The effects.....

[Isis]

MM and BB to all,

Ok, I dont know if this has been brought up, but at the risk of getting beat up, I"m going to ask. How is this whole shibang going to effect us pagans? I mean Jerry Fallwell in his infinite wisdom, and self-righteousness has already blamed pagans and homosexuals for allowing this to happen. I suppose that's what having sex wiht one's mother does to ya, makes ya lil' fruity and you talk out your ass a lot.

I know our Islamic brothers and sisters are expereincing backlash,but I wonder what this is going to do for us. I bring this question up because there is a picture floating around from USAToday, which shows the aftermath and the billowing smoke. In this smoke, it is alleged that you can see Satan. You know the general publics perception of most pagans.....devil worshipers looking for attention on talk shows. We know who we are, but for those we might try to subtly educate this type of sensatioalism doesnt help.

Here's a link to the picture if you careto take a gander.

http://dailynews.philly.com/content/daily_news/2001/09/13/local/DEVI13C.htm

Anyway, I'd love to hear various thoughts on this subject, please. Thanks for your time and responses.....

Isis

[talamh]

My immediate reaction is... that's just too goofy. i always wonder why some people think it's the Devil and not.. i don't know.. the man in the moon or Peter Pan...

And given how computor technology can be used to alter pictures, who's to say it's an actual pic?

But i think the larger picture is that people see what they are looking for - and that a concept or idea has the power one allows it to have. A lot of people in the United States chose to be part of a spirituality that is largely based on fear... so they will see that which is fearful.

As to what it means to wiccans... maybe this is an example of why it's a good thing to be such an amorphous belief system.... we don't have any temples to attack.. and we're already used to a certain amount of sanction and mis-understanding. i think we're too low-profile for it to be a problem right now. bb talamh

[pagansoul]

People giving services are very carefull about trying to prevent hate crimes that will no doubt turn up when people are in the mood that the current event puts them in. (was that a real sentence?) Any non-christian has to be carefull and not invite abuse. I'm glad the goverment is taking its time. Anger will start a war in a second but the calm mind will win it.

[Myst]

There's a discussion on the picture somewhere around here already. I think it's either coincidental, just a pic of a spirit, or altered. I don't even think it resembles Satan at all. I don't think there are enough fundies around who will take those guys seriously and blame it on Pagans. And if they do and try something I'll be sure to kick their @$$.

I have no worries about that. :)

Evidently Satan in the bible is described as a handsome man in dark clothes, and people who were trying to make Christianity overcome Paganism started telling people he has horns. That's why people think he looks like that, as I've been told. :)

[Swanspirit]

where i have the links to those pics but here is a thought........from another board by a friend of mine.............
HOW DO THESE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT "SATAN" LOOKS LIKE? ( if he existed)
do they have a wallet size snap to refer to ??? and go" YEP thats HIM alllright I would know that big nose anywhere ????"
ROFLMAO
Looks like the greenman to me ..... or perhaps the spirit of the god leading those people thru the veil???
Love and Light
Swannie

[stillwater]

Yeah! Why don't we just go to Tupelo, MS, grab Jerry Falwell and send him to snuff out Bin Laden. From one crazy zealot to another, they ought to bring an end to themselves really easily. Then we will have killed 2 birds with one stone and done the whole world a favor in the process.

I'm from Mississippi, and when I heard Falwell's comments, I wanted to go to Tupelo (about 90 miles from me) and punch him in the face.

[Danustouch]

The comments of Jerry Falwell were absolutely repulsive, and without any grain of redemption. I am in the process of writing a letter to the 700 club concerning them. However, I think we must remember not to fight violence with violence. Do not become, that which we abhor. Saying how you feel about his statements, is one thing. Valid, and understandable. But to feel violence toward him A)gives him power.
B) proves to him and his followers the very thing which we fight so hard to deny
C)makes us less the rational, feeling, beautiful people that we are.

So please....let us not become like those who would persecute us. As much as we hate that which he says...do not resort to thinking violent and negative thoughts toward him. That is not like us.

As for the plume of smoke...it's odd..but my hubby, when he first saw the photo's, before anyone said something about satan, said he saw bin ladens face in the smoke. Personally, I think that trying to read sighns or such in the smoke is just a way for us to distract our minds, from the horror of what we were seeing, a defense mechanism, if you will. Some of us could NOT yet process what we were seeing, at the time. And some of us, still can't. So searching for pictures/symbols/sighns and omens in all of this, is probably a coping mechanism.

[rheirene]

I was wondering about that myself when I heard what he said ,somebody must have said something though because tonight he took back what he said and said he was not trying to discriminate against any certain race or group.
as for the smoke scene I just see smoke and horror.
I agree ,I think its a coping mechinism[sp]
BB rheirene

[Mariposa De La Luna]

Originally posted by Isis
MM and BB to all,

How is this whole shibang going to effect us pagans?

Isis

At an introductory tarot class on July 3, someone asked a question about whether the Pagan postcard campaign was going to amke an impact. Everyone in the circle picked a card. The reading basically came out yes but something was going to take attention away from it.

I've seen/heard people talk about the Falwell statement and they all leave off Pagans. They say homosexuals and civil libertarians and all the others he mentioned but leave off Pagans. What's with that?

[Dria El]

Is it just me or is the picture gone? I can't seem to find it on the site. :(

[flar7]

In the bible, satan is described as one of the most beautiful Angels. On a side note, it mentions that Jesus is a homely man.

As to cloud pictures, we have always seen pictures in clouds.
whoever names it first puts the impression in to the next observers mind, influencing their perception. If you saw it frame by frame, you would probably see all sorts of people and things.

[Twilight Garden]

:rotfl:Just a thought... Swanspirit, THAT CRACKS ME UP!:rotfl:

[SimplyStrange]

That is sooooo silly! I mean, someone emailed it to me, and I was looking at it with MistOfTheSea. It's just silly! I mean, it's like looking at an inkblot, it can be anything!! Besides, I pointed out to Mist that if you looked at it right, there was another part in the smoke that looks like an angel...

It is all based on imagination. And I find it annoying that people would blame this on the supernatural instead of just realizing that it was people! We as humans did this to ourselves! Whoever sat down and examined that picture, then pointed out "satan" needs to be slapped! I'm sorry, but I'm just sick of it all! I'm sick of everyone tying deities and "Satan" into this! People need to wake up and realize this was our fellow man! This was the doing of our brother...

...that's what makes it so horrible...