Plastic Shamanism

[ShamanFeather]

Recently I was going through some old posts through another forum and they had a forum entitled plastic shamanism basically talking about modern day people who call themselves shamans but aren't. Basically these claim to have Native American heritages that they don't have and claim to pull out of Native beliefs but really are misdirected and bastardized forms of Native American heritage that have been digested and chewed out in another form. and calls it indiginous shamanism. This thread lead to a list of links that supported their cause of how plastic shamanism is wrong and included a link to a list of books that said what was wrong with a whole bunch of titles claiming to have Native American influence.

I can understand why they are upset that their cultures are being misrepresented in these books when as far as I understand that many are trying to keep their heritages alive. These books could make it even more difficult to keep their heritages alive and spreads misunderstandings about their spirituality.

On the same token however when we look at what is termed the New Age Spiritualities, the term shamanism has exploded. To some terming their path Shamanistic implies a powerful background and abilities that they wish to have or even pulls on the mystism that tends to follow this word. To others, sadly enough, they pull on the term shamanism to make a huge profit on a rather well marked, hefty word.

Yet there are many people who claim they are not shamans but follow a shamanistic path, which I'm sure still ticks a bunch of people off. Yet here we have a conundrum, we have a clash of two cultures, that of the modern day whos numbers have welled up like water behind a dam, and those Native American (even Russion and other cultures) traditions and culture who have ages of tradition, ritual and methods.

I find myself to follow what I would call a shamanistic path, based in what I believe to be some of the Native American traditions but also of wiccan, animist, and who knows what else. I use the term shamanistic though as it most closely resembles what people think of when people here that term. I have been taught by my animal spirits, and of course through books and my life experiences. I do not in anyway use the term shamanism to try to gain power or show some sort of supreme Native American wisdom. I myself also see no problem with charging for spiritual services. Why? Because it is a trading of energy. As long as one does it with the true intention of wanting to help other people and the money factor there is merely there because one has to support themselves. Indeed I wish I could live in a society that based more of its economical functions in trading, but I am aware that with such a large population this is simply not practical for all transactions for the levels ar epopulations are at. I could go on about this further but this is not the point of these writings.

I don't think that the evolution of New Age Shamanism has gotten to any point where there is a distinct and discreet set of rules and ritual, nor do I think there ever will be. At best perhaps we can see different terms for different collectives of thoughts and philosphies in the shamanistic realm which is shown in the different types of wicca.

Today's new age shamanism is as different as the original indigenous shamans as protestents are to catholics. Why not take this extra step and create a new name for these traditions. In that way we would not be desecrating the old ways using a word that although is still used in our society, really doesn't fit the way it used to be. That way these new age shamanism books could be written and those wishing to learn these ways would know the difference between those practices and ideologies that have been developed more recently off of possibly Native American or indigenous roots and those that have pulled directly from a specific tribe or area.

I want to be able to call myself something without the fear of offending someone (not just because I don't want to offend them but because I want to respect their ways), but at the same time using a word that people will know some of the practices and traditions that I follow. I want to be able to use what tools work for me even if they were not used in the ancient days. Its not that I don't take my practices seriously or think that whatever term is used to describe my shamanistc practices should mean just someone who has a certain style of ritual. I think a new word should be used and if someone asks what that is then you could say it is based off of evolved indigenous practices which in turn will still help to keep the connotations that the word shamanism currently is often usef for which what I believe includes a pursuits of arduous work on the spiritual, physical, and mental levels both to help oneself and the world around them. It is simply not practical that everyone following a shamanstic pursuit in this age can have a community to dedicate themselves fully and totally to especially without some sort of exchange. This new term would hopefully help to buffer those taboos associated with energy exchange in a monetary method and would also allow for people to use methods of evolved indigenous method to help themselves on a personal level without making it their day jobs as it seems many websites seems to point out being a Shaman should be.

In addition this term would help to seperate themselves from the word Shaman that often demands you be called to this position although this would not necessarily mean that one wasn't called. Although the traditional methods of being called often involved near death experiences, what about those who wish to use shamanistic type practices of healing within their community to a lesser degree without the harrowing call. In many traditions a call to serve does not involve such a deadly experience, but may be a dream, a vision or even a strong urging where numerous signs continually pop up in ones life. Perhaps those of divinity feel that new methods of calling are just as effective or that they are more proper in certain instances. I am not divinity I do not know.

Of all these things I do know that the shamanistic practices no matter what tradition you come from seems to have validity, and I its time a new term is came up for these new age shamans who pull from indigenous cultures, modern day psychology, and technology. Yes, there would be those who abuse this new term, but there are also those who abuse the term Wicca, and those in the churches who call themselves Christian but only go to church as much as a trained dog comes when you call it. A new spiritual term for these practices would respect those of indeginous culture wishing to keep their traditions pure due to the new word creating a seperation between these new practices and theres, but also recognize there is a new evolved form of spirituality that pulls from all of these places. Both deserve respect, if it is a word that needs to be changed so be it. All forms of spirituality have a beauty all their own I think adding another word to the spiritual communities would help recognize, differentiate, and respect those of the different paths past and present.


-In respect-
ShamanFeather

It is not my intend to disrespect or belittle anyone in those both but mearly reflect on the validity of the changing earth based spiritualities of the modern day but also acknowledge and respect those who feel that these changing traditions no longer reflect the original methods enough to still be drawing from a word that has been twisted more then an automobile hit by a speeding semi and propose a method that peace and compromise might be attained.

[Sage Rainsong]

I think it is okay for people to say that they follow a shamanic path. However they should know the differences between popular shamanism and classic shamanism. I don't think it makes popular shamanism less valid but rather the distinction should be made out of respect for indigenous peoples. I personally like this article on it.

http://cauldronfarm.com/writing/shaman_compare.html

[Aine of the Fae]

If you consider that Shaman is a word referring to the healer priests of the Russian Steppes... Native Americans have no more right to claim the word than anyone else!!!!

Word Snobs drive me nuts.... It's a word!!! Who cares who uses it, it's just a label, and if you have to have a label to define yourself, then you really aren't being yourself!

[ShamanFeather]

Thats true however there is a lot of misconceptions when you start bringing up labels. And whether we like it or not we have to have language to define things. Why not simply instate a new label with less misconceptions to better define it.

Words are very powerful. I have seen many book explaining different frequencies of letters and words. If a label isn't important than why is there so much thought put into craft names why have them at all if words aren't important?

[Kendrah]

I have no problem with people parading as Shaman's, whether they are NA or not, whether they have two cents with them or not. I find that those who try to hold onto things, try to keep them away from others, tend not to have anything themselves.

Those that play Shaman either move on or move deeper into practice. Who am I to judge that such-and-such is a flake and mustn't touch something. They're there for a reason. I trust and hope they find what they need to evolve further on their paths. That's my only prayer for them.

[Storm]

I think the planetary ancestors...be them Russian, Norse, or Native American would be be saying it's about bloody time we begin to find our spirits again. I think they would share their knoweledge, not hoard it like a spoiled jealous child.
We can only learn through history and we can only help but evolve. The world is what it is and shamanism must evolve too.
I have the calling. I am still learning. I am a spirit healer in training. In three hundred years my practices will be included in books on core shamanism of the 21st century,whether or not I use the term shamanism to describe myself. And I also see no reason a healer should not be paid for services.
I don't parade as anything. I am what I am. I also am not playing shamanism and I don't believe I must move on, only that I must continue to grow and learn and evolve. Those terms somehow offended me but I am sure that was not intentional.

[Kendrah]

I don't parade as anything. I am what I am. I also am not playing shamanism and I don't believe I must move on, only that I must continue to grow and learn and evolve. Those terms somehow offended me but I am sure that was not intentional.

I wasn't directing my comment at you, nor were they aimed at you. It was my take on the original post of someone being "plastic". They have nothing to do with you.

Some people who "get into" Shamanism are very fluffy and they stay or go, for better or worse. Some people who "get into" Shamanism are hard core learners and they come or go. Some people are dabblers, and they stay or go. Such is life. I didn't point my finger and say that "all will go". I'm saying it's their choice and we have no right to say whether they stay or go, nor can we with hold which is not ours. Nor do we have the right to put ourselves above them.

:strike:

[arctic splash]

I understand how many Native Americans feel about those who learn a little bit of indigenous lore and then proceed to use their rituals or practises in a watered-down fashion and in a totally different context. I have great respect for Native traditions, and if a group of Natives were generous enough to teach me about their spirituality, I would make sure I understood it well enough before even asking permission to integrate it in my own life. There are exceptions to this, of course, but in general, I would try to show them the utmost respect. We have trampled upon indigenous peoples enough. There are trust issues, in the Native community, and a lot of fear about white people taking their traditions. It takes time to gain their trust (and I can't blame them), but with time, if we show that we understand and respect their traditions, many are willing to teach non-Natives the native ways. It just takes a lot of hard work. If you're really interested in Native traditions, I think the hard work is worth it.

That said. The word 'shaman' is not Native American in origin, so if the objection is to the word, then I see no case (I think it's Siberian). Many cultures throughout the world have practised a form of what has come to be called 'shamanism.' Many indigenous cultures that have been extinct for hundreds or thousands of years had traditions that would fit in what we call 'shamanism.' Anthropology has shown, I think, that there are some pretty universal aspects of what we call shamanism. I see no problem with drawing on what is anthropologically universal. Also, isn't what you're taking about often called Neo-Shamanism? Like Neo-Pagan, most people just shorten it. That's okay. You're not taking a sacred sweat lodge ceremony and doing your own thing with it, are you? You're not calling yourself a _______, or whatever the word for 'shaman' in a particular Native language is, are you?

We all probably have roots in cultures where shamanism was practised. If you call your path a shamanic path, I see no problem with it. I do have a problem with modern civilisation on many levels, and if I'm trying to return to an older way of being, where else am I going to turn? I say, pursue your path, but respect is essential when dealing with indigenous traditions. If you work with indigenous beliefs, I recommend you get involved in the indigenous community, and try to build some bridges. But that requires lots of respect and understanding... something that a lot of indigenous peoples think 'we' don't have.

Unless someone has something to add that I haven't considered, I don't think I have a problem with people claiming to follow a shamanistic path. At least for me, it represents a returning to an older way of living, something that Western civilisation has unfortunately long lost. Like the word 'pagan,' for me, it represents a willingness to learn from ancient wisdom, and hopefully, put it into practise. There are techno-pagans and techno-shaman... but is it still a starting point in reconnecting with an older way of being, acknowledging lost wisdom?

Otherwise, aren't we bound to be forever 'modern,' forever imprisoned in Western civilisation, forever ignoring the wisdom of our ancestors who had so much wisdom that is desperately needed in this world right now? I may be talking like a primitivist, but that's what I am. ;)

It's about what Margot Adler wrote in DDTM:

"Animism is used to imply a reality in which all things are imbued with vitality. The ancient world view did not conceive of a separation between 'animate' and 'inanimate.' All things from rocks and trees to dreams were considered to partake of the life force. At some level Neo-Paganism is an attempt to reanimate the world of nature; or, perhaps more accurately, Neo-Pagan religions allow their participants to reenter the primeval world view, to participate in nature in a way that is not possible for most Westerners after childhood. The Pagan revival seems to be a survival response to the common urban and suburban experience of our culture as 'impersonal,' 'neutral,' or 'dead.'"

[Paracelsus]

A useful, if somewhat difficult, text in this debate is Robert Wallis' "Shamans/Neo-Shamans". Wallis is both an academic and a practitioner, and thus a good deal of this work is a relexive examination of his situation - which he terms an "auto-archaeology".
My own feeling is that the key indicator of whether or not one is a Shaman is the recognition granted by one's own community - if you are regarded as a shaman, then you are one! This would seem to be a pretty good rule of thumb for both indigenous shamanism and contemporary western practice. Though of course in the modern west, being recognised as a Shaman is probably harder - but not impossible.

[Bethra]

Here here to this, I think it its most prosumtious to call oneself a Shaman it was and still should be a titel that is bisowed up a suitable person. You can follow a Shamanic path by all means but you ain't one till someone else says your one

[Ben Gruagach]

The term Shaman is like the term Witch and the term Wiccan. The problem I have is that it seems there are specific groups who are getting all upset about whether someone else is "allowed" to use the term, when the term itself is not the exclusive property of any of these groups who are complaining.

As others have already pointed out, the term Shaman originated in a specific ethnic group in Sibera and isn't one that was ever traditionally used among anyone outside that particular Siberian group. So if there is one group that "owns" the label Shaman it's that Siberian ethnic group and no one else.

I'm not sure that any group can really do much about others borrowing their ideas or practices and using them in different ways. Sure, the whole point of an idea or practice might be lost, but I'm not sure how other people doing their own thing makes what I do any less valid or important to me. It's a case of people worrying more about what their neighbors might be doing than focussing on what they themselves are doing.

There is something, though, in being concerned about people who are taking on specific titles for themselves that they have not earned. For instance, I am not a Roman Catholic person, I'm not part of their church hierarchy or clergy, so I would have absolutely no right to start going around saying I'm a Roman Catholic Priest. There are specific methods that are in place if I do want to earn that particular title. If I really want that title, I'd have to follow those rules and be ordained by the Vatican-approved authorities.

Anyone can call themselves a Shaman, but only people who are recognized as such by specific tribal groups have the right to call themselves a Shaman for that particular tribe. I can call myself a Witch or even a Wiccan, but I can't call myself a Gardnerian Wiccan or Alexandrian Wiccan without going through their official training and initiation system.

[Storm]

I wasn't directing my comment at you, nor were they aimed at you. It was my take on the original post of someone being "plastic". They have nothing to do with you.

Some people who "get into" Shamanism are very fluffy and they stay or go, for better or worse. Some people who "get into" Shamanism are hard core learners and they come or go. Some people are dabblers, and they stay or go. Such is life. I didn't point my finger and say that "all will go". I'm saying it's their choice and we have no right to say whether they stay or go, nor can we with hold which is not ours. Nor do we have the right to put ourselves above them.

:strike:
I am good with that.:)

I also agree with not calling oneself a shaman until others have bestowed that title upon you.

I am and will always be comfortable with the term Spirit Healer.

[arctic splash]

I also agree with not calling oneself a shaman until others have bestowed that title upon you.

The next question is, who is qualified to bestow the title of shaman upon someone? Is it consensus, or what?

[Storm]

Okay so maybe some people for whom you would do the shaman thing would not know to call you anything else other than yourself. And I guess I am okay with that. Maybe if you've helped people and you do it well and people come to you for help and people come to you to learn, you may have earned the title. I may be good at the shaman thing for myself in my own life but I have yet to work on others ( I am learning). Never would I consider saying I am a shaman, for now. Maybe it's part of becoming a shaman to look at yourself objectively and truthfully and decide if you've earned the title or not. Therefore, if you call yourself a shaman you have either earned it or are a fool. Part of Shamanism is break down of ego. You should not get a power trip from going around calling yourself a shaman. It should be earned.
Search yourself, know yourself, know your motivation.

I myself am a paradox. I despise the human race as a whole. Yet I am fascinated with the individual. I want to help myself, my family, my friends and finally my community, get in touch with themselves, become involved with their healing process, making their souls whole again. This is my motivation. I believe I have been called to it. Perhaps someday I will earn the title but I am not concerned with that. Just doing it is good enough for me.

[dreamweaver]

To begin with we have to take a look at what the term shamanism means.I have studied it for over fourty seven years now and will the remainder of my life.

To begin with shamanism is not a religion or a spiritual path.It is a set of very sacred practices that can be used in whatever the religion may be.Religion is a set of beliefs,practices,values and teachings of a spiritual leader or tradition.Traditions that it may be found in lack uniformity and only the practice of the shaman is similar.

I do and will not class myself a shaman as I do not feel I have met the standards I have set for myself and do not belong to a society that recognizes me as one. What I study is shamanically based rules and principals that I am able to use in todays society.I am simply me.

I do not believe the use of the word should have any bearing on ones religion or beliefs.I respect all religions as in my eyes they are sacred in the eyes of the one who follows them.

When I first began my studies I was taught Never to transgress anothers path knowingly as it is wrong in the eyes of Spirit.I believe that you can borrow from one and other without any problem as long as you do not take what you have learned and tell others it is your own way.It is not and never will be.Respect is what it is all about in my eyes.

[StarSpiral]

(Just to locate myself before I start - while I do have Cree/Metis ancestry I am a white Native Studies major and anti-oppression activist/educator)

I don't think the problem is with using the term the term "shaman", as many people have stated it is used to describe practices from cultures around the world. Though I do like the term "Neo" or "New Age" Shaman as it clearly defines what path of shamanism one is following.
The problem comes from many (note: not all) people practicing or claiming to practice or teaching shamanism who steal elements of living cultures without permission, credit, giving them proper context etc etc. This especially true of Native American (and Canadian) cultures. These are the traditions of actual peoples who are still reeling from the on-going effects of colonialism and trying to regain their own spiritual traditions that in many cases have been lost because of laws, imposed religion and education. Such cultural appropriation by the members of the neo-pagan and new age movement is insulting, disrespectful and a further act of colonialism.
That all being said, I am a Native Studies major and found the Native community here to be nothing but open in sharing their traditions and teachings with those who are open and respectful, and who are willing to take on the work of challenging racism and colonialism.

Further reading on the issue: "Imaginary Indian" by D Francis, and anything by Patricia Monture-Angus (Canadian) and Ward Churchill (US)

[merlo]

To quote Dion Fortune "any technique that is being actually practiced is a growing thing, for the experience of each worker enriches it and becomes part of the common heritage....it is only a dead faith which remains uninfluenced by contemporary thought"

I know little about shamanism, but I am interested

[Fane Ayuma]

im not going to say im shaman, i never do, i call myself shamanic or i say i follow a shmanic path.

I do also believe i have a strong native American connection, i believe i was native in a few former lives, but i dont claim to be Native or anything i know im not.

[Nighthawk]

My stepfather is full blood. I have some Cherokee. I was the pot carrier at a funeral awhile back. The man called himself not a shaman, but a medicine man. he was of native descent. At any rate, we are all to learn. We are all to grow. We are all here to help one another. The name means little to me, just as the office, like president means nothing. It is the person behind the name that makes it work, or not. Peace to all.

[vulfsung]

My stepfather is full blood. I have some Cherokee. I was the pot carrier at a funeral awhile back. The man called himself not a shaman, but a medicine man. he was of native descent. At any rate, we are all to learn. We are all to grow. We are all here to help one another. The name means little to me, just as the office, like president means nothing. It is the person behind the name that makes it work, or not. Peace to all.

I wanted to give you Karma for this but :abadpoker
You are very wise. This world would be much better with more people like you, Nighthawk. _pounce_

[Nighthawk]

Umm, I do thank you.

[Teresa]

My ancestors of the Cherokee tribe do not use the term "shaman" They use the term "Medicine Man" and some similar tribes have also called them "Holy Men"!! Hope this helps some in the debate! BB, Shalaye

[Ben Gruagach]

My ancestors of the Cherokee tribe do not use the term "shaman" They use the term "Medicine Man" and some similar tribes have also called them "Holy Men"!! Hope this helps some in the debate! BB, Shalaye

I'm not surprised that there are First Nations spiritual leaders in the Americas who don't use the term "shaman." As we've discussed earlier in the thread, the term "shaman" originated in Siberia so it's not a word that naturally occurs anywhere else. It was introduced by scholars who saw similarities in practice to what those Siberian holy people were doing.

[Teresa]

I'm not surprised that there are First Nations spiritual leaders in the Americas who don't use the term "shaman." As we've discussed earlier in the thread, the term "shaman" originated in Siberia so it's not a word that naturally occurs anywhere else. It was introduced by scholars who saw similarities in practice to what those Siberian holy people were doing.
Indeed.

[AlAskendir]

Recently I was going through some old posts through another forum and they had a forum entitled plastic shamanism basically talking about modern day people who call themselves shamans but aren't. Basically these claim to have Native American heritages that they don't have and claim to pull out of Native beliefs but really are misdirected and bastardized forms of Native American heritage that have been digested and chewed out in another form. and calls it indiginous shamanism. This thread lead to a list of links that supported their cause of how plastic shamanism is wrong and included a link to a list of books that said what was wrong with a whole bunch of titles claiming to have Native American influence.

I can understand why they are upset that their cultures are being misrepresented in these books when as far as I understand that many are trying to keep their heritages alive. These books could make it even more difficult to keep their heritages alive and spreads misunderstandings about their spirituality.

On the same token however when we look at what is termed the New Age Spiritualities, the term shamanism has exploded. To some terming their path Shamanistic implies a powerful background and abilities that they wish to have or even pulls on the mystism that tends to follow this word. To others, sadly enough, they pull on the term shamanism to make a huge profit on a rather well marked, hefty word.

Yet there are many people who claim they are not shamans but follow a shamanistic path, which I'm sure still ticks a bunch of people off. Yet here we have a conundrum, we have a clash of two cultures, that of the modern day whos numbers have welled up like water behind a dam, and those Native American (even Russion and other cultures) traditions and culture who have ages of tradition, ritual and methods.





According to sped2work.tripod.com/shaman.html:

"The word shaman, used internationally, has its origin in manchú-tangu and has reached the ethnologic vocabulary through Russian.", which matches what I remember also. It is based on a verb which means 'to know', and though I use something similar as my own title (cogniscantor = one who knows), I humbly suggest that, rather than making a new descriptor+word that some might perceive as derogatory, why don't you make a whole new word?

On your other point, I don't think that it is fair that the American Indians take over the use of a non Americn Indian word (or even accept such use of it by others), and then have problems with how others take over or accept their own use of this same word.

[whisper54]

there are certain signs that designate a shamans choice, certain types of dreams, that have to occure before one enters the path. There is a type of calling that has to happen. The spirits don't like pretenders or those that ignore the calling. There are those that in this world that have lost their identity and seek to label themselves with the wrong names. If you're truley a 'shaman' then others will come to you. pretenders often don't know they are pretending. Desire is not an issue here, you can want it all you want but it won't happen if the spirits refuse to teach you. Most of the 'Shamans' I've met had no expreience with power plants, no vision quest,no experience with spirits, and no knowledge of tecnique to speak of. If you start calling yourself something you're not, look out. It's kind of like turning your collar around and calling yourself a priest.

most people aren't aware that there are two kind of shamans, the way of the healer is the most common perception, the second kind (my path) shuns others and searches for power. Needless to say we don't get a lot of publicity.

I was chosen when I was 12 and was taught the path to the spirit world by a guide that introduced me to my helpers and spirit friends at that time. I started with power plants(mescaline, peyote, LSD, mushrooms) when I was 17 and worked with that about three years.That was in 67-70. Then came the walkabout, and I was on the road hitching rides for about two years. Then came the military and I lost track of the path for quite a while. After that there was book study and lessons in nature when I moved to the upper Sierra's, spent alot of time in the desert, mountains, and such. A shaman has a certain need to be in the woods, to avoid others when it's necessary, and to walk his own path.

[whisper54]

Alaskendir,,,, I used to live in Susanvill back in the 70's, I really miss it at times. Do you go there on occaission? It's such a small town is it still there, did they ever get that second stop light? Have you been to the volcano, any activity more than usual( this is an active volcano, the only one in the U.S.) Have you been to Eagle Lake to see the ospreys (only place in US where they nest.) If not the scenery is spectacular. for the others Susanville is situated in the middle of 3-4 geological differences.It lays at the top of the Sierra's and the bottom of the Cascades. It has high mountain, desert, forest and high plains. It's the last place in America where you can see High plains desert sage. There is a place called Rice Canyon, if you can find it, that has Indian pictographs that are spread all over a cliff face. It's out in the desert and the locals kind of keep it a secrete. oh well, let it be known that your'e envied by someone.

[Teresa]

On your other point, I don't think that it is fair that the American Indians take over the use of a non Americn Indian word (or even accept such use of it by others), and then have problems with how others take over or accept their own use of this same word.


The American Indians did not take over the use of the word and do not care how others use it.It is the perception of others that make it seem that way.

[Ben Gruagach]

The American Indians did not take over the use of the word and do not care how others use it.It is the perception of others that make it seem that way.

I'm sure there are some who recognize that "shaman" might not really apply to them... but there are definitely some American Indians/ First Nations individuals who have been vocal about the word "shaman" being theirs and being misused particularly by New Age types. You'll see it in books like "Shamanism: A Reader" edited by Graham Harvey (warning: it's a scholarly book so it's a bit challenging to read at times.)

[Teresa]

As we've discussed earlier in the thread, the term "shaman" originated in Siberia so it's not a word that naturally occurs anywhere else. It was introduced by scholars who saw similarities in practice to what those Siberian holy people were doing.
Could this be the reason since you said it was a "Scholarly BooK" Was it influenced by someone who is not of the" Native Americans" /"First Nations"?

[Nucleous]

I'm currently living right next door to a researvation. In such close proximity, both worlds cross over quite a bit. My 6 year old, who's been learning Ojibwe language, culture, and history, would tell you they are medicine wo/men. My Native American Studies Professor, an Ojibwe elder, would tell you that he is a medicine man. Someone said it right earlier, it's a word that they have been given, that they don't even use. Only those who are new and don't bother to get to know the people of the culture their interested in, and I mean going out and meeting them, reading books writen by Native Americans, not looking in books claiming this or that, would discover this info. Though I must say, they really could care less, as could I, about who the word is pointed at, as long as it's used respectfully.

[Ben Gruagach]

Could this be the reason since you said it was a "Scholarly BooK" Was it influenced by someone who is not of the" Native Americans" /"First Nations"?

I'm not sure what you're asking or pointing out. Could you clarify please?

[EquusDancer]

Shaman and its usage is a tricky thing. :-) Of course, it could always be turned around... Most Christians aren't really Christians (don't live it, act it, etc.) but feel comfortable calling themselves that, and some scream it out quite loudly.

It boils down to the individual and how they act, react, and whether they truly are a shaman, or someone claiming the title and having no idea what it means. AS for who gets to claim the title legitimately, I guess it boils down to Diety. :-) After all, not everyone will agree on whether so-n-so is or isn't a true shaman....

EquusDancer