This puzzles me

[Antoninus]

This question came up when I was replying to my thread about why men turn INTO jerks.

Why are men who are jerks so celebrated? Basically the age old question "Why do the jerks get all the chicks?" It DOES seem like most of the people who are successful in life are total jerks. This one guy (Who's BRAND NEW BMW is just SCREAMING to be keyed, my powers of resisting are fading quickly) who lives down the street, hes the owner of a couple of local businesses. Hes got a fair ammount of cash and a pretty stable lifestyle. His girlfriend (Shes about...22, 23 maybe) VERY nice woman, I talk to her occasionally, very pretty, very smart. But the guy is a jerk beyond compare, he has that whole haughty atitude of "Why do I have to even breathe the same AIR as these....miscreants?"

For those of you who are in or who remember back to high school, didnt it seem like good girls always went for guys who were just...absolute jerks.

I dont get why that is.

[memnoch]

because those willing to be "jerks" are willing to step on the little people to succeed in life. "Jerks" are considered that because often they keep themselves as #1 and get far in life because of it. As far as with women, women don't want guys who are "safe". Trust me, I've been the "safe" type way too often. They want the bad boy, but complain when they cant turn him into prince charming

[Antoninus]

And thats what puzzles me, I know the "fixer up" theory, girls want to date bad men because they think they can fix them, but after it fails two or three times, why dont they realize "Hey, this may not actually work."

[memnoch]

also this is the second thread by you about the same basic thing. We understand you believe yourself to be a nice guy, and I don't know you to know whether you are or not. But the bottom line is life isn't fair, and you will probably continue to get no where as the "nice guy"

[Infinite Grey]

my friend (a really nice guy) said it best when observing couples "It's like women WANT to be treated badly"



And I think to a large degree it is true, (oh know he didn't say that!) how many women do you know want a "nice" guy but always seem to date "jerks" when if they opened their eyes they would see that guy over there that they're not attracted to is probably the best bet for a nice guy.

[Antoninus]

also this is the second thread by you about the same basic thing. We understand you believe yourself to be a nice guy, and I don't know you to know whether you are or not. But the bottom line is life isn't fair, and you will probably continue to get no where as the "nice guy"
Im not talking about me here. I use personal experiences to back up what I say but Im not trying to "validate myself" or get extra attention or praise. Im asking an honest, serious question that was spawned by curiosity. I know I may ACT like I know everything sometimes, but I assure you, I dont :D In my first thread, yes I was a little bitter and upset about my "friend" but that wasnt the sole reason I posted the thread.

[PoisonIvy]

To be quite honest the "jerks" I dated weren't rich they were more your "bad boy" type,so I must have been attracted to the "element of danger" thing or their large.......oh well,nevermind! All I know is being with Mr.Jerk was the most fun I ever had in my life! Oh the memories.
Blessed be! :lol:

[Infinite Grey]

To be quite honest the "jerks" I dated weren't rich they were more your "bad boy" type,so I must have been attracted to the "element of danger" thing or their large.......oh well,nevermind! All I know is being with Mr.Jerk was the most fun I ever had in my life! Oh the memories.
Blessed be! :lol:

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury I present exhibit "A"

[PoisonIvy]

At least I'm honest Iggy! :lol:

[Infinite Grey]

At least I'm honest Iggy! :lol:
Did I knock you for it ;) who said I was a nice guy? _wedgie_

[PoisonIvy]

I think you're nice! You just don't want anyone to know it,that's all. :lol: You must be one of those bad boys with the large I.Q.

[Infinite Grey]

I think you're nice! You just don't want anyone to know it,that's all. :lol: You must be one of those bad boys with the large I.Q.

:collapse:thankye... I think

[trippingdaisy]

To be quite honest the "jerks" I dated weren't rich they were more your "bad boy" type,so I must have been attracted to the "element of danger" thing or their large.......oh well,nevermind! All I know is being with Mr.Jerk was the most fun I ever had in my life! Oh the memories.
Blessed be! :lol:

oh I so used to go for the 'bad boy' type! now I wouldnt go anywhere near. I have the last one to thank for this new attitude..... he kicked me out of my own flat, threatened to have me beaten up, stole all my money, my self respect, and my dog. the good times we had all occured in the first 2 weeks of us knowing each other.
also, they more often than not tend to be full of s**t- ladies, go out with the nice guy. they turn out to be more fun and interesting in the end, anyway! (in my experience, anyway!)

[Infinite Grey]

oh I so used to go for the 'bad boy' type! now I wouldnt go anywhere near. I have the last one to thank for this new attitude..... he kicked me out of my own flat, threatened to have me beaten up, stole all my money, my self respect, and my dog. the good times we had all occured in the first 2 weeks of us knowing each other.
also, they more often than not tend to be full of s**t- ladies, go out with the nice guy. they turn out to be more fun and interesting in the end, anyway! (in my experience, anyway!)
hmmmm that guy goes beyond the realms of "bad boy" and "Jerk" and into the world of the @sshole

[trippingdaisy]

hmmmm that guy goes beyond the realms of "bad boy" and "Jerk" and into the world of the @sshole

:rotfl: haha, yeah that would be more accurate description, actually! and what I said about him was only the tip of the iceberg. I just laugh when I see him now- he's almost a cartoon character of himself. still p***ed of about the dog though. I've tried to find out where he is, but dont think ex even lives in the country anymore. last I saw of him was about a year ago.

[Infinite Grey]

I think you're nice! You just don't want anyone to know it,that's all. :lol: You must be one of those bad boys with the large I.Q.
Actually when I come to think of it, what makes you think I have a large I.Q. :whatmewor Tests show I have only a slightly above average I.Q. _twohorns_ That's right I'm not AS dumb as the average beer swilling, nut scratching, nose picking slob. But I'm close _wth_

[PoisonIvy]

Iggy hun,I wasn't talking about your brain! :lol:

[Infinite Grey]

Iggy hun,I wasn't talking about your brain! :lol:

oh... :damnpc: point and case

[PoisonIvy]

You're pretty funny you big attention whore! (I meant that in a nice way!)

[Infinite Grey]

You're pretty funny you big attention whore! (I meant that in a nice way!)

And devilishly good looking too _firedevil

[Xentor]

As far as with women, women don't want guys who are "safe". Trust me, I've been the "safe" type way too often. They want the bad boy (...)

My experience is quite the opposite.

[-Sky-]

Antoninus has a great point here and a long issue.:)
What annoys me more is the "jerks always get the best" part.I won't talk about this a lot because it is another issue but i find it really unfair!I am a good person,well i am not a saint but when i act i think of others and not only myself.And what do I get?Mean comments,direspect and usually a huge "nothing".But ruthless people who think only of themselves get money,fame,huge houses,the best girls or boys.
Now about why women prefer the jerks... Tell you the truth,most of my friends go for these type of guy and i like jerk-type guys twice or more.I think it is inevitable.Like someone else said they have the "element of danger" and they are a temptation a woman can't resist.I am not sure if all women are gluttons for punishement but i know that they chase what they can't have.But personally,i am not a girl who will run behind a stupid jerk who doesn't respect me.Not anymore. Truth be told,i am charmed by bad guys,see Colin Farrell but i've set some rules to keep me from falling.
But Antoninus,don't despair... Women who really know what they want like nice guys,like you *smiles* And finally most of the women settle down with a nice guy.Personally i don't care any more for bad guy because simply they have nothing more to offer.So wanna go for a coffee?LOL i'm kidding

BB,
~Anna

[~SeaWitch~]

I agree with the theory some women like to date jerks, but I think experience and maturity have a lot to do with it too. I dated my share of jerks in my 20's, and worked for a good number as well. I still had a lot to learn in spite of what I thought I "knew" about men and how it all worked in general. The lessons you learn in life add to your self-confidence, which helps you form a clear picture of what you want and are willing to accept from others.

I'm in my 30's now and am happily married to a nice guy, and working for another one. When I look back on some of my experiences I cannot believe how I let myself be treated! Live and learn... :steppy:

[gwendar]

I don't like jerks. Never have. I'm attracted to nice, thoughtful guys who are a lot of fun, and with whom I can have intelligent conversations.
I don't care for the "element of danger."
And I learned this lesson young, I'm only twenty! :)

[Temptation]

Like someone else said they have the "element of danger" and they are a temptation a woman can't resist.I am not sure if all women are gluttons for punishement but i know that they chase what they can't have.

Needless to say, I totally agree. :lol:

There's one thing that hasn't been mentioned, though. Women like bad boys,true, but nice guys also like bad girls. I know, I was one for a long time and the guys that were attracted to me were always the good guys. Which really annoyed me to no end, because, like most women I wanted the bad boys to notice me. :lol:

[greenwitch]

yeah the nice girls in my high school always go for the total a**holes...erm, as you put it the stuck-up jerks. I dunno why, maybe the whole bad-boy phase thing, I know I did that whole thing for the past year :hrmm:
but yeah, my dad is actually one of those jerks. wonderful that I live with him! "eww how could that person be so disgusting, why are they here around me?" and he would be refering to someone who is overweight, or who is wearing a dirty coat or something, someone who doesnt look or dress like him. he thinks hes :crown: I oughta knock him off his darned thrown...

just like all the other jerks that are on their pedestal, just knock em off!!

[semi]

The fact that there are many non-jerk guys who are happily involved with very nice women disproves the idea that women like jerks. I think, Antoninus, you're looking for something that you want to find to back up your idea while ignoring other evidence that makes it untrue. A relationship where the guy is a jerk may get your attention because it's a more dramatic relationship while you don't notice the more normal stable healthy relationships. The normal relationships far outnumber the jerk relationships.

But the only way to have a good relationship is to just be yourself. Don't be a jerk, but don't TRY to be a nice guy either. Just be you and you'll end up meeting people who aren't interested in jerks or nice guys, but who are interested in you.

These are just opinions and not to be taken as facts based on any empirically verifiable research. But my research team (consisting of myself) has conducted tests in various bars, bookstores, cafes, grocery stores, laundromats, etc. and results have been positive.

[Brielle LaLune]

And devilishly good looking too _firedevil


LMAO With an ego to match those devlish good looks! :nyah:

[-Ember]

Well... things I have noticed (and gleaned from the inumerable strangers who seem compelled to tell me of such things...)

Reasons "Jerks" tend to get the girl:

1) They tend to be self centered enough to pursue what they want... and expect to get it. It is flattering to be wanted by someone with confidence. A lot of nice guys don't pursue, tend to suffer in silence, don't let the girl know they are interested or if they do approach her, do it with no confidence... almost expecting to be rejected. Which then tends to happen. Either it doesn't feel like they are really interested (and not just being nice) or wonder what is so wrong with him that he feels she shouldn't be interested.

2) Status and a self perpetuating circle. When younger the jerk tends to be one of the "cooler" more popular guys. Just like dating the head cheerleader is a status coup, so is dating the guy all the other girls supposedly want. When older, he either can be the jerk that allows the older woman to capture some of that high school longing to be the girl who got to date the jerk or he has walked over enough people to get what he wants that he has acquired stuff worth wanting. It might not be a happy loving relationship, but it feeds some needs. And if you are a woman who doesn't expect love (conciously or not) having those other needs met is good enough.

3) They don't. They get a lot of the girls in a certain range. The ones the nice guys tend to also want. The younger (20's-ish) less experienced ones, the ones who are flattered and still think they can change him sort. I've known a lot of "nice guys" and every one who brought up this complaint was upset because the highly wooed girl wasn't interested in them. The "nice but not outstandingly pretty" girl who was interested in them... well, she didn't count. Now, there are also a lot of nice not-so-hot-as-to-count girls also interested in the bad boy, but it usually was because of the flattery factor. If the bad boy wants her then she must be want-able... he's too self centered to be interested otherwise.

4) I've known women who do it for security. If she fills a need in him, he will cling to her. This is a scary one, because I've known women in VERY abusive (beaten half to death type) relationships who follow this line of logic. He needs her at a very basic self-centered infantile level and she needs to feel needed.

Edited because I forgot two:
5) Because it lets her out of the social mold too. Women have more pressure on them to be nice than guys do. Dating a jerk gives a women more room to be outside those socially appropriate nice norms. Even if she can't, she can at least live vicariously through him. He gets to be the inner darkness she doesn't feel allowed to express.

6) it can be self esteem... she migh not feel like she deserves a nice guy... especially if she feels like she isn't really known, that he only sees some outer image.

Obviously, most of these are things that the more self aware/actualized women moves beyond... just like the guys demanding the virgin/whore thing grow out of it.

[charmedkisses1]

This question came up when I was replying to my thread about why men turn INTO jerks.

Why are men who are jerks so celebrated? Basically the age old question "Why do the jerks get all the chicks?" It DOES seem like most of the people who are successful in life are total jerks. This one guy (Who's BRAND NEW BMW is just SCREAMING to be keyed, my powers of resisting are fading quickly) who lives down the street, hes the owner of a couple of local businesses. Hes got a fair ammount of cash and a pretty stable lifestyle. His girlfriend (Shes about...22, 23 maybe) VERY nice woman, I talk to her occasionally, very pretty, very smart. But the guy is a jerk beyond compare, he has that whole haughty atitude of "Why do I have to even breathe the same AIR as these....miscreants?"

For those of you who are in or who remember back to high school, didnt it seem like good girls always went for guys who were just...absolute jerks.

I dont get why that is.
I AM in highshool and I understand.. actually we talked about this in chat last night. Personally I think jerks attract other jerks :D I like the nice guys with a little bad, not the bad with a little good.

[-Sky-]

I like the nice guys with a little bad, not the bad with a little good.
I totally agree with this!Nice guys with a little bad are the best!;)
And well done Ember!You have covered the points why women tend to like jerks.*thumbs up*

[sarabethv]

Sigh. Once again. Some women do like the nice guys, but those nice guys are usually sitting in my or otherliving room/s complaining about how some awful female has treated them badly. Bad is exciting. But after a while gets kinda old.

[Tina]

I know I go for the bad boys/jerks too, I don't know why. I can't explain it, its just something that is. I don't really like it & I don't know how to change it or if I should. I just don't know. I'm confused!!

[Valkie]

I'll be the first to admit that I didn't read any of the other posts before hitting the 'reply' button, so forgive me.

1. I never understood the 'complete jerk' situation. If someone was a complete jerk to me, I ignored them or told them to... umm... you get the picture.

2. everyone is a little bit of a jerk. It's needed. Alot of the 'nice' guys that I know have no backbone. They're insecure. They don't talk. They let people walk all over them. Now, imagine being with someone for the rest of your life that won't stand up for themselves, offer little mental stimulation, and don't challange your concept of reality. People want a partner, not a yes man.

Now, I know that there are nice guys out there that don't act like this. For that other 50%, it's the other person!! Not you! People are complex creatures. Everyone says they want a nice guy, but honest to god, there are people out there that have thier own issues and put themselves in self-destructive relationships because it's all that they know and they can't get themselves to break the habit.

Then, there are the people who say they want a nice guy, but can't handle the reality of it. They don't feel that they are worthy or become board. That too is thier issue.

But think of it this way... why aren't all these nice guys trying to get together with 'nice' girls? I was friends with some nice girls in high school, and they couldn't get dates either. It was because they didn't fit what everyone was sprouting off as being beautiful or girly. I didn't date until I was 15... it wasn't because my parents wouldn't let it or because I was a jerk. Honestly, I found out later on that I scared most of the guys that liked me away and all I was doing was just being me.

I said before and I'll say it again, this is a human issue. People are superficial and self centered... expecially in high school. It gets better... much better, once school is left behind.

ETA: would you really want someone who liked you for what they thought you were rather than what you really were?

[sari0009]

People tend to admire nerve and power in men and until they better realize the kind of hard earned mental clairity and ethical stamina (as well as the ever important imagination) that best accompanies it ...they continue to go for the shallower and/or even abusive jerks.

Often it takes a few years experience before people start making the the connections as to why it's so important for both sexes to have their wits about them as well as good character, skills, ethics, and stability.

I think people feel that breaking rules and being a jerk is part of being very powerful and worldly...Which rather speaks of the totally bogus "worldy/exciting/bad vs. good/boring" dichotomy...The funny thing is that the more people that share that reality the more true it is for so many (but not all).

Of course, there are those who break the "rule" that you have to be a jerk and break the rules to get ahead or get the chicks/mates.