Pagans As Warriors or Peacekeepers?

[Myst]

Comments?

[MistOfTheSea86]

Very intereseting...

To me I see a pagan as a trustworthy knightin his full plate mail with a crescent on it's chest. He is loyal to his ruler and will fight to the end for him/her. But they also dream of peace which is why they fight. BUt fighting drains them, so they do as little of it as possible:) So in a sense they are mediators but sometimes they do so at sword point... When all else fails...

[Swanspirit]

whenever they so choose............ it is the choice of each heart to decide their course and destiny.............
I thought as a peace loving flower child I would have children that are the same .....HAH HAH HAH AHA ...... not a chance .....LOL they are on their own paths........ they truly do come THROUGH you as Kahlil Gibran says......... and the Goddess has been kind enough to show me by providing enough " NOT " coincidences ... for me to know my childres are all on their own sacred paths.. and it isnt mine to interfere but to Bless them...... and love them...........
There is no other explanation (for me) for my son being on the path he is now.......what are the odds he would end up in the SAME BARRACKS as his grandfather ...... my father ..... in Hawaii of all places after he volunteered to go to Somalia???
My eldest son ... working in electron microscopy ..... and taking a side trip to the ANTARTIC for an environmental firm.... to check on toxic wastes there.....I HATE the cold............
My daughter ........choosing to be a mother and raise her children ...........
My children have taught me well ...... we honor and love each other by honoring the choices we make as well.......
Love and Light
Swannie

[Myst]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
whenever they so choose

Good answer :)

[EasternPriest]

Individuals as warriors or peacekeepers -regardless of their religion.

[Danustouch]

Personally, i believe that "Harm to None" includes ourselves. So I believe that it is our sacred duty, to protect ourselves. I don't think Witches and Pagans should go around SEEKING new battles. But that if they come to our doorstep, we should be willing to defend the Sacred Gift we are given...LIFE!

I also think, that those of us who practice Witchcraft, the craft of the wise, should seek other methods of resolving issues FIRST....but if those methods are not available...fight with everything you've got. It was good enough for many of our ancestors, it's good enough for me.

I think most of us wish for Peace, ultimately. But we should seek peace in ourselves first. Watch our own lives, and how we conduct ourselves. Peace, like many things, can be an contagious theme:)

But as I said....we are charged with a responsibility toward life, as a sacred gift. We are charged with the responsibility, of appreciating our value to the universe. So when the big bad wolf comes knocking at our door, we should sure as hell, get the old cauldron full of water, and ready to boil.

War Seekers, People who seek to destroy life, are, imo, seeking to destroy themselves, in some subconcious way. Unless they are truly mentally ill...they know the risks involved. Some of them, get a charge out of it. So they are creating their own destiny.

People who try to defend their own lives, and the lives of those they love, and the lives of innocents, are creating their own destiny too. The destiny of a Hero. :) And they are fully honorable.

We musn't assume that all warriors are warriors because of the thrill of destruction. Many warriors, are warriors because they are put here to defend:)

[Myst]

Originally posted by EasternPriest
Individuals as warriors or peacekeepers -regardless of their religion.

That's nice, but some people wanted to discuss the matter in reference to Pagans specifically.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Danustouch
Many warriors, are warriors because they are put here to defend

Very good point. Warriors make their own decisions, and who is anyone to force peace upon them?

For me, I went through a long period of being very strict Wiccan - following the Rede to the point where I didn't even want to think bad thoughts.

Then I met Hekate, the Morrigan, Kali, Tiamat, well the list goes on. Peace is great, sure, but sometimes chaos needs to happen before peace can. Sometimes one can't just sit there twiddling their thumbs hoping peace will just happen.

To me, part of Paganism is recognizing both the importance of the positive and negative, being both the peacekeeper *and* the warrior as the situation requires.

[loopy]

Both, at different times. There's a time for everything, definitely. To deny the light or dark is to deny half of yourself, which is pretty self-destructive, IMO.

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
I can only speak for me,and what my perceptions are.
It seems to me that various occult,Pagan,and Eastern religions became popular in the US,gained more adherents,during the 1960s.This is where we got many of the original leaders of Paganism in various forms.They were trying to find a way in the world that did not depend on the military industrial complex and corporate/capitalist America.So,of course,many were for peace,being against the Vietnam conflict and what was seen as a rising police state.Many were somewhat socialist or libertarian.This came out in their perceptions of their various paths,in the beginnings of the national Pagan movements anyway.Many also became "radical" environmentalists,because of the excesses of capitalism they had seen,things like the Cuyahoga River burning for instance.
This is what drew me to Paganism,to being a Witch.Going against the right v wrong mentality of Christianity and other world views.The ideas of Peace and Love attracted me,and I saw this in many of the things I read.The ideas that the environment,Mother Earth,is sacred,a part of us, and we should stop all this destruction.
Now,as I've studied,I've learned the value in the dark side of human nature and the Goddess,that there has to be a balance.But I usually lean toward the peaceful.I've opposed and protested just about every military action the US has taken in my lifetime.But I'm not a pacifist.Warriors are sometimes needed.In the present situation,I back military retaliation,against the right people.
So,I was attracted to Paganism because,for me,the Goddess represented Peace and Love.I know of her other aspects,and work with them occasionally,but fundamentally I'm a peace and love kind of guy.So I guess I'm a hippie or even a fluffy bunny in a way,but that's who I am.Those aspects of myself,I think,the Goddess likes.I think it's why I met her!
as always,
Peace and Love
BrightStar

[Danustouch]

BrightStar, you raised some wonderful points.

Perhaps we need to have people who are dedicated solely to peace in their magickal and philosophical practices. And...people who see themselves as defenders/warrior types. As I said, most Pagans and/or Wiccans that I know, don't see themselves as the type of warrior who is a "gun for hire"..lol. They see themselves more as defenders of Justice. So those who are meant to be soldiers, those who are meant to be Policemen, those who are meant to do magickal workings to increase the powers of justice..etc...are Just as valuable, as those who are here to do workings for peace.

I think the Goddess calls people to her, from both walks of life. For differen't purposes, and for balance.

[Laiste]

I feel that there is a need for balance between between being a warrior and a peacekeeper. One cannot exist without the other! As Pagans we always have to defend ourselves from the ignorance, intolerance and hatred that is directed at us...with no just cause. At the same time we strive to be peacekeepers to show our fellow humans that the preconcieved notions that they have about Pagans are wrong and we do this in a peacful manner.

[dancin'katie]

To me, being a warrior is about protecting those who need it and bringing justice to those who deserve it... much like my personal conception of wicca. So, I guess a wiccan is a warrior, whether they are fighting for their country or the last copy The Spiral Dance *g* But that is, of course, only one opinion...
Personally, I salute those pagans who have dedicated themselves to the protection of their society, whether as soldiers or policemen or judges or whatever.

[Shadowulfe]

In my Opinion i would say both....Allthough Pagans love peace, they will fight for that Peace when it is necessary. They will fight for their families if it's necassary, etc. But all Pagans love Peace as well....so it would have to be both

[Kaylara]

Personally, I think that we should be keepers of peace, only being a warrior when there is absolutely no other alternative. I would fight for the well being of others, trying as many non-violent approaches as possible for the given situation, but I will defend violently if needed, and only if every other avenue has been exhausted.

Kaylara

[Myst]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Personally, I think that we should be keepers of peace, only being a warrior when there is absolutely no other alternative. I would fight for the well being of others, trying as many non-violent approaches as possible for the given situation, but I will defend violently if needed, and only if every other avenue has been exhausted.

Kaylara

Yeah, but, who gets to decide when other alternatives have been exhaused, or when all nonviolent approaches have been tried, or when there's just no nonviolent way?

[Danustouch]

Well..IMO, that's where Personal Responsibility comes in. In other words, a person mustn't go off, half cocked to take care of a situation. ALOT of thought needs to go into it, ahead of time, alot of meditation, self analysis. Making sure that ones' heart and intentions are in the right spot. Making sure that a persons quest for Justice, isn't simply a quest for Glory, or Revenge. One of the problems that I had, with the Christian upbringing that I had, was that it kind of took away that personal responsibility. I was supposed to "Trust in the Lord", and "He" would take care of it. Read the Psalms, it constantly speaks of "God" delivering his people from their Foes. So...it was always.."turn the other cheek" and "Trust that God will deal with it.". IMO, that is similar to how some pagans say.."Let Karma sort it Out". Yes..there ARE situations, where the Gods will have a role to play in the outcome of a situation. There ARE situations, in which Karma will sort things out. However, when it comes to a matter of "Protection" from Further attacks, etc....I believe we must take an assertive role. I wouldn't want to follow a religion, in which my hands were tied. I wouldn't want to follow a religion/path/belief that didn't leave me to follow my heart, my instincts, and to trust myself to do the "right" thing. I believe that Wicca and Paganism are Self Empowering paths. They're paths which leave room for personal growth, reflection..and yes..ACTION. It is more..."interactive" in my opinion, than many world religions. Allowing a person more free will, and more alternatives to problem solving than.."Relying" on anyone else to solve their problems.

Yes...these problems must be solved with a GREAT deal of meditation, thought, and patience. That is, of course, unless someone's pointing a gun at your head, and there isn't any other alternative, but then to fight back. Slow and steady, wins the race, after all.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by Kaylara
Personally, I think that we should be keepers of peace, only being a warrior when there is absolutely no other alternative. I would fight for the well being of others, trying as many non-violent approaches as possible for the given situation, but I will defend violently if needed, and only if every other avenue has been exhausted.

Kaylara

This is what I think too...

[Myst]

So the fact that the person meditated and made an effort is more important then whether or not you feel they exhausted nonviolent resources first?