Why Wiccans Suck...

[Kaylara]

Please check out this site, and tell me your opinion on it. http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/4nongoths/index.html

Kaylara

[bluecat]

I thought it was a HOOT!

I am usually very tolerant and very easy going, but I find those ID'd as Fluffy Bunnies to be very irritating. And the CHURCH AND SCHOOL of Wicca is friggin' scarey.

BlueCat

[Shatav]

Well, everyone has an opinion and is allowed it, I suppose. But in my opinion we all have to start somewhere. I did all the stuff he calls "fluffy" when I first started. That doesn't mean that now I haven't learned, delved and discovered more on my own since then, and doesn't mean that these people he is looking down on cannot either. I admit, I have my days where I bash the "crystal dolphin worshippers", as I term them, but I don't devote a whole aspect of my life, and so much negativity to putting it in print and therefore dwelling on it. There's enough negativity out there for everyone, why add to it? Why not instead encourage these people the author sees as "fluffy" to help them be more "serious". It's all relative anyway, I suppose. It's the difference between being insulting and helpful, in my eyes. The author comes off very insulting and angry and intollerant...why would anyone waste their time even trying to listen to what they have to say? There are other ways to communicate.

[mol]

The easiest way to communicate is by not saying anything at all sometimes.

I think that the 'fluffy bunnies' have every right be just that...

Some people in their Path do not choose to embrace the Darkness at all. This is fine. As every Path is different of course.

Eaglewolf and I pondered this site a few days ago...and it seemed that we agreed that while this Person has deemed all the 'fluffy' stuff as a fad and Not Wiccan, he/she has, in fact, started a new fad.

My point. It doesnt matter what anyone else says about your Path. Correcting historical mistakes...maybe...but saying that something isnt correct that deals with a persons own personal choice is their spirituality..is...well...

Cant think of a good word here...maybe someone can help me out.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Please check out this site, and tell me your opinion on it.

I actually have the page linked from my RantsNRaves page. :D

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Shatav
Well, everyone has an opinion and is allowed it, I suppose. But in my opinion we all have to start somewhere.

Right, but you're going from the assumption that all fluffies are newbies, who can be "taught better", which isn't the case. I know people who've been in the Craft longer than I have, who are older than me (way older), who make Silver Ravenwolf look Dark.

[bluecat]

I apologize if I offended you Shatav, but I do not apologize for how I feel about certain folks who just follow a trend or want to be cool. For those who stick it out especially when the going gets tough, I stand up and applaud, as long as they don't try and tell me that their way is the only way.

BlueCat

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by mol
It doesnt matter what anyone else says about your Path. Correcting historical mistakes...maybe...but saying that something isnt correct that deals with a persons own personal choice is their spirituality..is...well...

Censorship? Against our human rights? Blasphemous? Crazy? Silly? Wrong? ....

[mol]

My only point...is that this Person is not a hero for what has been said.

And that elder 'fluffies' are probably pretty happy living their lives.

[mol]

Originally posted by Mairwen


Censorship? Against our human rights? Blasphemous? Crazy? Silly? Wrong? ....

:D

[bluecat]

I agree with Mol when he says this person is not a hero for what they have done or said. I am by no means reversing any thing I have said previously on this subject. I do not purport to be any sort of master pagan or any other such thing and believe that elder fluffies do lead long and happy lives. My words were directed primarily to the flavor of the week fluffies who have read that one book or article and discover they can shock people with a declaration of witchcraft because they think it is a cool thing to do.

I offer a glass of lemonade to all and let them drink it as they will.

Steve

[Mairwen]

I don't know.

I saw Mol's reply (:D), and I fell out of my chair from laughing so hard!

[mol]

Originally posted by Mairwen
I don't know.

I saw Mol's reply (:D), and I fell out of my chair from laughing so hard!

:D :p :D

[Semele]

I think it is very funny, but I also laugh at fat jokes, blond jokes, gay jokes.... most things that are funny are making fun of something. I didn't take offense at it but I rarely do...fluffy as I am!!!

BTW... I seriously thought it was EW's work!!!

:bigredgri

Semele

[Twig]

I went through a war on another site because I and others on it were considered fluffbunnies by a group of people that attacked us for no other reason than that. It taught me a lot about us so called fluff bunnies and can be scary in its' conotations.

After that I came to the conclusion that I ALWAYS will be considered one because I follow the Path of Peace exclusively. Yes, it's all "love,light and sparkles" for me and some people HATE it. But the other side of the coin is this. I have seen horrors that a lot of people can't imagine. An example? I have held a dying gunshot victim the day after christmas and heard his confession right before he died. That was the point I said screw all this hatred there has to be a better way.

I know people that are VERY high magickians yet still considered FBs because they don't parade this knowledge to the public and they pursue the Path of Peace themselves.

In summery. take that sight with a half grain of salt and call me in the morning. I give it a grade of "F" for intolerance to others paths.
Peace,
Twig

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Please check out this site, and tell me your opinion on it. http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/4nongoths/index.html

Kaylara


Mixed. As a celtic reconstructionist type I do prefer the history and some of the 'conventional wisdom' prevalent about wicca and witchcraft is downright irritating. On the other hand, this person also exhibits the same 'my way or the highway' attitude s/he professes to hate in those being criticized. On the third hand :D, the references, sources and links are good, I've just seen the magic links myself recently because my senior druid has set me to studying chaos magic and these are the same sources she recommended. On the fourth hand some of the links were irritating too--one on Fam Trads insisted Irish education was superior to American or Aussie education systems, I beg to differ since my daughter earned an IB diploma in public high school. That is a European degree administered from Geneva. That site's stuff can be just as narrow-minded and chauvinistic as the practices they're criticizing. And whoever it is doesn't seem to understand teenagers too well..........and and and....it is a thought-provoking page.......

Maggie

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Twig
After that I came to the conclusion that I ALWAYS will be considered one because I follow the Path of Peace exclusively. Yes, it's all "love,light and sparkles" for me and some people HATE it. But the other side of the coin is this. I have seen horrors that a lot of people can't imagine. An example? I have held a dying gunshot victim the day after christmas and heard his confession right before he died. That was the point I said screw all this hatred there has to be a better way.

Twig

Go for it, Twig. I was an EMT for years trying to keep people from dying, and tend to be a pessimist. However, I hate the term fluff bunny, won't use it, and don't automatically assume that someone who doesn't dwell on the dark side doesn't have reasons for doing so. Besides, it's hardly a viewpoint unique to paganism, and I don't understand the fuss about it. All religions have varying degrees of devotion and attitudes, why should paganism be any different?

Maggie

[bluecat]

I have been taking stock of what has been going on as well as some interesting undercurrent with this topic. I find it to bring out many things with folks (myself included) and it shows that we are indeed a widely diverse community and I find that to be very refreshing. It would be no good to have a community where everyone was the same.

It appears that we have everyone from Curmudgeons, like myself, to Fluffy Bunnies, as Twig self-proclaims. This is very good and healthy and it's what makes a good community. We all have a great deal to learn from each other. I know I am a sort of a self-proclaimed bunny-not-liker, but as I said before that is for the "FLAVOR of the DAY" sort and those who think it's a neat thing to tell folks you are a witch.

I take my beliefs very seriously and sometimes a bit too seriously and from time to time stick my foot in my mouth, but hey I suppose that is just me. This is a subject that often brings out my darker side because of my feelings on the subject.

I am not saying I don't respect FB's because respect for others is part of my basic belief, it's just that I find some of these folks very irritating. And not to worry I am even handed with my disdain of certain folks because there are also those wannabees out there who think it is cool to be on the dark sidee of the path and they get off on the sheer mean things that they think that path allows, which in reality it does not.

Well that is all of the shoe leather I can chew on for now.

BlueCat

[Armitage]

I agree with Twig...
If it makes someone happy to be that way, let them. I'm personally too fascinated with the darker bent on things to be that way, but I'm never going to devote all my time to that, either. There's so much more to life and it's balance. There's also a huge difference between a positive person and a shallow one, and it seems that to be 'cool' now, you have to equate happiness with stupidity or complacency, and therefore be miserable. Those people on that site might as well go find a Left Hand trad to join up with.

[Amora]

This girl is one very unhappy person who makes herslf feel better and more intelligent by putting down others. I actually feel sorry for her. Not to mention the fact that everyone else did, she's delusional and hilarious.

[Rosabelle]

hi everyone
did you know that humans share 98% DNA with chimps, but we also share 50% with a banana. hehe (i got that off the wall of my science lab at school )

i did the gender test and they said i was as man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i am definitely not a man!!!! (i don't think) (wait just let me check.............................um................................................................ ...........................yep, i'm definitely a girl!!..................................or some one in the world is a very good plastic seargent)
Rosabelle

[mol]

Originally posted by Rosabelle
hi everyone
did you know that humans share 98% DNA with chimps, but we also share 50% with a banana. hehe (i got that off the wall of my science lab at school )

i did the gender test and they said i was as man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i am definitely not a man!!!! (i don't think) (wait just let me check.............................um................................................................ ...........................yep, i'm definitely a girl!!..................................or some one in the world is a very good plastic seargent)
Rosabelle

:D

Wrong topic Rosy! Hehehe...

[Cadarn]

its just someones web site its not worth getting excited about people think or say what they want to say.its what you think and feel about wicca and yourself that matters.

[Shatav]

Originally posted by Mairwen


Right, but you're going from the assumption that all fluffies are newbies, who can be "taught better", which isn't the case. I know people who've been in the Craft longer than I have, who are older than me (way older), who make Silver Ravenwolf look Dark.

Ah, you're quite correct. My bad. ;) And I've met many of them. I've just found that the majority of what the author was referring to as "fluffy bunnies" are newbies, because of certain traits they pointed out, such as quoting only certain books and such.

[Silverwitch]

The only thing I'm intolerant about is intolerance!! Me, I'm pretty dark, but know lots of great fluffy bunnies. Indeed my entry for the "Pagan Barbie Competition" (which tells you the tone of the forthcoming PF Conference), is Fluffy Bunny Barbie. A higher compliment hath no man! (Or is that woman - d*** that Gender Test!)
BB Silverwitch

[gunner]

Originally posted by mol
The easiest way to communicate is by not saying anything at all sometimes.

I think that the 'fluffy bunnies' have every right be just that...

Some people in their Path do not choose to embrace the Darkness at all. This is fine. As every Path is different of course.

Eaglewolf and I pondered this site a few days ago...and it seemed that we agreed that while this Person has deemed all the 'fluffy' stuff as a fad and Not Wiccan, he/she has, in fact, started a new fad.

My point. It doesnt matter what anyone else says about your Path. Correcting historical mistakes...maybe...but saying that something isnt correct that deals with a persons own personal choice is their
spirituality..is...well...

Cant think of a good word here...maybe someone can help me out.

i think the word you're looking for might be "arrogant"?

[Shatav]

Originally posted by bluecat

It appears that we have everyone from Curmudgeons, like myself, to Fluffy Bunnies, as Twig self-proclaims. This is very good and healthy and it's what makes a good community. We all have a great deal to learn from each other.

You can say that two times! :D

[Tigerwallah]

I just think that this person needed to vent anger. I personally don't take it seriously. My path is between me and my Goddess, and beyond the scrutiny of any mortal.

[mythril]

Your right Tigerwallah!

Some people go to deep into some things which arent important,
why dont they just live and be happy,
there is so much more to life !

[Twig]

But I'll defend their right to call me a tree-hugging,flower munching fluffbunny till the day I die!!!
Peace,
Twig

[mythril]

right on twig!

[Kaylara]

Yeah! You gotta fight.... For your rights... Fluff Bunnies! (LOL) Couldn't resist! I will do the same Twig!

Kaylara

[gunner]

ooooohraah! twig

[bluecat]

Originally posted by Twig
But I'll defend their right to call me a tree-hugging,flower munching fluffbunny till the day I die!!!
Peace,
Twig

That's what we are about and the diversity that we all bring is not only good for the community, but good for everyone. The freedom of ideas and expression is one of those many things that many folks have placed their lives on the line for, many paying the ultimate price they could pay in this lifetime.

I think it would really bite if we were all the same, like some folks would like us to be (referring to the guy in mol's slightly humorous post).

Heh, bunnies got teeth!

Steve

[Earth Walker]

I am a pagan, and I follow the tradition of the
Great Goddess faithfully.
Have any of you read the following books?

When God Was A Woman by Merlin Stone
Ancient Mirrors of Womanhood by Merlin Stone
The Holy Book Of Women's Mysteries by Zsuzsunna Budapest.

[Dextra]

Ok, I'll admit it, I've been a bit of a bunny-basher in the yahoo chat rooms. But, in my own defense, I've only bashed those that tend to talk out of their rear-ends, or those that claim to know EVERYTHING and barely know how to spell what they are talking about. That is my own personal definition of a "fluffy bunny". Not necessarily those who follow the path of goodness and light, just those wannabes that think that since they watched "The Craft" and "Charmed" that they are just as powerful as someone who devoted years of study and practice to the craft.
And I think when anyone first gets into paganism (in any form), we all go through our stage of what the author calls "fluffy." That's the stage where we're fascinated by everything and are excited about what we do and are wanting to share our newfound wisdom with everyone. I don't think it's a bad thing. I know I went through my fluffy phase, and after annoying scores of people :D, I'm ok now.

[Tigerwallah]

Mystique, I have read When God Was A Woman by Merlin Stone (In fact it is on my desk as I type). I didn't realize she had another book published. Recently, I noticed an article in my local newspaper regarding the discovery of an ancient burial site in Mesopotamia that totally supported her writing. Relieved that I am not the only one on the planet who has read this book.

By the way - Merry Meet!!!

[gunner]

i've got a suggestion, i've seen the term "fluffy bunny" applied here for the new and enthusiastic witch/wiccan and it amuses me but one way or another we all go through the f.b. stage. to differentiate between our happy enthusiastic "fluffy bunnies" and the "flavor of the month 'witches'" i've heard the term "whoopee witch", perhaps this might fit the "poseurs" while leaving our fluffy bunnies to learn and grow as they like?

[Mairwen]

LMAO! :D Whoopee Witch! *snicker!*

[Shatav]

WHOOPEE! I'm a witch!

Or is it...Poot! (when sitting on a small circular rubber toy) I'm a witch.

:D

[sherry]

with all of this FLUFFY BUNNY talk there still is no response from him!! I had never heard the term until he posted it a couple of months ago.
Having been borne into it and not understanding the Path or what you can do with it until the last few years
I do consider myself new at it and I read everything I can get my hands on. I do hope that I never get to the point that I feel I have learned all I can.
So for now if Bluecat would just hide my cunningham books for me in the closet with his track lighting (hehe)

[gunner]

no worries sherry, i've been around a loooong time and i sure don't know it all. you only stop learning when you hit room temperature

[mol]

Maybe this Community should coin a new term...other than fluffies...for a 'poser Pagan' ? Hehe...

How about..

Flavo-Witch?

:D

[Red Dragon]

Gee I dunno, I read this and it seems just a trifle, sarcastic, maybe even tongue in cheek??? I think this guy is having you on, although he does make some (shudder) valid points about what is wrong with wicca. and personally I agree with some of them. (Sorry EW). I think overall you can't take this site seriously, Hee hee. ;)

[Witchbourne]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Please check out this site, and tell me your opinion on it. http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/4nongoths/index.html

Kaylara


*laughs at the person who created that site....since the
person talked about how the person hated the way
some are...and by doing that are as hatefull as where
the hate started from....::Smiles::...

i dont hate anyone and i let everyone do as they want
to do things since i believe there are no right or wrong
way to do things as long as it comes from ones inner
and heart......

one more thing is that i cant see a point to that persons
point since it was a pointless thing to remark on and it
make me feel like that person have not find any trueth
within him/herself...becouse if this peron hade then this
person would not complain about others ways and believe's.....

Blessed be*

[Earth Walker]

Hi Tigerwallah,

I was watching a program on The Learning Channel
last night, and it appears that some men are waking
up to the fact that many of the ancient cities unearthed
and recently discovered are those of the matriarchal
societies. They know understand that Stonehendge
was built by the matriarchs, however they still have
trouble giving the full credit to women, that men
still controlled things. Male insecurity...what can a
woman say? :rolleyes: ;)

[Twig]

Men are NOT insecure! If you don't belive me....ask my mommy :p Heheheheh
Peace,
Twig

[Tigerwallah]

Mystique, I'm beginning to believe that it isn't all men, just all Jewish, Muslem and Christian men (and even the women).

Let's face it, men had it better when we were in charge. Life was much more bohemian. There was that little matter of the King who was sacrificed, but hey, hundreds of thousands of men were killed during the crusades alone. Moses is reported in the bible to have gone into every town and village between Egypt and the holy land killing everyone who breathed, in order to spread the word of Yaweh (makes the Mormons and Jahova's conversion efforts look lazy). Compared to that, pagan men were in much less danger of suffering under pagan rule than any of those male dominated religions.

Well, at least the archeologists are finding the evidence. Some day it might sink in.

I can't tell you how happy :D it makes me to know someone else read that book. It was one of those things that you read and it is more like being reminded of something you knew all along.

Twig, I looooooooooooove your icon!!!! No man with insecurities would ever have a little worm as his icon. ;)

[Tigerwallah]

So, you heard about the page and showed up to tell me off?

Then you are part of the problem.

Being a Wiccan makes you feel Special, eh? Well shove your pride back down your throat, kids! This is your wake-up call.

I just wanted to add that this person is obviously getting off on the provocation. It's pretty obvious that he/she is trying to feel powerful. He wants to get a reaction too much. He'd go away if everyone ignored him. He's like a ghost, the more attention you give it, the more powerful it gets.

[sherry]

if women were in charge there would be no war we would be face to face ready for battle notice the shoes of our opponents and ask were she got them !! things would be much calmer LOL

[Tigerwallah]

LOL, but what if she said you looked fat in your uniform?
WWIII

[bluecat]

Hmmm ... would you wear white shoes to battle after Labor Day?

[sherry]

i wouldnt IT IS JUST NOT DONE !!!!
what were you thinking !!!

[bluecat]

Well, I suppose, I wasn't ...

[gunner]

Originally posted by Tigerwallah
So, you heard about the page and showed up to tell me off?

Then you are part of the problem.

Being a Wiccan makes you feel Special, eh? Well shove your pride back down your throat, kids! This is your wake-up call.

I just wanted to add that this person is obviously getting off on the provocation. It's pretty obvious that he/she is trying to feel powerful. He wants to get a reaction too much. He'd go away if everyone ignored him. He's like a ghost, the more attention you give it, the more powerful it gets.

exactly tigerwallah, that's why i left no comment there

[Jazzmine]

I have to work everyday with a woman that just oozes negativity. She never says anything nice and is always hateful. Sometimes I feel she is infecting others with negativity, like me. These kind of people are very hard to take and it's very sad. So much of their lives wasted on negative thoughts and behavior. They must be absolutely miserable. I have to admit though that she brings out the worst in me also. I try my best to ignore her meanness, but sometimes its just too much. So, I believe that this person on that site is the same kind of person as the lady I work with and should just be ignored.

[Twig]

Ignore who? Heheheh

[Earth Walker]

I know that there are some good men, but most men,
like Duhmbya :G Stockwell Day :smash: Vicente Fox
:crazy: and Pauline Hanson :rolleyes: yes, even a
woman can be depraved :eek: need to have their
power stripped away, and shown what humility means.

[Earth Walker]

:bigredgri I recently finished a 16 page article,
entitled: A Herstory Of Patriarchy. :)
:cool: If anyone would like a copy, via snail-mail,
write to me at: Ms. Sabrina Dawn Heiberg
415 Alexander St., Apt. # 414
Vancouver, B.C. V6A 4G6
Canada
:D :D

[eaglewolf]

...sorry for not telling anyone, aka mol...

Why Wiccans Suck?

My only complaint...

Why Wiccans?

I am sure there are Flavo-Dragons, Whoopie-Druids, Fulffy-Fundies, and Whack-Lefties as well...

Cornering Wiccans is, well, arrogant and ignorant.

~ew

Hey Red - No need to apologize, I point fingers at these people all of the time... my only gripe here is, I point fingers at other Paths too, and I KNOW I am not alone. ;)

[Yvonne Belisle]

Welcome back Eaglewolf we've missed your snappy replies.

[mol]

Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
Welcome back Eaglewolf we've missed your snappy replies.

Emphasis on the 'snappy' ! :meanface:

:D

[eaglewolf]

Is that "snappy" or snippy?

~ew

[mol]

Originally posted by eaglewolf
Is that "snappy" or snippy?

~ew

Use your imagination...

:D

[gunner]

snippy or snappy, welcome back ew

[eaglewolf]

Originally posted by gunner
snippy or snappy, welcome back ew

'Tis good to be back...

~ew, who doesn't mind being called snippy, for sometimes he is so~

[Wizard]

Wonders what these guys have been on!!!!!!!. Well everybody is entitiled to their own opinion, but like most of us,, to mislead someone who is just starting is way out of order.
I personaly just ignore such things, but hey fluffy bunnies!!!!!!!!! oh,, nice,,, shame they aint found anyway which will show them the TRUE ways,, but hey,, if i see a fluffy bunny,, i will come back and tell you all.

[Litha]

Originally posted by Mystique :

I was watching a program on The Learning Channel
last night, and it appears that some men are waking
up to the fact that many of the ancient cities unearthed
and recently discovered are those of the matriarchal
societies. They know understand that Stonehendge
was built by the matriarchs, however they still have
trouble giving the full credit to women, that men
still controlled things.

I'm attaching this fab news item about the earliest known author; it speaks to what you've written above:

March 8, 2001 —
Scholars of Sumerian language and history
have translated three poems composed by
the world's first known author, a woman
named Enheduanna, who wrote of her admiration — and irritation —toward Inanna, goddess of Venus.


The 4,000-year-old poems, scripted on clay tablets, had been translated in academic journals, but the new translation, included in the book Inanna, Lady of Largest Heart (University of Texas Press, Austin)
makes the ancient text available to a wide audience.

Enheduanna held the most important religious office in Sumer — high priestess at Ur.

The beginning of the third poem exemplifies her conflicted feelings about Inanna.

Queen of all given powers
unveiled clear light
unfailing woman wearing brilliance
cherished in heaven and earth
chosen, sanctified in heaven
you
grand in your adornments
crowned with your beloved goodness
rightfully you are High Priestess
your hands seize the seven fixed powers
my queen of fundamental forces
guardian of essential cosmic sources
you lift up the elements
bind them to your hands
gather in powers
press them to your breast
vicious dragon you spew
venom poisons the land
like the storm god you howl
grain wilts on the ground
swollen flood rushing down the mountain
you are Inanna
supreme in heaven and earth...

Betty DeShong Meador, a Berkeley, California, Jungian analyst, translated the poems with the help of University of California at Berkeley Sumerian linguist Daniel Foxvog and Anne Kilmer, professor of
assyriology.

According to Meador, not only was Enheduanna the first named author in history, but she also was one of the world's earliest writers, working only 300 years after written language had evolved in Sumer, now southern
Iraq.

As daughter of King Sargon, a militaristic leader who built a vast empire, Enheduanna had a number of earthly duties.

"She lived at a temple located near the present day Persian Gulf," said Meador. "Recent excavations tell us it was a thriving community with butchers, bakers and brewers. Enheduanna managed agriculture at the
temple and oversaw the local fishing industry."

Her position as high priestess, however, overshadowed such pursuits.

"Enheduanna was the first theologian in the world," said Meador. "Her writings present a multi-faceted model of women as powerful, assertive,
sexual and priestly. Many of Inanna's qualities foreshadow the powers of the Hebrew god Yahweh in the Old Testament."

Laurie Pearce, a researcher in the department of Near Eastern Studies at U.C. Berkeley, said, "Inanna is the female deity par excellence in the ancient Mesopotamian civilization. In translating the poetry of
Enheduanna from its original Sumerian, Dr. Meador has rendered accessible to the modern reader a rich, elegant literary corpus."

Meador next plans to translate 42 temple hymns attributed to Enheduanna.

[Ayla]

I've had this on my favourites for ages, some of the sites on there are incredibly well thought out and written.

Love & Hugs,
http://ayla.brinkster.net/ayla/images/signatureT.gif

[Wizard]

Agrees with Litha tyo a point, but your remark could be looked upon as "sexist", but unfortunately you are right!!!!. Although many of us "men" have always known that women have the power, but at least we like to think we hav control. Looking back on things, it must have been the same for our ancestors also.
So, just to enlighten you to a fact that not all men have a power thing towards woment, but the highest respect for everyone.
Good point though.

[Earth Walker]

When I criticize the patriarchal system, I do not
include all men, for there are many decent men,
and men have been victimized as well. :G
However, most men lack an awareness to know that
they are victims of patriarchy. :confused:
:sunny: :cool:

[eaglewolf]

Sounds like it is time for a new web site...

Why Men Suck

I have no problem with Manhood.
It's the Men I can't stand.*

This is beginning to sound interestingly similar to the views found on the web site which started this thread.

~ew

[Kaylara]

Both Men and Women suck, when they want to! But, both Men and Women are wonderful. We have our differences, but we are equal. I try not to look at a few bad men, or their actions, and think that all men are like that. The same goes with women. Don't judge people by the worst, take it on an individual basis. For example, I know that Eaglewolf and Mol are both wonderful caring men, Semele and Scarlet are lucky to have found such wonderful partners. I know that the majority of people on this site are wonderful people, and their gender doesn't matter because of how wonderful they are!

Kaylara

[Witchbourne]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Both Men and Women suck, when they want to! But, both Men and Women are wonderful. We have our differences, but we are equal. I try not to look at a few bad men, or their actions, and think that all men are like that. The same goes with women. Don't judge people by the worst, take it on an individual basis. For example, I know that Eaglewolf and Mol are both wonderful caring men, Semele and Scarlet are lucky to have found such wonderful partners. I know that the majority of people on this site are wonderful people, and their gender doesn't matter because of how wonderful they are!

Kaylara

I liked your words and they are so true.....

i totaly agree.....

Blessed be*

[mythril]

Ive been reading all of your arguments and this is my opinion:

In truth, we are all spiritual beings who have no gender in spirit. But we are a combination of male and female energies , after all that is how the world was created (i think).
It is sad that most people dont realise that it is only our physical appearence which then influences our physical mind which leads to gender sepparation.

Anyway, just a thought! :)

[Wizard]

Sheesh,,,, aint comenting anymore on this subject,,,, as a newbie i can understand the issues and agree that many ppl have their different ways, but after all said and done,, we are here for all of us, irespective of gender, so hey, the the wizard stands down

[eaglewolf]

No need to stand down Wizard...

There was nothing harsh said, and though posts may become confusing at times, we are all trying to be helpful, and sometimes even funny.

Don't feel bad, and don't back away... your opinion is a very positive one, and should not be hidden.

Welcome to the community! It takes some getting used to the way everyone talks around here, but once you get to know us, you will take less offense to what people say ;)

Welcome!!

~ew, who is very tired and just knows that post did not come out right~ :p

[Tigerwallah]

I agree with you in concept, but not in practice. Men and women often think and act so differently that I often have a hard time believing we are of the same species.

I do believe, however, that we are two different halves of a whole - the creative and destructive, the emotional and the practical, etc. I believe that yin and yang is a perfect illustration of this - where both halves are the opposite of the other with each containing a small amount of the other.

I do believe our souls are the same, however, this is one case where I think the vehicle we are in effects our behavior. Male hormones and female hormones deffinately make us different. Last year, a group of young men( that grew to nearly 100 in size) went on a rampage at the Peurto Rican Day Celebration in NYC. They ran through the park stripping and molesting every young woman in their path. This was not organized and most of these men didn't even know eachother. They were just carried away by the excitement and feeling of power. This is an illustration of behavior not shared by women - just as obsessing over window treatments is a behavior men do not usually indulge in. Our destination is the same, but our paths are not.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Tigerwallah
I agree with you in concept, but not in practice. Men and women often think and act so differently that I often have a hard time believing we are of the same species.

I do believe, however, that we are two different halves of a whole - the creative and destructive, the emotional and the practical, etc. I believe that yin and yang is a perfect illustration of this - where both halves are the opposite of the other with each containing a small amount of the other.



Exactly! :sunny:

Maggie

[Jazzmine]

I have to say something here. If you have ever been to a Chipendales strip bar, you would not be saying that women don't act that way. I've seen women older than dirt get all grabby at those men. LMAO It was definitely something to see. Had to put my two cents in anyway.

[Silverwitch]

I have to come in on this one! Yes, I agree that as spiritual beings, we have no gender. I also think that we have all been, all things. If you do any past life stuff, you'll know that gender is irrelevant. I've been a right male b*****d in some previous lives (that's of course if they're real), and in this life, my Gender Test has given me pause for thought!

However, here on this physical plane, we have male and female, but I don't agree that they are the same/equal. Rather that they are different, but neither is above the other, more like two sides of the same coin, which make up the whole. Just like ying/yang, positive/negative and so on, each with their own exceptional attributes.

By the way Wizard, it's good to have yet another Brit on board, and one who is not too far away from my own home land. Welcome, come join in the fun!

[Tigerwallah]

That's different. Those guys are paid to get the women going like that. Once the show is over, do these lusty ladies head out into the street and molest innocent passers by?

[eaglewolf]

Chipendales... lusty ladies?

Where am I when all of this is going on?

~ew, digging out his leather, G-string speedos~

[Kaylara]

Kinky! ;)

Kaylara
*putting on her Rocky Horror Outfit*

[mythril]

i agree , but it is not really right to base your opinion of males on that incident, we are not all perverted and insane , i know that there are unfortunately to many males on this plannet who are so but remember that there are some of us who would rather engage in meditation or ritual than have sex, especially taking advantage of females which is totaly sick!

[Tigerwallah]

Mythril, I don't actually have a bad opinion of men. I was just using that incident as an illustration of the way men and women differ. Women do bad things, don't get me wrong. Men are easier to incite to violence though. The biggest difference between men and women is that women are creative by nature, and men are destructive(And that's a big difference). Look at our approach to food. Women developed agriculture. Men introduced meat to the table. Women grew their food, men killed theirs. If you look at the other animal species, you'll see that this is pretty much the standard. The females job is to create life, make a nest, etc. The males job is to destroy any competition, and insure that his genes are reproduced. It's just nature. We are given certain roles by nature of our sex - that is all that I'm saying. :). Our souls may not have any sexual identity, but our earthly bodies do, and it effects the way we live and the lessons we learn.

So, don't take offense. I wasn't judging all men. I am, however, cautious of all men. Testosterone is both an exciting and threatening thing to a woman. It makes you guys sexy, but at the same time, it makes you a little dangerous- Just as estrogen levels can turn me into a b#@* on wheels.

[mythril]

I understand, i wasnt being antagonistic toward u, i was just interested in what u were saying ;).

I understand your view point and agree.

Just for interest, the lion is probably one of the few species of animals that are the opposite, the lioness being the one who hunts, and the male lion just sits like a big fat lazy king feasting off her hard work (lol).

[Kaylara]

"Come on, you seriously expect me to believe that? All of the older pagans I know are much more mature than this, have been around long enough to know proper grammar and punctuation, and none of 'em would have anything similar to your email address. They've been around since the beginning of neopaganism, use mundane names, and they agree with me that the whole fluffy scene has gotten far out of hand. "

"I also agree that they'll be "posers" everywhere you go in life, but I just hope the newest generation to the Craft won't ruin all that's been built up over generations and generations. To the "young ones": you all should feel blessed that you get to wear those Pentacles to school and whatever....I've been a Witch for over 10 years and have just recently felt "unafraid" to wear mine for fear of prejudice! I also work with the public and have encountered many who are apprehensive to display their beleifs for fear of their jobs! I've chosen to wear a representation of my faith because I had felt that now would be a good time to get more people "used" to seeing us among them, and they'd know they don't have to fear us. I IMPLORE you to be respectful of the faith you've chosen to follow! Please ...let's not return to the Burning Times....let's move forward into the future!"

I am sick of people thinking that every young pagan is a fluffy one!!! And I wish that they would stop it with this holier than thou attitude! When did we start persecuting our own! Some tolerence!!!!!!!

Kaylara

[Silverwitch]

Wow Kaylara, that's pretty heavy. I don't think anyone is putting young pagans down, nor suggesting that they are insincere. "Fluffy Bunnies" is just another stereotype, which hardly anyone fits. It's not aimed at any particular age group, just a type. It's not necessarily derogatory either. It's a bit like being called a hippy, just because you wear a patchwork skirt. Just a stereotype. Young Pagans are incredibly important, they are the ones who will shape the future, and should be nurtured and encouraged.

As an ancient Crone, I don't think for one moment that I know it all, and have the sole perogative on truth. It's a fact that the older I have become, the less I know. In my twenties I knew it all, in my thirties I was still pretty sure, in my forties each answer I found was followed by another question, and here in my fifties, I'm pretty sure I know nothing!

As for respect, I have the utmost respect for my beliefs and those of others, I hope I have respect for my fellow man/woman, but I am always wary that respect doesn't turn to sanctimony or into making things sacrilegeous. There in lies the way to institutionalised religion and the nanny state only a short step from there to the Burning Times.

The one thing I have learned is that laughter takes the sting out of most things, and I really think that no slight, or offence was meant by anyone.

Sent with Love and Light

[Tigerwallah]

Hey, I didn't think you were being antagonistic. I thought that you took offense at what I said. ;). I thought of the lion, but being a strick carnivore, they only destroy to eat.

In fact, I thought of lions when writing my response, and wondered if you've ever seen any being in South Africa. The closest I've ever come is the zoo :(.

I wasn't at all antagonized by your words. I do enjoy a good argument, and you are making a lot of good points. :).

[mythril]

I also enjoyed the "difference of opinions" talk ;).
Yes , i have been to the lion park a while ago.
They had lion cubs there and we were alowed to hold them.
They are really sweet but there claws are pretty sharp.

I must have come home with a dozen or more scratches which i got trying to feed them. (lol)

I also saw a few male and female lions lying under some trees.

Isn't creation marvelous.

[Tigerwallah]

Isn't creation marvelous.


Absolutely!!!!!

[Wizard]

Looking at all of your replies on this site, ha smade me realise i am still confused LOL,,, gender checks,, tree sucking flowers an all.
But hey,, at least we agree on something in common,,,,, whats the point!!!!!! let him/ her or it have their opinion, someday they'll make their own mind up... But for now i am happy doing the best i can to make things better for others,, and helping out as much as i can..

still confused about the gender check though.

[Astraea]

I think the creator makes some very valid points. Especially speaking about the "attitude" that many new Pagans seem to adopt when they find their new path, the "holier than thou" attitude, the "victim" attitude, etc. I also agree with him about how so many new Pagans (not just Wiccans) are misinformed about many aspects of Wicca and witchcraft.
I certainly do feel that we all have a right to practise or believe what we wish, but I also think that if we read the true message he expresses (like he asks on the site) we will see that he is not trying to say that anyone's spiritual path is invalid or that there is anything wrong with the fluffy bunnies. If you are an informed fluffy bunny and know your arse from your elbow, then be the fluffiest bunny out there.
On another note, I find it odd that he has used up so much of his time to "complain" about something that he says is no longer a part of his life.
But, he links to a page on my site so I have to give him credit for having good taste (heheh).

[widukind]

I think it's sad this person is complaining about how (newbie) Wiccans claim to know it all, but from his (I'll assume he is masculin) rhetoric, one can only conclude HE knows it all. ;)

Indeed, he does whine on and on about how it's NOT a part of his life anymore, and how you should ignore the good and enjoy the bloodshed in order to experience the true power (which is probably true, power cannot be achieved without some form of sacrifice) and ignore this, that and the other.

I agree with him lots of things newbies are told are wrong, but how are newbies to know and to blame, since they might not have any historical knowledge? I once had a conversation with a person who was BORN into Wicca ( born, mind you!) and she proclaimed that Wicca came from Greece before Christianity ever existed and that from it came Paganism and not the reverse. This might seem far-fetched, but history as long back as two thousand years, especially when Paganism, Wicca or Druidism are concerned, is obscure to say the least.
Lots of people thought they could change history by making up a tradition and others, like Caesar have deliberately altered the reader's perception to mislead him. Of course it is difficult to know what the truth is then, especially when all is new.

One last thing that saddens me, is when these people that wish to prove they themselves and not the opposition are enlightened, they use arguments that aren't objective. What this person on the 'Wiccans suck' site basically said was, "you say you can make up what you want, but that doesn't work for me, so I make something else up". The example witht teh horse shoes goes to show how dangerous it is to say people did that out of superstition, because, after all, what is superstition? Everything you do not believe in. Many Pagans will say the devil is superstition, and many Christians will say our Gods and Goddesses are superstition. And when this argument of superstition is used, you, in essence, deprave your opponents of their freedom to religion. Hence such an argument is subjective and does in the end not help you when trying to prove you tell the one truth.

My thoughts.

Brightest Blessings!

Widukind

[Astraea]

I couldn't help but go back and read through some of that site again! I agree with what you say about him not being objective as far as his feelings on making things up- and how he just turns around and makes up something else. I do not agree with his thoughts about Wicca not being "whatever you want it to be," for one thing. He seems to forget that Gardner is not the only "creator" of modern Wicca, there were many others who came after who developed "eclectic Wicca" and made it work. Certainly Wicca was not originally intended to be an eclectic path, rather an established tradition. But, it has developed into other things and the creator of the Why Wiccans Suck site chooses to ignore that for some reason.

I think he certainly has gone a little overboard with many of his "points," while at the same time, I found myself agreeing completely with other things he writes. I just never felt the need to condemn anyone for their spiritual opinions, even those who are wrong from a historical standpoint. Those who think Wicca is "The Old Religion of our ancestors" aren't bothering me one bit. My approach to anyone who believes that is to offer my knowledge on the subject, not beat them down and say their lack of historical knowledge makes their spirituality a joke.

Even though I agree with some of his points, I think the creator of that site is whining waaaaay to much. But who am I to judge, heheh.

[Wynter]

Yeah, Its put rather roughly. I don't what this person was thinking, so I won't put words in their mouth.
There is some of valid points. They are worded roughly, coat it with honey, take it in. It's good to see both sides of the coin.
I learned allot from it. Please check out the witchcraft part. It does not view witchcraft as a religion, which I find refreshing. It teaches the witch part of The Craft. It does not condemn, however, putting Wiccan elements in it. Just how to make your spells more effective.

Love you all,
Wynter

[MistOfTheSea86]

I just realized something. This person says that Wiccans suck eh? That we are a trend. Yet he followed it for a while. Probably did everything he is complaining about. So he feels he can redeem himself by telling others and getting them to pay attention to him. Interesting... He blames us for wanting attentiona nd all he is doing is craving for it and begging for it in condradicting words. He is trying to start something new so that he can be the high and mighty and not us. And also I feel it's stupid and very....Very...Well STUPID!!! HE probably based his opinions on a few Wiccans that he saw. Or all of them for that matter. Too bad for him that he met these kind of Wiccans whose fault is it anyway? IF he met those kinds of Wiccans what does it say about him. Really? The fact of the matter being is, he is a sad pathetic soul who wants attention and feels he can get by bashing us... SHowing opposition to his own opposition. YOu are going to meet people who claim they are "witches"or "wiccan" and they may or may not be serious, but to those of us who are serious, this person has absoultely no idea. If he did he wouldn't say we suck now would he???

[Wyrdsister]

I've seen this site before, and I must admit when I first saw it I laughed out loud! (I thought her example of a "newbie wiccan page" was unfortunately accurate ;)) As I continued to read through the site I started to feel more like a few others here felt - sorry for her. She seems to have a lot of pent up anger and frustration. It's too bad she can't work it out offline. :)

But if I went back and visited it again, I'm sure I'd still giggle at some parts. ;) :p

Wyrdsister

[Armitage]

The tutorial she linked to is rather helpful, though. Some good exercises for the dense ones like me who need help. ^_^

[magicbabs]

WEll, I finally went to the web page - read it...laughed pretty hard.


"Not necessarily those who follow the path of goodness and light, just those wannabes that think that since they watched "The Craft" and "Charmed"
that they are just as powerful as someone who devoted years of study and practice to the craft."


Oh Yes --- speak it sister!!!!!!


"And I think when anyone first gets into paganism (in any form), we all go through our stage of
what the author calls "fluffy." That's the stage where we're fascinated by everything and are"



YES!!!! Remember when we were young in our beliefs??????

Hey, I remember when I was starting the Native Path. I only talked with a few people and my teachers about my religion/path/views.

I come across "Newbie/wannabee/zealots" ALL the time. If I have one more 20 year old look at me with this "devotion goofey look" - "Barb" so you do sweatlodges???? What is your totem?? Should I do sundance????

PLLLLLLLLTTTTTTT!!!!!!! My point - everyone!!! We all gotta get our own life - follow what is in your heart.......HA!!!!

I was embarassed to tell anyone my religion at one point, because everyone was trying it. Almost everyone I encountered was practicing some strange version of it.

I like the hard core people. The practitioners that don't need to brag about their path!!!

But - I did go through a fluffy stage - I just did not stay there long.....

Babs

[zemblin]

I began to think these things and honestly began to deny these thoughts that I had.I enjoyed it.pretty cool.:)

[Ellegon]

Another good site that can give ya a laugh...sheesh!


elle )0(

[Dria El]

hehe You said suck. hehe

*having Beavis and Butthead flashbacks*

:) :D 8O

[Rævyn Cigány]

Originally posted by Dria El

hehe You said suck. hehe

*having Beavis and Butthead flashbacks*

:) :D 8O



LOL~! I was doing the same thing this morning talking tarot... Celtic spread....heh heh....she said 'spread'...heh heh....

BB

Rae )0(

[Kaylara]

Originally posted by magicbabs

"And I think when anyone first gets into paganism (in any form), we all go through our stage of
what the author calls "fluffy." That's the stage where we're fascinated by everything and are"

YES!!!! Remember when we were young in our beliefs??????

Hey, I remember when I was starting the Native Path. I only talked with a few people and my teachers about my religion/path/views.

I come across "Newbie/wannabee/zealots" ALL the time. If I have one more 20 year old look at me with this "devotion goofey look" - "Barb" so you do sweatlodges???? What is your totem?? Should I do sundance????

Babs


Well, I am a 20 year old who has devoted the past seven years of her life to this religion. I am still facinated by a lot of things, and I think that loosing that facination with life, and everything in it leads to stagnation. I look at it this way... I don't know everything, and will never in this life know everything there is to know... But I am in no way a 20 year old idiot who got into this because of the craft or charmed... (Those people will leave the craft soon enough)

As for the sundance. LMAO!!! Anyone that asks that obviously has no idea what the sundance is, because if they did, they would cringe and back away slowly.

Kaylara

[Loki]

But, I have visited the site many times to try to understand what the person is trying to tell peole, other than he hates fluffy bunnies.
He never really comes out and says what we should be learning and looking for. I get the impression he is saying that if we can't figure it out then thats our problem and not his. I say at least let us in on the secret so we can try to understand what you want from us.

[Incendia]

Just out of curiosity…do you feel that there’s a growing anti-wiccan sentiment throughout the pagan community as a whole? I attend a very small college (@900people) and when I found out, through a friend, that there was this pagan girl that was looking for a roommate, I was more than happy to meet her. However, when I told her that I consider myself to be Wiccan, she wrinkled her face up in disgust and said that she didn’t like Wiccans because they were “too sappy”. So, every time I see her, I feel kind of awkward…kind of like she is looking down on me…like I’m “wanna be” which is so far from the truth.
Thanx for any imput,
Amicus

[Kaylara]

There is a certain amount of distain I think for all of those young people in paganism simply because of the recent surge in intrest in the subject. The only problem a see with some of the younger pagans is that there is a focus on spells and rituals instead of religion. There are quite a few out there who don't want to do the work involved. It irks me quite a bit. But it makes me even more P'Oed when older pagans look down on me simply because of my age. Not all of us are just in it because it suddenly became a fad. I would have not pour so much effort, time, and energy into something that I wasn't serious about.

I think that lately the Term wiccan has become kind of a generic word simply because there is no unifying principle in it. Some people may say that the Wiccan Rede is that principle. But I don't believe that, since I know Wiccans who do not follow that. I think that the many of Pagans look at many Wiccans and make assumptions that are incorrect. But that is how people are. I take people on an individual basis. If you show to me that you are truly what you say, then we will not bash heads. If you have no idea what you are talking about, I will tell you what I know. It's that simple. I may bash heads with people every once in a while, but I have no patience for people who pretend to know things that they don't. (I make sure that I know what I am talking about before I open my mouth. And If I am not certain, I either say nothing, or let it be known that I am unsure.)

So far, most of the people on this board have shown themselves to be knowledgeable in the subjects that they address. And if they don't know, for the most part, they say so, ask questions, etc. I don't know if this is the exception to the rule or what, but I love the conversations that go on here, and I think that the people here are the real reason for the alarming addiction rate for this site. ;)

Just my pathetic, half coherent thoughts.

Kaylara

[Myst]

I am with Kaylara on this one.

And to further elaborate I don't feel any Pagan - Wiccan or not - has any right to try to look down on others or tell people they can't have this or that belief. Part of the reason I came to this religion was that I am free to choose my own path, and I feel everyone should be able to. If someone can't accept your beliefs then I think they're too close-minded.
in my personal opinion..

[gunner]

"Just my pathetic, half coherent thoughts."

kaylara, my dear, so far i don't remember ever seeing a "half coherent" or "pathetic" thought from you, whether i agree or disagree with what you might say at any particular time your remarks are usually thought out, to the point and quite intelligent. in most cases rather more so than most of the muggles i deal with in a day.

[Kaylara]

Thank you Gunner~

It's because I am at work and half asleep because of how slow it is today... I wasn't sure if it made sense at all... ;)


Kaylara

[Kaylara]

Hee hee... Muggles... 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

Kaylara

[Dria El]

hehe He said muggles. hehe hehe

:D :D :D

[Danustouch]

I tried to check out that link..but it was not available for the time being.

I am confused...What is it this site states is a fluffy bunny? Is it one who follows the Rede? Is it one who believes that Peace is always the BEST alternative, when possible? Is it one who works toward world peace, and a better environment?

Because...all of those...I agree with.

I do admit that it is not always possible to turn the other cheek.
I do admit that it is not always possible to protect yourself with any other means, but that of throwing some "zaps" if you will..out. And I do agree that we as a community SHOULD try to heal our world, where possible.

But...If you mean one of these people who use the Dungeons and Dragons Manual as their book of Shadows, or, of the people who read "Teen Witch" and all of a sudden, consider themselves a "Real" Witch (goddess, don't I hate that term), then..ok..you've got my attention.

I'll admit..they irk me too. I wish for my faith (eclectic wicca) to be seen as a valid one, with true spiritual insights, and lessons. Not as a fairy tale, or an escape from reality.

However...Slamming them, on a website, doesn't help much. Unfortunately...the one thing I have discovered is that the more we make fun of them, the more they retreat. Perhaps if we just try to raise questions which will make them think, we will do more good? Perhaps just setting good examples, will do more?

Gods I hope so!

Brightest Blessings.
Danustouch

[Danustouch]

Just for the record,

I do not want all of you to think I meant that EVERY teenager who reads teen witch, or anything like that is a "fluffybunny"..nor that every RPG player is.

All I am saying, is that for those who limit themselves to that, and use it as a way to get attention, or to feel power over others, they need to expand their horizons a little...

But in the end, we must show them a good example, as well.

There was a boy in my Circle in CT, who is a HEAVY rpg player...
He came to one of our open circles, for the first time, with a whole group of other RPG players. These kids were wearing velvet lined capes and full regalia (including staffs, swords, and HUGE pentacles) in my friends living room, in 90 degree weather. When we asked them if there was anyone who would like to offer a specific prayer to a specific deity...they called on "THOR" and "ODIN" (in BIG LOUD BOOMING VOICES) waving their HUGE swords around over our heads, and banging their staffs on the floor. It was downright frightening. Not to mention, smelly from the sweat. Anyway...I don't think we (who were an eclectic group, drank out of earthenware chalices, dressed in loose, casual clothing, and banging on dijembe (sp) drums) were what they wanted. We never thought we would see them again.

The next ritual..ONE of them showed up. We prepared for a lot of tongue biting. But ya know what? He came up to us afterwards, apologized for his friends, and said...he would like to learn about the religious aspects of wicca. ALL he had been taught, was the Power, the Spells, the Thundering Voice of Powerful Gods of War..etc.

He became one of our most faithful, and wonderful members. And was an apt pupil.

Kids who get caught up in the religion for the wrong reasons, can be guided in gentle ways, toward the CORE of the belief...it just takes some patience, and some willingness to listen, and to set an example. They will come around.

[Ellegon]

This Danustouch is one wise cookie...

Elle )0(

[Dria El]

What a great story. Thanks so much for sharing it! What a great example of 'being a good example' and having it pay off. :)

[Dria El]

Ellegon! You're still with us! I was just thinking about you! So glad you're still around! :) :) :) :D :D :D ;) ;) ;)

[Danustouch]

Thank you Ellegon and Drae-el...

I am very happy to meet you, and look foward to hearing more from you soon!

Brightest Blessings!

[Ellegon]

Originally posted by Dria El

Ellegon! You're still with us! I was just thinking about you! So glad you're still around! :) :) :) :D :D :D ;) ;) ;)



Dria El,

Glad ya noticed...:p I will be around for a while longer it seems. I have been given a new deadline of the 25th...so we have our fingers crossed and are surrounded my plenty of wood to knock on...lol :eek: Thanks again and be blessed!


Elle )0(

[moonmorgan]

Check out hte page I have about this site:

http://www.geocities.com/k_garber/suck.html

[SamuraiInBlack]

But on this topic of that webpage I'd like to say this:

My girlfriend showed me that page about a few months ago before I decided to become Wiccan. It left me shaken and confused in a way. Shaken because it made me wonder if being Wiccan was truly worth it, and because I didn't know what to think after reading all of that. Confused because it left me wondering "Ok. If that's all bad, then what in the hell is the RIGHT way to do it?"

As a young person following the Path of Wicca, (if I may call it that) I didn't know what to think anymore after reading it. But just out of curiousity I wrote to the site owner to see what he'd say about a person wanting to become a new pagan. In a way I was asking him "Ok buddy. If you think you're so damned smart on this, teach me your way of doing it right."

I never got a response. That was when I said screw it and became Wiccan, because if a person who has that much emotion about that kind of subject and can't even respond to a person who wants to learn what can be done to do things "right", obviously realizes then that his efforts were pointless in trying to prove "Why Wiccans Suck".

But still, I don't know what to think about the subject. I do agree that people who are "trendy witches" should really leave the path for true followers, however. The reason being is because I get very insulted when people use martial arts to beat the crap out of people instead of their own protection like they should. In truth actually, martial arts was not meant for fighting. It was originally geared toward expression of the body, like dancing, but turned into a fighting style later.

By trendy I mean people who run around acting out the stereotype and threatening people with black magick and basically doing everything WRONG (i.e. devil worship, casting curses, etc). I personally have no problem with a true follower that occasionally gives off a little scare to others just to get them to leave them alone. Sometimes I find that hilarious.

In a way I'm guilty of being a fluffbunny myself. Me and a friend of mine used to use our Live Action Roleplaying games of Vampire: the Masquerade as a joke around the school.

"Hey Adam want to do a Thamaturgical ritual tonight?"
"Yeah let's do the bloodreading!"
"Got the Latin transcript translated to English?"
"Sure do. Got the cool wavy ritual knife?"
"Uh huh!"
"Alright! My house, 7:30!!"

I know...I was stupid. But everyone who did the RPG was rolling in laughter over the preppies who were freaking out over it. LOL

We also scared the bejeezus out of one of the "hard-up" girls at our school who thought she was little miss psycho who could scare anyone into submission when we talked about "The Book of Nod".

"What's the Book of Nod?"
"The Book of Nod is the Book of Nod"
"Ok. What's the Book of Nod?"
"The Book of Nod." -nods-
"WHAT IS IT!?"

And that went on for awhile until she was nearly frothing at the mouth it seemed. Then we told her...

"It is the book within our possession that will allow us the secrets to vampyrism, the coming of what you mortals call Armageddon, and how to rid ourselves the curse of the burning sun, so we may devour you in broad daylight. Now that you know of the Book, you shall be our first victim"

Never did I see such a "tough little woman" pee so much in her pants and run to the bathroom crying.

But again, I was stupid. And that was before I even knew about Wicca or witchcraft or anything pagan.

[Armitage]

SIB: It's gaming humor. It's *funny*. Or at least I find it funny.