long and hard about what I'm asking for and how it will effect me and others in my life..and you know what? Sometimes I decide thats not what I really need at all...to me thats true power! :shift:

[Bethra]

over here it's usualy a selection box of dark chocolates :) LOL

I went for other since I didn't really agree with any of the choices since its all a matter of perspective really. What one person deams as good can be another persons evil. Black and white are only tones after all.

[Eclecta]

As usual, I am against the grain on this particular question. So, I am gonna get on my soapbox for a minute.

Why is it that almost everyone you talk to thinks because something is dark it is evil? It simply isn't true. Black magick is darker yes, but there is good in it as well as bad. I know white magick practitioners who are by far more evil than most of the black magic practioners that I know. It seems to have gotten a bad rap because some who talk about it, have no idea what they are talking about or what it really is.

Black magick is an illusion. The magick is real, but the identifying color is nothing other than a figment of your imagination. It is as good as white magick, but then again I guess it all depends on who is doing it and how they label it. Some of the magick I have used was considered black, but it was used for good. Does that mean it isn't really black magick, or was someone confused when they added it to thier little black book?

Just because it is dark, black, or misunderstood, does not mean it is evil. (Hmm... I wonder how many times I have said that before? Haha...)

[flar7]

:bug:
will stick to earlier statements made about color in magic. Of course its possible.
(would have typed this last nite with the smiley, but keyboard was messed up)

[azrael1989]

ditto to most of the things said but I have to day that yes there is color magic and how you use it is your choice so its more of a gray magic in a sense without the color.
:colorful:

[Bethra]

There is no black magic. I'm not going to go into this in detail if anyone cares to read my oppinions you can find them in other posts in here. I will just say that Magic is not a duality it is a singularity, it is our perceptions that make it a duality. Magic is just Magic. We are the ones who see it as good or bad, black or white, maligne or malicious.

[Bullet]

I agree with Bethra. If you want a good explanation check:
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=1766377#post1766377
Check mine and Bethras posts.

Silver_Bullet

[Jolantru]

To me, black magic is simply magic or energy directed with ill intentions (in that the energy is designed to harm).

I agree with what Bethra has written as well.

Jolantru

[Bethra]

Yeh two people agreeing with me rofl. Wow that makes a change I actualy managed to get into a thread and not get into an argument for a change. Yeh I must be softening hmmmm, maybe thats not so good.
Oh well does this mean I have to converts to the Cult of Bethra? :abanana: