Would you Convert?

[Zelan]

I have read the Bible and many other religious texts, and just for perspective's sake; what assholes do in God's name doesn't necessarily reflect who he is, or his desires.
After all, no matter your faith, it does come down to our own choices in regards to the opportunities (or lack of) before us.

[Nebt Het]

Christainity isn't the belief system for me. Most of my friends are pretty strict christains and drag to their church. Out of respect for the own beliefs I keep quiet but the more I find out about their beliefs the more I dislike it. So short of concert proof that the church is the way to go I'll be staying out of it.

[Xenojjin]

Ill go with the "if its true, its true" crowd. Belief to me is simply the product of ones understanding of reality. No one "chooses" to believe anything, it always happens with time as evidence opens up to you be it physical or emotional.

That being said if christianity was true and they finally proved it, I dont see any reason to not believe in it. ALthough currently I highly doubt it, and I would probobly be quite shocked to find out that the christians were right given all the problems I see in the bible and the church.

I would suspect if christianity is true it would be somewhat differant then what most christians believe it to be. If Jesus were here on earth and was to comment on how the church is handling things I seriously doubt it would be pretty.

[plumedsnake]

I'd be inclined to believe something if overwhelming evidence in its favor made itself available. Jesus coming down from the heavens wreathed in flame or whatever Bruckheimerian mode of entry he'd prefer would qualify as some pretty hard evidence.

IF Jesus zoomed in out of the sky and declared himself etc . . . (I mean the 'born again' jesus), prior to any conversion on my part he would first have to answer from very serious and important questions. eg. why he never stands up for himself but gets his followers to go around oppressing people on his behalf. Why he does nothing about people stealing and lying and causing evil and wickedness in his name? and many more question. Jesus would need to go on a full blown political campaign discussing and explaining himself because I could even consider conversion.

[faceperson]

Done all three, waiting for the death part, when Jesus comes out of the sky on his golden Mechanical Horse ride to collect teh SOLZORS out of our protein piles.

[Layla]

Urgh. I have tried to convert so many times! And every time I do? My totem animals and my guides kick up a huge fuss :awilly: so for me its apparently not even remotely possible.

I will live and die as I am. I voted Other.

[Raven Heart]

I did convert to the roman catholic church, and brought into her.
Why. Mostly cause of the big questions they had nice answears too, and this big end promise, that in the end and if I believe I got a good chance of entering into the heavenly kingdom of God.
I decided I wanted to think again LOL.
Sure at times there is this nagging part of me that miss some of the ritual and eating the flesh of God.
Just can not subject my own free will.
So yes in the past I would of converted but know I think i would be happy to die.
Just a side not as a catholic I never viewed that big end of the world war as a real thing.

[omar]

Become a Christian convert? When Hell freezes over! Wow! This is post 666?

[Arion]

Would I convert? Hell no!

Besides, I hear hell is lovely this time of year:hahugh:

[Mesektet]

I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[Holly_Blackwell]

I'd ask him politely if you could have his car/stereo/various belongings when the Rapture occurred. ;)

I actually saw a bumper sticker once that said "In case of rapture, car's yours!"

Anyway, honesty, meaning no disrespect here but...
I think if the rapture happened, and God came down in all his wonder and all the Christians got sucked up into heaven...I'd think it'd be pretty stupid not to convert. It's not like some human pointing a gun at your head and threatening to kill you or saying you'll go to hell if you don't convert. This is concret PROOF that they were right, and we were wrong. And don't you think refusing to convert at that point would be the equilvent of sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and screaming LA LA LA LA!!!!! ?
I don't think you can paint it with some nobel label and say it's "holding true to your beliefs". I think at that point all it is, is not being able to admit you were wrong.

I was arguing with this very christain woman the other day and she said I was so refusing I would stand at the gates of heaven and tell God his message isn't true. I laughed at her and said, "Oh I'm not quite that stupid. If I died and found myself standing at the gates of heaven, i'd smack myself on the head and say 'wow. that was dumb. how much is hell gonna hurt exactly?'"

[Holly_Blackwell]

Another point I'd like to make is that the Bible does not say that there are not other gods, just that his followers shall have none before him. Well, that is something that was said to his followers as they left Egypt. I am not a follower of the Jewish and/or Christian God, and therefore, these things were not said to me. Nor does it invalidate my Goddess or indicate that her exsistance is less real.


That's very interesting. I never thought about it from that perspective. (Makes mental note of this to bring up in next Literature of the Bible cless)

[Sequoia]

If it's the end times as described in the Bible, erm, that means the Bible was right, folks. If Jesus is standing there going, "I love you, I'll accept you as you are, you just have to accept me too..." and you see a lake of fire down in the valley with people burning in it... umm... I'll be hugging Jesus.

If you're wrong, you're wrong. (But I don't think that particular situation is going to be happening :p )

[Against The Tide]

I wouldn't convert, couldn't spend my afterlife with a God who uses 'good cop bad cop'.

[~BEBZ~]

Although I have Pagan/Wiccan beliefs, I am big enough to admit that I may be wrong. If it were prooven to me that I was, of course I would convert. It seems silly not to. What do you gain by holding on to your false beliefs in that type of a situation? I can see going over to the darkside, but completely discounting all of it?

[Sequoia]

Although I have Pagan/Wiccan beliefs, I am big enough to admit that I may be wrong. If it were prooven to me that I was, of course I would convert. It seems silly not to. What do you gain by holding on to your false beliefs in that type of a situation? I can see going over to the darkside, but completely discounting it?

Not to mention that if they're right about the apocolypse, then they're right about Hell, too. And if you don't take Jesus, then you end up in Hell. Sooner or later you die, and you go to Hell. IF that situation was to happen.

[Zibblsnrt]

I wouldn't convert, couldn't spend my afterlife with a God who uses 'good cop bad cop'.

I imagine the idea is that that's what's going to happen no matter what, assuming it's true.


I can see going over to the darkside, but completely discounting it?

"The dark side?" Really, now.

[Ryd Firedreamz]

he thinks I'm influenced by devils and when I talk to my goddess I'm being decieved

Thats the STUPIDEST most IGNORANT thing some one can say



He said I was being arrogant to hold onto my beliefs like that. So I'm wondering what others would think.


He was being arrogant for telling you that you're decieved by hellish creatures.

[~BEBZ~]

"The dark side?" Really, now.

LOL, I think you took that wrong! I meant for those who said they would rather join the Devil, not that it itself was "the dark side"! :lol:

Just to clear that up so I don't start getting flamed! hehe

[Ryd Firedreamz]

What do you gain by holding on to your false beliefs in that type of a situation?

You keep your pride and you also wouldn't have to accept a god that is trully evil and inspires people to genocide. If Satan is against a god like that, why wouldn't people worship Satan?

[~BEBZ~]

Inspiring genocide is not the same as condoning it. I see no where in the Bible where God says "Go out and kill people" In fact the opposite. It is only the sickness of mankind that takes HIS supposed words and twists them to their benefit.

And what of pride if it is based on lies?

I've always felt pride was highly overrated. Every once in a while it does one good to swallow it. *See humble.

[Sequoia]

You keep your pride and you also wouldn't have to accept a god that is trully evil and inspires people to genocide. If Satan is against a god like that, why wouldn't people worship Satan?

Try to follow the hypothetical situation.

Jesus appears.

Jesus is proven real by his physical appearance.

The apocolypse starts.

If these events happen, that means Christianity is real, and your gods are not.

Jesus offers to save you, both literally and spiritually.

You either: a) spit in his face and continue on earth in sin, or b) accept him and are saved.

There is no "Stay with my gods and be loyal to them." Jesus' existance proves them to be imaginary. (In this hypothetical situation.)

You either accept Jesus or you end up in Hell for all eternity. If Jesus and Hell are real, that means your gods are not. Are you following?

Remember, this is a hypothetical situation, that assumes that Jesus and the Christian God make themselves known as real and true, meaning their doctrine is real and true.

Now, why would anyone refuse, in said hypothetical situation?

[Ryd Firedreamz]

Try to follow the hypothetical situation.

Jesus appears.

Jesus is proven real by his physical appearance.

The apocolypse starts.

If these events happen, that means Christianity is real, and your gods are not.

Jesus offers to save you, both literally and spiritually.

You either: a) spit in his face and continue on earth in sin, or b) accept him and are saved.

There is no "Stay with my gods and be loyal to them." Jesus' existance proves them to be imaginary. (In this hypothetical situation.)

You either accept Jesus or you end up in Hell for all eternity. If Jesus and Hell are real, that means your gods are not. Are you following?

Remember, this is a hypothetical situation, that assumes that Jesus and the Christian God make themselves known as real and true, meaning their doctrine is real and true.

Now, why would anyone refuse, in said hypothetical situation?

They would refuse because of all the evil things the christian god does in the bible.

[Amethyst Rose]

Now, why would anyone refuse, in said hypothetical situation?

Because just because the Christian god exists, doesn't mean that my gods don't. IIRC, and my bible memory is fuzzy, no where does it say that other gods don't exist.... it says 'thou shalt have no other gods before me' and there's somewhere that refers to an 'unknown god'. Which, says to me that there must be other gods, as well.

[~BEBZ~]

They would refuse because of all the evil things the christian god does in the bible.
Ummm....examples please?

Although I personally think the Bible is a crock written by men to try to control women and ppl in general with their own agenda. I obviously don't see it the way you do. I fail to see where God does evil things. So please point me in your direction.

[wolf]

Other.

I can only be true to myself.

A conversion under duress is not sincere, and would not be valid or guarantee admission to the new and perfect world with Jesus.

I'm no expert, but I think your friend probably has a warped view of Christian Theology with respect to the Rapture. I'm not saying that's not what he's being told.

The word "rapture" does not appear in the King James Bible or the Revised Standard Edition.

EDIT TO ADD: Although histrionic, this site has a fairly extensive review of the notion of The Rapture. (http://www.demonbuster.com/rapture.html)

Sounds like your friend needs to spend less time reading Left Behind, and more time reading the Bible.

[Ryd Firedreamz]

Ummm....examples please?

Although I personally think the Bible is a crock written by men to try to control women and ppl in general with their own agenda. I obviously don't see it the way you do. I fail to see where God does evil things. So please point me in your direction.

Go see www.evilbible.com and follow the passages with your bible to see for yourself. If you reject the bible then you are rejecting that god, so it must be another god you are reffering to because the god of christianity/judaism IS evil.

[Sequoia]

Because just because the Christian god exists, doesn't mean that my gods don't. IIRC, and my bible memory is fuzzy, no where does it say that other gods don't exist.... it says 'thou shalt have no other gods before me' and there's somewhere that refers to an 'unknown god'. Which, says to me that there must be other gods, as well.

Eh, that's kind of semantics. Which, incidentally, may or may not be true based on translations. It's pretty clear that he was saying not to worship anything but himself, including inanimate objects, not "There are other gods, but I'm the bestest, so ignore their existance." That particular interpretation is a pretty recent one, mostly used by pagans to justify their religion's existance to devout Christians.

In the Christian faith, there is only One True God, and His son Jesus Christ, who may or may not be an incarnation of Him.

Now, I'm disinclined to believe that the Bible is the end-all, be-all of Christianity. There's a lot more to it than that. So I suppose a better question would be, if (particular sect)'s rapture occured, what would you do? :p

[~BEBZ~]

Go see www.evilbible.com and follow the passages with your bible to see for yourself. If you reject the bible then you are rejecting that god, so it must be another god you are reffering to because the god of christianity/judaism IS evil.
Wow, that's a bit extreme. Even for a Bible hater like me. What I find funny though, is that almost all of that is taken out of context the same way as she condemns Christians for doing the same.

In almost every instance of the "human sacrifices", it is humans doing so with no direction from God. And the ones where he actually condones it, are punishment for sins.

And oh, wow, animal sacrifice! I sacrifice about a cow a year with my love of hamburgers, and I too enjoy the smell of animal flesh burning over a fire. Big whoop.

This loon is so far to the left that she is committing the same grievances she is condemning others for. And IMO, just as discountable. I prefer to listen to someone with a bit more sensible head on their shoulders.

NOT to mention, I'll have to go back and check, but I believe that nothing was said in the original post of this thread about the Bible being right, just if Armageddon and the whole "Jesus as my savior" thing were. It is possible for those to be true, and the Bible still be a crock.

Man, I can't BELIEVE you got me actually sticking up for Christianity! *shakes head*

[~BEBZ~]

!!!ORKIN ALERT!!!

That website gave me bugs!
My computer has slowed way down.
Having to run yet another scan.

Thanx new guy.

[Sequoia]

!!!ORKIN ALERT!!!

That website gave me bugs!
My computer has slowed way down.
Having to run yet another scan.

Thanx new guy.

Ugh, oh great. Now I've got to check mine, too.

[Phoenix Blue]

If you reject the bible then you are rejecting that god, so it must be another god you are reffering to because the god of christianity/judaism IS evil.
ADMIN MODE

Bashing of other faiths, including Christianity, is not allowed here.

[Ryd Firedreamz]

ADMIN MODE

Bashing of other faiths, including Christianity, is not allowed here.

See for yourself. www.evilbible.com follow it with a bible and you will see. I am only sayin the truth. and that also does not mean most Christians are evil, they are simply to ignorant of their own holy book to know.

[Ryd Firedreamz]

!!!ORKIN ALERT!!!

That website gave me bugs!
My computer has slowed way down.
Having to run yet another scan.

Thanx new guy.


How did it give you bugs? When I've gone to it, there was nothing, no virus related things adware, spyware.

Did you notice the part where it says that god killed millions of people by himself (including his angels) and yet Satan only kills 11 people? I found that to be really funny

[Phoenix Blue]

See for yourself. www.evilbible.com follow it with a bible and you will see. I am only sayin the truth. and that also does not mean most Christians are evil, they are simply to ignorant of their own holy book to know.
ADMIN MODE

Administrative decisions are not a matter of public debate. If you disagree with my decision, PM me or another admin. If you continue discussing this or bashing Christianity publicly, I will take more severe administrative action.

[Sequoia]

How did it give you bugs? When I've gone to it, there was nothing, no virus related things adware, spyware.

Did you notice the part where it says that god killed millions of people by himself (including his angels) and yet Satan only kills 11 people? I found that to be really funny

We know, we know. The Bible is full of hypocracy. It is worthwhile to note though that the Bible was written by human hands, and therefore is a flawed representation of God.

[Circe3]

Since in my opinion Jesus was more of a teacher and a prophet, unless he reincarnates which we wouldn't know it was him then I don't belive he will be coming to save the believers then no I wouldn't convert. I wouldn't die either because in my opinion god(s) loves everyone and no religion is the one true religion. All religions are just paths that lead to the same place. If you get lost on the way thats not the religions fault is the person because humans aren't perfect. The end of the world will probably come but I don't think anyone will be left behind, specially not because of their religion.
It's sad because Jesus was a good teacher. He taught tolerance and love for all and people have twisted his message.

[LordHelmet]

I don't know, which personality is God going to take on? If it's the one in Revelations, I would rather die horribly then give that *&%$ #&$% *&$%%$ing peice of $&*# @**$faced mother %*&^ing ... one ounce of praise. Of course hell seems like little more then a horrible death. Now, if it's Jesus and he's really as cool and as consistent as described in the gospels, different story. And as for that *#&@&$ ---BEEP--- in the a lot of the OT books, *&%^ him! I'd say it to his face to if that's what he's really like. Besides, the longer you cower to a bully the longer he keeps bullying.

At any rate it would take a lot more than a few biblical scale miracles for me to even begin to buy the all powerful dude up there with the master plan concept. I think I'd be quicker to believe that it was alien abductions making the people dissapear or even that a powerful but limited being that was playing his sick God game with the poor little humans of earth and was probably tourtering the rapture he just took. Why? because that would be more twistedly ironicly funny. Of course he could just be an alcholic too.

[Holly_Blackwell]

Thats the STUPIDEST most IGNORANT thing some one can say



He was being arrogant for telling you that you're decieved by hellish creatures.

Actually, from a very Christian perspective, this makes sense. They believe that God's is the only "good" power out there. So for example, the Bible says witchcraft is unholy. If then, a witch demonstrates herslelf to have power, that power could not becoming from God because God says witchcraft is bad. The only other thing that has power to go around is Satan. Therefore, a witch's power must come from Satan. I don't think it's ignorant. It's just simple deductive reasoning.
Using the same argument, ghost sightings become demons just pretending. And if when talking to your Goddess or whatever you happen to believe in that isn't the Christian God, those are just deamons pretending too.

Though, he probably could have found a nicer way to say all that. But then again, I'm not sure there is a nice way to say, "I think all your religious beliefs are based around deceptions by demons."
Same way there isn't a nice way to say "I think you're going to go to Hell."
But the better intentioned Christians don't mean this in a bad way, bad as it sounds. To them it's just the facts of life.

[plumedsnake]

I just like to add a couple more thoughts for your considerations.

How do christians know that the God they are worshipping is the True 'Good' god? Seeing as SAtan is such a clever hoaxer how are they sure that they aren't worshipping demons masquerading as God. If that were the case then they would be going to hell too.

Furthermore, with all the denominations of xtianity, if only one is True then the greater part of the christian population are still going to hell anyway. I know that a lot of fundamentalists think that Catholics are going to hell etc.

Well I've always believed that people should be judged by their own criteria. If a man says pickpockets should be hanged and then is caught stealing, it is only fair that the man should be hanged. Christians, Jesus to be precise, state their criteria for judging good from evil quite explicitly. When asked how to separate the fake from the genuine messages from God, Jesus said, you shall know them by their fruits. An evil tree cannot bear good fruits and neither will a good tree bear evil fruits.
So let us take a good look at the Fruits of Christianity. Oh dear, it is not looking too good. I don't even know where to start but it seems to me that their God cannot be anything other than pure adulterated evil.
God told Bush to invade Iraq. So we now clearly know what kind of God Bush is worshipping. Evil, in one word. . . .

All this by the christian criteria, you understand. I wouldn't myself judge anyone, or anyone's God to be Good or Evil in that absolute sense.

[cydira]

Would I convert if the rapture happened?

Why should I need to?

If you look at the Catechisim of the Catholic Church, it states that one's revealed experience of God is valid. It's in the beginning where they are discussing the Church's relationship with other faiths.

Now, if you take that perspective, you'd be foreced to argue then that we're all worshiping the same deity, just in different ways as per the independent revelations for each of us.

After all, didn't Jesus reveal himself to his followers in different ways. Taking that tack, can't we say that it's possible that we all have done so, accepted Jesus into our lives, but in the manner of which he chose to enter into the relationship with us.

This is just a bit of grist for the mill.

[Amethyst Rose]

I like that food for thought. But then you have to think...that's the Catholics, what about the protestants? Who's right?

I can't remember who said it, but I love the quote: Arguing about religion is like arguing about who has the best imaginary friend.

[cydira]

I like that food for thought. But then you have to think...that's the Catholics, what about the protestants? Who's right?

I can't remember who said it, but I love the quote: Arguing about religion is like arguing about who has the best imaginary friend.

Can't argue with that statement. :)

[ravenhecate999]

convert, if it's true, then it's true.

right you are...but in the meantime, i really doubt it.

[Diotima]

I'd die. I don't fear death, but I have great many reasons to dislike Christian God. If the very unlikely happens and I'll find myself one day standing in foot of his throne, about to be thrown to hell, I have a few selected words in storage for him before I go.

[Bhelleg]

Other. Fight.

I have no reason to disbelieve in another god. If it tried to coerce me to follow it, however, I would resist. "Convert or be plagued" smacks of coercion.

[LordHelmet]

I'd die. I don't fear death, but I have great many reasons to dislike Christian God. If the very unlikely happens and I'll find myself one day standing in foot of his throne, about to be thrown to hell, I have a few selected words in storage for him before I go.

Only a few words? I got a list.

God: Last words?
Me: Ya... Bla bla blaaa blaa :atantrum:
God: :shaker: :meanhead: :flamer:

[Diotima]

LordHelmet: Only a few. :hahugh: If a being had such attitudes towards his creations, it'd be easy to show him the error of his ways.

[LordHelmet]

Well I suppose so... but if I were headed for Hell, I'd have a lot more to say.

[Tasakii]

I imagine that if I get proof positive that what I have come to believe is going on is completely inaccurate, I'd have to reconsider.

We'd have to have quite the talk, and it would have to be all aligned in the subtle bodies screaming the truth.

Hmmmm. Actually, I think we'd probably have to have that talk on another vibration level. Changing vibrations doesn't necessarily mean death though.

I will never say I have experienced all the questions. Let alone have all the answers.

Tas

[Cyzarine]

I don't know. I picked other because I am a Christian witch. I just do what I feel is right and when I finally do pass from this life I will have all the proof I need to make any choices. Until then I can only hope I am right and stand by what I believe and let others do the same. I don't think there is just one way to get to a good afterlife.

[inkywitch]

Wow, 116 people, including myself chose 'Die'.


As far as my belief goes, I'll be resting and waiting for reincarnation, not so ad if you ask me. I'd die for a lot of things I hold close to my heart - my spirituality being one. I'm a bit stubborn like that :P

[SoulFire]

You know, at first I thought I'd convert. But then I remembered the other Gods the Bible alludes to. (See "We Are the Other People" (http://www.caw.org/articles/otherpeople.html).) I would find myself a more loving, compassionate God.

[Pagan Warrior]

This question has been thrown at me by Christians several times, and my answer is very simple ... I'll deal with it when it happens. That's part of my belief structure, I will not worry about what might happen tomorrow, because tomorrow is an illusion created by my own mind.

However, I do have this question to pose to this obvious Christian "save the world" individual (since you seem to enjoy the "what if" game). What would YOU do if the tables were turned? Rapture came, but instead of Jesus, the God and Goddess came strolling through this world holding hands telling you this was your last chance to be "saved" (as it would be). Would you accept them into your heart and betray your own beliefs?

[Grimr]

Rather have a hole in the head.

[Infinite Grey]

hmmm Rapture happens... means the Christians were right... and hell sounds like a nasty place... I'd convert within 5 minutes. ;) I think you'd be an idiot if you didn't.

[Grimr]

I rather suffer in hell for all eternity for my convictions as a act of my own willful disobedience.

That is courage and valour right there to choose your suffering for your convictions against all the cosmos and realities that consist of a jealous God.

[Avalanche]

I'd just get my friends, grab some guns, and go insane. I'd try to find a way to moon Jesus because I can put that on my list of "accomplishments" before going to hell. No way I'd go anywhere but hell. My friends and I are planning a party when we get there. And no force in the universe is going to stop it.

[DoktorSick]

i choose other.
If the rapture did somehow someway
really happen I think the earth would be
a better there be no fundies here to mess the
fun for the rest of us.

[debnmike]

If in fact the rapture does come, I highly doubt Jesus will take the time out to ask each of us big sinnin' pagans if we've "changed our minds".

I mean, according to the bible we are doomed already because we already rejected him and his teachings/philosophies anyway, so again I doubt he's gonna stroll on over at the end and say "Last call for the Heaven Express!"

[stella01904]

I mean, according to the bible we are doomed already because we already rejected him and his teachings/philosophies anyway, so again I doubt he's gonna stroll on over at the end and say "Last call for the Heaven Express!"

But the fundies say that the Jews are all going to convert at the last minute. :spaceman: Just the Jews.

Jewish people tend to say otherwise.

I'm with DoktorSick. Just watch 'em float away, like mylar balloons.....
:ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi :ballonsmi
:yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah: :yayah:

[Infinite Grey]

hmmmm my pride... eternity in torment... my pride... eternity in torment...


I ain't that proud :lol:

[Lone Heretic]

I voted "die", but I think it is kind of a silly question. The sect of Christianity that I grew up in didn't even believe in a Rapture.