The Challenges of Leo...

[Kadynas]

I have Mars in Leo in the second house and Saturn in Leo in the third... With my Saturn Return looming larger and the fact that I consider myself a creative individual, I've been thinking about what Leo means in my life and in my chart.

I've taken the view that I'm being challenged to express myself, both through my art and by standing up for myself. For a Sun-Aries, I'm pretty soft-spoken and shy until I get to know people really well, and I have a habit of letting myself be used as a doormat on occasion to avoid unpleasant confrontations. :lol: No, not very Arian of me at all!

But then again I have Pluto in Libra, not too far from my North Node, which would seem to imply that "others" will take important in my life and growth. So maybe I'm supposed to be the doormat for awhile? :lol: Am I looking at my Leo unrealistically just because I want to be an artist, because I want to be the (if only outwardly) confident and fun person that sign seems to represent? Is playing up my Leo side somehow going against the Libran goals?

Lately I've been trying to put myself - and my happiness - first, to hell with everyone else, because I'm so sick of being miserable and depressed. It seems to be working for me, but my analytical side wonders if maybe I'm just running away from my responsibilities in other areas of life. :lol: Just idle curiousity here, looking for speculation. I mean part of me feels like I have to take care of myself or I'm no good to anyone else anyways, while a sneaky little part of me whispers "oh you're just being selfish!" But I've lived so much of my life for others I feel like it's time to do some work on myself. :) Maybe then I can finally find something to offer, something to bring to my relationships that will add to them, strengthen them even... _wiz_

Thoughts?

[banondraig]

you may have something there with the idea of being challenged to express yourself. i would think that the north node in libra thing would be a call to balance this with others' needs, especially since you have an aries sun, and could thus be expected to run roughshod over people. :lol:

the part of you that says you're no good to anybody unless you take care of yourself is right. i think it's telling that you describe the other part as "sneaky." :)

[Kadynas]

:lol: Makes a lot of sense... I mean I don't want to be considered selfish by any means, but I feel like most of my life I've mainly focused on others... usually men... :lol: ...and built my life around them, with them as the center of my universe. I think now I'm finding my own center, if that makes any sense. I told my one friend "Well I'm just going to make myself happy and everyone can feel free to follow if they want!" :lol:

You make a good point... Libra's about finding the balance. I think maybe that "sneaky" part of me has taken it to mean to put others first even at my own expense way too often. :) Thanks for the insight! :hugz:

[banondraig]

you're welcome, any time!

i know exactly what you're saying about the center. :)

[KEishin]

I'm a Mars and Saturn in Leo as well (but mine are in the 3rd). Being in almost the same situation as you, here's my take on things, from my perspective:

Saturn's lesson: I see it here as telling the self that they need to bring their creative impulses to their public life. Leo's often have the reputation or feeling of being special or chosen, which can come across as arrogance. Often this can be pounced upon by elders and make this child feel like they aren't good enough or strong enough. But remembering that they are the person who needs to rekindle the fire will often bring one out - don't wait for another to do it. Saturn comes along to give one that reminder, sometimes gently, sometimes harshly. Greatness comes out of adversity and all those other cliches.

Mars is pushing one to be out there and enjoying the limelight, but Saturn's speaking of being careful and considerate of others, perhaps too much. The strong willpower of Mars may be thwarted by Saturn at the moment, but when they come together . . . look out world! One wants to acheive something in life, but they fear not doing it good enough or "right". Rejection is not something a Mars in Leo deals with well . . . Oh boy do I know that!

For me as well, the need to get my art out of my own life and into those of others has become increasingly strong. I have massive stage fright (Saturn in Leo in 3rd) and as such have never felt comfortable with the idea of singing in public or having a showing of my illustrations. As much as my friends and family tell me I'm talented enough for three people, I'm still to shy to put myself out there. I have Mars saying "gee it's fun being the center of attention" and Saturn going "woah now, let's not get carried away. Heady mix, at least for me.

[Kadynas]

I'm a Mars and Saturn in Leo as well (but mine are in the 3rd). Being in almost the same situation as you, here's my take on things, from my perspective:

Saturn's lesson: I see it here as telling the self that they need to bring their creative impulses to their public life. Leo's often have the reputation or feeling of being special or chosen, which can come across as arrogance. Often this can be pounced upon by elders and make this child feel like they aren't good enough or strong enough. But remembering that they are the person who needs to rekindle the fire will often bring one out - don't wait for another to do it. Saturn comes along to give one that reminder, sometimes gently, sometimes harshly. Greatness comes out of adversity and all those other cliches.

Mars is pushing one to be out there and enjoying the limelight, but Saturn's speaking of being careful and considerate of others, perhaps too much. The strong willpower of Mars may be thwarted by Saturn at the moment, but when they come together . . . look out world! One wants to acheive something in life, but they fear not doing it good enough or "right". Rejection is not something a Mars in Leo deals with well . . . Oh boy do I know that!

For me as well, the need to get my art out of my own life and into those of others has become increasingly strong. I have massive stage fright (Saturn in Leo in 3rd) and as such have never felt comfortable with the idea of singing in public or having a showing of my illustrations. As much as my friends and family tell me I'm talented enough for three people, I'm still to shy to put myself out there. I have Mars saying "gee it's fun being the center of attention" and Saturn going "woah now, let's not get carried away. Heady mix, at least for me.
:lol: Exactly! Especially that last part! :) I have a great deal of stage fright myself, though I am able to make myself sing in front of others after the initial spell of panic. :lol: But especially with my art, I can't do it if anyone's watching me. I need to be alone to create and I'm also very shy about showing what I do to anyone. There's always that fear of rejection there I find; that must be a big Mars/Saturn in Leo thing because I see it in so many different areas of my life. (Saturn's in a T-Square with my Venus and Uranus, as well as a Grand Trine with Mercury & Neptune/Pallas/Vesta so he's pretty "involved" in my life. :lol: ) I tend to be easily crushed; in art and in love. When someone's passion for me dies, I feel like a part of myself dies as well. Luckily the few people I have trusted with my work seem to love it... bless their little hearts! :D And slowly but surely I'm learning that I'm the only one who can be responsible for my own happiness, so I better get out there and do it.

[KEishin]

I've got a pretty active Saturn too (Grand Trine to Neptune, Pallas, Vesta DC; a loose T-Square to the Sun and Uranus). I'm pretty self-assured in everything, except love and the arts. :(

I'm really hoping when the Big Guy comes along in a few months that some of that will subside. Hopefully my butt won't get kicked TOO hard for my youthful mistakes. Only 11 months to go, gee whiz. (And besides one always starts feeling the effects of a cycle before in a true orb.)

[banondraig]

would saturn rising in leo in the 12th be related to the expression issues?

[Mnemosyne]

Hi, it's an astrology inept person. What does it mean to have Mars in Leo, or Saturn in Leo....etc? Is there a thread here or good internet link that you guys could recommend?
Thanks

[Kadynas]

Hi, it's an astrology inept person. What does it mean to have Mars in Leo, or Saturn in Leo....etc? Is there a thread here or good internet link that you guys could recommend?
Thanks
This is a good link... looks like people typed up everything from every book they owned! :lol:
http://groups.msn.com/interpretations4/_whatsnew.msnw

Banondraig: I definitely think it could relate to expression issues... Saturn being in the 12th could cause a lack of confidence, and the 12th being a "hidden" house, you might not even understand what's making you nervous much of the time. But at the same time the Ascendant is your outward personality, and one would think it would be pretty hard to put much of a damper on Leo. :lol: Alternatively you're able to act very confident and "life of the party" even if you're not really feeling it.

[banondraig]

This is a good link... looks like people typed up everything from every book they owned! :lol:
http://groups.msn.com/interpretations4/_whatsnew.msnw

Banondraig: I definitely think it could relate to expression issues... Saturn being in the 12th could cause a lack of confidence, and the 12th being a "hidden" house, you might not even understand what's making you nervous much of the time. But at the same time the Ascendant is your outward personality, and one would think it would be pretty hard to put much of a damper on Leo. :lol: Alternatively you're able to act very confident and "life of the party" even if you're not really feeling it.


thanks, Kadynas!

i have noticed that when i don't want people to notice i'm depressed, all i have to do is dress up fancy. that goes with Leo, right? :lol:

[Kadynas]

thanks, Kadynas!

i have noticed that when i don't want people to notice i'm depressed, all i have to do is dress up fancy. that goes with Leo, right? :lol:
Definitely! :D Me, I'm a Gemini Rising so I just start rambling on and on... :lol:

[Valkie]

my gods Kady... that sounds like what I've been going through for the past couple of weeks.

Uranus is making it's final pass over my N. Moon (I feel like someone is beating me off the head and screaming "change damn it!") and Saturn is sextile to N. Sun... which is definately helping go about the change that Uranus is demanding.

I've got so many transits going on right now I feel like I'm super-charged and it's all getting me ready for my Return. The way that things are going right now, I'm actually looking forward to it!

[Kadynas]

I've got so many transits going on right now I feel like I'm super-charged and it's all getting me ready for my Return. The way that things are going right now, I'm actually looking forward to it!
Same here! :lol: Over the past few months I've had just about everything but the slow-movers pass over my Pluto, Uranus/Vertex and Neptune, as I'm sure you have as well. :) Everything seems to affect my T-Square in some way, but even though Saturn's part of the T-Square, at least he's also part of a Grand Trine. :lol:
With Uranus going over my Midheaven too, I've found myself saying "Ok I'm ready for change... anything has to be better than this!" :lol: Guess I just gotta be careful what I wish for when I finally start making the changes eh?