Pagans in Recovery

[airmist]

In the New Pagans Forum a thread entitled alcohol was started as a question concerning its use in meditations and rituals and so forth. As such things go, I gather, the discussion line varied from that at times to discussions of addiction. While the previously referred to posts were about the use and abuse of substances, my hope is to hear from others already in recovery as pagans on issues of interest to anyone and about our spiritual path.

The recovery programs are highly spiritual. The one I participate in is very clear that it does not support any particular religion or spiritual path, but that having one will eventually be necessary to recovery.

There are many sharing our beliefs in recovery but since we tend not to discuss our spiritual paths specifically at our meetings, and since a large majority of the people in our meetings follow one of the more "traditional" paths it is always a real joy to meet others who believe more along the lines I do and to be in a place where we can talk about it. And this is particularly new for me since I am very much a solitary and have only a little contact with any others, nevermind some in recovery. So, if anyone, in a program or not, is interested, I hope you join in.

[seawitch]

blessings airmist
i've been sober 3 years last month, and i couldn't have got this far with out my faith in goddess and god. i am glad you started this thread ,and to know there are others who have apple juice in thier circles
aroura

[aquinnah]

Hello Airmist and Seawitch - I'm clean today and grateful for the recovering pagans I met when I started my new way of life. I was afraid that everyone in recovery would judge me because of my spirituality, and I was pleasantly suprised to find out that I was not alone. Leaving behind the drugs meant I became free to explore the path I had only glimpsed at when I was high. I just came back from a pagan pride weekend with a couple of my 'earth-people' pagan friends. It was great - I never would have been able to do that when I was using. They know I'm in recovery, as is another woman in our group, and we always have cider or juice available. Most of the time there isn't even any alcohol. I've learned alot in my recovery service work that has helped me with my pagan activities, from organizing events, learning to share honestly and listening non-judgementally to others' opinions. (Well, okay, so I still have a way to go on the non-judgemental part:rolleyes: ) When I hear how others struggle with spirituality because they can't see or feel their Higher Power, I am grateful that all I have to do is look outside. Sometimes I have struggled, too, because my path is not as simple as those whose spirituality is more conventional. It seems harder to have to work the steps of recovery and follow my pagan path than to have a religion with concrete views of right and wrong and an omnipotent leader to follow. Wait... that doesn't so good after all - hmm, I guess I'm in the right place. Where have I heard that before????:D

[seawitch]

wow! thank you for sharing. your story is amazing. it is my story. for years i couldn't practice because i was drunk. i was so spiritauly bankrupt that i was on the verge of sucide. an when i did get treatment, i kind of had a hard time with almost everybody being christian, and the our father, and the majority of meetings that i was the only woman, but i found a great sponser, and i am not hardly resentful at all anymore. it would be great to meet more pagans in the program i think alot of people don't know there is an alterniative to christianity and therefore have a hard time with the spiritaul aspect of the whole thing
great to know you all are there
blessings aroura

[Shy Hawk]

(coughs) I'd like to say that I'm recovering from a prescrition drug addiction. And anything else that came in pill form.....

Though I never sought profession help for it....uh...it's always there, like in the back of my mind. I just don't let it get to me....that's probably not the most healthy way to go though. Just wanted to share.

[airmist]

It is SO nice not to be alone. Thanks for posting seawitch, aquinnah and shy hawk; I'm out to work, but will be back tonight.

[airmist]

As seawitch and aquinnah both said was true with them, my using interfered with and eventually became in complete opposition to my relationship with Gaia. That relationship had begun about 10 years before I got clean but hadn't developed into a real conscious one until about a year before. Then I began to hear from her that I couldn't keep doing to myself what I was doing. So I stopped talking to or having any type of relationship with her. 4 months later, after years of using and being unable to stop, I came to a painful end. With her help, I began to recover. It is, for me, a very slow process, but one which has resulted in a deep relationship with Gaia.

The process of recovery and my spiritual relationship are so interdependant I no longer try to understand which came first or where one stops and the other starts.

[EasternPriest]

Here's a thread we had going in August, before the healthy pagan forum started:http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6793

[airmist]

Thank you EP; it is nice to see more.

[aquinnah]

Hello again everyone - I've been off line as my computer has been sick for a while. Hope everyone here is well. A couple of weeks ago I went to a meeting outside of my area and they ended with the Lord's Prayer. That bums me out, but it gives me something to write about. Anyway, back to work, just wanted to check in and claim my cyberseat!

[Aengus McTeague]

Hi to all!

Good goddess, I got chills down my back reading this thread. I have just over a year clean and sober, after many years of failed attempts. One of my roadblocks in prior attempts was always the strong religious language contained in program literature and meetings.

In many ways i work a "traditional" program (step meetings, sponsor, etc) but am deeply in the closet about my spirituality. The area I live in (rural Northern California) is VERY traditional in some ways...meetings ALWAYS close with the lords prayer, and there is open ridicule of spiritual work that is too far of the path of traditional judeo-christian religion.

So, I just talk about my generic "higher-power" and remain respectfully silent during the prayer. I know there must be other recovering Pagans or Wiccans in my area, but have yet to meet any.

For me, only now, after a years sobriety, is it time to really explore my spirituality in depth. Many, many nights trying to do ritual or asking the Goddess for help while in a drunken stupor left me a little leery. But now IS the time for me to grow both my private spiritual life, and my connection with other like minded folk.

[seawitch]

welcome Aengus and thanks for sharing your story with us. we truely are everywhere
blessigs aroura

[Emerald Sky]

Originally posted by aquinnah
Hello again everyone - I've been off line as my computer has been sick for a while. Hope everyone here is well. A couple of weeks ago I went to a meeting outside of my area and they ended with the Lord's Prayer. That bums me out, but it gives me something to write about. Anyway, back to work, just wanted to check in and claim my cyberseat!

Every meeting I've ever been to closes with the Lord's Prayer. It doesn't bother me, really because I know what I believe. You have to remember that the whole program was based on a Christian interpretation of God, even though they say "God as we understood Him".

As far as revealing my spiritual beliefs at meetings, a lot of people know I'm Pagan. Some don't. When I talk about a higher power at tables, I usually just say my higher power. Sometimes I refer to it as he, sometimes I refer to it as she. I've never gotten any slack for my beliefs from fellow members of AA. If I ever do, I'll just tell them it's "as you understand him". ;)

Congrats, Aengus, on one year!

[seawitch]

that reminds me of a meeting i was at last year. i was reading the promises and inserted the feminine in stead of he or him , a few laughed but one guy looked at me with his jaw in his lap kind of befuddled
i got a laugh too

[aquinnah]

I did the same thing with the 12 Traditions at a meeting when I was new in recovery - suprisingly, a fellow pagan pulled me aside and suggested that I not change the wording of fellowship-approved literature. I can respect that. I read the literature (aloud) as written now, but I start the Serenity Prayer with "Goddess" sometimes. By the way, after green PURPLE IS MY FAVORITE COLOR! I love the new look!!!!:T

[Aengus McTeague]

There was an outstanding book, I think about 10 years ago, called Many Roads, One Journey, by Charlotte Kasl. In it, she included a much more inclusive version of the steps. And I believe she expanded the steps to number 16 instead of 12. It seemed at the time like she was hoping that groups would pop up using her version. Does anyone know if anything ever came of this?

[Shadowulfe]

Merry Meet to all,

I read the posts in this thread and thought i would let everyone know I support you efforts. allthough im not recovering from anything (drugs, alcohol, etc.) because i dont touch the stuff personally, i still do have a story to share.
I was raised in a family where my parents got drunk day in and day out and it got violent night after night.This went on from the age of 7 until shortly after my 17th birthday. from the first time i witnessed my Father hit my Mother I swore a few things. #1-I would never hit a lady, #2 if I did drink, it would only be on rare occasion #3-I would never get drunk. now the Drug side i have smoked weed on quite a few occasions....no more. I found out that it helps cause my epileptic condition and quit.

Brightest Blessings,
shadowulfe

[airmist]

First to the important things, I, too, absolutely love the new color.

Back to spirituality in recovery programs :) I have been less than a spiritual giant when the lead in to the Lord's Prayer "whose father" has been used by answering "not mine".

Like Aquinnah, I can differentiate between my spirituality and the need to keep the fellowship neutral, the whole higher power and god as we understand him concept. Someone needing to find a spirituality and recovery doesn't need to be put off by excessive references to anyone's god. Just as I didn't want to hear the Lord's Prayer.

From the recovery point of view and for newcomers, what I believe isn't important, only that I believe. But I do, on occasion, make a general or bland reference to my beliefs, just so that someone there who is new and wondering if it is ok to have pagan or any non traditional belief, knows someone else does.

[Emerald Sky]

Originally posted by airmist

Back to spirituality in recovery programs :) I have been less than a spiritual giant when the lead in to the Lord's Prayer "whose father" has been used by answering "not mine".

Ha ha ha ha:p

The rest of your message was very well put! Bravo.

Aengus, as far as changing the 12 steps to 16, I never heard about that, but I can't imagine it flew. Heck, we alcoholics can barely handle 12 of 'em. Anyway, these 12 have been working for decades! They don't seem to need any improvements. (Just my opinion)

[Swanspirit]

OUR Mother......... who art in heaven if I was leading ...... and people didnt mind....... some liked it and didnt even associate it with being pagan...... just keeping it "spiritual " instead of religious........ I mean what if I said ... OUR DOORKNOB..... who art in heaven........
:rotfl: :rotfl: ........
HUGS
Swannie

[aquinnah]

I have been less than a spiritual giant

NOOOOO...how could it be Airmist! Don't shatter my illusions this way.;) (stomps the ground with closed fists, shakes her head) No no no!


I'd better call my sponsor.:D Or talk to my doorknob....

[airmist]

Thanks for joining in Shadowulfe. Most of us in recovery become very aware of harm we caused while using. Maybe your parents can get there someday? It isn't any of my business, but I wanted to acknowledge what you posted.

Aengus mentioned being in rural Northern California. I am on Cape Cod and think the meetings here are pretty open to any spirituality, but I've run into some of theless open ones in other areas. I wonder if geography plays a part? Maybe which fellowship too?

I am enjoying everyone's thoughts and humor here; I'm going to be away for the weekend; I hope to "see" you all when I get back.

[airmist]

:) Aquinnah, I have to admit I didn't run out and tell my sponsor; as usual, I'm sure I know what I'd have heard--probably why I didn't ask?

[Swanspirit]

I certainly am not..... awwww I wouldnt worry about it....... you were probably trying to avoid that terminal uniqueness stuff ....... and doing a good job of it......
Now here in Old Ocean City......affectionately know to some as the LAST RESORT ..... we have all kinds of meetings........ in the winter when its "just us " we can bore ourselves silly ..... but we have fun more often than not.... and then in summer when the tourists come ......... LOTS of fun...... all those fresh 13 steppers too.... hehehehe and at the end of summer there is a HUGE convention........
I have been slacking and not going to the BIG things......hmmmm maybe I should check it out ......... you have me thinking now.....
Love and HUGS
Swannie

[airmist]

Now there is a subject to upset all sorts of serenity! Anyway, HUGS back Swannie, and anyone else still there.

I've been away for a week and it was really great; I didn't bring my computer :) so I had to read the old fashioned way.

[aquinnah]

Hi everyone - I've been off the boards for a while, what with work, meetings, service work, Samhain, and a horrible cold I didn't have much time or energy for anything else. When I got clean I thought I would be bored all the time and now my life is so full that I can't remember the last time I felt bored. I have been dealing with an incarcerated newcomer who is interested in paganism. He has been very manipulative lately, though, and I think his interest in paganism may stem from his failed relationship with another woman in my circle. I did pass on some recovery literature and some info I downloaded from the New Pagans forum, and then I told him I couldn't help him anymore. It's been amazing to see how insidious this disease is and how manipulative people can be. I remember when I was in jail, desparate to get out and telling anyone that would listen any lie I could think of to get what I wanted. I'm grateful I don't have to live like that anymore today:) .

[Swanspirit]

one of the FUN things to do is #1 either UPSET the Control freaks .......by doing anything spontaneous .....OR #2 call people on their 13th stepping LOL hehehe
just keep the PRE _ AL- ANONERS away from me LOL........... just kidding .......I dont mind as long as they are on their way to a meeting LOL............
HUGS HUGS
GODDESS BLESS
Swannie