Druidism & Presumed Honour: Warranted?

[Ron]

:javaswim: Howdy yall. (Yes, I do speak like that - so you can stop all the rumors. And yes, I do live in an urban area, and I have so since I was born.)

I notice that a lot of Wicca covens, will show as much honour, chivalry and respect to a visiting [modern] Druid, as they show their High Priestess (and in some cases, their High Priest as well).

Whereas, to a simple Pagan, of any path, no matter how *special* the High Priestess (and/or in some cases, High Priest) may introduce a visiting Pagan or Wicca to be - the visitor does not recieve the immeadiate - what I will term as - Catholic-clergy love.

It seems to me, from my experiences, that the minute the word "Druid" is invoked with regards to the Druid, all present immeadiately want to kiss his ring (Catholic custom) or to shower him with: "How goes it in the Oak grove, my wisened Brother?".

I find this disgusting. As an experiment I visited a coven, as a visiting Pagan. ZERO reception. ZERO, NADA, NITTO, ZIP.

Are True-Wiccae and Eclectic-Wiccae no longer interested in another boring lecture from a lunatic Pagan?? But a lecture from the county Druid? "Gee I wanna get me one of those."

I find this rather.... abnoxious. The prejudice here is so ludacris that I do not want to call myself a Druid. The title is earning me respect. Now, I say "simple druid" (no capitals) or "simple pagan" (again with no capitals).

I mean.... my lectures, or rather, what people refer to as my: "ancient Greek overthinking-everything philosophical sharing" are not half as good as Archdr. Em. Issac Bonnewits. Dangall, I have not even completed the ADF Dedication Program. (For the record I am under another organization.) Just because I call myself a Druid does not earn me extra respect and honour.

Who is with me? :whatgives

[Morgandria]

I think, to the perceptions of the coven, the difference is one of degree. "Druid", to many, is a title earned and recieved from one's peers - it is an initiation. They assume if you bear the title, or claim it, that you have earned it from a group of your peers. If they don't then ask follow-up questions, it's their fault for assuming.

That is a generalization, however. I don't think it would happen in some cases. I somehow doubt it would make any difference to the coven I am working with. They recieve everyone the same, polite and friendly, but if your initiation is not BTW you aren't the same as their priesthood or initiates and you won't be treated as such.

-M.

[Ron]

I think, to the perceptions of the coven, the difference is one of degree. "Druid", to many, is a title earned and recieved from one's peers - it is an initiation. They assume if you bear the title, or claim it, that you have earned it from a group of your peers. If they don't then ask follow-up questions, it's their fault for assuming.

That is a generalization, however. I don't think it would happen in some cases. I somehow doubt it would make any difference to the coven I am working with. They recieve everyone the same, polite and friendly, but if your initiation is not BTW you aren't the same as their priesthood or initiates and you won't be treated as such.

-M. Okay... But why can one not be treated the same as another?; barring hard earned respect of course.

[Ladyvi]

rhys. you cant alter their perception. no matter how uncomfortable it makes you. unfortunately. i know what you m ean. though i do respect someone that can get up in front of people and speak. that pretrifies me. and probably be the gods sick sence of humor to place me in that type of forum one of these days.~ rolls eyes~ but then how do we grow if we dont push our limits.

[tensen]

I try not to treat people differently. All along their paths deserve respect.

And I don't think what you envision is a universal occurance. There are probably other things in the past that occured in your area or groups of circles that cause the effect you encountered.

Now, speaking logically, there is a presumed level of training required to be a HP or HPS. Also a seemingly level of scholarly behavior from a druid. This can account for the attitude. People don't respond the same way when a general person talks about a field of study, as they would someone with a Master's Degree in that area as their field of expertise.

Everyone can and does proclaim themselves wiccan, or pagan, and you have no way to know the level of the training. So in that regard, you try and treat them as an everyday person.

I'm not saying it is right, or that the assumption makes sense. But I can see how it is.

[Dave the Druid]

hmmmm,

As a Druid, I have often been recieved with great grace and respect by Wiccans. I always return that level of respect. To me it is a showing of mutual respect. I do not crave this attention but it does feel good. For me it showing respect to other scholars in other disciplines. I do feel that respect strenghtens our community.

[odubhain]

:javaswim: Howdy yall. (Yes, I do speak like that - so you can stop all the rumors. And yes, I do live in an urban area, and I have so since I was born.)

<snip>


I find this rather.... abnoxious. The prejudice here is so ludacris that I do not want to call myself a Druid. The title is earning me respect. Now, I say "simple druid" (no capitals) or "simple pagan" (again with no capitals).

<snip>

Who is with me? :whatgives

I speak like that as well and I've lived in mainly urban areas and not all of them were in the South.

Many have worked long and hard to get respect for the idea of being a Druid or following the Druid Way. When one does either it implies a quest for knowledge, an upholding of truth and working for harmony. If that's what one does in life and fact, then I think that respect is deserved. If not, then please don't use the name/word/title/way-of-life/state-of-being a Druid to become confused in the minds of the many.

I do not usually say that I am a Druid but that I follow the Druid Way. I've been doing that in this life for about 20 years that I knew about and about 20 more before that when I was unaware what it was called. Being a Druid found me more than me finding it.

Searles O'Dubhain

[Ladyvi]

thats often as it happens. the path finds you.

[Dawa Lhamo]

rhys. you cant alter their perception. no matter how uncomfortable it makes you. unfortunately. i know what you m ean. though i do respect someone that can get up in front of people and speak. that pretrifies me. and probably be the gods sick sence of humor to place me in that type of forum one of these days.~ rolls eyes~ but then how do we grow if we dont push our limits. Well, you can alter their perceptions if you want to be disrespectful and act really rude. They might then second-guess respecting someone based on the title "druid" the next time one comes along. But do you really want to do that?

I think it has to do with the title, yes, and how it implies scholarship and a quest for knowledge and truth. But also consider the fact that you were going there to lecture as a druid. This implies, to me, that you've studied, that you are knowledgable enough to speak and teach. And they want to learn. Now if you go as a simple pagan, well, they're all pagans. Show me what else you got sort of thing. "Pagan" implies nothing specific amongst other pagans. They don't know if you're going to present what they already know or something new.

Now, if I just met you in a cafe or something and you said you were a druid, I'd think it's cool in the same way I'd think it's cool if you said you were pagan. But as an authority figure, as a representative of your path, you demand more respect until you disprove it. I'm going to respect you, whether you like it or not, until you show yourself undeserving. (Because I don't know what your faith entails, but if you've earned authority, who am to tell you no way?) Going in as just a pagan, well, I'd still respect you, but I'd be a lot more tentative about it, since I'm just a pagan, too. I'd want to know what makes you different from me. With a HP(S), I already know what makes them different. ^_^

Just my thoughts.

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Flappersquirrel]

:javaswim: Howdy yall. [
I find this disgusting. As an experiment I visited a coven, as a visiting Pagan. ZERO reception. ZERO, NADA, NITTO, ZIP.

Are True-Wiccae and Eclectic-Wiccae no longer interested in another boring lecture from a lunatic Pagan?? But a lecture from the county Druid? "Gee I wanna get me one of those."




Is it really the title? Or is the difference between being just a visitor, and being a lecturer? I'm not in a coven, so I can't say what the common method of welcome would be. As far as I know, most covens could collect members of other religions like Yu-Gi Oh cards. But I kind of doubt it.
Maybe it's because I'm a little starved for face to face pagan interaction, but I know I'd welcome a nice boring lecture from a lunatic pagan just as much as a country Druid.
(Maybe my missing the problem comes from not knowing the difference between the two. All I have is my intuition and an open mind. Hmm.)
I wouldn't be able to say what standards these covens use to judge people by. How many covens are we talking bout here? What kind of trads? Are they younger or older?
Also, for the lectures, did the covens apporoach you? Or did you make yourself available for them? That could have something to do with it.
Maybe you just haven't found your right audience yet. Though I don't see how anyone could not benefit from hearing about another person's experiences, whatever path or title they may have.
Also, I wasn't raised in a remotely religious environment, so I don't have that lingering putting on a pedestal of the clergy. *shrugs* Sorry your experiences were such a bummer.