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View Full Version : Terrorist-vs-Terrorist is a recipe for disaster



Earth Walker
September 22nd, 2001, 02:27 PM
Allow me to paraphrase from a website entitled American Terrorism, because it gets to the heart of the matter as
directly as possible: If the homicidal maniacs of the American military hadn't spent the last 60 years mass-murdering innocent women, children, and men in over 50 countries worldwide, there's a damn good chance that there wouldn't be suicidal psychopaths running around trying to exact their revenge.
Ever heard the phrase "live by the sword, die by the sword"?
How about "It takes two to tango"?
If you really believe that this is a battle between a "free, democratic country" versus "the scourge of terrorism," let me
set you straight. This is a war between two groups of equally vile,
despicable terrorists. And, as always, the vast majority of victims
are innocent.
If you study the under-reported history of the 20th century,
you'll find that America has been the major financial backer of
state-sponsored terrorism since at least the Second World War.
At that time, the American military showed the world its complete
and utter lack of anything resembling human decency by levelling
two Japanese cities and wiping out over 150,000 innocent victims.
Not content to rest on its laurels with that morally reprehensible
act, the U.S.(with their close buddies the British)pushed forward
to create the state of Israel by funding the Israeli war machine,
which not only drove the Palestinians from their own land, but
made a point of dismantling over 400 Palestinian villages and
creating between 750,000 and 900,000 refugees.
Today, there are about three million Palestinian refugees, of
which one million live in appalling conditions in refugee camps.
In the past five decades, the U.S. has continued to fund Israel --
a regime if institutionalized violence which, to this day, uses
torture and murder to enforce its policies, according to Amnesty
International.
Throughout the 20th Century, America had its hand in virtually
every conflict this globe has seen. The result: millions of innocent
women, children, and men killed in the Phillipines, Vietnam, Laos,
Cambodia, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Korea, Indonesia,
Panama, Grenada, Libya, Lebanon, Sudan, Afghanistan, Somalia,
Bosnia and Yugoslavia. I think you get the drift.
As well as direct military action, the American CIA has also been
responsible for training, arming and funding dozens of fascist
puppet-regimes and death squads, who have committed the
torture and genocide of millions of civilians in(here we go again)
Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico, Colombia,
Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay,
Brazil, China, East Timor, Indonesia, Congo, Angola, Zaire,
Mozambique, Cyprus, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan...is it any
big surprise that some of the orphans of these atrocities are now
all grown up and have a raging hate-on for the American imperialists?
Even America's two favourite modern day villians were helped out
handsomely by the CIA. America propped up Saddam Hussein's
war machine while he was fighting Iran, and turned a blind eye
while that monster tested his chemical weapons on thousands
of innocent Kurds. And Osama bin Laden, now public enemy
number one, learned the nasty art of terrorism from CIA operatives to help him battle the Soviets during the early 1980's.
In those days, the CIA hoped that bin Laden would lead an
Islamic terrorist movement that would crush the Soviet Union,
which at that time, of course, was America's mortal enemy.
What a clever tactic that turned out to be.
Well, the Soviet Union is now gone, and the Gulf War has been
over for 10 years, but nothing has been accomplished except
the death and misery of hundreds of thousands of innocent
victims(there's that phrase again, funny how that happens when
you have a war).
Saddam Hussein is still his same twisted self, still entrenched in
power, and still looking quite well-fed, while over 70,000 Iraqis
died during the war(many, by the way, shot in the back as they
tried to escape the carnage, remember?), and 130,000 more in
the war's aftermath.
Since then, thanks to an embargo spearheaded by the U.S.
(which, inevitably, only affects civilians, since the war-mongers
in power take all the goodies) at least one milliom Iraqis, half of
them children, have died from lack of proper nutrition and medical
treatment.
For the American war machine to now try to take the moral high
ground is thoroughly despicable. There is no moral high ground
when your business is the slaughter of human beings.
War, terrorism, freedom-fighting, peace-keeping -- give it any
euphemism you want -- the killing of innocent people is always
wrong. War is never noble or glamorous. War is hell. And when
you get right down to what is right and what is wrong, there is no real difference between the sick ****s who flew those planes
into those towers and the yahoos who shot retreating Iraqi
soldiers in the back. There is no difference between the Palestinian suicide bomber killing innocent Israelites and Israeli
soldiers shooting Palestinian children. There is no difference
between the bombing of Pearl Harbour and the bombing of Hiroshima. All are crimes against humanity, carried out by vicious
criminals. The only variable is the number of lives lost.
But now we hear Dubya, while figuring out how to avenge the
deaths of thousands of innocent people(by, inevitably, killing yet
more innocent people), say that "America is a peaceful nation."
The hypocrisy of it all makes me want to puke.
Yes, America is a peaceful nation, because, deep down inside,
70% of American want nothing more than peace.
But that all-important 5%, those maniacal power-hungry military
dirtbags who pull the strings of the American government,
the 10%, the Corporations who really run the country, and the
15%, the KKK, Skinheads, Nazis, and others, they are the scum
of the Earth. Scum battles Scum.
So what's it going to be Shrubby? Retaliation? And what will that
solve? Why don't you listen to that "god" you claim you're always
praying to and turn the other cheek. Be a man and admit that
the violence has gone on long enough. You're not in preschool
anymore. You don't have to have a temper tantrum and strike
back.
Expecting America not to strike back is ludicrous, but the other
option is too chilling, too terrifying to even consider.
Retaliation by the American psychos will simply bring greater
retaliation from those who hate them.
The next step in this escalating madness is a suitcase nuke
detonated over a major North American city, a jumbo jet hijacked
and launched straight into a nuclear reactor, or any of the
chemical or biological warfare nightmares of which we've heard
so much about recently. Any of these acts would leave countless
people dead, diseased, or deformed, and still the problems will
remain. Is that the path we wish to take?
Shrubby, it is time to step out of the ring. Take that $40 billion-
plus that you magically snapped into existence in order to fight
terrorism, and use it to feed your children, fix your schools, give
everyone decent medical care, and help the poor and homeless.
Take care of the people in your country, and truly make America
the beacon for democracy you always harp on about.
Lead by example. Mind your own business and take care of your own citizens. Quit trying to enforce your version of reality on the
rest of the world. That is the only sure path to peace.
And if you need closure, find bin Laden, chop off his head and
hold it up on CNN so you can feel like a man.
But don't go stalking across the globe just to kill more innocent
victims.

Myst
September 22nd, 2001, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Mystique
So what's it going to be Shrubby? Retaliation? And what will that solve? Why don't you listen to that "god" you claim you're always praying to and turn the other cheek. Be a man and admit that the violence has gone on long enough. You're not in preschool anymore. You don't have to have a temper tantrum and strike back.

Yeah maybe we should just leave bin Laden and his people alone so they can terrorise the US again in a few years, eh?

Earth Walker
September 22nd, 2001, 03:20 PM
I hold the view that armed conflict is for people who aren't
intelligent enough to come up with alternatives, regardless
of who initiates it or retaliates, once it starts, it escalates!
The resource notes humans are the only species on the planet
that engages in war, and that some groups have never been
to war, leading to the conclusion that "war is a human invention --
not human nature -- and that we go to war because we are misled or fail to use our intelligence to avoid it.

loopy
September 22nd, 2001, 03:59 PM
I don't know. Maybe humans are more formal about it-- uniforms and guns and all-- but every day is war for all kinds of species. Animals fighting over territory, for food, for survival. Humans are more advanced, technologically speaking, so I think our war is just a more advanced, larger-scale version of every creature's war.

Earth Walker
September 22nd, 2001, 04:23 PM
Animals killing for food is not war, that is Nature's way of
keeping life in proper balance. We kill animals for food,
that is not war.

What is war is the fact we continue to produce more and more
garbage, and rapidly running out of places to put it.....some
megatons of trash has been towed out to sea and dumped.
They have found many species dead, dead with plastic, and
other human discards in their system....chemicals, etc.
100 species are becoming extinct every day....we continue to
totally destroy the environment....the number of the human
population is +6 billion and rapidly growing...and thus pushing
other species out...we took away their natural habitat and food
supply,and thus they became extinct....we are also covering
the earth with concrete, blacktop, houses and other buildings,
which continues to gooble up agricultural land.....that is one
reason why people are hungry/starving to death.
Wars are one reason why there are droughts....look at Iraq,
Afghanistan, or Bosnia, Yugoslavia, the Russian invasions of
some European countries, etc.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it! :( :( :( :( :(

Yvonne Belisle
September 22nd, 2001, 04:35 PM
My personal opinion is that there sometimes comes a point where words no longer work. I for one am very glad that the Americal Colinists chose to fight when their words were unheard. I also would like to point out that the tactics of the militia at that time to the British regements would have felt like terrorism does to many of us. Similarities include death coming from places they didn't look for it from ie trees and buildings. The British army was surprised at the savages that the colonials had become they didn't follow the rules of combat no neat ranks walking forward and attacking by the gentlemanly rules of combat many expected. Had the American colonials been waging the war for independence on the British Isles many of thier innocents would have died because it was fought here many of ours did. Did it make it right because the outcome was our freedom? I can't answer that. What I can point out is that I feel as a Nation we are being attacked because of what we symbolize. The people attacking us feel that they are doing it for the right reasons. Are they wrong to feel that way? I don't know but I do know that although they see us give aid to them they also see us as giving aid to their enemies. Now look at what we are proposing to do. Attacking the countries that give aid to those that are fighting against us and have attacked us. Looks like the same arguement they are using to me. I agree we need to defend ourselves and I feel that we can not let this disgusting act go unpunished. I also feel however that we need to see why it was done and see if a settlement can be reached. Are we contributing to our own attacks is there any behavior that as a nation we can alter so that we do not continue to be targeted or has it gone to far for anything short of conquiring these nations and forcing our will upon thier people to protect our own?

loopy
September 22nd, 2001, 04:37 PM
Animals also kill for territory, a subject of many human wars as well. And we don't have all the answers; maybe all our wars are nature's way of keeping things balanced for us too.

Yup, I agree that pollution sucks.

Myst
September 22nd, 2001, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Mystique
What is war is the fact we continue to produce more and more
garbage, and rapidly running out of places to put it.....

That might be crap but it isn't war, it's garbage. Yeah it does suck, but what does it have to do with terrorism right now?

And the U.S. sat back and took it before and look what happened - they got attacked again. Now we're going to find every goof and his dog trying to imitate as well as whoever is responsible probably doing it again.

We aren't animals; we're people. And one fundamental difference there is that we harbour hate and act upon it. You don't see a lot of wolves crashing planes into buildings to make a point do you? As much as some of us we wish we could, human nature is human nature.

I'm not saying I promote war (I don't), or that I want it. I'm saying the people responsible need to be apprehended and punished. If they aren't, they'll continue to try to kill innocent people.

Laiste
September 22nd, 2001, 09:48 PM
Ok so let's say for arguments sake that the US is resposible for the terrorism and wars going on now. Who then, pray tell, is responsible for all the wars and terrorism that has ocurred on this planet since the humans came to exist upon it??!! After all the U.S is ONLY 225 years old!! Explain that one!!

Daniel
September 23rd, 2001, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Mystique

At that time, the American military showed the world its complete
and utter lack of anything resembling human decency by levelling
two Japanese cities and wiping out over 150,000 innocent victims.This enabled the bluff ("there's more where that came from," to paraphrase) that ended the war, saving millions of lives.


Not content to rest on its laurels with that morally reprehensible act, the U.S. (with their close buddies the British)pushed forward to create the state of Israel by funding the Israeli war machine, which not only drove the Palestinians from their own land, but made a point of dismantling over 400 Palestinian villages and creating between 750,000 and 900,000 refugees.The people of Israel were driven from their home by the Romans. Considering how many people seem to feel that it's okay for the Federal government to back the Oneida Land Claim, which seeks to displace 20,000 individual American landowners, I fail to see why this is so different.


Today, there are about three million Palestinian refugees, of which one million live in appalling conditions in refugee camps. In the past five decades, the U.S. has continued to fund Israel -- a regime if institutionalized violence which, to this day, uses torture and murder to enforce its policies, according to Amnesty International.They are bombed, sniped, and bombed some more. They respond by throwing heavy artilery back at the Palestinians.

Hasen't it occured to anybody that if the Palestinians stopped trying to destroy Israel, that Israel would stop trying to return the favor?


And Osama bin Laden, now public enemy number one, learned the nasty art of terrorism from CIA operatives to help him battle the Soviets during the early 1980's.I sincerely doubt this. We didn't need Bin Laden. The Soviets destroyed themselves in their desperate attempts to keep up in the arms race; basically, they spent everything they had on it, and in a country where the state runs everything worth running, everything ground to a hault and colapsed.


For the American war machine to now try to take the moral high ground is thoroughly despicable. There is no moral high ground when your business is the slaughter of human beings.The fatal flaw in this bit of logic is that you are treating the American government and the American military as if they are living entities in and of themselves, which they are not. They are run by men, and not always the same men. While the "same" military institution that dropped atomic bombs on Japan is seeking to be cast in the light of "fighting the good fight," different men are at the helm. [/QUOTE]

You cannot blame these men for the actions of their predessors any more than you can lay the sins of the father at the feet of his son.

Additionally, you are neglecting the sheer volume of people in this world that America is responsible for feeding, clothing, and educating. You are neglecting the infrastructure we have built for other nations, the money given and loaned to help faltering governments out of quicksand pits of deficit and depleated supplies of hard currency.

You are ignoring these things because it is convienant for you to do so: were you to pay attention to them, it would make it much more difficult for you to color America as a nation of "terrorists" in their own right.

America is a complicated place, and American politics makes it even more complicated. We are neither villans, nor heroes. We are simply a freedom-loving people, doing the best we can with what we were handed by our predecessors.

Sometimes it isn't much, but it's a lot more than other nations could or would do, were they in our shoes.

EasternPriest
September 23rd, 2001, 02:53 AM
...and this article is just more of the garbage we have to get rid of each and every day.