Someone please help me interprete?

[Krowe]

Ok.. So I'm not a newbie at astrology but I haven't been able to figure out nearly as much of it as I want, or the eccenticities of the trade... I can make a natal chart for myself but can't understand what it all means.. Also, I'm kind of looking to find out a bit more by mixing in Eastern Astrology with it to kind of get a "full view" of what astrology has to say about me.. Can anyone help? Here's what I can give you to work with.

Date Of Birth : 11-14-78
Time : 10:35 AM
Place Of Birth : Lake Charles, Louisiana USA
Western Sign : Scorpio
Eastern Element/Sign : Earth/Horse

Also.. Here is a pic of what I have for my birth chart. I hope this comes out right 'cause I didn't shrink it down. If anyone can help me out with this I would greatly appreciate it. You can respond here or just send me an e-mail at poetrykrowe@hotmail.com

Peace!

Krowe

[Fluffmeister]

Hi, Krowe - just a quick plea about dates to anyone positng data: 11-14-78 is unambiguous because it *must* mean 14 November, but it's always a good idea to spell out the month, because 3-4-78 means 3 April to some people, and 4 March to others!

A good place to start is looking at the "big three": Sun, Moon and Ascendant. You've got Scorpio Sun, Taurus Moon and Capricorn Ascendant - not a bad combination; Scorpio is deep and intense, and Capricorn is serious and hardworking; your Ascendant is what comes across to people when they first meet you, and your Sun is the "real you"; sometimes, the two really clash, but not in the case of Capricorn and Scorpio - earth signs and water signs mix quite well.

The Moon, representing your emotions, is always important, but especially so in your chart. If you look at the way the planets are clustered, you have a spread of planets in the top half from Jupiter through to Neptune. The only planet not in this cluster is the Moon - this is called a "bucket" with the Moon as the "handle", meaning she's particularly prominent in your chart. Fortunately, she's in Taurus, where she's said to be "exalted" (that's good!).

Then I'd look at elements - you don't have any air in your chart, but a good balance of the other three. You're in touch with your emotions, can express yourself and are very grounded, but probably don't intellectualise about things - if someone hurts you, you feel it and you react, rather than pondering on it and going through all sorts of scenarios in your mind.

Then look at the patterns in your chart - you have Sun opposite Moon (so you were born on a Full Moon), and the Moon makes a trine to Saturn. This is a good combination - gives you self-confidence, and may suggest positive role models when you were growing up; Saturn can represent father and Moon mother, and the trine suggests a good balance of influences from the two of them.

Relationships may need some work, though - there's a "Grand Cross" involving Chiron and Juno, Venus, Jupiter and a body called Black Moon Lilith. Given that Venus in Scorpio can be a bit obsessive anyway, beware of over-possessiveness in your relationships.

[KEishin]

And I see a Yod with the Moon, Uranus and Neptune. Add the Sun opposition and you've got a Boomerang. (I'm studying configurations right now, can you tell?)

This Sun may denote an individual whose central purpose in life may revolve around continuous personal adjustments and major self-correction. He normally is pressured to make needed alterations in the manner with which he demonstrates his will, power, authority, and self-pride. Objective self-examination will be very important for his proper growth, since maladjustments here are often due to unrecognized self-centered attitudes. The individual may have difficulty establishing his personal center. His ego-drives are not expressed in a direct-outgoing manner but tend to internalize and bottle up. This person can start out in life with a low self-concept and a sense of inferiority, making him feel out-of-tune with his early environment. He may seem ineffectual and powerless for some time, leading him to sense he is insignificant in the eyes of others (especially authority figures).

But if evoked and still mismanaged, this Yod may release the power to abuse personal will and authority. The individual may be able to powerfully dominate the affairs of his new path, but often with fateful repercussions he assertively brings upon himself.

[Krowe]

Thanks for the interpretations.. Not sure about what some of it means (The Grand Cross thing and such), LOL, but thanks a lot KEishen and Fluffmeister. =)

Anyone else got anything else to throw in? I'd appreciate as much info as I can get on my chart, especially if you can throw a bit of the eastern in with the western. I'm very interested in knowing if or how the two affect each other.

Peace!

Krowe

[Fluffmeister]

Thanks for the interpretations.. Not sure about what some of it means (The Grand Cross thing and such), LOL, but thanks a lot KEishen and Fluffmeister. =)

Oops! Yes, good point. Basically, when two planets are at right-angles to each other (90 degrees give or take a few degrees) they're said to be "square" to each other. That's the red lines in the chart. When they're 120 degrees apart, they're "trine", and when they're 60 degrees apart, they're "sextile". Generally, squares and oppositions (that's obviously when two planets are opposite each other in the chart) are considered "difficult" and sextiles and trines are considered "easy". That's a very simplistic approach, but it's a good starting point - so red lines are difficult energies, blue lines are easy.

Now, sometimes you get four planets all at right-angles to each other - that's called a "Grand Cross" and it shows up on the chart as four red lines making a perfect square shape. It's considered pretty difficult to balance all four energies.

Sometimes you get three planets all trine each other - that's called a "Grand Trine" and shows up as three blue lines making a neat equal-sided triangle. It's considered very lucky, and easy to balance those three energies.

[Krowe]

Oops! Yes, good point. Basically, when two planets are at right-angles to each other (90 degrees give or take a few degrees) they're said to be "square" to each other. That's the red lines in the chart. When they're 120 degrees apart, they're "trine", and when they're 60 degrees apart, they're "sextile". Generally, squares and oppositions (that's obviously when two planets are opposite each other in the chart) are considered "difficult" and sextiles and trines are considered "easy". That's a very simplistic approach, but it's a good starting point - so red lines are difficult energies, blue lines are easy.

Now, sometimes you get four planets all at right-angles to each other - that's called a "Grand Cross" and it shows up on the chart as four red lines making a perfect square shape. It's considered pretty difficult to balance all four energies.

Sometimes you get three planets all trine each other - that's called a "Grand Trine" and shows up as three blue lines making a neat equal-sided triangle. It's considered very lucky, and easy to balance those three energies.
So what does this particular Grand Cross mean, if you wouldn't mind? I mean I know you said that "relationships might need some work", but can you explain that a bit more? I'm interested in this Chiron, Juno, etc thing. I've only heard vague mentions about Chiron (isn't that what some people call Planet X, or the 10th planet, a moon or small planet past Pluto?).. And what is the Black Lilith Body? What does it have to do with astrology?

[Fluffmeister]

So what does this particular Grand Cross mean, if you wouldn't mind? I mean I know you said that "relationships might need some work", but can you explain that a bit more? I'm interested in this Chiron, Juno, etc thing. I've only heard vague mentions about Chiron (isn't that what some people call Planet X, or the 10th planet, a moon or small planet past Pluto?).. And what is the Black Lilith Body? What does it have to do with astrology?
As well as the main planets, most astrologers nowadays use Chiron. Chiron was only discovered in 1975, and really threw our nice neat view of the solar system out. The astronomy guys at NASA and so on didn't know whether it was a planet, or a comet or an asteroid. It's a small rocky object that orbits at a very odd angle between Saturn and Uranus. It takes 50 years to make a complete orbit, and spends much longer in some signs than others. Chiron is one of a whole bunch of rocky objects, now called "centaurs" - because Chiron was named after the mythical centaur - half man half horse - of Greek mythology. For an article about what all the centaurs mean, check out this article here: http://www.bsa.bristolastrology.net/centaurs.html

Juno is one of the asteroids. Between Mars and Jupiter is the asteroid belt, and there are about 100,000 of these small rocks, so no astrologers use *all* of them! However, some astrologers use the biggest four of them - Juno, Pallas, Ceres and Vesta - and some astrologers use quite a few more as well. Most astrology programs will let you use the "big four". There's an article about the asteroids here: http://www.bsa.bristolastrology.net/asteroid_basics.html

Lilith has a long and interesting mythology. She was Sumerian in origin, but got adapted into Judaism as a woman who was Adam's first wife, before Eve. However, Lilith objected when Adam wanted to be on top during sex - she argued that as they were created together, they were equals. As a punishment for her assertiveness, she was turned into a night demon, and in her fury and obsession now goes round attacking pregnant women and eating babies. So Lilith is the archetypal wronged woman - she is that nature in all of us that represents fury, feeling wronged, the raw untamed feminine, the "inner bitch". She has a bad rap in traditional Judaism, although many Jewish women have adopted her mythology as a feminist story and tried to rehabilitate her. In astrology, there are three Liliths - there's "Dark Moon Lilith" which was another supposed Moon of Earth, which astronomers claimed to have found over 100 years ago. However, it's never been seen since, and isn't used any more. There's an asteroid called Lilith, too, in the asteroid belt. But in astrology when most people say "Lilith" they mean "Black Moon Lilith" (not to be confused with Dark Moon Lilith) which is a mathematical point representing the furthest distance of the Moon to the Earth (mathematical pionts are nothing new - the Moon's Nodes are two such points). However, it seems to have an effect - and many astrologers use it.

Now as for an interpretation - you're not a newbie at astrology, so have a crack at it yourself. There are four points to your Grand Cross - in one corner we have Juno, to do with relationships and monogamous partnerships; in another corner we have Venus, also to do with love, relationships and our values; in another corner we have Jupiter and Black Moon Lilith; and in the final corner, Chiron, the "wounded healer". They're all in Fixed signs, and in the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses - houses to do with self, mother, father and relationships. What sort of issues might crop up? How might someone with this chart view relationships?

[KEishin]

You ask a lot of good questions! I'll start with the easy ones.

Well firstly, Chiron is a planetoid (not quite planet, not quite asteroid) that orbits between Saturn and Uranus. It represents the place in our chart where we need healing (if you're familiar with the myth of Chiron in Greek myth, then you'll understand. If not, look it up! :)) Chiron in an astrology chart shows where people have deep soul wounds and pain associated with those wounds. Every person’s personal “wound” is slightly different. Chiron also being a teacher in myth and astrology teaches us how to work with that wound and integrate it into our lives.

Your Chiron is in Taurus in the 4th house. Based on this, I would say that you are deeply interested in values and those of all of humanity. You are a natural nurturer of others, especially those that needs healing or solace. Emotions are probably the biggest stumbling block you will find to detract from your natural healing abilities in many areas. Your home may be a popular habitant for rather needy people. Keeping your mental and emotional balance is very necessary to your success.

Now Chiron is in the configuration Fluff mentioned earlier along with Juno (an asteroid, Venus, Jupiter and Lilith (an astronomical point). Before I explain a little more about the grand cross, let me explain Lilith. also called the Black Moon, Lilith is the point of the Moon's apogee (point in the orbit farthestst from Earth). It is entirely mathematical - you can't look up in the sky and see Lilith orbiting. In interpretations, Lilith is believed to be a point of instinctive and emotional intelligence, whereby individuals can gain contact with and feel their inner heartfelt truths and soul longings and passions. Since at Lilith the Moon is more distant from the Earth than usual, the Sun gains relative prominence, and Lilith is also associated with the unveiling of illusions, the illumination of self-defeating behavior patterns, the exorcism of self-centred desires, and the coming into closer contact with Earth wisdom. A strongly placed Lilith favours art, creativity, detachment from social norms, emotional sensitivity and vulnerability, an uncompromising will, and unconventional relationships.

Now reading that into the Grand Cross, it screams relationship issues to me. Juno is the Roman goddess of marriage (among other things) who is opposing Lilith. Venus is a no-duh and Chiron tells me you might have strong feelings about love - you are definitely not one to be cheated on. You would kick the butt of your lover. . . :uzi:

A grand cross is all these planets and points pulling on each other. Their energies don't mesh very well, so one gets worked up and sets off all the rest. So you are likely jealous and possessive at times. You would feel betrayed if a lover did something harmful to you. You likely find it hard to give your heart, as you are too afraid of being hurt. It takes an immense amount of trust for you to open up and share yourself with others.

[Krowe]

Now as for an interpretation - you're not a newbie at astrology, so have a crack at it yourself. There are four points to your Grand Cross - in one corner we have Juno, to do with relationships and monogamous partnerships; in another corner we have Venus, also to do with love, relationships and our values; in another corner we have Jupiter and Black Moon Lilith; and in the final corner, Chiron, the "wounded healer". They're all in Fixed signs, and in the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses - houses to do with self, mother, father and relationships. What sort of issues might crop up? How might someone with this chart view relationships?
Ok.. here's my crack at it. Like I said. I'm not a newbie but I am no means an experienced or knowledgeable astrologer so correct me if you spot any flaws, etc...

Juno in Aquarius (1st house) I think means - That I am looking for a partner that is.. well.. different from me on many levels. The fact that Juno shows in Aquarius points me in the direction that the relationship, maybe not the partner, might be what needs to be "different" and knowing that Aquarius is all about space and independance, it makes me believe that the relationship I am looking for will rely heavily on having this space and independance from each other.

Chiron in Taurus (10th house) I think means - Something to do with a wound of neglect, maybe? The 10th house placement puts one of the parents in this formulea.. I would assume my father since he was the one who paid the least attention/etc while my mother was quite nurturing. Anyhoo, I believe it suggests a weakening.. either physically of spiritually. The fact that it is in Taurus, a sign which loves indulgence, I am constantly looking for more and not quite happy with things. The glass is never quite full, perhaps? But Taurus also makes me think that I am happy with what I have when Chiron is placed here because Taurus also denotes physical/materialistic happiness with what you have. I have no idea how this bears on relationships though, except for the fact that it leads me to believe that no matter who I am with I am maybe always looking for something just a little bit more than what they have, althoug I am content to stay with what I have and appreciate it until I find the "next best thing" to continue the cycle...

Venus in Scorpio (4th house) I think means - Ok.. This one is rather straight forward for me. This placement shows me that I am a very dominating and upfront person when it comes to matters of the heart. I am a bit on the jealous and controlling type and I do not take relationships lightly at all. It's an all or nothing thing with this placement, which is in all parts of a relationship whether it be sex, emotions, spirituality, or just plain intellectualism. I do not take lightly to anyone giving anything less than I dom which is everything and when I feel this isn't happening I become very emotionally hurt and will retaliate in kind. The placing of this in the 4th house makes me think that it has something to do with my mother, who is/was a very nurturing and all involved woman in relationships with those she loves. This house also is about "traditions" which makes me think that somehow I learned these behaviours not only by this placement but by the way I was raised watching my mother handle relationships between my father, her children (me and my siblings of course) and any other pertinent people in her life.

Jupiter in Leo (7th house) I think means - Ok.. This one is a doozy for me. It's pretty easy in some respects but quite contradictory in other ways. I see this as meaning that relationships with me are pretty much a one on one thing. Very important factor here though is that it's more in principle than in actually being done. The fact that this is in the 7th house means that it is all about relationships. The fact that it is in Leo means I'm quite extroverted and wanting always to be in the social scene or with many friends around, so the partner would have to be fine with spending a lot of time in those situations... BUT... at the same time, since it's freakin' Jupiter, that means there is probably a lot of one on one time going on also. There is a big emphasis here to idolise and put the partner on a pedestal, but sooner or later reality sets in and the flaws begin to show which leaves me feeling hurt and critical of them.. This leads to me trying to change them to be better, which in some cases can be good if not taken too far, but more often than not creates more problems than it's worth and ultimately destroys the whole of what I originally fell for with the person...

That's my view on it.. I'm not sure if that's what it all means or how I can put all that together concisely, but I'm working on it... And also, I can't figure out anything about this Black Moon Lilith or what bearing it has on my chart and relationships, especially when involved in a Grand Cross. The only thing I see is that it is in the 7th house (Relationships/Leo in my case) and that it possibly means that I will have a very had time with relationships since I am looking for someone who is an equal or more prominant than me, but while I may have all these problems with relationships it seems to also make me a rather charismatic person because it is in Leo...

Soooooo... correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I'm trying to learn and I figure the best way to start is to learn my stuff and then progress outward from there...

Peace!

Krowe

[Fluffmeister]

That's a very good analysis, Krowe; as you say, some of them seem quite obvious but others - especially that Chiron in Taurus in the 10th - don't, and I would have been very hard pressed to come up with a good interpretation for that myself; your interpretation sounds excellent.

I'd also add that "fixed" signs can be quite stubborn - so if there are conflicts, it may be a pattern that's difficult to break out of. As you say, the Venus in Scorpio can be very intense, and the Chiron represents a wound and Lilith can be the fury if you see yourself as "the wronged partner" in a relationship.

The conflict of course is that those squares are difficult to reconcile - Venus in Scorpio can be very possessive and wants to "own" the other person, but as you say Juno in Aquarius needs space and independence. Just that square by itself is a tricky one! I think Jupiter in Leo is a pretty good placement - it can be a bit egotistical and the Lilith being there might make it difficult for you to see the other point of view when you feel hard done by, but it can also be very warm and generous too. The Chiron in Taurus could be a saving grace ultimately. Chiron represents where you're wounded, but also where you can help yourself and others to heal. Chiron is opposite Venus, and in Taurus - Venus's sign. In fact, Venus would much rather be in Taurus, on the opposite side of the chart to where she is, than in Scorpio - so she will "give" to Chiron.

The lesson of the Grand Cross is that you can work with the wound; that you may have a natural tendency to take things personally and carry around a lot of bottled up fury and resentment when relationships go wrong - but that you can ultimately deal with it if you're prepared to embrace your wound. If you're prepared to take the inner journey to "know thyself", you will be a very strong person with a lot to offer.