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Danustouch
September 18th, 2001, 12:04 PM
I found this article written from a ba'hai perspective, on the History of Islam. Not being Islamic myself, I can not confirm any of this with any authority. However, What I read of the article, seemed very well written, and well thought out. It is my hope, that this is a good portrayal of the Islamic Faith, and that in some way, by posting this, we can all come to a better understanding of the faith, and how vastly it differs from the beliefs of the Taliban Terrorists.
********************************************
http://bahai-library.org/unpubl.articles/islam.bahai.html

Lilu
September 18th, 2001, 04:23 PM
Thanks for posting that Danus. I found it very interesting (LONG, but interesting ;)) . Maybe I ought to print it out and send it to my bigotted grandmother-in-law who today was ranting about "those Islams!" - I did the whole rant about how it's not the religion, it's the fundamental's interpretation of it that's the problem, but I'm not sure it really got through :( I just got a "well.... ok" like I had no idea what I'm talking about. :mad:

Love & Light
Lilu

Danustouch
September 18th, 2001, 06:09 PM
(((((((((LILU))))))))))) that sucks. Well...maybe this will help for your next battle with her about it, eh?

Lilu
September 19th, 2001, 02:37 PM
argh. hhehe I doubt there will be much mentioned again... she's not usually so OPEN about her bigotry. Usually it's 'those coloured people'. She's a very nice person other than that. And she tries to blame it on her 'upbringing' like that's any excuse. :(

It's just frustrating.
Lilu

Danustouch
September 19th, 2001, 02:52 PM
I know the feeling. Most of my family is the same way :(

Maggie
September 19th, 2001, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Danustouch
I found this article written from a ba'hai perspective, on the History of Islam. Not being Islamic myself, I can not confirm any of this with any authority. However, What I read of the article, seemed very well written, and well thought out. It is my hope, that this is a good portrayal of the Islamic Faith, and that in some way, by posting this, we can all come to a better understanding of the faith, and how vastly it differs from the beliefs of the Taliban Terrorists.
********************************************
http://bahai-library.org/unpubl.articles/islam.bahai.html

Another good source for non-Muslims might be __A History of God__by (I think) Karen Armstrong. Has a long section on Islamic history, and it's put into context with both Christianity and Judaism.


Regards,

Maggie

mol
September 21st, 2001, 11:35 AM
Also, just pick up the Quran and read it. I still dont understand how those words can be corrupted as they are...

Yvonne Belisle
September 21st, 2001, 12:08 PM
People that are charismatic can take anything and twist it then cause people to believe it. Fanatisism is contagous as well as terrifying at times and always has been.

Swanspirit
September 21st, 2001, 12:25 PM
LOL look what SOME people have done with christianity.......the KKK refers to themselves as "godfearin Christians " and quote the bible to defent themselves.... people can twist anything to suit their purposes .. with a little fanaticism and hatred........
Your grandmother in- law sounds like my ex mother in-law [may she never rest in peace until she undoes the damage she did to my children with her hatred disguised as christianity]......
except you see I was one of the "infidels" me with my " Jewish and Italian " blood contaminating her sons pure German Scottish English Irish French blood......she actually said to my face ....... in the most condescending voice ..... "you know I would have loved anyone my boy brought home even if they were a little colored girl" QUOTE UNQUOTE....just to let me know where I stood..... and I was such young and such a naive good little Catholic girl it took me about 15 years to say anything back to her .....but I did .....
so why are we surprised other people can twist the most and best ideas and greatest thoughts on loving? when we have perfect examples right here at home ..... and dont even get ME STARTED ON "DR LAURA " and her hate and CONTROL disguised as therapy and love........twist twist......
Love and Light
Swannie

Danustouch
September 23rd, 2001, 09:25 AM
I agree, Mol. Picking up a copy of the Quran and reading it is a good way to educate ourselves about the "True" beliefs of Islam. The problem is...the way SOME people can interpret it. Throughout history, MANY people have taken ancient scripts/books, and interpreted them to suit their own goals. Such as the Bible. And most of us are not theologians, nor educated in the skills of interpretation. Most of us are not aquainted with the original language which the Quran was written in, so cannot make the judgements for ourselves, what the original texts says. That has been a HUGE issue with me, over time, personally. I see many Wiccans and Pagans taking certain verses from the Bible, and pointing to them to say why they left Christianity. Now..as a former christian, present Pagan, myself, I KNOW why I left Christianity. But I didn't have to base it on one or two bible verses. I've heard people taking these one, two, three or twenty bible verses COMPLETELY out of context, and using them to take a stance "Against" christianity (now, i'm not saying that all pagans, or even MOST pagans do this, it's a few...but a few that bother me). Being that I studied OT history, and biblical interpretation in college, as I was a Youth Ministry Major, I'm aware that the problem with taking these handfull of verses and trying to apply them to ones personal goals, etc...is that MANY misinterpretations occur. The Bible has been translated into MANY languages. Not to mention, there are SO many ways to translate anything (exegesis, hermeneutics)...and so few people are willing to apply those skills to their interpretations, before forming their conclusions. So the danger in just picking up a copy of ANY religious text, is that without studying interpretation, or also looking at various interpretations and analysis of the text you are reading..is that it DOES leave much open to error. This is how these people have been able to manipulate the teachings of the Quran into the twisted, disgusting things that the Taliban preaches. Because they took someone elses word for it. Because they accepted someone elses interpretation. Because they refused to read the ENTIRE text, etc. They did not analyze it in context, etc. This is the problem people encounter, when they refuse to TRULY educate themselves about a subject. They have perverted the texts..that much is obvious. But...they are living in a government which does not allow mass communication. They have no electricity (i'm speaking of afghanistan), they're schools have no desks, no paper, no pencils. They are forbidden to own a television, or a radio. They cannot use computers. So it should not surprise us that this environment PROMOTES misinterpretation of ancient texts, and that it limits peoples ability to think freely, to do "Wise" research, etc. Instead, they follow their leaders like sheep to the slaughter. Because the people that are preaching this hate, are WELL educated, WELL spoken, and Intelligent, in many ways. They are the wolves in sheeps clothing...and people who are made to live in ignorance, will gladly follow these wolves, to their deaths.

story
October 22nd, 2001, 04:03 PM
My father had been fond of repeating that "Islam is a filthy religion". I e-mailed him this:

Ali In Battle


Learn from Ali how to fight
without your ego participating

God's Lion did nothing
theat did not originate
from his deep center

Once in a battle he got the best of a certain knight
and quickly drew his sword. The man,
helpless on the ground, spat
in Ali's face. Ali dropped his sword,
relaxed, and helped the man to his feet.

"Why have you spared me?
How has lightening contracted back
into its cloud? Speak my Prince
so that my soul can begin to stir
in me like an embryo "

Ali was quiet and then finally answered,
"I am God's Lion, not the lion of passion.
The sun is my lord. I have no longing
except for the One.

When a wind of personal reaction comes,
I do not go along with it.

There are many winds full of anger,
and lust and greed. They move the rubbish
around, but the solid mountain of our true nature
stays where itt has always been.

There's nothing now
except the divine qualities
Coming through the opening into me.

Your impudence was better than any reverence,
because in this moment I am you and you are me.

I give you this open heart as god gives gifts;
the poisen of your spit has become
the honey of friendship"

------Rumi (Coleman Barks trans.)

He has since changed his view.

Danustouch
October 22nd, 2001, 05:23 PM
That was really beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Is it a story from the Quran?

story
October 22nd, 2001, 07:06 PM
no, its by jalaludin rumi, the founder of the mevlevi order (the whirling dervishes). Some of the most beautiful spiritual writing i've ever read. He's almost impossible to describe.....
here's another little blurb:

A craftsman pulled a reed from a reed bed
cut holes in it, and called it a human being.

since then, it's been wailing a tender agony
of parting, never mentioning the skill
that gave it life as a flute.


I think my first intoduction to islam came thru Rumi. How he could be considered to be following the same faith as, say, the taliban, is totally beyond me. In the 1200s he was light years ahead of them....

Danustouch
October 23rd, 2001, 01:49 AM
excuse my ignorance..but is that the same as Sufi Wisdom?

story
October 23rd, 2001, 12:36 PM
well, the mevlevi are a type of sufi. I don't know much about it, but i think it would be safe to say that most sufi schools would find some stuff to argue about with Rumi, although not terrribly much.

heres a link to a collection of sufi sites on the web. Theres a lot of info, and unfortunetly, a lot of filler. but some of it is really cool.

http://www.arches.uga.edu/~godlas/Sufism.html

theres also, off of that page, an interesting article about the meaning of jihad from a mystical and historical perspective.

http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/jihad-nasr.htm

interesting reading.

take care,
story

Demeter
October 29th, 2001, 04:42 PM
Using the Baha'i perspective to explain Islam is sort of like using the Christian perspective to explain Judaism. Baha'i is the successor faith to Islam, after all, and outlawed on pain of death in Islamic states.

Danustouch
October 29th, 2001, 05:00 PM
I can appreciate your opinion, demeter..but on the other hand, the B'hai faith tries very hard to represent all religions very accurately, and with much respect. They include the beliefs of many of the worlds major religions in their own belief system. The site seemed exceedingly unbiased in it's presentation.

Da Witch
November 7th, 2001, 10:53 AM
Von and Swanspirit are so right. Anyone can twist words to suit their needs and to support their on beliefs. I just wish more ppl would do as those on this board have done......RESEARCH and get down to what each belief is truely about. If that was done more ppl would realize that all religions are in some way connected in atleast a few of their beliefs.