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DarkHeart13
January 31st, 2005, 05:01 PM
I've taken 2 different tests to discover more about my religious beliefs. Both times I got Sikhism as my number 1 choice. I've read some on it. They believe in the Christian God but are more spiritual, such as meditation, healing, and such, and they also value women equal to men, which so many Christian traditions do not. The religion kind of reminds me of Christian Science. But does anyone have any more info about this religion? I have found books on it, but unlike Wicca, I can't find any "beginner's" books. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Blessed Be,
Jada Raine

Dawa Lhamo
January 31st, 2005, 07:28 PM
I'll have to look, but I'm fairly certain they're not an Abrahamic religion or related to Christianity in any way, and they don't worship the Christian God. If they identify their God as being the same as the Christian God, that's quite a bit different, but I thought they came out of the Sant Mat tradition in India... Hmmm... I'll have to go see what I can find out. Hold that thought...

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

The High Queen of Faerie
January 31st, 2005, 07:39 PM
i do know that they never cut their hair because they believe god pulls them up to heaven by their hair. :x

sari0009
January 31st, 2005, 07:48 PM
They believe in a God (and the teachings of ten gurus) but it is not the Christian God they believe in specifically. By their word they value women highly but by social interpretation, which can't be pried from the rest of the package, they value women highly as long as they are "good women." (Now that's a deep topic.)

Experiences may vary but when I went to Sikh temple I was tolerated and treated with distant kindness as the only white there and I would say a good proportion of the people there were from India. When you enter a Sikh temple you cover your head with a kerchief and women go on one side and men on the other. They put their big huge book up on a pedestal and if memory serves me well they bent down and kissed the ground in front of it?

Not an expert, but to my ears and eyes there was a predominant focus on war and establishing Sikh territory and indeed the religion was born in an area full of conflicts between Muslims and Hindus.

Wikipedia has a nice write up on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism

Dawa Lhamo
January 31st, 2005, 07:54 PM
Ok, well, it is originally out of India, and it is authentically Indian. ^_^ Guru Nanak is the founder. Here are some links I found:

Sikhnet: Intro (http://www.sikhnet.com/s/SikhIntro)
BBC Guide to Sikhism (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/world_religions/sikhism.shtml)
Sikh basics (http://www.sikhs.org/topics.htm)

For some good comparisons, check out this link (http://www.sikhs.org/religion.htm)

On the Sikh/Sant Mat relationship (http://www.ex-premie.org/best/bof07032000161355.htm)

They are monotheists, and they are "people of a book", but the book is different than the Bible or Quran. In fact, some of the most common misconceptions is that Sikhism is a type of Islam or a type of Hinduism. However, I haven't read anything Sikh that says that their God is the true God and that of Abraham is false. If anything, they seem to believe that Abraham's one God is the same as their one God. They don't worship him as Jehovah or Allah, though. ^_^

I don't know any books, but I hope this helps.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

sari0009
January 31st, 2005, 08:00 PM
Picture of inside the temple with the (huge) book featured...http://www.ngfl-cymru.org.uk/vtc/ngfl/re/m_parry_carmarthenshire/addoldai/gurdwaratwo4.html

DarkHeart13
January 31st, 2005, 08:56 PM
I'll have to look, but I'm fairly certain they're not an Abrahamic religion or related to Christianity in any way, and they don't worship the Christian God. If they identify their God as being the same as the Christian God, that's quite a bit different, but I thought they came out of the Sant Mat tradition in India... Hmmm... I'll have to go see what I can find out. Hold that thought...

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo
Sikhism isn't a branch of Christianity, but they do honor the Christian God because I just found a Sikhism E-book for children...I was skimming through it and it said they honor Jesus Christ as well, but their Christmas is in like October or November...
I don't know much about the "leaders" of this religion. One of them was inspired by Hinduism I think.....

DarkHeart13
January 31st, 2005, 08:59 PM
They believe in a God (and the teachings of ten gurus) but it is not the Christian God they believe in specifically. By their word they value women highly but by social interpretation, which can't be pried from the rest of the package, they value women highly as long as they are "good women." (Now that's a deep topic.)

Experiences may vary but when I went to Sikh temple I was tolerated and treated with distant kindness as the only white there and I would say a good proportion of the people there were from India. When you enter a Sikh temple you cover your head with a kerchief and women go on one side and men on the other. They put their big huge book up on a pedestal and if memory serves me well they bent down and kissed the ground in front of it?

Not an expert, but to my ears and eyes there was a predominant focus on war and establishing Sikh territory and indeed the religion was born in an area full of conflicts between Muslims and Hindus.

Wikipedia has a nice write up on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism
Thank you. I will check it out. I just found a bunch of ebooks. I've printed a motherload...lol...

DarkHeart13
January 31st, 2005, 09:15 PM
Ok, well, it is originally out of India, and it is authentically Indian. ^_^ Guru Nanak is the founder. Here are some links I found:

Sikhnet: Intro (http://www.sikhnet.com/s/SikhIntro)
BBC Guide to Sikhism (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/world_religions/sikhism.shtml)
Sikh basics (http://www.sikhs.org/topics.htm)

For some good comparisons, check out this link (http://www.sikhs.org/religion.htm)

On the Sikh/Sant Mat relationship (http://www.ex-premie.org/best/bof07032000161355.htm)

They are monotheists, and they are "people of a book", but the book is different than the Bible or Quran. In fact, some of the most common misconceptions is that Sikhism is a type of Islam or a type of Hinduism. However, I haven't read anything Sikh that says that their God is the true God and that of Abraham is false. If anything, they seem to believe that Abraham's one God is the same as their one God. They don't worship him as Jehovah or Allah, though. ^_^

I don't know any books, but I hope this helps.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo
Thanks so much. I'm checking out the first link right now...
He expressed the reality that there is one God and many paths, and the Name of God is Truth, "Sat Nam".
This reminds me of the phrase, "There are a hundred ways to kneel and kiss the ground." I believe in one God, the Christian God, but I don't think I have to worship him in the way that most average Bible-thumping, church-going Christians do. That's what I get out of the phrase above.
There is a nifty q and a board for teens on that site...I'll have to check it out later cuz I have to go...thanks for searching for me...

Oh, and I did find one thing: They believe in God, but God is WITHIN, not a separate being, like that of Christianity. I've always believed that, but it's not a different God to me, it's the same God in a different light. Does that make sense to you?

BenSt
January 31st, 2005, 09:43 PM
Sikhism isn't a branch of Christianity, but they do honor the Christian God because I just found a Sikhism E-book for children...I was skimming through it and it said they honor Jesus Christ as well, but their Christmas is in like October or November...
I don't know much about the "leaders" of this religion. One of them was inspired by Hinduism I think.....

LOL, my dear, as Dawa said, they do not worship God, or Jesus. They are not connected to chistianity at all...they are the fifth monotheistic living religion, being composed of elements of Islam and Hinduism. They are NOT Islamic or Hindu, instead being a completly new religion. Ok, here is the run down basicly of how they were founded. They were founded by Sri Guru Nanak, who was born in the Punjab region of India/Pakistan. He was born as a Hindu, but was ruled by a Muslim. He saw elements in both Hindusim and Islam that he liked, but rejected the two religions. He founded a religion, based on the worship of one God, who is both nameless but is called by many names. He borrowed the idea of karma and reincarnation from Hinduism, and the eqaulity of all from Islam. The main place of worship is called a Ghudwara (sp?), and in the Ghudwara, everyone sits on the floor because it is believe that shows eqaulity. there was a great uproar (I think it's still going) of furniture in the Ghudwara in colder countries. Becasue Punjab is quite humid, there is no discomfort sitting on the floor...but in colder countries there was some discomfort for elderly people, so a few Sikh Priests took it on themselves to bring in chairs. The elected sikh theological government, located at the Golden Temple of Amritsar, ordered the removal of the chairs, and when it was ignored, they excommunicated I think five high ranking Canadian Priests. This is how much they believe in eqaulity for every human being.

When Nanak died, he appointed a successor to become the next Gurur. There were 10 Guru's in all, and are seen as being direct spiritual reincarnations of Nanak. Umm, lets see, their main scripture is a collection of hymns and commentaries by the 10 Gurus, and is called Sri Guru Granth Sahib (The Grand Guru Sahib), and is worshipped as a Guru it's self. Sikhism is all inclusive, but believes mainly that one's true path is through Guru's Grace, and the highest religion is Sikhism. All other religions reflect God, but are incomplete. Becasue they are derived partly from islam, they respect other monotheistic traditions, and see Jesus as a great teacher, but do not honour him as the Son of God. Their main symbol is the Khanda, which is a merged symbol of many symbols, including a: Chakram, the Khandas (knives or daggers), and others I cant quite recall right now. Over all, it's a very nice religion...a friend of mine though, who went to a Sikh Gudwara in Toronto came back disgusted because they eat with their hands and sit on the floor...I tried to ignore his criticisms...lol.

Thier 'christmas' so to speak, is the birth of Guru Nanak, and they have holidays all over the calander, corresponding with other Guru's birthdays. Anyways, I hope that helped you...perhaps you came up as a Sikh becasue you believe in one God, vegetarianism, truth and honour, and non violence?

Namaskare!

Tobias

p.s. Oh, that reminds me, they also took the traditional Hindu Mudra of Namasate as well...so if you see a sikh or meet one, place your hands together, I think they will like it :)

DarkHeart13
January 31st, 2005, 11:28 PM
LOL, my dear, as Dawa said, they do not worship God, or Jesus.
Then why did I find a Sikhist ebook saying they do? You can still worship God and Jesus without being a Christian. I don't say I'm a Christian and I worship them. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just don't understand why I found that on a Sikhist site if that is not what they worship.
They are not connected to chistianity at all...they are the fifth monotheistic living religion, being composed of elements of Islam and Hinduism. They are NOT Islamic or Hindu, instead being a completly new religion. Ok, here is the run down basicly of how they were founded. They were founded by Sri Guru Nanak, who was born in the Punjab region of India/Pakistan. He was born as a Hindu, but was ruled by a Muslim. He saw elements in both Hindusim and Islam that he liked, but rejected the two religions. He founded a religion, based on the worship of one God, who is both nameless but is called by many names. He borrowed the idea of karma and reincarnation from Hinduism, and the eqaulity of all from Islam. The main place of worship is called a Ghudwara (sp?), and in the Ghudwara, everyone sits on the floor because it is believe that shows eqaulity. there was a great uproar (I think it's still going) of furniture in the Ghudwara in colder countries. Becasue Punjab is quite humid, there is no discomfort sitting on the floor...but in colder countries there was some discomfort for elderly people, so a few Sikh Priests took it on themselves to bring in chairs. The elected sikh theological government, located at the Golden Temple of Amritsar, ordered the removal of the chairs, and when it was ignored, they excommunicated I think five high ranking Canadian Priests. This is how much they believe in eqaulity for every human being.
Hmm...thanks for sharing...I didn't know that...

When Nanak died, he appointed a successor to become the next Gurur. There were 10 Guru's in all, and are seen as being direct spiritual reincarnations of Nanak. Umm, lets see, their main scripture is a collection of hymns and commentaries by the 10 Gurus, and is called Sri Guru Granth Sahib (The Grand Guru Sahib), and is worshipped as a Guru it's self. Sikhism is all inclusive, but believes mainly that one's true path is through Guru's Grace, and the highest religion is Sikhism. All other religions reflect God, but are incomplete. Becasue they are derived partly from islam, they respect other monotheistic traditions, and see Jesus as a great teacher, but do not honour him as the Son of God. Their main symbol is the Khanda, which is a merged symbol of many symbols, including a: Chakram, the Khandas (knives or daggers), and others I cant quite recall right now. Over all, it's a very nice religion...a friend of mine though, who went to a Sikh Gudwara in Toronto came back disgusted because they eat with their hands and sit on the floor...I tried to ignore his criticisms...lol.
Ah, now I see where the Jesus part comes in. lol...

Thier 'christmas' so to speak, is the birth of Guru Nanak, and they have holidays all over the calander, corresponding with other Guru's birthdays. Anyways, I hope that helped you...perhaps you came up as a Sikh becasue you believe in one God, vegetarianism, truth and honour, and non violence?
Yep, exactly! lol...I dunno if Sikhism is "right" for me though because I do believe Jesus was the son of God. That is the only big difference. And I don't know if I could live without cutting my hair...it's spiked right now!! But everything else really seems to fit into what I believe....with every religion I find there's always at least ONE thing I don't agree with.....*sigh* Do you think it's THAT big of a difference? lol
Namaskare!

Tobias

p.s. Oh, that reminds me, they also took the traditional Hindu Mudra of Namasate as well...so if you see a sikh or meet one, place your hands together, I think they will like it :)
GRRRR...It keeps saying the message is TOO short!!!!!

DarkHeart13
January 31st, 2005, 11:37 PM
Picture of inside the temple with the (huge) book featured...http://www.ngfl-cymru.org.uk/vtc/ngfl/re/m_parry_carmarthenshire/addoldai/gurdwaratwo4.html
Wow...looking at those pictures made me feel....great...I instantly felt drawn to the religion, wanting to know more about it. I doubt there is a place like that in West Virgnia though. I'll look but if not, I plan on going to Cali within the year so I know I can check out a place like that there....thanks for sharing..

sari0009
February 1st, 2005, 12:24 AM
Welcome. There really was a lot that was very compelling and attractive (focus on family and community...such connection) in the religion, even though I didn't choose it in the end.

Paracelsus
February 1st, 2005, 02:39 PM
As a good intro for the general reader, may I recommend "Sikhism" by Hew McLeod, in Penguin.

BenSt
February 4th, 2005, 04:09 PM
It's only 'Sikh' not Sikhist lol. The Guru Granth Sahib is an impressive book to look at, I remember last year when newly created Granths were sent from Amritsar to different countries. The Sikh authorities hire an airliner and prepare it with luxurious beds and pedastals. Each book is classed as a Guru, and here they were housed in a special Gudwara, where each one sat on it's own feather mattress. The entire Toronto Sikh community, as well as members of other communities came to wacth and pay homage to the arrival of the Granths. I think 100 in all were brought here. I think Amritsar is the only place where they can be created. It's an interesting religion. Women are allowed to cut their hair, only men can't.

Tobias

DarkHeart13
February 4th, 2005, 07:18 PM
It's only 'Sikh' not Sikhist lol. The Guru Granth Sahib is an impressive book to look at, I remember last year when newly created Granths were sent from Amritsar to different countries. The Sikh authorities hire an airliner and prepare it with luxurious beds and pedastals. Each book is classed as a Guru, and here they were housed in a special Gudwara, where each one sat on it's own feather mattress. The entire Toronto Sikh community, as well as members of other communities came to wacth and pay homage to the arrival of the Granths. I think 100 in all were brought here. I think Amritsar is the only place where they can be created. It's an interesting religion. Women are allowed to cut their hair, only men can't.

Tobias
Okay, then...Sikh...lol...
And women can cut their hair?! Yay!!! I like guys with long hair too...like the 80's hair bands...you know, Bret Michaels type hair..lol..but I've seen the pics of Sikh men...I don't dig the long beards...haha.
Thanks for all the info dude. I'll keep reading....

Agaliha
November 7th, 2006, 07:01 AM
:bumpsmili
Old thread, I know but I had to correct this for further people:


Women are allowed to cut their hair, only men can't.


Okay, then...Sikh...lol...
And women can cut their hair?! Yay!!! I like guys with long hair too...like the 80's hair bands...you know, Bret Michaels type hair..lol..but I've seen the pics of Sikh men...I don't dig the long beards...haha.
Thanks for all the info dude. I'll keep reading....

No. They can't. No way shape or form.
Not armpit, leg, head, pubic or any other kind of hair.
Women are bound by the same doctrines as men.

Some info:



Kesh (unshorn hair)
Guru Nanak started the tradition of keeping hair intact and covering the head with a turban. The rest of the Nine Gurus encouraged their Sikhs to do the same. The following quote from the Guru Granth Sahib (Adi Granth, the Sikh Holy Book) clearly shows that long before Guru Gobind Singh made it obligatory, the keeping of long hair and the wearing of a turban was actively preached by all the Gurus.
"Let living in God's presence, With mind rid of impurities, Be your discipline.
Keep the God-given form intact, With a turban donned on your head."
GGS Page 1084, Line 12
Hair, just as any other part of our body, is a God-given form. Keeping long hair confirms a Sikh's belief in the acceptance of God's Will, and teaches humility and acceptance. Acceptance of the God-given form, acceptance of ones appearance and hence avoidance of excessive vanity. The Gurus advised us to accept Gods will. The guru asked to keep the god-given form intact and to don a turban. Should one cut/shave/forcefully extract/wax/pluck/color ones hair, one should ask:
Who am I trying to please?
What purpose does it serve?
Does this act please God or serve to appease one's perceived vanity?
God is perfect, God's creation is perfect. Was it erroneous to bestow the entire creation with hair?
If one day you found your earlobes or your eye lashes unattractive, would you just cut them off?
Is hair a disease refractory to medical treatment?
Does keeping hair cause unbearable pain and suffering as would a disabling disease?
http://www.sikhwomen.com/sikhism/notjustsymbols.htm




Q: Which Guru started this tradition of keeping hair?
A: Guru Nanak
Q: Does this apply to men as well as women?
A: Yes. Sikhism does not make gender based spiritual or socio-economic distinctions.
http://www.sikhwomen.com/sikhism/notjustsymbols.htm




Q: Why don't Sikhs cut their hair?
A: Sikhs believe that people are created with long hair for a reason and they accept hair as a beautiful part of their bodies. However, Sikhs do not mind if others cut their hair.
http://www.sikhnextdoor.org/teachers/faq.html#h1




5. It is acceptable for a girl to shave her legs and underarms if she does not cut the hair on her head?
No. A Sikh is required not to cut or shave hair from any part of the body. Trimming or shaving of eye brows by Sikh women is as much against the Khalsa Reht as trimming beard by Sikh men.

6. Why do we have to have long hair? My dad said, “When the Sikhs were living in the forests, they could not get their hair cut, but now you can do it.” Why can't we?
If one wants to accepted and recognized as a Sikh, keeping uncut hair is a requirement for that. When Guru Gobind Singh gave Amrit to the Sikhs, he also required them to wear the 5-symbol uniform. The Sikhs were living a very good life at that time in villages and cities. They were not living in forests. The Guru was living at Anandpur Sahib and was accepted as a true king. It is wrong to assume that Sikhs had to grow long hair because they could not cut it while living in jungles.

7. How do we answer this question, “If you keep long hair, being God-given, why cut your nails which are also God-given?”
You have been told the wrong reason by someone for keeping your hair uncut. Sikhs keep long hair, not because they are a gift of God, but because of the order of the Guru. The instructions of the Guru to retain natural hair (not to cut it at all) are misinterpreted by some persons to mean that we are to keep hair uncut, it being a gift of nature, Waheguru, to human beings. This misunderstanding prevails among many Sikhs.

http://www.sikhmarg.com/english/chapter03.html




Kesh - uncut hair
Various reasons and symbolisms have been put forward for the Sikh practice of keeping hair uncut.

Throughout history hair(kesh) has been regarded as a symbol both of holiness and strength.
One's hair is part of God's creation. Keeping hair uncut indicates that one is willing to accept God's gift as God intended it.
Uncut hair symbolizes adoption of a simple life, and denial of pride in one's appearance.
Not cutting one's hair is a symbol of one's wish to move beyond concerns of the body and attain spiritual maturity.
A Sikh should only bow his head to the Guru, and not to a barber.
It is a highly visible symbol of membership of the group.
It follows the appearance of Guru Gobind Singh, founder of the Khalsa.Sikh women are just as forbidden to cut any body hair or even trim their eyebrows, as Sikh men are forbidden to trim their beards.
Before you ask: A Sikh is not allowed to cut hair from any part of the body.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/sikhism/customs/fiveks.shtml


There's tons more resources on the internet as well. Women are equal to men in Sikhism and therefore also not allowed to cut their hair.

Nitefalle
November 9th, 2006, 03:52 PM
I think that might depend upon the Gudwara where one practices. I went to a Sikh temple in Colorado and there were some people there who had cut their hair. When we asked about it (I was there with three other students for our Indian Religions class), the spokesman said that it was pretty much a laid-back rule and no one was shunned if they chose to cut their hair. Same with the vegetarianism. The place we had was very nice - it had a basement underneath the main room, where we sat on on mats on the floor and ate a big potluck meal. They were so nice there, it was a very lovely ceremony - all in Punjab, but luckily a girl in my group was Punjabi and translated the whole thing afterward!

BenSt
November 9th, 2006, 11:18 PM
I think that might depend upon the Gudwara where one practices. I went to a Sikh temple in Colorado and there were some people there who had cut their hair. When we asked about it (I was there with three other students for our Indian Religions class), the spokesman said that it was pretty much a laid-back rule and no one was shunned if they chose to cut their hair. Same with the vegetarianism. The place we had was very nice - it had a basement underneath the main room, where we sat on on mats on the floor and ate a big potluck meal. They were so nice there, it was a very lovely ceremony - all in Punjab, but luckily a girl in my group was Punjabi and translated the whole thing afterward!

A good friend of mine is Punjabi...and actually the majority of Sikh services are spoken in Gurmukhi, soemwhat like Punjabi but more formalized I think. She isnt Sikh, but she belongs to a Sikh Guru lineage and her family are half Sikh. I think in some ways the important thing here, and this is a digression rom my previous earlier posts a year ago...not to really classify everyone as having to strictly follow these rules. There are the rules of appearance first put forward by I belivee it was Guru Arjun, but a the same time everyone is different. I mean there are some who believe that hair, as a natural by product of the body is linked to the creation of God...and thats why they dont cut it....or rather they trim it only to make it neat. There are those who believe more stringly in the spiritual aspect, rather than the physical traditions...and so they cu their hair like anyone else. Everyone is different is the bottom line mhm :).

BenSt
November 10th, 2006, 02:20 AM
FORUM GUIDE MODE

Moving this thread to Eastern paths thread

Agaliha
November 26th, 2006, 04:25 AM
I think that might depend upon the Gudwara where one practices. I went to a Sikh temple in Colorado and there were some people there who had cut their hair. When we asked about it (I was there with three other students for our Indian Religions class), the spokesman said that it was pretty much a laid-back rule and no one was shunned if they chose to cut their hair. Same with the vegetarianism. The place we had was very nice - it had a basement underneath the main room, where we sat on on mats on the floor and ate a big potluck meal. They were so nice there, it was a very lovely ceremony - all in Punjab, but luckily a girl in my group was Punjabi and translated the whole thing afterward!
RE: bolded text. Really? Everything I found online said the opposite. That it was breaking the tenet of Kesh and forbidden. I've skimmed Sikh message boards and they said they were saddned of Sikhs that cut their hair-- its a trend sweeping the West and Eastern world.

Is a Sikh without his 'kesh' or long hair a lesser Sikh?
In popular parlance, a clean-shaven Sikh is a 'patit' or an apostate. Says Professor Sher Singh of the Institute of Sikh Studies, "Of all the five Ks—'kesh, kada, kirpan, kangha and kachh'—which Guru Gobind Singh had made mandatory for all Sikhs to wear, the 'kesh' comes first and is foremost and indispensable to a Sikh's identity. Without the 'kesh', the other symbols are meaningless."
Mentioned here (http://www.sikhsangat.org/publish/printer_1444.shtml)

Patit: A lapsed Sikh who has been initiated into the Khalsa, but failed to observe the Khalsa code of conduct.
www.sikhiwiki.org (http://www.sikhiwiki.org)

Like you said, it might depend on the temple. I do find it slighly odd that they were so laxed about it after all I read...perhaps they weren't initiated and have yet to take vows? I don't know.
I went to middle school with a lot of Sikhs and they wore turbs and didn't shave/cut their hair. They told us in the religions overview in social studies that it was forbidden. ::shurg::
Oh and actress Parminder Nagra is a Sikh, yet obviously shaves and cuts her hair. Though when I asked on Beliefnet about this they said she's not a good example.