Just talking...

[AngelinBlack]

:( I have a friend who is a Jehovah's witness. Recently, she begged me to go to one of meetings. Of course..I went to make her happy, and I was curious as to what they had to say about Spirituality..cause I knew most of the talk would be about Wiccans..
And well..the talk began..and they started talking about how Satan makes us do 'his bidding' by making us thing we are phycics and so forth. As in Wiccans and the like..
He even read a story about a man changed from Wiccan Priest to Jehovah's witness. That as he changed, because of Wicca he had demons harrassing him in his sleep..hitting him..and banging on the windows of his home at night. And made him completely miserable..that he would cut himself..he could tell the future..and what not..and became deep into the occult..and if it were not for Jehovah, he would still be miserable for this day.
Im not going to say what I think about him. But It's been keeping me up for days. I cried last night because my friend just won't drop the subject. That I am wrong in my belief. When this belief that I have chosen has done no wrong..I do NOT cut myself thank you..I do not lay in bed at night dodging demon fists and listening to my windows rattle from them clawing at it..and if I did..I would admit myself to a mental robe and willingly put the strait jacket on myself..:p
And today, we hardly spoke a word. She keeps saying her belief is the Truth..and mine is False.....
I know I may sound like I am whining. I belive I am. I just really don't have anyone to talk to at the moment who would understand me....so if you read this..thank you for spending some time in your life to read a confused, hurt, teenage girl try to make amends with things...:G

[Shy Hawk]

Been there....and it's not easy. I don't know how a "friend" sit there and try to make you feel bad about yourself.
I realize that they think they are helping you, by showing you "their" truth. But, they are just making you feel like they don't care about how you feel, and what you believe. That's rather unfriendly of them. That should be mentioned to your friend.
Also, I'm not sure how "out" you are...but if you don't mind talking about it, you should go to that church again, and maybe explain that their stereotypes are completely wrong, and if they want to remain educated on the subject they should ask rather than assume. You can tell them that you are happy with your life, not plagued by guilt or "demons"....and you don't need them to validate your lifestyle. However, that they are wrong in their assumptions...and continuing to tell those stories and make those generalizations would be straight up lying.
Not sure if that made sense...I don't have the knack of getting from thoughts in my head to words on paper.
~Shy

[AngelinBlack]

I did try.
Well..I didn't go infront of all those people and go "Hey!! Your wrong!!" I was more or less quiet and rather thoughtful.
But I tried to explain to her yesterday. And she came right up to me today with two peices of paper with a quotes from a wiccan priestess and so forth saying stuff. And she was like "SEE! we talk to Pagans!" and thats what brought the silence between us a little. We're rather uneasy around eachother now because of this and I wish it wasn't so. So always has been a dear friend to me..
If I only had those two peices of paper I'd show you. Its part of one of their WatchTowers or Magazines titled "what is wicca" and generally they had most right but then again a lot of it was wrong..if that made sense there...;)
Im just deciding not to fight it. I can't change her thinking about her religon..and I know she cant change mine..but its not worth loosing her as a friend..Im just going to ask her kindly not to try to convert me because converting ME is like trying to make a mountain bow to wind...:D
Thank you deeply for replieing to my post..
Angel

[Twilight]

you should not be upset, your friend has it worse off than you. the jehova's witnesses are a cult, and if she does not help recruit new members, she will be shunned by her family and friends, and forced to move out!

you should look online, and find some documentation or pamphlets on cults, so you can make her understand that she is being controlled by this organization!

also, if you have a circle that meets occationally, bring her. you came to one of her meetings, right? so bring her to one of yours... help her understand that pagans are not about hate, demon worship, and evil.. we believe in nature and tolerance and freedom!

- twilight

[Shy Hawk]

Actually, that's not true. They are given the choice to go speak to others if they want to. They are encouraged, but not forced...
There is a lot of misinformation out there. At it's core it's a beautiful religion, like most.
...Your friend is just being intolerant.

[Myst]

The person is not a friend.

Tell them you won't take the harassment anymore. You know they care, but you refuse to listen to it.

And if they don't stop, stop taking their calls.

That's what I would do. :)

[Sora]

That, that's just awful. I recognise how it is to feel 'condemed' in someone's eyes, especially someone close to you.My father has quite recently done the same... Just tell them that you feel what you think is right, just as they feel what they thisk is. Talk. That's my sujestion, though I'm not sure if she would be willing to listen.

[AngelinBlack]

Sora: I have taken your suggestion and asked her not to anymore. And that I really don't think I won't attend her meetings anymore. Unless..maybe it's about Us again, just to see what they say again. :D But thank you kindly!! Hope we can talk more! :)

Willow Raven: I try not to stop talking to people because of their religon. I've noticed that if I don't..they do a double take and start respecting me more. Well..so far so good. But just in case if things get to bad..I'll remember what you said. ;) Thank you!

Shy: Once again I too agree with you. I know their not really a 'cult' and if she doesn't get any people to 'come over' she isnt kicked out. She's just questioned alot. And..if I can say this right. Pressured to work harder...so they can go to Paradise..etc etc..or something along those lines...correct me if Im wrong.

Twilight: Your right when you say I shouldn't be upset. I know what I believe, and I know what is in my mind. And I will treasure that no matter WHO and WHAT people say...


Thank you everybody! I hope I replied correctly. I hope I can talk to you guys more. Because I really don't belong to a Circle. Im looking into that Crystal Waterfall Online Wiccan College. I just enrolled into it. So Im hopin to learn more! :D (well..actually..((duh)) I know I will -tee hee-))

[Kadynas]

It's just so sad this day and age that people haven't learned to be more tolerant...even before I was Wiccan, I always thought it was ridiculous to think that there was only one correct religion. With the sheer number of religions out there, it seems impossible to believe that only a select few won't be going to hell with the rest of us! :lol: Not that I believe in hell anyway...
But I know where you're coming from...sometimes religious predjudice can be every bit as ugly as racism, and it sure doesn't hurt any less. It's just a shame that it seems to have come between your friendship... I think everyone has a right to believe whatever they want want. If it works for you, then great. It's when people try to push what they believe on others that bothers me. Maybe there are good intentions behind it, but anyone who tries to make you feel bad about your beliefs, or frighten you about them from the sounds of it, doesn't seem to be a very good friend to me....
Sometimes you just gotta be true to yourself, even when noone else agrees with ya... :)

[Myst]

Originally posted by AngelinBlack
Willow Raven: I try not to stop talking to people because of their religon. I've noticed that if I don't..they do a double take and start respecting me more. Well..so far so good. But just in case if things get to bad..I'll remember what you said. ;) Thank you!

It's not about religion, sweetie, it's about someone not respecting your feelings. When a "friend" can't stop making you upset they aren't a friend you should be around.

[MammaStar]

It is a shame that people act this way. I have 3 very close friends who are VERY Christian. One knows my path, & he respects me for it, as I respect him for following his. We have, though, agreed not to talk about religon. We talk about EVERYTHING else, just not religon. He's one of my oldest & dearest friends and because we care about each other it works. Then there's another friend who's Lutheran, he's the greatest. I can talk religon all the time with him because he doesn't condem me, he actually LISTENS. Which I find totally cool!
My third friend, well, she doesn't know my path, and I don't think I will ever tell her. Not for a while yet. She's very Catholic and we've become good friends these past 2 years. I'm afraid she may not be able to overcome her sterotypes and may actually dump me as a friend. It may sound silly or not very "friend" like, but I think some people are just best kept in the dark about my path.

Then there's Eschallet's brother & his fiance. Talk about Born again! Whoo Boy. Everytime I'm around them I make sure my pentacle is tucked safely away behind my shirt. I've actually taken it off in their prescense, because I don't want a hysterical scene. And BELIEVE ME, THERE WOULD BE A SCENE. Which is probably why I'm not in the wedding party.....BUT that's a whole other story.

Just stand firm in your beliefs. I hope you can get her to come to a circle. It would be nice for yoru friend to learn more about our ways & followings. That way she could see for herself the truths & decide for herself if being a Pagan/Wiccan is so terrible after all.

I know a while back there was a thread, called Pathways. It was a very nice essay. I enjoyed it so much, I printed it out, & it's now in the beginning of my BOS. I'm gonna go & try to find it.

[Raynewitch]

Well personally, Id agree with Willow Raven on this one.....she sounds like she refuses to respect that you have your own path and nothing will convince her of this. Why does she want to change you? She liked you fine when she first became your friend, and now she is willing to let something as silly as religion divide you. Not a great friend, Id say.

I dont usually have a problem with Religion as a whole but there are certain groups I cant stand (just so everyone knows....just like not everyone believes in the Rede or follows it, not everyone is tolerant to other types of Religion, so please dont start telling me that I should be, I have my own reasons for dislike that I wont air :)) one being the Jehovah's Witnesses. I will readily admit that I know little about their practices, but nor do I want to. The one thing that stopped me from looking at the Religion was the ban on Blood Transfusions, any parent who would let their child die (as one eg.) so they can get to heaven/paradise etc I have no time for, nor do I care to learn about them. If Wicca or Witchcraft had such beliefs and my family was hurt and needed blood, I would let them take mine and screw the afterlife.

Sorry for the rant...I know I went off track I do apologise.....Im done.....I think.... :)

:elf: Rayne :elf:

[MammaStar]

I fond it, except I don't know i to post the link thingy, so what I can tell you, it's in the Gods & Goddess forum & it was started by Merrie. It's a great essay. I really enjoyed it. Show it to your friend, maybe it'll help her understand a little better.

[Shy Hawk]

You can't stereotype either way on this one ya know? It's hard but picture this. I have three best friends in this world...one is a very religious Jehovah's Witness and the other two are Protestant Ministers. We certainly have some interesting conversations...but because we love eachother....they stay at conversation and don't go to arguments. I am me and they are them...and that's the way it's always been.
We respect eachother's differences...and that's what friendship is about.

Her religion isn't the problem, it's her unwillingness to see your point of view.

[flar7]

are a treasure and worth keeping, but if she pains you too much then you should tell her. Christian religion stresses love and forgiveness, and yet, few people actually practice it, or only practice their version of it. Friends of a different faith can be very helpful in seeing life and how it affects your path.

Never give up on friends even when you cant see them anymore.
Many of my friends are avoiding me or vice a versa due to differences, relationships, problems, etc. But I wouldn't hesitate to come to an honest plea for help or understanding, and I hope that they would do the same for me.


Mysticwicks is many things for many people, but for me it is an assortment of friends that I just dont get to see!

[AngelinBlack]

Flar7: actually...I had a Christian friend..BEST friend through Junior high and part of highschool. She found out my interests and well..one day I left her house..the next day I come to find that her family had brought a priest to clean the demons out that I had brought..and they titled me "that satanist" girl.
and by far...I look nothing like a satanist....and..well..simple wouldn't practice to something that doesnt exist! ;)

But I never gave up. I kept my distance. Yah I cried a little because..well..it hurt...but now we talk still. She's trying to get close to me again because she misses me. And in a way I miss her..but sometimes she worries me..because other Christians think she has some 'mental issues' with how she see's christianity but still..she is a very sweet girl..anyway..

LdyStarlite: Ack! man..I can't find that survey your talking about. ((im not the brightest candle..let me just say that..)) I really want to see it!! :boing: hehehe

Raynewitch: I too have a few problems with certain religons. But I try to keep quiet about it and respect them. But sometimes its the people and not the religon...least it has been for me so far. But..yah..I dont like that blood transfusion thing either..my friend ((the Jehovah's witness)) always rants when she finds out I donate blood..I donated some for the Tragedy and she tsked tsked and I just..well..became the average 18 year old and told her to shut up my way.... :smash:

Kadynas : :rolleyes: Yah I get that too. My JW friend is always calling her religon the 'truth' and that Jehovah's the only god. She even had the nerve today to ask me to do a bible study..I don't know what to say to her but I just blurted out "no!" and I think I hurt her feelings but..unsure if I should grovel just yet but I dont think I well. But maybe re-arrange my 'intelligent' NO to something else respectful.. :thumbsup:

Thank you all again. You've really helped me out. Much thanks!!! :heartthro:

[Lilu]

Here's the thread that was mentioned. :) I love it too.

http://216.74.100.35/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3280

BB
Lilu

[Lavender]

I've always wondered what would happen if the reverse happened. What if WE went up to people & treated them the same way? What if WE start preaching to them that JW's are all just a cult, that Christianity is wrong & the Bible is a lie? Why do we have to hide our pentacles when people visit OUR houses? I don't see other people running to hide their bibles, crosses, etc when I come to visit them. What if we treated them with the same intolerance??? ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!

We're just people - just like them. We have jobs, raise families, pay taxes, and are responsible people. We don't have horns, we don't sacrifice babies or drink goat's blood!

Sorry, had to rant...

BTW, I really don't expect answers to these questions. :p

[Sora]

You, Wildchild, are very insiteful. I've been thinking along your lines... why is it the minority groups that suffer? One girl in my English class, who is very Catholic, did a presentation on God one day. I had to do a speech too, and mine was on the Salem witch trials. Near the end of my speech I said something about the Inquisition of 1692 being the catholic tribunal's murderous and appalingly intolerant way of punishing what they believed to be unorthidoxy. So was so mad, but in her speech she went on (and on...and on...and on...) about how any path but her's was condemed and how Wiccan's where... :razz: well, she just was not nice. Not in the least. She insulted at least 5 different cultures, in that one speech. And then she fliped when I said something about hers. I don't understand it...

[AngelinBlack]

Wildchild : I totally agree with you. I get to a point were I don't hide my pentacle anymore. I walked into my friends church to pick her up with it on, people raised brows..I just raised them back. I dont know if it was the right thing to do..but boy did I get a kick out of those faces they made. :D


Sora: I've had that happen. I did a speech on Wicca my sophmore year. I had a girl whip her bible out and PREACH during -my- speech..i had a candle with me..i was tempted to peg her in the head with it..but of course I didnt..my teacher loved my speech..everyone else was really interested and amazing at all the false things they knew and what the stuff I knew (the truth)
But she started praying..bowed her head and like..tried to make a bubble of jesus protection around her or something..it really made me upset during my speech but I pulled through..I had a lot of people backing me up after it though!!

:loveduv:

Angel

[SamuraiInBlack]

There have been times when I've been soooo tempted...

To listen to a person tell me that my beliefs are wrong when they find out I'm Wiccan. Then just smile and say "Well, at least I don't preach on about loving my fellow human being, then turn around and practically verbally murder them out of prejudice. Then claim that it's being done for my own good when you're not my mother nor my father. You're not a higher authority. You're not even above me on the food chain. You're just a human being, like I am, when you strip away everything that makes you and me. Therefore, you have no right to discipline me or tell me what to do."

Then happily and gleefully skip away.

I've been tempted. But I won't do it. I don't think it's worth the time.

[AngelinBlack]

hee hee...You have 81 posts and I have 18 (of course)
its a sign!

um..anyway..
yeah..well..when you come here tommorrow..just don't verbally insult this JW friend and make her hate me. I really dislike people hating me..specially over something like this..I dont need a nother Dixon... :wah:

wuv yu :heartthro: :heartthro: :heartthro: :razz:

[Sora]

Don't give them a reason to hate us, or fear us. They already do, for no reason at all....

[Raynewitch]

Angel, YAY! for you for giving blood :) Sorry had to say that, thats all I have to say hehehe.

Hmmmmmm I wonder what my boyfriends mother would say if I wore my Pentacle over to their home for dinner - shes a Baptist big time mwuahhhhaaaaa.

Rayne

[Sora]

Around my neck I wear a pentagle, and it is a nasty habit of mine to tuck it under my shirt whenever certain people walk by. Like my father. I don't know why I do it, really, I have a right to wear it just as some friends of mine proudly sport crosses all over the place. But, yet, I'm scared of some people's reactions...I don't think it fair I should be, however.

[MammaStar]

I think, at least for me, I hide my pentacle at certain times, because I just don't want to deal with it or I don't want people telling my son I'm a bad person for not believing in the common *God*. But believe me, there are times, I MAKE sure I have it in plain view. Work for one thing, especially since I've been wearing it out in the open for about 3 months now & NO ONE HAS SAID A THING! Pretty cool, but we're a mixed bunch @ C/S. :D

I also make sure it's in plain sight when I'm in the mall & especially when I walk into a certain store, Hot Topic. I know there's a bunch of them out there. It's a Goth-teeny-bopper store, at least that' my opinion cause all that works there are Goth kids looking like the Punk Rockers from the 70's & 80's. I like the clothes they sell in the back of the store, plus they have some neat t-shirts. Other than that, I think it's a place for kids to try & shock their folks. JMO. :rolleyes:

Tonite though, when I went to Back to School nite at my son's school. I tucked it under my t-shirt. I don't want my son to be ridiculed for my beliefs. School's hard enough, especially for him socially. No need for Mommy to add to it.

Yes, I wish people would be respectful and tolerant. But as we all know, the world is an imperfect place. Funny, how crosses, Jesus statues, & Mary's with a burning heart are accepted in households, but hang one little pentacle in your home, & your labled a devil worshipper. :rolleyes:

[Lavender]

I don't even own a pentacle, until now. After posting that, I went out & bought one after work. I usually wear a stylized goddess figure with a spiral over the womb. It's such a unique piece that I made myself that most people don't understand what it is.

Mostly, I feel sorry for people like that. They're missing out on getting to know some really great people. As well as an opportunity to learn new things & expand their horizons.

[AngelinBlack]

I wear a pentacle all the time. I have a long chain though, and mostly keep it beneath my shirt while in school. Out of school..its always out and shining. But lately I havn't. Another of my friend, who is like me, wears it as a choker. Its really pretty. She made it herself. And our English teacher at the time demanded it be removed or at least tucked beneath her shirt. And well ya see..its a choker..so she made a remark of "what? do you want me to tuck my entire head in my shirt?" or something like that and started laughing at him because well..they can't do that in Public schools...one of the good things about them...:cool: ...keyword -one-...:D

I dont wear it at my Boyfriends house though. If I do its beneath my shirt. His house has mixed religon..but still....scares me crapless to think of what they'll think of me sometimes if they see it..:(

Hottopic is a cool store!! although some of the kids that walk in their scare me..specially the skeleton skinny ones with pale faces, peircings galore, and emotionless features.. :blushake:

It's great some of you are not afraid to show your beliefs...!

BB
Angel

[talamh]

Hey. AngelinBlack - You sould like such a good, strong, caring person. Have you asked your friend if she is willing to read one of your books on Wicca? i have found this a good way to deal with people who have a warped view of Wicca. i say i will read a book on their spirituality if they will read a book on mine.

If they are really sincere about their concern, they will take the time to read it and then there is a solid body of knowledge to discuss. Right now, it sounds as though your friend is judging Wicca by what people who are hostile to the spirituality say it's about... and we all know how twisted and just plain incorrect that can be.

And if a friend isn't willing to read a book, then whenever the subject comes up, you can always say.. well, unless you're going to read a book there's no point in talking about it.

i also find that in reading the book they recommend, i learn more about their religion and am better able to discuss it and how it differs from my path.

it also diffuses the situation, since it takes a certain amount of time to read a book.

Just a suggestion that might help... although it sounds like you are doing just fine being the strong, loving, caring , sensible person that you are. bb talamh

[AngelinBlack]

Well..she has listened to me talk about it. But hasn't really said she would read something on it. I think if her parents found her with such a book..she would get into trouble..and I wouldnt want her getting into trouble.

Lately, today, she actually gave me one of her books. I was thinking about lending her one of my own. The book she gave me was something along the lines of Knowledge: "something here that i cant remember" for eternal life"....

She wants to study the book with me..a Bible study..and I feel bad because I totally avoided her today to NOT do this study. I even sat through a boring Pep Rally for my schools homcoming..but i am GOING to email her a apologie..and I guess I have to be truthful about it huh? Oh well..doing the right thing is always a good thing..

thanks for the tip..maybe I will give her one of my books...:cool:
BB
Angel

[Shy Hawk]

The best things in life are worth fighting for...that's what they say. I guess if you want to save this friendship, you got fight for it.
Say you'll read her book on one condition. That she reads one of yours. Then give her the most positive, fluffy, politically correct book on Wicca you can find (not that I'm using fluffy in a negative way here)....just so she can remove her "evil" association with Paganism.
Then say if she wishes to discuss her religion with you, that you will only if she is willing to discuss your religion aswell.
If not, tell her she can keep her bible study.

Sometimes ya gotta be firm. :cool: