Dragon-Wicca?

[ariansdreams]

Hello All :)

I have a question for those who might be familiar with this kind of thing. I have a friend who identifies himself as Wiccan, who does not seem to call upon traditional interpretations of "Goddess" and "God" in his faith, but instead seems to worship dragons of some sort. He also has stated that he believes that he was a dragon-shaman type thing in a past life. I don't have a problem with his beliefs at all, even if it seems a bit far-fetched to me, I fully support his right to believe what he wants to. I was just wondering if this interpretation of Wicca was common, and if anyone could explain the relationship between dragons and Wicca to me, and how that faith-base works. I just want to be able to understand my friend more, this is one of those annoying cases where we're both pagan, but don't really identify with one another very well in terms of religion. I'd like to change this.

Pax,
Arian:)

[Druchii]

Hello All :)

I have a question for those who might be familiar with this kind of thing. I have a friend who identifies himself as wiccan, who does not seem to call upon traditional interpretations of "Goddess" and "God" in his faith, but instead seems to worship dragons of some sort. He also has stated that he believes that he was a dragon-shaman type thing in a past life. I don't have a problem with his beliefs at all, even if it seems a bit far-fetched to me, I fully support his right to believe what he wants to. I was just wondering if this interpretation of wicca was common, and if anyone could explain the relationship between dragons and wicca to me, and how that faith-base works. I just want to be able to understand my friend more, this is one of those annoying cases where we're both pagan, but don't really identify with one another very well in terms of religion. I'd like to change this.

Pax,
Arian:)

I am finding that it is not too common, but there are a few on here that adhere to beliefs not unlike that of your friend's. I understand that the majority of them believe in them on an astral level as opposed to a real creature of flesh and blood.
In my honest opinion, I think that the majority of connection stems between the mystical connatatives of dragons and some aspects of witchcraft.

[Tabbykitty]

Well there are some who believe that they originally came from another planet or world where dragons are common, but were reincarnated on earth as humans. So perhaps that is where the dragons come from.

While I don't dismiss that possiblity, for indeed, many things beyond human understanding are possible, but I DO feel a rising urge to rant about the majority of people who tell me strange stuff like that and who, when asked about their beliefs, don't really bother to do a bit of research, self-searching and mystical exploration of said claims/beliefs. AND who cant really describe to me what having that belief means to them living in this present world on a day-by-day basis. :P

Well, I guess I better stop before I step on toes.:P

Me two cents.

[ariansdreams]

Tabbykitty, I know what you mean. I guess that part of my problem with my friend is that his belief system feels so incredibly inplausible to me that I shy away from asking him much about it because I'm afraid I'll say something characteristically Arian-like (cynical) and make him upset. I think this is why I'd rather hear it from a third party whom I am much less likely to want to argue with. That being said, I do respect his right to believe what he wants. I just don't really understand it or take it seriously at this point.

Pax,
Arian

[mothwench]

i have no problems with worship of dragons. i myself hold mythical creatures in great regard and often connect with them. (land-wights, huldvolk, and the gang. :) )

i'm puzzled about this though:
dragon-shaman type thing
:wtf: wazzat?

[ariansdreams]

I'm not really certain. A dragon who was also a shaman? A shaman who could transform into a dragon? Some kind of mutation of the two? This is coming from his description of himself. :)

Pax,
Arian

[mothwench]

oh, right. hmmm. ....???... there are communities like those who call themselves otherkin where he would be quite welcome.

[Tabbykitty]

Perhaps ya can get him to do some research on Earth-based cultures who DO adore or worship or identify strongly with dragon types. Maybe he will find one of them that fits his past life memory. If he does stumble onto that, then perhaps he can try to learn the cultural symbolism and norms so that his belief will make sense to him.

[Tabbykitty]

oh, right. hmmm. ....???... there are communities like those who call themselves otherkin where he would be quite welcome.

oh mannnnnnnn yes he would..... problem with a lot of otherkin is that very very few of them bother to go do that research/self-discovery thing that would allow them to make sense of feeling different from the rest of us humans.....:P

Im kinda thinking from a spiritual point of view he might be better off if he tried to find out more about this dragon-shaman thing himself without being biased by tons of opinions from everyone else and feeling the need to conform to their views.

[Saggitario]

perhaps by dragon shaman, he means that he was a shaman who worked with dragons, much like he wants to do now...

I knew someone who was into 'dragon magic', yet could not tell me anything about it. Some sort of convenient secrecy or something...

[Luciferish]

Dragon Craft is not really "Wicca" but often they get coupled together. Its a form that would remind you of shamanism. The practitioner doesn't necessarily worship a Dragon/Drake or such, but they partner with it.. As they say "Fly With the Dragons", it not all that uncommon to see in traditions like 1734 and such. I know of a few groups (Clans) that practice this kind of thing with heavy celtic overtones, but to call them Wiccan would be out of bounds. They are most certainly witches, but they don't see things like the Rede and Gardner of any import, they are very "old school" if you will. Not much has been published about these systems and I hope they never will be, or they may suffer the same loss of potency as many of the Faery concepts have.

[ariansdreams]

Luciferish,
Thank you for your reply. It is my understanding at this point that it is a serious path of paganism...his reluctance to talk much about it makes much more sense now. Thank you all for your responses!

Pax,
Arian

[Silenus]

From my understanding of what was originally stated, it comes essentially down to this. Wicca is in it's essence another word for magical energy, and dragons from eastern philosophys and religions is a symbolic way of representing ley lines (or lines of magical energy that run through the earth). A dragon is thus wicca.
For the worshipping of dragons it gets more complex, dragons and serpents are essentially the same thing. However they all fall to one creature in the long run (from my research)...Tiamat. Her male counterpart is Baphomet. A ying to a yang. Bahamut is kind of a time worn modification of Baphomet, like wyrm and worm. Both essentially mean serpent. Tiamat has shown up in the bible as a serpent that ate someone, to possibly the hydra in the legend of Hercules, to the Linnorm of Norse religion.
Tiamat is above all else the goddess of life for babylonian and sumerians, she also was the goddess of sea storms, maelstroms, and hurricanes. This reflection is likely based off of the arid nature of the region and a dependence upon fishing. The sea giveth life, and taketh life.
As time passed she lost that life aspect and all that remained was the death. She became the Chaos Dragon, destroyer of the world.
But when one studies modern chaos, we realize that chaos in religion is a misnomer. Chaos defines life, without change there is stagnation. And stagnation is death. Thus once again, when worshipping dragons we worship in essence the absolute of life.
Thus dragons not only represent the God and Goddess, but the cycle with which they pass through...which to my understanding represents life.

I hope this helps :)

[Malcolm]

Or they could just horde treasure and eat virgin sacrifices...:)

[Marcasite]

my fiance (who has been practising for 10 years or so) is very interested in dragons. I wouldn't say they are the -main- part of his belief system, but he certainly identifies with them on the astral level and is very much into the surrounding lore. I think his 'main' deity is a dragon god. He feels many aspects of dragons within him and has an affinity for fire. I'm not sure I do justice to his beliefs though, but if you have some questions in specific I can ask

[BeigeAllen]

I don't know how serious I would take it if one of my friends told me they were following a path they could barely describe. I can understand the need for secrecy in some traditions, but even the most secretive paths either will not let you know that they exist at all, or will pass along at least a minimal description of what they are about.

Since I usually only hear of this "trad" from folks that play a bit too much D&D (in my less than humble opinion), I decided to do a search on the web for "dragon magick" and "dragon shaman".

Doing a search for "dragon shaman" turned up a lot of RPG, Shonen Jump, and Dragon Ball Z. Nothing other than fiction about dragons and shaman. Didn't think any of them worth the link.
http://www.draconian.com/artwork/anim/grey-dragon-1.gif
Doing a search for "dragon magick" turned up the following sites. I have given my own reviews of them (and I really am trying to be nice). Don't take my word for it, though, feel free to check these links out yourself or even do your own search.

Vox Draconis (http://www.geocities.com/willow_earthdawn/) This site, though still under construction, is the blue ribbon winner of the lot. Whoever this person is, they have taken a lot of dragon lore and connected it together leaving their fellow Dragon Mages to use what they need. There is a lot of great information and well researched articles on this site. Whether you agree with their conclusions or not, its definately worth the read. Cardoza's Dragon Magick and Alchemy (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/dragon9/ALCHEMY001.html) The site claims "Real Dragon Magick is not just using regular magick with Dragon images woven into it or creating fantasies about the Dragon and adding magick to them; it is magick given directly to us by the Dragon when we meet with it in other spaces." The webmaster then goes on to blend Wicca, Native American traditions, alchemy, chara meditations, etc., etc., etc. In other words, everything they read seems to have gotten dumped into this "ancient trad". Lots of interesting artwork and dragon poetry though.
The Red Dragon Society (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/dragon9/REDRAGON.html) Just scroll down and check out the recommended reading. They tell you exactly what they threw in the BeliefOMatic before they hit the Frappe button.
Dragon Magick (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dragon-Magick/) The 43 members of this Yahoo group have been chatting about their brands of Dragon Magick since Apr 24, 2002. This list is for the study and practicing of Dragon Lore and Dragon Magick. It is a list that contains High Magick and knowledge of Dragons. If you believe yourself to be Otherkin, a Dragon, or anything besides a human being that is fine that is your belief. But talk about it isn't tolerated on this group and subject to removal from the group.
Dragon Magick Home Page (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/1911/) This page looks like something one of my children would have made. That's not a bad thing but there is a little of everything there and much of it has nothing to do with dragons or magick. I did like the low carb dragon recipes and the "dragon runes" however, made a great dragon cypher puzzle for my kids using the runes.
http://www.geocities.com/dragonia13/Rune1.gif
Red Dragon Magick Tradition Correspondence Course (http://www.qwerks.com/product/5959.html) The 'Red Dragon Magick Tradition' is a fusion of Celtic and Chinese beliefs/mythology and Magick. It concentrates on boosting Personal Power by training the mind, this Personal Power can then be transferred into Magickal practices. It is a system based on improving self esteem and self worth, and you can download it for $350.00 :lol:

[lightdragon]

Dragon Craft is not really "Wicca" but often they get coupled together. Its a form that would remind you of shamanism. The practitioner doesn't necessarily worship a Dragon/Drake or such, but they partner with it.. As they say "Fly With the Dragons", it not all that uncommon to see in traditions like 1734 and such. I know of a few groups (Clans) that practice this kind of thing with heavy celtic overtones, but to call them Wiccan would be out of bounds. They are most certainly witches, but they don't see things like the Rede and Gardner of any import, they are very "old school" if you will. Not much has been published about these systems and I hope they never will be, or they may suffer the same loss of potency as many of the Faery concepts have.I agree mostly with this statement.
i work with dragons. Basically you treat them with respect,they are patient though and can be forgiving to a high extent IF it is called for.. i don`t worship them though, my current deities are Cernunnos and Brighid. But you can be wiccan and be dragoncraft

[Valnorran]

I'm solitary ecclectic Wiccan with a Celtic flavor. I envision the Lord as a dragon, because I just can't quite bring myself to envision him as a man and because from my earliest memories I have loved dragons. But "Dragon Wicca" is a new one on me.

[Shanti]

Hello All :)

I have a question for those who might be familiar with this kind of thing. I have a friend who identifies himself as Wiccan, who does not seem to call upon traditional interpretations of "Goddess" and "God" in his faith, but instead seems to worship dragons of some sort. He also has stated that he believes that he was a dragon-shaman type thing in a past life. I don't have a problem with his beliefs at all, even if it seems a bit far-fetched to me, I fully support his right to believe what he wants to. I was just wondering if this interpretation of Wicca was common, and if anyone could explain the relationship between dragons and Wicca to me, and how that faith-base works. I just want to be able to understand my friend more, this is one of those annoying cases where we're both pagan, but don't really identify with one another very well in terms of religion. I'd like to change this.

Pax,
Arian:)

I would like to say that I admire your courtesy and respect for your friends beliefs, even with the lack of info you have. To search for understanding instead if passing judgment is a good virtue, I think.

But when it comes to understanding the beliefs of someone...only he can really tell you.
How could anyone know what he feels is his truth besides him?
You cant explain the dragon/shaman thing so theres no way anyone can even begin to 'assume' what his ideals are.

I dont see why you cant objectively learn more from him. If your as courteous talking to him as you are here...I dont think he would think wrongly of your curiosities.

But things he may not want to share, he probably has good reason like... its for him to feel, to know, to believe and not for sharing.

I am glad you have respect for each others beliefs. The beliefs each of us carry, no matter what they are...buy the book or totally different...they are our truths, for us.

I wont even begin to attempt to assume what he may or may not follow/believe. He is truly the best source of his feelings.

He may have some title for what he calls himself but he is the only one who knows all the meanings of that title. A title seldom defines the heart accurately. Its just a tiny help when others are curious and sometimes its not a help at all and is misleading. So toss out the title and learn what he carries in his heart.

Thats my 2 cents. :)

[Vox Draconis]

Vox Draconis (http://www.geocities.com/willow_earthdawn/) This site, though still under construction, is the blue ribbon winner of the lot. Whoever this person is, they have taken a lot of dragon lore and connected it together leaving their fellow Dragon Mages to use what they need. There is a lot of great information and well researched articles on this site. Whether you agree with their conclusions or not, its definately worth the read.

Woopee! :dancy:*points to above quote* That person is me and that's my website. Now I know where all the referal links came from. What do you think of my site so far? Sorry its a bit off topic but I need some feed back. Progress is slow on it I know but juggling the site with studies both magickal and mundane and the job is a bit hard at times.

[Sage Rainsong]

I never heard of dragon wicca per say bu i have heard of wiccans that invoke dragons at the directions. Here is an interesting site that seems to combine rune and dragon magic. http://www.geocities.com/jkarrah/index.html

[lightdragon]

I never heard of dragon wicca per say bu i have heard of wiccans that invoke dragons at the directions. Here is an interesting site that seems to combine rune and dragon magic. http://www.geocities.com/jkarrah/index.html
Looking thru this site. I think this is the best one on dragon magick.

[Elderbush]

I have to admit that my first thought was "you've got to be kidding" but then I thought about it a little more and if his gods are male and female dragon-gods and he otherwise follows something which could be identified as Wicca, it might work. Belief in an afterlife or past life isn't something that is set for Wiccans.

So...the answer is that this could be a variation upon Wicca, but that still doesn't say anything about his silliness quotient.:)

[Vincent Verthaine]

Tiamat(the Babylonian Dragon of Chaos) is important for many discordians,not just because she was an early personification of Eris,but because She is also the name given by astrophysicists to the Star that went Supernova that caused our Solar System to form.Marduk is the name of her white/brown dwarf companion star that caused her to go critical.