Nostradumbest

[Swanspirit]

Merry Merry,,,
I almost put this in SILLY because it fits there too..... and I KNOW some of you are tired of hearing me go on about what an idiot NOSTRADUMBELL IS LOL but I have been thinking about this..........
Someone once said if all OLD Hairy Nostrils did was make us sit up and think , it would be a great contribution........ well that person must take a LONG time between THINKS :rotfl: :rotfl:
because scaring people ( and taking their money) is one of the easiest things to do ......and scaring people with slight of poetry and cryptic phrases ISNT making them THINK it is making them NOT THINK!!! and react to fear.... which is REALLY SAD in my estimation........
but anyway here is a link to an EXPERT on old HAiry Nostrils to keep him from blowing his FRAUDIAN NOSE on your handkerchief of reality
and its funny too ..... but THEN I enjoy seeing a fraud defrolicking.........like I enjoyed seeing Jimmy Swaggert getting caught .....and being stopped from taking all that money from those poor people ........


e following FAQ was compiled by Mr. Peter
Lemesurier and is being regularly posted in newsgroup
alt.prophecies.nostrdamus.



Q. Did Nostradamus predict the recent attack on New York City?

A. No. He never mentions New York City at all. Nor 'York', for that
matter.

Q. But he mentions America, surely?

A. Only once -- at quatrain X.66, which you can check for yourself on the
websites listed below. Apart from that, he himself insists in his covering
letter to King Henri II that his prophecies are mainly about Europe, North
Africa and Asia Minor. Only two other of his place-names fall outside that
area.

Q. But what about the famous 'Fire from the sky hitting the New City at 45
degrees' prediction at VI.97?

A. New York City is not at 45 degrees latitude (it's all of 300 miles to the
south), and the New City (as ever in Nostradamus) is Villeneuve-sur-Lot in
France ('Villeneuve', like 'Naples', *means* 'new city') -- which IS roughly
at 45 degrees.

Q. But couldn't Nostradamus's 'Five and forty' mean mean '40.5'?

A. No. The decimal place system had not yet been invented in
Nostradamus's day. It was simply a perfectly ordinary way of saying '45'.

Q. But what about all the Nostradamus quatrains that people keep posting
here?

A. Virtually all of them are either

(a) badly corrupt, and deliberately twisted to fit the events (b) hopeless
mistranslations, deliberately twisted to fit the events, or (c) pure inventions,
and not by Nostradamus at all.

Q. What about "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two
brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader
will succumb", "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" -
Nostradamus 1654." ?

A. None of this was written by Nostradamus -- and he would have been ..
er... 150 years old in 1654! If you doubt it, ask whoever sent it to you for
the verse-number and/or the original French.

Q. What about "In the year of the new century and nine months,from the
sky will come a great king of terror...the sky will burn at 45 degrees. Fire
approaches the great new city...In the city of york there will be great
collapse, twin brothers.Torn apart by chaos while the fortresses fall, the
great leader will succumb; the third big war will come when the big city is
burning."

A. It's a garbled mixture of carefully selected lines from two different
Nostradamus quatrains (X.72, which in the original doesn't even mention a
'King of Terror' -- see third website listed below -- and is about *1999*
[!!]; and VI.79, whose 'new city' on 45 degrees is Villeneuve in SW
France, not New York, which is on 40 degrees 40 minutes) plus a bunch of
other lines that are not by Nostradamus at all.

Anybody can garble quotations like that -- even with the Bible... Er... "And
he went and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5). Go, and do thou likewise
(Luke 10:37)."

Q. How about: "Earth-shaking fire from the center of the earth. Will cause
the towers around the New City to shake, Two great rocks for a long time
will make war, And then Arethusa will color a new river red. "

A. A more reliable (and artistic) translation of I.87 (which doesn't mention
towers at all) would read:

Earth-shaking fires from the world's centre roar: About Villeneuve* the
earth shall be a-quiver. Two leaders long shall wage a fruitless war, Till
Arethusa reddens a new river.

* = 'New City

Line 3 is in fact based on a French expression ('faire la guerre aux rochers'
-- 'to make war on the rocks') which in fact means 'to struggle fruitlessly'.
'Deux grands' means 'two nobles'.

No obvious connection with New York!

Q. What about:

Garden of the world near the new city, In the path of the hollow mountains,
It will be seized and plunged into the Vat, Drinking by force the waters
poisoned by sulfur?

A. Relax. It's nothing to do with New York. The 'garden of the world' is
Eden, which means 'delight', which is 'plaisance' in French, which is the
name of a village on the road north from Villeneuve (= 'new city')-sur-Lot
to the Dordogne, with its caves and the village of Aubeterre('Dawn of the
World')-sur-Dronne, with its hollowed out church and tombs...

All that the quatrain predicts is that someone ('he', not 'it') will be immersed
and poisoned at Plaisance - which of course lies in an area that at one time
was very familiar to Nostradamus during his time at Agen.

This is one of Nostradamus's many obvious 'local' quatrains, in other
words. His horizons were a lot smaller than many people often give him
credit for. There is absolutely no excuse for imagining that all of his
predictions apply to huge world-events.

Q. Can't I believe Erika Cheetham's book or Orson Welles's film, then?

A. No, unfortunately not, especially as the film is based directly - and rather
fancifully -- on the book. Erika performed a valuable service in making
some of the original French texts available worldwide for the first time --
but, alas, her 16th century French wasn't up to translating them reliably, and
her credulity got in the way of her interpreting them reliably.

Q. Is there to be no Antichrist with a blue turban, then, calling down nuclear
missiles on New York, as in the film?

A. Not if Nostradamus himself is to be believed. For him, the target of the
Antichrist was always going to be *Europe* -- and, moreover, he would
eventually be defeated.

this at this link and more..... so the NEXT time someone tries to get you think , you can have some reliable information ......
http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/nycfaq.html
Love and light
Swannie

[Danustouch]

Swannie...

This is Just Me as a member, not as a mod or anything, since this is not my forum. But...the SECOND I opened this post, I got a tone off of it that made me VERY uncomfortable. Sometimes, posts can come off as more offensive than they are meant to be, and I realize that. I also realize that Nostradamus has been dead for years, so probably doesn't give a FIG what we think about him. However..there ARE people who find value in his teachings. NOW...whether or not you think they SHOULD..they do. Gently pointing out the discrepencies in his prophesies, posting links where people could read the evidence you've read about him, etc, is one thing. But...the tone of your post, kinda makes it feel as if you are calling the people who READ his material...stupid. Not just that HE was stupid..but that anyone who believes him is stupid. If that makes sense. I'm not trying to censor you, or anything like that..I just think that maybe you could tone down the inflections in your posts..and be aware of your wording a little more, because in my experience, people respond VERY much on the defensive to posts like this, and the tone you posted it with , generally, could raise some hackels. You know what I mean? It's not the material that needs to be censored, nor your opinion. Nothing like that. Just that you might choose to do some self censoring (in the loosest of terms)..to make sure that your posts don't immediately turn people off from your post. I mean.you do want them to read the info..right???????

[Swanspirit]

I am sorry if you find this thread off putting........ but the astrologers of his day despised him and I understand why ...... he made his money by selling FAKE CURES to plague victims. He was essentially a snake oil salesman of the worst kind ......making money from dying desperate peole .......
Most of the things people beleive about him are not based in fact but in the myth that was created after he died.
And the problem I am having NOW is that once again people are vulnerable and fearful and some people are using him to pander to those fears ,, and taking advantage of people when they are vulnerable. I find that reprrehensible....even the web site devoted to the truth about him says this...........Update 18, 2001

A more in depth analysis of Nostradamus predicting the attack
on NYC has been posted on NYC FAQ page.

Update Sept 13, 2001

It is hard to understand why some people are using such a
tragic event to spread more fear using the name of
Nostradamus but unfortunately that is the case.

By the way, Nostradamus died in 1566 so anything with
"Nostradamus 1654" should give you a clue.
Perhaps people themselves are so fearful that they are grasping at straws to find some answers.....but some people use this pandering to fear with predictions of the end of th e world to make themselves look important , or make money or get some kind of attention....... all at the expense of people who are already victims either directly or indirectly......
Some people "respect" Jerry Falwell.. but that doesnt mean I have to .........neither does it mean I have to refrain from denouncing his hypocrisy....Taking advantage of a horrible tragedy to pint fingers at people ......
I just think a lot of people dont realise what a hypocrite Nostradamus was...... and here are more people "taking advantage of a tragedy"
I know that when i found the truth about him I was greatly relieved and grateful to be out from under some irrational fear that someone predicted the end of the world ......
The same way I view the apocalyptic visions in the bible .... a cultural destruction myth that complements the creation myths that many cultures have..... and it is pretty common to see those myths used to create fear in people as well with threats of hellfire and damnation......something that as a pagan and a lover of the earth I dont have in my belief system......
Thank you for your kind input , gave me a chance to explain myself.....
Love and light
Swannie

[Danustouch]

Now...had your ORIGINAL post, come off like THIS....I wouldn't have had a problem with it :) The info you have provided is good information. And it should be read, even if some people don't agree with it. It is always valuable to look at things from differen't angles before making up your opinion..and yes..I agree with the whole 1566/1654 thing. It was only your TONE in the original post which I disagreed with. Your words were just a little too strong, your tone, immediately putting people on the defensive. It was just an observation I made. I'm glad you explained your feelings better in your second post, and thank you for the information.

[Myst]

I've looked upon Nostradamus' work much as I look upon my tarot readings for myself or the horoscope I read in the paper - interesting and plausible but I wouldn't change my life to fit around them. Things like that do give people pause to think, and if they change their life drastically according to just that maybe they should read the fine print - "this is for entertainment purposes only".

[Twilight]

yes willow raven! that's very much the case! as with any-thing, you put your belief in a prophecy very much at your own personal risk.

i just wonder why a charlitan is so well remembered, maybe because he is a martyr kind of maybe?

[gunner]

o.k., let's do vague prophecies;

"the ancient one will arise to drink the bitter, dark cup, in the evening his affairs may go happily"

anyone care to interpet that?

[talamh]

The Crone consults her oracle... points her crooked claw finger, fixes you with her piercing, ancient gaze and intones... "Gunner's gonna have a nap after supper and then down a brew or two and relax a bit".

Did i get it right, huh? huh? huh?
bb talamh

[Swanspirit]

"just wonder why a charlitan is so well remembered, maybe
because he is a martyr kind of maybe?"
Well...... why is "CLEO" so popular?? LOL anyone promising people answers ...... always gets attention I think.... and he did or at least his son did "play the martyr" angle too.
Part of his legend was that he was persecuted by the inquisition......he was interviewed once or twice ............
He "Old Hairy Nostrils " managed to avoid any real problems from the inquisition.....makes me wonder how he managed that .......although I cant fault him for not wanting to be persecuted......I am incredulous as to how it gets turned around as persecution....
Love and Light....
Swannie

[gunner]

close talamh, very close but not quite but as i speak i've fulfilled part of the prophecy.

[Swanspirit]

dont you use sugar or cream in your coffee??
Love and Laughter.....
Swannie

[gunner]

you're close enough swannie, translation follows.

"the ancient one will arise to drink the bitter, dark cup, in the evening his affairs may go happily"

"the old man gets up and has his morning coffee, in the evening he hopes to get laid"

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

^^^ lol....niceeeeee........

[Swanspirit]

I wasnt going to venture on the happily going affairs ............Mother Shipton I am not ROFLMAO
gunner ..... you are cracking me up again......
HUGS
Swannie

[Swanspirit]

Well ,it isnt hard to figure out Nostradamus who was supposed to BE an astrologer got mad at them for crticising his work ...... heheheh
INCANTATION OF THE LAW AGAINST INEPT CRITICS

Let those who read this verse consider it profoundly,
Let the profane and the ignorant herd keep away:
And far away all Astrologers, Idiots and Barbarians,
May he who does otherwise be subject to the sacred rite.
LOL was he talking about himself ???he is SO Cryptic.... sometimes .....

and because everyone can draw their own conclusions .....this is from the website of the author.......Peter Lemesurier's post on common myths and hoaxes about Nostradamus in
a.p.n.

Q. Wasn't Nostradamus a Jew who converted to Christianity?

A. No, so far as is known only his father's side of the family was
Jewish -- and his paternal grandfather Pierre de Nostredame converted
some forty years before Nostradamus was born!

Q. But surely he is supposed to have inherited his prophetic gift
from the Israelite tribe of Issachar?

A. He always claimed that his gift came from his mother's side of the
family, not his father's.

Q. Didn't he believe that the planets went around the sun even
before Copernicus?

A. There is no evidence of this.

Q. Wasn't Nostradamus educated by his grandfathers, who were
distinguished doctors at the court of King René of Provence?

A. No. For a start, his grandfathers were nothing of the kind (the
story seems to have been invented by his admiring son César -- who was
rather given to such family propaganda --around a century later).
Secondly, his paternal grandfather Pierre was merely a merchant at
Avignon -- if a well-to-do one -- while his maternal grandfather René
de St-Rémy apparently died before the future seer was even born. And
thirdly, the child seems to have been educated by (if anybody) his
maternal GREAT grandfather Jean de St-Rémy, who had indeed been a
doctor -- but only a local one, and apparently town treasurer to boot.

Q. But surely it's correct that he went to Montpellier in 1521 to
study medicine?

A. No. He himself states in his 'Traité des fardemens et confitures'
that he spent the years from 1521 to 1529 wandering the countryside in
search of cures and remedies. There is no record at Montpellier of his
presence there during this time -- and when he finally turned up in
1529 he was promptly booted out again for having, *as an apothecary*,
been rude about doctors! His written enrolment survives, as does the
record of his expulsion again...

Q. But he did qualify as a doctor, surely?

A. There is no actual record even of this, though it may reasonably be
assumed from later circumstantial evidence.

Q. But he must have qualified, surely, if he went on to teach at
the Montpellier Faculty?

A. Not only is there absolutely no record of his teaching there, but
by 1531 he had turned up at Agen, so leaving no time for such
teaching...

Q. OK -- wasn't his first wife at Agen named Audriette de
Loubéjac?

A. No. (Try telling that to Scaliger, whose wife she was!!) Her name
was Henriette d'Encausse.

Q. Weren't she and her two children killed by the plague, then?

A. Nobody knows what they died of.

Q. But surely it is true that Nostradamus was persecuted by the
Spanish Inquisition for heresy there?

A. It is said that the Inquisition *of Toulouse* invited him to
explain to them a remark he had made about the qualities of a bronze
casting of the Virgin Mary -- but there is no actual record of this.

Q. But he WAS persecuted by the Inquisition, surely -- if not
then, at least for writing his prophecies?

A. There is no record of his ever having been even investigated by the
Inquisition for his prophetic activities: in fact he was always on the
best of terms with the Church.

Q. But the Encyclopedia Britannica states that he was placed on
the Vatican's Index of Forbidden Books in 1781, surely?

A. Yes -- and Britannica is wrong, as also about several other matters
relating to Nostradamus. His name is in fact nowhere mentioned in any
of the Vatican's editions of the Index -- and investigations of the 25
actual editions at the Bibliothéque Municipale de Lyon have revealed
that there was in fact NO edition of it issued in 1781! Indeed, his
Almanach for 1562 even contains an open letter to the then Pope!

Q. But surely everyone knows that his religiosity was just a
cover for his magical activities?

A. All the evidence suggests that he was in fact a deeply pious Roman
Catholic with a strong leaning towards the Franciscan movement.
Take his secretary Chavigny's statement after his death:

"He approved the Ceremonies of the Roman Church and remained faithful
to the Catholic faith and religion, holding that outside it there was
no salvation. He gravely reproved those who, having withdrawn from its
embrace, were prepared to let themselves be fed and watered by the
easy-going freedoms of damnable foreign doctrines. Their end, he
asserted, would be evil and nasty."

Then take the fact that he gave money to the Franciscans, was on good
terms with the Archbishop of Arles, stayed in Paris with the powerful
Archibishop of Sens, treated various bishops, left money to two
Franciscan convents, was buried in Salon's Franciscan chapel, and had
a son who joined the order...

As for the supposed incompatitility between Christianity and magic,
Renaissance thinkers were in fact still wrestling with the problem of
how to reconcile pagan practices with Christian beliefs at the time,
notably in connection with Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel ceiling: it
wouldn't befinally decided in favour of the latter for some decades.

Q. Isn't it true that he became a highly successful Plague
doctor?

A. It depends what you mean by successful. He gained a reputation and
made a lot of money out of it, certainly. But he himself admits that,
during the outbreak at Aix-en-Provence, none of his methods actually
worked.

Q. But surely I have read that he used advanced antiseptics,
recommended exercise and a diet low in animal fats, and refused to
bleed his patients?

A. The first three suggestions are the purest fantasy, while he
himself admits in his 'Traité' that he DID bleed his patients - and
that it didn't work! His celebrated 'rose-pills' (for which he offers
the recipe in the book) seem to have been used purely as a
prophylactic. There is no actual evidence that his methods differed
much from the traditional ones -- apart from his known keenness on
running water, which may possibly suggest that he instituted new
regimes of public hygiene.

Q. Didn't he write the Prophecies of Orval in 1542?

A. No. Their style and language make it perfectly obvious that they
were written in around the time of Napoleon, whose reign they pretend
to prophesy (no doubt that's why Napoleon constantly carried them
around with him!). Orval (on the Belgian frontier) was in the middle
of a war-zone between France and the Holy Roman Emperor in 1542 -- so
it is highly unlikely that academic travellers such as Nostredame (as
he then was) would have ventured anywhere near it at the time.

Q. When visiting Italy, he recognised a young Franciscan friar as
a future Pope, and knelt before him. That proves that he was a true
prophet, doesn't it?

A. There is absolutely no historical or archival record of any such
incident.

Q. But then, on returning to Salon, he turned to writing his
Centuries?

A. No. He first wrote his cookbook (the 'Traité des fardemens et des
confitures') and started on his series of annual Almanachs, with which
he continued until the end of his life. Both were in fact much better
known and more widely bought than his later Propheties.

Q. And their predictions for the weather and crop prospects were
always right?

A. No, in fact they seem to have been more often wrong than right -
sometimes calamitously so.

Q. But surely if people kept buying them they must have been
right?

A. If people kept buying them it was presumably because they hoped
that next time they MIGHT be!

Q. But his main book of prophecies was entitled the 'Centuries',
right?

A. Wrong. 'Centuries' was merely a generic description of the ten
books of 100 verses that it was designed to contain. Its actual title
was 'Les Propheties de M. Michel Nostradamus'.

Q. And he wrote them by scrying with the aid of a bowl of water
or a magic mirror?

A. There is no evidence whatever that he used a bowl of water for
scrying -- or a magic mirror, for that matter. The bowl of water (as
you can see from his first two verses) was purely for dipping his feet
and the hem of his robe into after the model of the Greek oracles --
it seems to have contained water giving off aromatic fumes. As for the
'mirror', he simply states that his visions came to him 'comme dans un
mirouer ardant' ('as in a burning-mirror' -- i.e. a concave mirror
used for concentrating the sun's rays). Try looking into a shaving
mirror sometime and you'll see what he meant!

Q. But he did use magic spells?

A. Nobody knows -- though he implies that he used the classical
techniques of theurgy, which amounts to much the same thing. However,
he was a truly magical bullshitter, so you can never be sure!

Q. At least he was a superb astrologer, though, wasn't he?

A. No, in fact he was a positively awful astrologer, as the
contemporary professionals constantly pointed out and his surviving
horoscopes still reveal. He was prone to put planets in the wrong
signs and the sun in two different parts of the sky at once, and never
did get the hang of interpolating between the figures given in the
published tables. That is why the astrologers of the day so despised
him, and why he in turn dissociated himself from them, and claimed
instead to be a simple 'astrophile' ('star-lover') who was directly or
indirectly inspired by God Himself!

Q. So he was always right, then?

Q. Well, in his Epistle to King Henri II he did claim that, when
divinely inspired (whether directly, via the planets or via his
guiding spirit or claimed Guardian Angel [Michael, naturally!]), he
was capable of not erring, failing or being deceived. But then, in his
letter to the Canons of Orange of 4th February 1562, he pointed out
that, as a human being, he could quite easily do all three. Which of
course poses the interesting question...how, *as a human being*, could
he be absolutely sure of when he was being divinely inspired?!

Q. One way or the other, though, he did manage to write his
prophecies -- in code?

A. No, he wrote his prophecies in rhyming verse. Code this may seem to
those unfamiliar with 16th century French poetry (many of whom fail to
notice even that it is in verse!), but none of the various 'code'
theories has ever managed to gain the general support of serious
commentators on the subject.

Q. But he did use anagrams, surely?

A. So did most writers of the time -- but only occasionally, and for
the most part solely in respect of proper names, which they did rather
like to disguise, whether for fun or for self-protection.

Q. But surely Nostradamus's use of huge numbers of Latin and
Greek words suggests that he was up to something?

A. Not necessarily. Using classical words was all the rage at the
time. Educated people could understand them perfectly well (they also
knew what his frequent references to classical history and mythology
were about). Nostradamus merely pushed it to extremes in order to veil
his meaning from the ignorant. Evidently he is still succeeding!

Q. Can't I get at his meaning by translating each of his words
into English with my pocket French-English dictionary, then?

A. No. This doesn't work even with modern French texts. And it sure as
hell doesn't work with 16th century poetry -- least of all
Nostradamus's!! Always try to remember that he was writing poetry, not
legal documents -- and he was not thinking about how it might
translate into English, either!

Q. So when he was summoned to Paris to meet the King and Queen in
1556...

A. He wasn't. Contemporary correspondence makes it perfectly plain
that it was in 1555, shortly after his first edition appeared.

Q ...he went there by coach, as in the film...

A. No, he rode on horseback -- probably one of a train of royal
pack-horses reserved for the royal mail. Coaches had not yet come into
general use -- not least because there were no roads for them to
travel on. Even the Queen rode in a litter, not a coach.

Q. ...and was questioned by her on the meaning of verse I.35,
about the King's approaching death in a duel?

A. Nothing is known about the content of the interview.

Q. But surely writers such as Cheetham and Hogue disagree with
you on much of this, as does the Orson Welles film/video?

A. Unfortunately their biographical accounts are all ludicrously
inaccurate, and do not square with the documented facts. Most of
their assertions seem to be based on unsourced rumours originally
floated in print during the 19th century in the absence of any known
reliable contemporary evidence!

Q. Didn't Nostradamus prophesy his own death in Presage 141?

A. Probably not. True, his secretary Chavigny later assumed that that
was what it was about - so starting the long and shaky tradition that
you could retrospectively fit Nostradamus's predictions to anything
you liked. But in fact Presage 141 is specifically dated for November
1567 - whereas the seer in fact died in July 1566. So if this verse IS
a prediction of his death, he got the date wrong...

Q. But surely it is at least true that Nostradamus was buried
upright so that people should not walk on his body?

A. There is absolutely no evidence for this, nor is any provision to
this effect contained in his will.

Q. But isn't it the case that, when his body was dug up at the
French Revolution, they found a medallion around his neck bearing the
exact date of the exhumation?

A. No. This is a pure urban myth with no evidence whatever to back it
up -- as the wonderful ability of the alleged date to change from
account to account more than amply demonstrates!

When i read that his first book was a COOKBOOK.....
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I dont think I would follow any of his recipes either ........
Love and Light
Swannie