calendar calculations

[eneurian]

i am a long time searcher looking at this moment for specific information. any one who can help please?? i feel the need to celebrate the festivals and i believe they are called cross quarters (sahmain,lammas, imbolc,beltane) but am very uncomfortable using arbitrary current calendar dates. i have tried lots of equations to seek the true celebrations. feast days are easy being related to the sun and widely accepted, but lunar calculations are harder to follow because of the secular solar calendar. since the specifically pagan holidays have been celebrated eons before the gregorian calendar or any of its essentially christian predecessors, i am certain our ancestors did not celebrate the first of november as november didn't exist. i have a very clear memory of a past life in which the feasts were begun on the sixth rising of the moon but do not remember how to calculate which moon. can anyone please help with truer calculations?

[Swanspirit]

ancients used......... as you are correct in that they had no calendars as we do today ..... .......... and they used phases of the moon as well........ also celebrations and festivals were very often events that lasted over days as did the meteor showers that marked those time as well...........one technique is to FEEL the event or change or however you experience it ... rather than try and pinpoint it right away ...... now this can take years...... and also depends on your own energy as well.....
Also I dont think that every celebration was carried out at an "exact time or date" at each and every location.......which was why they used LARGE STONE MARKERS.... and landmarks...... to track the return of the moon and stars ..... there are instructions for "building your own stonehenge" on the web..........
I have a small "family circle of standing stones" in my backyard........
Also this is a GREAT SITE http://www.geomancy.org/ and while you are there say hello to my old friend SIG ........
Love and Light
Swannie
Swannie

[Lilu]

On the topic of astrological calculations - I have read that the holidays can be seen to fall when the moon is so far into a certain constellation. For example, Samhain falls on 15degrees into Scorpio - which oddly enough usually falls sometime into the first week or two in November, NOT on October 31st. I believe it's the same for Beltaine, Lughnasadh (Lammas) and Imbolc though I'm not sure of the calculations.

Any astrologers out there have more information on this? I could be wrong too :)

BB
Lilu

[Swanspirit]

astrological placements or calculations.....
that we can "fine tune" because we have ephemerides at our disposal..... anyone can look on an astrological calendar and find them and use where the signs are by degrees as a more accurate pinpointing... once they are aware of this knowledge and it is available to them ......but the ancients used their senses ....... landmarks which were natrual formations ..... stone markers and man made structures .....and the phases of the moon and annual meteor showers..... and other signs .....to know when to celebrate.....
And as they were in different locales they varied by time ..... as did the local gods vary by place .....
The degrees by sign vary depending on which system you are using as well.....
Love and Light
Swannie

[Swanspirit]

about when people celebrated the cross quarters..... here .....
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=7566&highlight=cross+quarters
perhaps that would be helpful to you as well......
Love and Light
Swannie

[Twilight Garden]

Just popping in to say this is a very interesting topic. I'm glad someone asked such a question. This is intriguing to me. Thanks for the site links. :D

[eneurian]

thank you all for your input and information. i knew there had to be something i was missing. if anyonr can provide the specifics for all 4 cros-quarters i will be most appreciative. this is the first i've heard of this astrological reference point.
i'm not too good at the computer and my searches must be lacking.
i am so glad to have found this site. again, thank you all.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Lilu
which oddly enough usually falls sometime into the first week or two in November, NOT on October 31st. I believe it's the same for Beltaine, Lughnasadh (Lammas) and Imbolc though I'm not sure of the calculations.

Kinda odd, yeah. But it should also be noted, at least, as far as I've read, that traditionally Sabbats were celebrated starting the night before the holiday itself - thus celebrations starting Oct 31st that went right through to Nov 1st. Stuff like that. :)

[Myst]

btw, I also know some people go by equinoxes and solstices and celebrate the other Sabbats on the date exactly between each - for instance fall equinox on sept 22nd and winter solstice on 21st, then Samhain would be celebrated exactly between those two (nov. 6th maybe?)

[Swanspirit]

Even entire months were ...... celebration times.....Beltaine in germanic lands was called "walpurgis" and went on for thirteen days....... sometimes staring on the 11th or the 11th being the official day ..... all of the prior celebrations leading up to that day...... as an example........
and we still have the twelve days of christmas as a remaining vestige of how holidays "holy days" were celebrated............
Love and Light
Swannie

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by eneurian
thank you all for your input and information. i knew there had to be something i was missing. if anyonr can provide the specifics for all 4 cros-quarters i will be most appreciative. this is the first i've heard of this astrological reference point.
i'm not too good at the computer and my searches must be lacking.
i am so glad to have found this site. again, thank you all.


I have the astrological correspondences on my group's website:

Days of Power (http://xomusic.audio-stream.net/gwydd/power.html)

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Willow Raven
Kinda odd, yeah. But it should also be noted, at least, as far as I've read, that traditionally Sabbats were celebrated starting the night before the holiday itself - thus celebrations starting Oct 31st that went right through to Nov 1st. Stuff like that. :)

Right ... For example:

Lughnassad Lugh's Wedding Feast 15.00 degrees Leo was August 7th this year ~ the feast night, therefore, began promptly at dusk on the 6th, as that marks the beginning of the next day.

[Kadynas]

Finally something I know! Ok if you know anything about astrology at all, you'll see that there's 3 Grand Crosses. This is just a grouping of certain zodiac signs. For the sabbats, we're only concerned with two of these Crosses.

The first is the Fixed Cross, made up of Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, and Aquarius. As far as I know, all the Sabbats falling under these signs are official at 15 degrees. For example, Samhain is 15 Scorpio. Now you're probably thinking what's with all this degree crap? Well there's 30 degrees to every sign, so fifteen degrees would be halfway though. So check your newspaper, and try to figure the middle date for Scorpio. This one's easy for me, cause it's almost my boyfriend's birthday :) - it usually hovers around the 27th, give or take a day or two. All the major Sabbats are in this Cross...Beltaine is 15 Taurus, because Taurus is opposite of Scorpio, for example.

The other Sabbats are all solstices and equinoxes, which means they're dealing with the Cardinal Cross, the one that starts all the seasons. (Aries, Cancer, Libra, Capricorn) For this cross, it's using the very first degree, which most will say is 00. For example, the Spring Equinox is the very beginning of the sign of Aries, which is somewhere around the 20th of march. Mabon, the Autumn Equinox, is 00 Libra. The Two Solstices are at 00 Cancer, and 00 Capricorn.

Hope that helps! Thanks for letting me ramble...drop me a pm if you ever have any astrology questions.

[Swanspirit]

Another Astrologer!!!
There is an astrology section here that has a great deal of information........ and one of the mods is a sidereal astrologer...... so the Fixed Crosses wouldnt fit into that system ..... but it is always nice to meet someone that speaks astrologese ............
I have been an astrologer for many years...... and I moderate an astrology column THE NIGHT SKY ( somewhat neglected at the moment ) on another forum ..... and have hosted the astrology chat at About.com on Tuesday nights for a couple of years now........ under the adept administtation of Tony DePena ...... who is an incredible astrologer in his own right ........
and another astrologer here IOLO .. ( well he drops by from time to time) has walked talked and studied and played music with the greats ...... DAne Rhudyar and Isobel Hickey ........
So Well and Merrily Met
Swannie