Week V | Magick | Lesson Five

[mol]

Ok. Lets look at some key points and then we are going to start Crafting our Craft.

What are the Four Weapons (Tools) of the Magician.

And, what do you think the different between a 'Magician' and say, just a person that does 'some Spells' ?

This is not a trick question...or is it? ;)

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by mol
What are the Four Weapons (Tools) of the Magician.
And, what do you think the different between a 'Magician' and say, just a person that does 'some Spells' ?This is not a trick question...or is it? ;)

First of all. Four? and Second, I draw a thick line between magic and "spellwork" (which I don't do), so I probably shouldn't answer this part, anyway. And no, I don't think it's a trick question.

[mol]

Hmm...let me rephrase...the four Principal..tools of the Magician. Remember that this class deals not only with the basics and advanced subjects of the Craft, but also with the Ceremonials use of Magick.

Delving into all areas...so academically, make a guess at it. Doesnt necessarily have to be what YOU use or Know.

Hmm.

Know. ;)

[Mairwen]

Tossed me for a loop! We have eight tools. LOL! :D Primarily, though, we use water, salt, the athamé, incense and fire.

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
I know very little or nada of Ceremonial Magic,cool!I'll guess.
The Sword,maybe an athame.Censer.Pentacle.Scourge?
Just a guess.
Rain BrightStar

[mol]

Thats great everyone...keep going...

[Shatav]

In my tradition, the four tools I use are a candle (fire), an athame (air), a chalice with water (water), and a plate with bread (earth)...I also have two roses, one white and one red, but those are extras specific to my tradition. Is this what you mean by tools?

And the difference between a Mage and someone who just does spells? Living the path versus just doing it some of the time, would be my answer. It's the difference between a true Christian and a Sunday Christian in my eyes. IMHO.

[mol]

Originally posted by Shatav
And the difference between a Mage and someone who just does spells? Living the path versus just doing it some of the time, would be my answer. It's the difference between a true Christian and a Sunday Christian in my eyes. IMHO.

A very interesting analogy indeed...

And about the tools you posted...yes, that type is exactly what I am talking about...

[Sephiroth]

there are 4 tools/ weapons one for each section of the world north, south, east, and west

if i can find my print outs i would say them wait i found it.

northern tool: pentacle
southern tool: wand
eastern tool:athame/sword
western tool:chalice/cauldron

[mol]

Originally posted by Sephiroth


if i can find my print outs i would say them wait i found it.



Put the print-outs away and think for yourself. True Knowledge comes from within. Books and papers only unlock what we already know.

Now, what do YOU think the Tools should be?

[mol]

Tomorrow we will start looking at why I suggested 4 principal tools...and how they fit in with our workings of Magick and everyday life.

[Sephiroth]

the sword for the first, mind for second, faith for the third, and spirit for the fourth tool

the reason i picked the sword is because i feel like its a very spiritual weapon

[mol]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
the sword for the first, mind for second, faith for the third, and spirit for the fourth tool

the reason i picked the sword is because i feel like its a very spiritual weapon

Why? Explain that...

[Sephiroth]

hmmmm
well i feel like it is because i feel like one whenever i become in contact with a sword like it talks to me u can say it has the ability of becoming one with my body like an extention to my body i can feel the power that flows through the sword. when ever i touch it feels like it gives me the power and there for granting me the chance of how should i put this ummmm improving one will say getting stronger. by leting the swords power into me i feel like i become one with the sword it self.

without the mind nothing would ever work without it life would not work for me and the ability to react would not be there.

without soul or spirit magick could not exist in the first place as ppl say the soul and the spirit are the most magickal thing in the universe and nothing can compare to its power

and faith is like the engine to it all some ppl like me relie on faith for a chance of magick or to learn. in some cultures religions think that with out faith the human life is not worth living

[Sleeping Ghost]

Originally posted by mol
Ok. Lets look at some key points and then we are going to start Crafting our Craft.
What are the Four Weapons (Tools) of the Magician.
And, what do you think the different between a 'Magician' and say, just a person that does 'some Spells' ?


Tools :
Male/fire- Athame/Sword
Female/water- Chalice/Cauldron
Earth-Pentacle
Air-incense

Difference between magician and occaisional spellcasters:
Magician's eat, sleep and breathe their magic, they truly belive in it's powers.
Occaisional spelcasters ... well... don't

[mol]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
hmmmm
well i feel like it is because i feel like one whenever i become in contact with a sword like it talks to me u can say it has the ability of becoming one with my body like an extention to my body i can feel the power that flows through the sword. when ever i touch it feels like it gives me the power and there for granting me the chance of how should i put this ummmm improving one will say getting stronger. by leting the swords power into me i feel like i become one with the sword it self.

Very good explanation.

Now, do you feel this way with any sword? Or do you have a particular sword that you wield?

And...do, please, try to use punctuation. It makes posts much easier to read. Thx.

:D

[Sephiroth]

first i like to say sorry about the periods and stuff that i missed im a lousy writer.

this sword type stretches there all japanese swords

[mol]

Originally posted by Sephiroth

this sword type stretches there all japanese swords

My next question...are you Japanese? Or...maybe you were Japanese?

[Sephiroth]

actually in 100% german i think i have celtic blood with in me though. i feel the most energy coming from my ninja tow its a pint sized katana

[mol]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
actually in 100% german i think i have celtic blood with in me though. i feel the most energy coming from my ninja tow its a pint sized katana

Ahh...I am not talking of blood and bone now...

I am talking of before. What about in another life?

[Sephiroth]

i dont know if i was or not im not that in tuned with my past lives i wish i was, but saorry im dont know

[mol]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
i dont know if i was or not im not that in tuned with my past lives i wish i was, but saorry im dont know

Well, the possibility is there...especially if you feel a strong connection with a particular type of tool.

[Sephiroth]

cool i never would have thought of it that way. about the tool i mean..

[mol]

Anyone else? before we move on...

[Sephiroth]

im ready to move on mol

[Silverwitch]

(Don't know how to do a "quote" from someone elses post, so this is my answer to Mols original question!)

The four magickal tools which I use are:-

Athame (for the East/Air)
Wand (for the South/Fire)
Chalice (for the West/Water)
Pentacle (for the North/Earth)

As for the difference between Magicians and those who do spells, well, they both use magic, and both are probably serious in what they do. However, the Magician should know why and how magick works, much like a logical science, and generally uses High Magick, whereas the spellcaster usually just "does" and relys on Low Magick. This is not to infer that one is better than the other, they are just different forms.

[Jazzmine]

I also use the athame, chalise, pentacle, censor. They represent the four elements. But I also have candles.

I agree with another person that the differences would be a person that wants to live the path, or just dabble.

[Silverwitch]

I also use candles, but not as one of the four main tools.
I use them for effective lighting, candle magic, to represent the male/female principle etc.

[mol]

Ok...now that we have had a few more additions. Lets look at this phrase for a moment.


To Know
To Will
To Dare
To Be Silent.


Look this over and tell me what YOU think it means. And, I wonder why I posted this here at all? What does it have to do with anything we are discussing here?

[Sephiroth]

to know. i would have to say to know is for what u want to do in a spell, ritual, enchantment,ect

to will. i would have to say would be for like telling the gods and goddess's that u are ready to cast whatever u want to do. ohh and asking the permition in the thing u wish to do. and know that their always there to help u wen u need it.

to dare. for me would be to actually going through with the ritual, spell, ect... or to dare to invoce the gods and stuff like that.

and to be silent. i would say would be for the time of silents in a ritual. like lets say that i would proform a ritual and i wanted an anwser for the goddess isis i would be silent for that part of the ritual to hear what she is trying to tell me.

i think thouhs would be the 4 rules of spell casting or the 4 rules of a ritual and that they play a good roll in it all.

[Silverwitch]

Originally posted by mol
Ok...now that we have had a few more additions. Lets look at this phrase for a moment.


To Know
To Will
To Dare
To Be Silent.


Look this over and tell me what YOU think it means. And, I wonder why I posted this here at all? What does it have to do with anything we are discussing here?

This as far as I am concerned is the formula for High Magick, which I think has to be relevant to the discussion, or perhaps that just my interpretation of it!
Here goes -

TO KNOW: Knowledge is the key to power, to "know" is to have the key and is the first step in being able to perform High Magick.

TO WILL: Is to be able to focus or hone your will 100%
to the exclusion of all else.

TO DARE: Is to take the Knowledge and the Will and use if for the purpose you desire.

TO BE SILENT: Is to completely discard, or "forget" what you have done, and leave it in the lap of the Gods.

[mol]

Ok...anyone else want to lend some insight?

To Know
To Will
To Dare
To Be Silent

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Silverwitch


This as far as I am concerned is the formula for High Magick.

me personaly i do not believe in high or low magick. because of the reason that magick is all natural. it comes from within the person and its the person that controls it all. if a persons magick is week or he cant proform it as well as others does not make it low or if a elder has a great amount of magick and if hes capeable of useing it better does not make it high magick. all magick is equal is wat im trying to say. just like u and me we're both human and ur not higher or lower of me we're equals. i think its the same with magick that way

[Silver Venus]

Hi all and mol,
I'm joining a little late so heres my catching up ~
What the Tools represent to me:
South / Male / Fire - Sword or Candles
West / Female / Water - Chalice or Cauldron
North / Earth - Pentacle or Soil
East / Air- Athame or Incense

Not really sure about these ~
The Magican uses Cermonial and High Magick and lives, breathes and sleeps magick.
While a spell caster/Witch uses Magick to cast personal spells.

To know: Your own purpose and self. To have the power and understand what you are about to do in a spell and what you want to achieve.

To will: To will your own circle of light, gods, four quarters, to will your wish into action.

To dare: To let all your physical boundaries down and go with the feeling of the magick but still know your limits and be safe.

To be silent: To creatively visualise all your dreams or the outcome of the spell, to meditate and be with oneself totally.

This saying may have relevance to The four elements/tools/directions with

To know: Earth
To will: Water
To dare: Fire
To be silent: Air

Thats my take :p

[mol]

Excellent replies. I am going to linger just a little longer and see if we get any more feedback before we look deeper into the meaning of:

To Know
To Will
To Dare
To Be Silent

[Silverwitch]

Originally posted by Sephiroth


me personaly i do not believe in high or low magick. because of the reason that magick is all natural. it comes from within the person and its the person that controls it all. if a persons magick is week or he cant proform it as well as others does not make it low or if a elder has a great amount of magick and if hes capeable of useing it better does not make it high magick. all magick is equal is wat im trying to say. just like u and me we're both human and ur not higher or lower of me we're equals. i think its the same with magick that way

Knew someone would pick me up on this! Forgive me, I wasn't suggesting for one moment that either classification (High/Low) means one is above the other, or better than the other. They are really archaic terms which come from traditional occult teachings, and are probably more familiar to those who follow the magicians path/s.
All they mean is that so called "High Magic" is supposedly a very formal, ritualised, strict way of practise, with lots of rules and laws and stuff, whilst so called "Low Magic" is a very natural, earthy and often spontaneous way of practise, going with what feels right. Neither is "better" or "above" the other, nor more effective, nor more spiritual, just different ways to practise magic. Personally I veer to the more formal stuff, 'cause I love it, but I do like to be spontaneous now and again, and am not above embracing the Moon!:bigredgri

I certainly agree that neither of us is higher or lower than the other, but our paths and practises probably differ, even though the outcomes may be the same and we share the same goals. It's really all just down to terminology.

[mol]

We will be picking this back up later today. Sorry for the delay but I was trying to get the rest of the site back in order.

Which it is now!

[Illyandra]

The four tools:

Athame/Sword (Fire)
Chalice/Cup (Water)
Pentacle/Coin(I say coin because although it is NOT the norm for a tool I have not found a pentacle for my altar and I have a collection of foreign coins on a plate in a pentacle formation) (Earth)
Wand/Incense (Air)

I know everybody does NOT agree on the elemental associations, those are the ones that happen to work for me.

********************
To Know,
To Will,
To Dare,
And to Be Silent.

To me this phrase is a guideline.

To Know- know your intent, seek the knowledge, know what you need, know yourself...

To Will-have the desire, the ability, the strength, the belief to make it happen...

To Dare-courage, dare to seek, dare to be different, dare to believe it will happen...

And to Be Silent- patience, wait for it to happen, don't rush it, no need to speak of what you do, intend, or desire as long as you believe it will happen (for some this is probably their charge/oath of secrecy, I think if I was in a group I would want that!)...

[mol]

The four keywords here also apply to the Wheel of Life. Can anyone see and post how you think this applies?

[Silver Venus]

Mol ~ would love to answer but - sorry which four key words? Do you mean the four tools?
:D

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by mol
The four keywords here also apply to the Wheel of Life. Can anyone see and post how you think this applies?

Spring To Know
Summer To Will
Autumn To Dare
Winter To Keep Silent

Is that what you're looking for? I am just guessing because these four things don't apply to my Tradition.

[Silverwitch]

Hi Mol and all,

In my understanding the four "rules" also have other associations which relate to the Wheel of Life. These are:-

To know - Spring - East- Air- Mind - Child
To will - Summer - South-Fire-Energy-Adult
To dare - Autumn-West-Water-Emotion-Senior
To be silent-Winter-North-Earth-Manifestation-Elder

and so it goes on. There are loads more correspondences, Tarot, Astrological,Colours,Incense etc etc etc In the end we always come back to the Encircled Cross and the Wheel of Life.

[Mariposa De La Luna]

I must be newer than I thought. I must admit I've never seen the 4 rules before so I'm just following your conversation.

[Silverwitch]

Originally posted by SAHM
I must be newer than I thought. I must admit I've never seen the 4 rules before so I'm just following your conversation.

I probably shouldn't have used the word 'rules' cause that implies it's bad to break 'em :bigredgri Motto may be a better phrase, although I don't even think that's right! They originate, with Hermetic Magic, the Golden Dawn and all that mob, and whether you have come across them before or not, it's always good to to have a think, and see what they mean to you. I've always used them as a formulae (that's the word!), for peforming magic, and as a generator for correspondences. Hope that provides some clarification!

[ruthie]

Catching up well now, I think. The four tools that I have read about (don't use though as such), are the athame, wand, chalice, stang, staff, sword, etc.

Personally, I use what is to hand. If I need a drink, I use a cup, if I need to chop, I use a knife. These things are tools to me, and should be used as such.

However, my magical "tools" are mind, body, spirit, and my third eye/the little black box in the middle of the essence of me. Feed these a little every day and they grow into a wonderous creation.

To Know - to own the knowledge, not only of oneself, of what has been read, but to be able to place these together, so they comfort the inner being.
To Will - to enable change by force of thought. Use what you will as the tool for this, and call it what you wish, prayer, magic(k), whatever. In the end, it all boils down to the same thing.
To Dare - to be able to put aside all other thoughts, to focus your energy, to do it.
To Be Silent - to keep the faith. Hold the secret. It's okay being open about what you are, but singing it from the rooftops can often put others off!!

I hope that was worthwhile.

[Shatav]

Originally posted by mol
The four keywords here also apply to the Wheel of Life. Can anyone see and post how you think this applies?

To Know: Childhood, when you are in school learning, expanding your mind.

To Will: late teen to young adult, when you are yearning to stretch your wings and put that knowledge to use.

To Dare: Adulthood, when you have the knowledge, the will, and the resources available to do what you wish.

To be silent: Senior adulthood, when you have accomplished what you wanted or could in this life and can finally rest.

[Mairwen]

OOooooooh, Shatav! I like that!

[vocis noctis]

I am too inexperienced to answer this question... sorry :\

[ruthie]

Shatav that was a wonderful way of explaining it. I like your terminology. Age is an important part of our lives, where we are on our own wheel of life ditacts much of what we are capable of doing/understanding. Thank you.

[Sephiroth]

yes i agree i would never have thought of that.... its a very good way of explaining it

[Silverwitch]

Originally posted by Shatav


To Know: Childhood, when you are in school learning, expanding your mind.

To Will: late teen to young adult, when you are yearning to stretch your wings and put that knowledge to use.

To Dare: Adulthood, when you have the knowledge, the will, and the resources available to do what you wish.

To be silent: Senior adulthood, when you have accomplished what you wanted or could in this life and can finally rest.

Shatav, great minds think alike!! :bigredgri In my post on the previous page, the stages of 'man' were included among my correspondences. It's one I particularly like, but as I'm sliding from 'To Dare' into 'To be silent', but seem to have missed out on the bit about having the resources available to do what I wish!! Still, two out of three ain't bad I suppose ;)

[cydira]

Ok, first with the tools.

North-Earth-Plate/wheel/mirror/culdron/stone/shield
East-Air-Wand/censer/feather/voice/book of shadows/armor
South-Fire-Athame/blades/flame & candles/sword
West-Water-Chalice/cup/mirror/divination tools/energy/healing

Now, the last ones on my little list of tools I don't exactly own, but there's an association between these things and the elements. Shield is protection of others. Armor is protection of self. Sword is taking action and being decisive. Healing is obviously healing and the aid of others.

The cup and plate are for the ritual feast. Censer and culdron are altar tools that can also be associated with the elements of fire and water, respectively. Blades are symbolic of fire and all of it's associations for me. Mirrors are both reflecting the physical form and they also present an illuison of another form behind the glass. Illusions, I feel, are suited with the element of water. Mirrors can also be divination tools. The book of shadows involves the conscious mind, hence being associated with air. I'm not sure if Mol is going to be discussing elemental associations or not... but I guess, I'll find out soon. :D

Now, for the four traits.

I don't personally adhere to these, but from what I have learned:

Earth - to know
Air - to will
Fire - to dare
Water - to be silent

And earth and water can be changed about. I believe that to know is representitive of knowing that your magic will work, it's much like body knowledge also. Knowing that your heart beats and such. To will, I think, is representitive of both what the victorians called character and also the intellectual desire for something. To dare is courage, and also the emotional desire. And to be silent, I think, is a warning for you to be silent of your practice of magic for your safety and also a reminder that the greatest truths of religion can not be spoken aloud because they're so vast. <shrugs> I'm not certian however.

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

I'm just following the conversation too. ...and trying to absorb all that I can! :D

I agree with many of you....a different aspect, but all pretty much the same! :D

~D

[random]

Well, I am, yet again, late.. but I am answering anyhow:( (I have written these down)

Earth
North
Green Candle
Chalice or plate of sifted and charged dirt.
Pentagram

Air
East
Yellow Candle
Censor
Athame

Fire
South
Red Candle
Couldren (may or may not have something burning inside)
Walking Stick

Water
West
Blue Candle
Chalice of Charged Water

***

To Know
knowing what you want
knowing the basics of others'

To Will
Ability to explin why oyu want what you want
Ability to create your own rules or basics

To Dare
To go for what you want
Ability to fail and begin anew

To Be Silent
To Meditate without hesitation
ABility of Self Control