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View Full Version : Observing..... Karma? Or just psychological dependency?



Tabbykitty
February 23rd, 2005, 01:38 AM
Hi Everyone,


I ran through a few posts and noticed the views and debates on karma. I guess not everyone here believes in karma, and in a way, I sometimes wonder if there is indeed such a thing. However, events that I was witness to in the last few months have tipped a few more beans on the side of "there is this thing called karma".

Im not looking to impose a viewpoint on anyone. I just want to share what i have seen so that those who are still wondering can come to some kinda tentative conclusion.

For the longest time, I have never wanted to believe in this thing called karma because it felt like some kinda dogmatic chain. This was particularly hard cos I am born and currently live in the Far East. Almost everyone I knew believed in karma on some level. Even if they were from a monotheistic religion, they STILL tended to talk about retribution in terms of karma.

My own fear of karma was that it limited my free will. Was I really the product of all my other lifetimes? Could I not change the karmic pattern and become whoever I wanted to be?

Well, here's an interesting case of two young men. N and S, whom I've had the opportunity to get to know first hand.

Some of you might remember N from:
Irritated Magus Casts Spell For Wannabe (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=79929)
Giving Up Magick Forever (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=85307)


I meet weekly with a group of people who range from the psychically gifted to practicioners of the esoteric arts. Most of us younger ones attend the same meditation classes and go to the same workshops and seminars.

The advantage of being in a group full of psychics and other mystic types is that in the event of a mystical or spiritual question, we can all put our heads together for an answer.

This was what happened with N and his friend S.

See, N attended the same meditation class with us and in the process, we all found that we have spent several lifetimes together with the same group of people. Each of us taking different roles in each incarnation. (This is to cut a very very long story of self discovery short) We were even able to pinpoint the roles we played and even the karmic links and patterns that we tended to fall into.

N found out that he always had a love-hate, conflict-based relationship with S. And in almost every lifetime, with the exception of the present lifetime, they were always of the opposite gender to each other. (Well, we had A LOT of help digging this fact up)

Anyways, the end result of their relationship was that S would usually backstab N or win out over him in some area of their lives. AND.... here's the kicker that really makes the situation ironic: While N is always trying to get power through magic or mystical means and always failing because of inaptitude, S on the other hand would always almost be highly gifted in this field. BUT, S would in the end be done in by his/her magic and manipulative ways.

In this lifetime, S is incredibly gifted both in terms of psychic development as well as mystical arts. He is the only one I know of who managed to open his third eye on his own through experimentation.... but at a terrible terrible cost.

When N got his magical gift from Pete and the others, they cautioned him never to mention what they did for him to S, because S would become horribly jealous and want what N has or maybe even try to steal it from him. (Well, when N still had that magical gift, he was able to somewhat do remote viewing without any pain or discomfort. This was not so for S who was always feeling pain whenever he used any psychic ability.)

In the last few months, S tried to approach Pete the magus to teach him some magick stuff. At one point, Pete got so annoyed, he gave S a tongue lashing that would make most people cringe. The problem with S was that he wanted power without going through long periods of study and research and without being responsible for his actions. Moreover, against Pete's prior advice on exercising common sense, S had gone and cultivated "negative energy" in his own body, resulting in huge boils that no doctor could figure out where they came from.

We knew the cause for the boils because two student healers who tried to heal S were actually found their hands turning cold from the negative energy that leaked into their energetic fields!

Well, after that terrible tongue lashing, S left the group. Personally I think it was all for the best cos this guy just sat quietly around picking up whatever knowledge of rituals, spells and ceremonies that were mentioned. Like N, he wasn't one of those types who reads a lot, so he had to rely on leeching knowledge from others.

Anyway, N tried to persuade S from his destructive practices and consequently spent a lot of time with him. Well, this would seem like a very very nice thing that N is doing, except for the fact that BOTH young men are like blind men leading each other. S doesnt really do research and just practices whatever strange thing he hears about and N is highly guilible and cant tell if what S is doing is safe and sane or not.

Because of the dangerous practices S tends to indulge in, N's friends persuaded N to just disassociate himself from S and spend more time with them and the group. Well, N TRIED to do just that, but he always found himself going back to S for the strangest of reasons. It got to the point where N was always running to S when the guy got into trouble or whinned to N that he was lonely.

I was really really really curious as to N's behaviour. Although both men are not gay, they acted like a couple. With S was like this whiny girlfiend and N was well, the guy who couldnt see that his "girlfriend" was taking up every bit of spare time that he had.

I decided to take the direct approach and ask N about his behaviour. I pointed out to him that although S was his friend, there were other guys in the group who had much much more in common with N than S had. I asked him why he felt this urge to run to S whenever the guy whinned like a girl.

Well, his answer to me, not surprisingly, was, "I DONT KNOW!"

From my talks with N I found out that he was aware of the fact that S will likely backstab him if he stood in the way of S's interest. Being the selfish, self-centred guy that he was, I would expect N to either avoid S or stab him right back, but ironically..... N just shrugged his shoulders and he still continues to spend a lot of time with S.

Well, Ive decided that on the day S DOES backstab N or when N gets into deep doo doo because of S, I'll take my digicam and record S's reaction. (He might even blame N for his troubles) THen, I am going to show it to N. If N STILL continues to spend loads of time with S, entertaining his every whim, I'm gonna just say one thing....

"It's KARMA man... pure KARMA."

I think thats the only explanation for this strange behaviour.

I know this is a very very long post, but I'd like to hear what you all think about this stange case. Are N and S both trapped in some kinda karmic cycle? Or are they acting out some weird psychological dependency thingy.

Rick
February 23rd, 2005, 02:58 PM
My personal take of karma is that it's comes across sorta like those stories about the boogeyman that parents tell their kids to scare 'em into behaving...

On a sidenote: Tabbykitty, I really enjoy the stories you share about you, N, S, Pete the Mage & company. Please share more.

Tabbykitty
February 23rd, 2005, 08:54 PM
Hi Rick,

thanks fur ya comment. Im glad ya like these stories, sometimes I wonder if anyone actually reads them. I was hoping to get people to post their viewpoints cos ever since I joined this group, life has been...... strange.... to say the least......

However, being with the group is great, its like Im learning something new every time i meet these guys. Sometimes I wonder if other people elsewhere in the world have also encountered these strange things and I really would like to hear about them. :)

Btw... I did a past life reading for N before and it can be seen here in
Past life experiences (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=1643767#post1643767)

Rick
February 24th, 2005, 02:08 AM
OOOOH! A new installment! *rushes off to make popcorn & get comfy*

Thanks, TK!

Tabbykitty
February 24th, 2005, 02:37 AM
Haha... you know, our lives are starting to sound like a movie :D :LoL:
btw...I also posted one in the reiki forum......btw... ya do reiki rite?

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=86399

Rick
February 24th, 2005, 10:23 AM
I have only recently (um, within the last month, I think) done Reiki I, and will do the others as my instructor allows (I wanted the whole magilla in one weekend, but she said no... she's sorta traditional that way :hehehehe: ). However, I've been doing healing by funneling the energies through crystals for a long time, as well as using runic formulas.

agoodfriend
February 24th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Hello TabbyKitty,
I'am new member here(I've already introduced my self in the introduction page...Hello From India Thread).....I must say your account really Fascnates me.I mean if I would have heard it some time ago or read it some where else I would not have beleived it,.....BUT after comming to this forum I must your story must be true.Cool....And as for karma....well...I may not be as matured as you are as you all are much much matured and deep and understanding in this art after lots of practice & hardwork ..GOD BLESS ......welll........according to me KARMA definately as a role to play.i mean simply If We Do Good Always....Good Will Happen To Us & vice Versa.But there are situations when one gets things because of Pure Luck like lottery....Or when currupt politicians flourish....that well...I beleive is because of Your Past Karmas!!Well...Thats Simple ...Infact maybe if I share my story may be you would be able to help/advice me & I would be Grateful from the bottom of my heart if you would :) :).
KaRMA WHEN i SAY HAS A ROLE TO PLAY means not only of this life but i do now after my life experiences of some past lives too,I'am not christian nor a Wicca......but I Sikh.Though I RESPECT all religion as I beleive GOD IS ONE.Anyway now comming to Karma....Well...my story goes like this....When in School I used to study a lot ...was a top student....had the AMBITION & THE WILL...but after i crossed 18 years of age & entered Collegge I suddenly lost the eage to study...I just studied & comnpleted my Bachelors Degree wioth top good marks because I had too & otherwise I would not have got any job at all.But I've never been able to get my dream job....Then I don;t know what happened I went for Masters degree BUT I I don't know since past 3-4 years I tend to start many projects but haven't completed any!!!!!!!I have evev lost the WILL....But I still crib when my friends get that good job....I cry...I feel frustarated as I feel I more intelligent than them but they still get those good jobs....and I get those rejections.....I don't know....Infaxct I'never been able to get those things I wanted...I mean WHENEVER SOMETHING good I feel is going to happen....For Example a good Job Which wil bring me out of this depression problem...that thing slips away....I've been rejected so many times that now I've become Pessimistic!!!!!i meaniN love too...I've NEVER EVER had a girl friewnd....Never Gone On Date...i dion't know....I've try to do good always I beleive....I'always try to do to good alwayuyus so that I can Please GOD & be in HIS good books....Its a Obsission ....But Still I won't get that thing!!Infact sometime I feel to kill myself....But that won't be good I know........alas Inall these past years I've FELT A STRAGE Thing...feeling I don't Know As If SOMEBODY/SOMETHING Delibrately is not letting me get those things I want....like a Good Job,A good girlfriend........Maybe I'am not deserving...I don'tknow.But all in the end I come back to beleive may be its My Larma.....My fault.......Soory I wrote so long....but all this made my eyes feel moist agauin.....sometimes I feel so frustarated nobody to understand......Anyway Soory If I have bored you.....well..I just wanted to share something......May be you could advice!!:) :)A Past Life Reading....or something to solve my problem.....anyway GOD BLESS YOU!!:) :)Good Luck & Have a Nice day!!:) :)

Maverynthia
February 24th, 2005, 10:43 PM
I don't really believe in Karma, because based on the story, it sound to me like N and S need to break free of this time loop. I feel that we are free to choose the path we want for ourselves, it sounds like what's going on...is going on because it a familiar situation and that both parties can "deal" with it, because it's happened before. I think what NEEDS to happen is for both of them to change and evolve. Looking at it from the souls standpoint, it looks like they are gods trying to outwit each other in the form of the mortal, however they forget that they are limited by things such as nervous system, and culture/behavior.

If calling this karma, then karma is a bad thing that needs to be vanquished/broken and rebelled against in order to become a better soul.

Tabbykitty
February 24th, 2005, 11:59 PM
actually..... Maverynthia, according to some sources, it is possible to break karmic cycles.... Karma in the traditional sense need not be 100% bad and restricts free will ... as agoodfriend has said...... doing things that promote good karma can result in good karma in ur next life......

Karma only becomes bad when we cant recognise the karmic cycle like N and S and dont want to break out of it. I guess if they can see the co-dependent relationship, they can end this neverending loop.

Tabbykitty
February 25th, 2005, 12:03 AM
Hi agoodfriend,

Im having a little trouble reading ur post cos all the words are mashed into one big paragraph. Maybe it might help if you separated it out into different paragraphs and er..... structure your post a little bit more.

agoodfriend
February 25th, 2005, 02:37 AM
Hello TabbyKitty,
Thanks for trying to read my post...SORRY..it was in one para...I 'am trying to break that Same POST in different parras so that it can be easy to read.I hope Now you will be able to read & repply!!Thanks Again & GOD BLESS!!
""""""""""""""""""""""I'am new member here(I've already introduced my self in the introduction page...Hello From India Thread).....I must say your account really Fascnates me.I mean if I would have heard it some time ago or read it some where else I would not have beleived it,.....BUT after comming to this forum I must your story must be true.Cool....And as for Karma....

Well...I may not be as matured as you are as you all are much much matured and deep and understanding in this art after lots of practice & hardwork ..GOD BLESS For You all Perseverance & search for truth.... ......welll........according to me KARMA definately as a role to play.i mean simply If We Do Good Always....Good Will Happen To Us & vice Versa.But there are situations when one gets things because of Pure Luck like lottery....Or when currupt politicians flourish....that well...I beleive is because of Your Past Karmas!!

Well...Thats Simple ...Infact maybe if I share my story may be you would be able to help/advice me & I would be Grateful from the bottom of my heart if you would .

KaRMA WHEN i SAY HAS A ROLE TO PLAY means not only of this life but i do now after my life experiences of some past lives too,I'am not christian nor a Wicca......but I Sikh.Though I RESPECT all religion as I beleive GOD IS ONE.

Anyway now comming to Karma....Well...my story goes like this....When in School I used to study a lot ...was a top student....had the AMBITION & THE WILL...but after i crossed 18 years of age & entered Collegge I suddenly lost the eage to study...I just studied & comnpleted my Bachelors Degree wioth top good marks because I had too & otherwise I would not have got any job at all.

But I've never been able to get my dream job....Then I don;t know what happened I went for Masters degree BUT I I don't know since past 3-4 years I tend to start many projects but haven't completed any!!!!!!!I have evev lost the WILL....But I still crib when my friends get that good job....I cry...I feel frustarated as I feel I more intelligent than them but they still get those good jobs....and I get those rejections.....I don't know....

Infaxct I'never been able to get those things I wanted...I mean WHENEVER SOMETHING good I feel is going to happen....For Example a good Job Which wil bring me out of this depression problem...that thing slips away....I've been rejected so many times that now I've become Pessimistic!!!!!i meaniN love too...I've NEVER EVER had a girl friewnd....Never Gone On Date...i dion't know....I've try to do good always I beleive....I'always try to do to good alwayuyus so that I can Please GOD & be in HIS good books....Its a Obsission ....But Still I won't get that thing!!Infact sometime I feel to kill myself....But that won't be good I know........alas Inall these past years I've FELT A STRAGE Thing...feeling I don't Know As If SOMEBODY/SOMETHING Delibrately is not letting me get those things I want....like a Good Job,A good girlfriend........Maybe I'am not deserving...I don'tknow.

But all in the end I come back to beleive may be its My Larma.....My fault.......Soory I wrote so long....but all this made my eyes feel moist agauin.....sometimes I feel so frustarated nobody to understand......Anyway Soory If I have bored you.....well..I just wanted to share something......May be you could advice!! A Past Life Reading....or something to solve my problem.....anyway GOD BLESS YOU!! Good Luck & Have a Nice day!!"""""""""""

Tabbykitty
February 25th, 2005, 02:48 AM
Hi agoodfriend,

I jus read your post and I'd like to ask you just a few questions:

1. Are you facing any financial debt?
2. Are you making okay salary whereby you can eat, pay your bills, go out for movies and parties, have the occasional vacation without feeling the pinch?
3. Do you have friends you are close to?
4. Are you having problems with family or friends?
5. Why d ya feel you need to have a girlfriend?
6. You are Sikh, what does your religion and faith and your god mean to you personally?

I know this seems rather ..... odd the questions I am asking, but if you feel up to answering them. Well, I got an idea for ya out of ur problems.

oh btw... leave a space in between paragraphs. thanks.

agoodfriend
February 25th, 2005, 03:38 AM
Hi TabbyKitty,
Thankks for reading my post...I will answer your questions...and PM to you...wll..answer are rather a little personal so will PM you the Answers :) :)
Thanks Again & GOD BLESS!!
With Best Regards,
agoodfriend

Sage Rainsong
February 25th, 2005, 09:55 AM
I don't truck with karma. I certainly don't believe in the threefold law. To me it takes resposibility away from the practioner. It seems based on a rewards and punishment system. Sort of like if you are bad you will go to hell. I personally do what I feel in my heart is the right thing, because its the right thing to do, and i throw away everyone elses rules. For the record tabby I also enjoy your stories.

agoodfriend
February 26th, 2005, 08:32 AM
Hi agoodfriend,

I jus read your post and I'd like to ask you just a few questions:

1. Are you facing any financial debt?
2. Are you making okay salary whereby you can eat, pay your bills, go out for movies and parties, have the occasional vacation without feeling the pinch?
3. Do you have friends you are close to?
4. Are you having problems with family or friends?
5. Why d ya feel you need to have a girlfriend?
6. You are Sikh, what does your religion and faith and your god mean to you personally?

I know this seems rather ..... odd the questions I am asking, but if you feel up to answering them. Well, I got an idea for ya out of ur problems.

oh btw... leave a space in between paragraphs. thanks.


Hello Tabby...I've PM youed the message as you wanted.Please read it & do reply.Please You can PM me the Reply.Thanks In Advance & GOD BLESS !!

agoodfriend
February 26th, 2005, 08:33 AM
Hello Tabby...I've PM youed the message as you wanted.Please read it & do reply.Please You can PM me the Reply.Thanks In Advance & GOD BLESS !!

Tabbykitty
February 27th, 2005, 11:11 PM
I don't truck with karma. I certainly don't believe in the threefold law. To me it takes resposibility away from the practioner. It seems based on a rewards and punishment system. Sort of like if you are bad you will go to hell. I personally do what I feel in my heart is the right thing, because its the right thing to do, and i throw away everyone elses rules. For the record tabby I also enjoy your stories.

Hi Sage rainsong,

glad ya like the stories. :)

Personally I dont think that karma takes away responsiblity. Cos it is possible to break karmic patterns and rise above them if only we choose to. :) But thats just my opinion. :)

Tabbykitty

Maverynthia
February 27th, 2005, 11:15 PM
Perhaps it's better to say Karma is like the highway, if you don't know where to go in your life you can always follow the highway...but if you want to break away from it you can find some footpaths and forge your own trail.

Sage Rainsong
February 28th, 2005, 08:46 AM
Hi Sage rainsong,

glad ya like the stories.

Personally I dont think that karma takes away responsiblity. Cos it is possible to break karmic patterns and rise above them if only we choose to. But thats just my opinion.


Well I guess i depends on how you look at karma. I see your point, I suppose its not limiting your actions if you choose to break out of bad habits or if you take to simply mean you reap what you sew; but I have met many people who see karma as some nebulous law thats hands out rewards and punishments. They will only not do a petty(not for serious things) curse or some other negative thing, only because they are afraid that the universe will punish them. Not because its the right thing to do or what it would cultivate within themselves. Again I guess it all depends on how you look at it.

Tabbykitty
February 28th, 2005, 09:47 AM
To: Sage Rainsong
Hmmmm yeah... quite a lot of people have pointed out before that there are individuals who will use karma as an excuse for their extreme actions. I guess they forget all about the human ability to learn and overcome and they also forget about the idea of free will..... heh

actually from what I understand of karma from my instructor and other speakers that pop into town occasionally, defining karma as rewards and punishment isnt quite accurate. Its more like cause and effect. Because you did something in a certain life, it can result in a cycle of actions repeated in many lifetimes until the soul is able to understand and learn what it can from this cycle and move on to the next lesson or next level of evolution.

Or because you did something for or two someone, or someone did something for or to you, that person joins or becomes entangled in your web of karmic connections. Some connections, like bonds of relationship based on love arent half bad...:D

which reminds me of a story about a rather interesting about a karmic cycle which I'll post up soon :D