Is Islam just a cover?

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Osama and his other fellers, supposdely believe that the western world is corrupt (a belief brought by Islam) , thus being one reason it's in the cross heirs of such individuals.

However, the terrorists commit suicide which is a cardinal sin of Islam. It's either that Bin Laden has really brain washed his boys or ..... that Islam is just a cover up. Or maybe both.

Opinions?

[Micaela]

I think that so many people (too many) use their religion, or others, to hurt people. I think Bin Laden is one of these people.

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by paranoid punk
Osama and his other fellers, supposdely believe that the western world is corrupt (a belief brought by Islam) , thus being one reason it's in the cross heirs of such individuals.

However, the terrorists commit suicide which is a cardinal sin of Islam. It's either that Bin Laden has really brain washed his boys or ..... that Islam is just a cover up. or maybe both.

Opinions?

Suicide a cardinal sin of islam? Well, it's been done in Iran, Iraq,
Palestine, Syria, Libya, etc.
Until all patriarchal religions are abolished, we will continue to
see them waving their sticks at each other, each claiming to
have the biggest stick, and their stupidity trying to prove it! :G
The history of patriarchal religions is always starting wars, on one
pretext or another....economics...greed....hatred........etc.
BTW, money is an invention of patriarchs....economics is merely
one way they suppress people....and that is all too evident today,
all over the world.
Paper money was created in the U.S. by Franklin, in the late
18th century.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Apparently it is, although I could be mistaken. I've seen it on various news reports defending Islam religion. My Religion teacher also mentioned it ina discussion we had after the attack.

[silvermoon]

I have heard this from various sources, so forgive if it is a little sketchy........But these suicide terrorist believe that they will go to heaven in the afterlife - paradise in which they are surrounded by virgins and family - for their part in the HOLY war against the EVIL West particularly America........So they believe that what they are doing is right, just and sanctioned by god..........

silvermoon

PS please forgive me if the above is oversimplified or inaccurate in any way

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by silvermoon
I have heard this from various sources, so forgive if it is a little sketchy........But these suicide terrorist believe that they will go to heaven in the afterlife - paradise in which they are surrounded by virgins and family - for their part in the HOLY war against the EVIL West particularly America........So they believe that what they are doing is right, just and sanctioned by god..........

silvermoon

PS please forgive me if the above is oversimplified or inaccurate in any way

Christians are also taught that they will go to "god" if they die in
war....although they are not quite as radical as muslims...

[Lilu]

Well one thing I would wonder is how many of them actually READ? Or if they read, how many actually own the Koran? Some of the biggest misconceptions in Christianity were carried out in the middle ages because people never actually read the Bible, they just believed what the clergy and priests etc told them. So maybe it's a similar matter here, it's the "higher ups" like bin Laden who are lying to them, or covering up the fact that suicide is a sin in the Koran or wherever it's written, and using these people for their own ends.

Just a thought.

Lilu

[Kaylara]

Well, considering that many people in the Middle East live in abject poverty, I would say that reading wasn't very high up on their lists of things to do. Who cares if you can read if you don't know if you will be able to feed your children tomorrow?

Kaylara

[Lilu]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Well, considering that many people in the Middle East live in abject poverty, I would say that reading wasn't very high up on their lists of things to do. Who cares if you can read if you don't know if you will be able to feed your children tomorrow?

Kaylara

Well that's my point.

If you can't READ you can't see for yourself the TRUTH behind what is written in the Koran or any other scripture, therefore you are relying entirely on what someone else says is in there. And they can pretty much tell you anything to get you to do anything in the name of "God", and you can't verify any of it.

And I'm not talking about the regular Afghan people, I'm talking about the people who are willing to die for the terrorists and their cause in the name of "God". Why are they willing to die? Because they have a screwed up idea on how things are meant to be and what is actually the "will of God". And I am wondering if this is just because they are easily brainwashed, or if they truly don't know what is written in the Koran.

Of course who knows? Maybe the promise of their families having food to live off for the rest of their lives is enough to cause someone to commit a sin in the eyes of God? Because like was said earlier - suicide is not considered "good" in the religion of Islam.

Lilu

[Autumn Gemini]

I'm sorry, I just don't consider dying in the name of ANY god overly impressive or a logical way to get into Heaven. I like my life....even if it does suck big time right now. And taking out lots of people who have done nothing to you......that is just so very wrong. I don't care if it is "jihad", its just evil. Sorry, after 2 am here. My brain is only half functioning. Just my manic-depressive ramblings. :) Hell, if the whole bipolar thing hasn't convinved me to commit suicide I'm not doing it in the name of religion! LOL

[talamh]

i think it is very very important to distinguish between the religion of Islam, and terrorist activities that are carried out by people who are Islamic. Islam is a peaceful religion. So is Christianity. As i heard an Islamic cleric point out in a radio interview, when people talk about Timothy McVae who was convicted and killed for the Oklahoma City bombing, no one identifies him as a "Christian terrorist". But people do talk about "Islamic terrorists".

And please remember that down through the ages, people have marched into battle against each other with armies and clerics on both sides claiming that "God is with us... He's on our side". That is how both Christian and Muslim can subscribe to a religion that holds sacred the value and sanctity of life, yet can still kill in the name of their God. (Remember the Crusades) And to be fair, Mystique, people have killed and still kill in the name of the Goddess as well.

My point is , that while religion is divinely inspired, it is still a creature of mortal activity and is subject to human weaknesses and manipulation... All religions have been used for political means. bb talamh

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Mystique
Suicide a cardinal sin of islam? Well, it's been done in Iran, Iraq,
Palestine, Syria, Libya, etc.
Until all patriarchal religions are abolished, we will continue to
see them waving their sticks at each other, each claiming to
have the biggest stick, and their stupidity trying to prove it! :G
The history of patriarchal religions is always starting wars, on one
pretext or another....economics...greed....hatred........etc.
BTW, money is an invention of patriarchs....economics is merely
one way they suppress people....and that is all too evident today,
all over the world.
Paper money was created in the U.S. by Franklin, in the late
18th century.

Yes! Let's abolish all "Patriarchal Religions"!!!

Were is that Dahli Lama guy hiding again? India or something? I'm going to catch the next carrier over, and CAP HIS PATRIARCHAL ASS!!! We will never be free until all male religious leaders are dead! And money. Money's just their tool to oppress us. That whole "balanced exchange for goods and services" thing was just a front! Ha ha, we fooled you good!

And paper money did make it's debut back then, but for a long time (until the 1880's or so) it was backed by gold. You could walk to the bank, hand them some paper and get a handful of gold, until the gold standard was abolished. "The Wizard of Oz" by Carroll was an allegory for that whole movement... whether to back US dollars with Gold or Silver, or nothing at all. Dorothy wore shoes of silver down a gold brick road to a city (DC) where everyone saw through green (money) lenses... heh... in the end, Silver saved the day by taking Dorothy home. But please, do go on about how the Wizard guy was using economics to suppress the good people of Oz.

- Ill

[Danustouch]

Understanding the Jihad is a very delicate thing. Jihad is a Holy War. Yes. It can be used to fight ones own inner battles, or it can be used to correct injustice. By invoking the word.."Jihad" they are invoking images of freedom fighters, and Justice Fighters. But....Muhammad set down VERY strict laws about how a Jihad was supposed to be carried out. Here are some of the rules...

1) NEVER kill a woman
2)NEVER kill children
3)DO NOT TARGET BUILDINGS
4) Do not kill an unarmed soldier
5) Do not target a place of worship
6) Do not destroy a tree that has ONE LIVING LEAF still on it.

These rules, are present in the guidelines for holy jihad. In addition..there is a verse in the Quran, stating that to Kill ONE human being, is to kill ALL of humanity.

I am sure that many of Osama's followers DO read the quran. They've found copies of the Quran present in some of the Terrorists dwellings, etc.

The problem is, these are fundamentalists. These are Radicals. And just like Christian religions have their fundamentalists, and radicals, who misinterpret quotes, or otherwise find "Differen't" quotes to support their beliefs, so do the Muslims.

In other words...we hear in the Old Testament, of the bible, that to "Spare the Rod is to spoil the child". But in the New Testament, Jesus says..."Suffer the little ones to come unto me. If any one harms one of these little ones who believe in me, it is better to have a millstone tied around his neck and to be thrown into the ocean".

We hear in the Bible, that God is a vengeful God. But then we hear..."God is Love".

So you see...ANY religion, can be interpreted in ANY way. It can be perverted in the minds, twisted, and used to support anything you WANT it to say. So...imo...it's not that these people are ignorant. It's not that they are illiterate. Its that there is a sickness in the Followers of Osamas' souls, that makes them WANT to see these disasters. They were in the afghani russian war, and saw friends killed. They saw their villages starve, after the US withdrew their support. They saw their kid sister run off to the US to become a topless dancer...whatever. They are angry..they are hurt...and so they become easy victims, to those who seek absolute power (namely...Osama).

One thing I heard discussed last night, is that if Muslim Children, are teased, and humiliated on the playgrounds, or in school...that plants the seed, for the future generations of terrorists. So true.

Anyway..just some random thoughts.

[Illuminatus]

The sad truth is that all Religions are defined almost entirely by their most extreme branch.

The raving baptist assails us on the street, and they set the tone for EVERYONE's perception of baptism, and effectively gives a bad name for the entire group.

Likewise, a bunch of bad Islamic apples kill a lot of people, and everyone assumes the worst about all Islamics.

Now I am a Jew, by heratige at least, and I sure as hell don't want to be judged by those nutty hassidim in Deal who forge signatures in letters to local papers with the names of town officials, claiming that they back their initiative to put a rope sidewalk around an entire neighborhood during some weird holy holiday. They're nuts, and worse than that they're jerks. But what can you do? Just set a good precident yourself, and hope that the damage done to your organization by its extreme members is minimized.

- Ill

[Swanspirit]

and the followers Of Osama Bin laden are developmentally where the Christians were during the Crusades when they went to rescue the "Holy Land " from the INFIDELS and justified killing men women and children with the idea that they were serving the ONE TRUE GOD......
I think the Christians may have used the term
holy war" and the Crusades are still gorified,
in legend, song, and myth.....
this might be a bit close to home??
This entire era has been romanticised , and rebirthed even in popular pagan art .... using the art of the Pre-Raphaelites.......
Even women in that art- era had categories.... the "Good" woman.... as homemeaker the unavailable or saintly woman in the convent .... and the Sorceress or Witch.....
So we have our legacy of continuing to honor
Knighthood ...... men who took the lives of innocent men women and children in a HOLY WAR .....
Knights had a code of honor too ......it just didnt apply to the INFIDELS ........
and what do the terrorists call us but infidels.....
Interesting juxtaposition .....
Love and light
Swannie

[Swanspirit]

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Love and Light
Swannie

[threenorns]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
and the followers Of Osama Bin laden are developmentally where the Christians were during the Crusades when they went to rescue the "Holy Land " from the INFIDELS and justified killing men women and children with the idea that they were serving the ONE TRUE GOD......
I think the Christians may have used the term
holy war" and the Crusades are still gorified,
in legend, song, and myth.....
this might be a bit close to home??
This entire era has been romanticised , and rebirthed even in popular pagan art .... using the art of the Pre-Raphaelites.......
Even women in that art- era had categories.... the "Good" woman.... as homemeaker the unavailable or saintly woman in the convent .... and the Sorceress or Witch.....
So we have our legacy of continuing to honor
Knighthood ...... men who took the lives of innocent men women and children in a HOLY WAR .....
Knights had a code of honor too ......it just didnt apply to the INFIDELS ........
and what do the terrorists call us but infidels.....
Interesting juxtaposition .....
Love and light
Swannie


that's a tad simplified: the "good" woman was also the loving, devoted, virtuous wife who stayed behind and held the family together while her husband was fulfilling his duty to Crown and King in a cause his religious upbringing told him was just.

the part that's glorified in pre-raphaelite art is the Code of Chivalry which, oddly enough, reads pretty much like the code of jihad as explained above.

essentially, islam or christian or any other religion: the rules are all the same, but the Management Committee has other ideas that usually involve pockets with thicker linings.

a little-known purpose of the crusades and other such military exercises was to ease economic pressure on a population -- by getting rid of the surplus population of able-bodied men, there was enough food to go around, ppl in charge could be kept younger and more impressionable, and properties could be inherited by women who were therefore under the authority of the Crown and could be dispensed where they would benefit the Crown the most. needless to say, all this has NOTHING to do with religion or faith of any kind, so shouldn't be mixed up with it.

[yemayasdaughter]

It is my belief that when a person is fanatical about something, and decide that they will use religion to back up their fanaticism (sp.?) they will find something in their religious text to perpetuate their cause. And this is not only limited to Islam.

Think about it. In these here United States... The Bible was quoted to defend slavery, to defend the oppression of women, to defend the oppression of people that were of different races, and religions, even to defend gay bashing and other hate crimes. Is it no wonder the KKK loves to burn crosses? Dont they love to say that African - Americans are the "cursed sons of Ham"?

Islam is a religion of peace. This group of people are a disgrace to Allah, much like the Warlock, or "oath-breaker" of the Old Faith.