Pagan Representation

[Aelfoak]

Simple straight forward question.

As a Pagan would you support a representative independant or body at government level to support your Pagan beliefs and interests.

Edited to be more clear:

I only posted this to get a general view from everyone on what they thought of the idea. I also totally agree with many people when they say that Paganism is such a broad religion with so many different paths and ideals, including myself which i have my own personal spiritual way of following my Pagan beliefs, but "i probably think" we all follow a basic fundamental Pagan principle whatever "personal" path we have and that is to respect and worship our natural world and to celebrate the seasons that come and go.

There are many countries throughout the world where different religions are represented within local councils and governments, as are many in the UK. I know a single representative or party may not be able to represent everyones "personal" spiritual Pagan way of life and our own set values, but would it be a good idea if Paganism was represented as a whole on our "basic" fundamental principles i.e. our right to openly gather and worship on our set seasonal holidays such as Beltaine, Samhain etc or on any day of the year without being ridiculed for it in the media and being accused of carrying out occult practices by the other mainstream religions, as i know a Druid group here in Birmingham, UK have been accused of. Here in the UK, and probably in US, religious buildings are being constructed for Hindu, Sikh, Muslim and Christian communities, with planning permission being readily approved by local councils for them to go and worship at, i feel that if a Pagan communtiy applied to have a Pagan temple or an outdoor worshipping site constructed then i know that the authorities would probably turn their noses up at it and fail the application at the first instance, this i feel is another little reason for the idea of a representative for him/her or them to fight for our basic needs.

Sorry for going on a bit but this is a subject that i have been feeling and thinking about for a while now, its only my love for being a Pagan.

BB

[semi]

Yes.

[farm girl]

I would IF....

The person was a true representive of the Pagan path. For instance stressing, not all Pagans are just like him/her. I would want it clear that we have many different paths and not all Pagans should be judged on the actions of one.

[Boogins]

Not unless there was also one for the Muslims, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, etc., etc..

[Calen]

Certainly!

Actually, I agree with SoulHealer. I'd rather have just some random person who wanted to be fair to all religions than one person to champion my cause, as it were.

[SoulHealer]

In theory maybe...but in practise it would never work. I would rather see someone of any faith who was capable of being fair to all faiths

[Faeawyn]

I'm more concerned with their ability to make decisions based on whats best for us as a country, rather than us as Pagans.

[xarimae]

I think I would support one, just to have other citizens' beliefs heard in the government besides christians. They kind of have a grip on everything and I think it would benefit our country to have people in the government who have different religious beliefs, and therefore would make the government more open to alternative types of beliefs.

[IvyWitch]

Why do we need religious representation in the government? personally, I'm for getting government to stop putting thier collective noses in religious business.

[MoonDragn]

I rather see a separation of Church and State. Someone who is open minded about all religions would be the best candidate.

[bshore]

I don't see why this would be necessary, since the government isn't supposed to have anything to do with religion. If there were lobbyists for each religion, you could pretty much throw the whole separation of church and state out the window. Besides, it'd be pretty hard to find someone to represent every Pagan faith in America. How would we pick a representative? I'd hate to see Pagans running against eachother in some kind of election. Same with Christians and Hindus, and any other religion.

[IvyWitch]

I don't see why this would be necessary, since the government isn't supposed to have anything to do with religion. If there were lobbyists for each religion, you could pretty much throw the whole separation of church and state out the window. Besides, it'd be pretty hard to find someone to represent every Pagan faith in America. How would we pick a representative? I'd hate to see Pagans running against eachother in some kind of election. Same with Christians and Hindus, and any other religion.
I agree. Something like this, no matter how well intentioned would end up doing more harm than any good it wanted to.

[sari0009]

Why do we need religious representation in the government? personally, I'm for getting government to stop putting thier collective noses in religious business.

Yes, but the ability, nature, manner, and purpose of such a representation would have to fit and would probably best fit in as part of an interfaith group representing numerous types of Pagans and others (including Christians) who agree on some common grounds, which would have to be named.

[IvyWitch]

Yes, but the ability, nature, manner, and purpose of such a representation would have to fit and would probably best fit in as part of an interfaith group representing numerous types of Pagans and others (including Christians) who agree on some common grounds, which would have to be named.
Yeah, but what purpose would it serve?

[arctic splash]

No... besides, how could anyone ever represent me except me?

[xarimae]

I wish the government would keep beliefs out, but at the moment, that seems to be all they want to add in!

[Xentor]

Not unless there was also one for the Muslims, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, etc., etc..

In the Netherlands we actually do have political parties to represent faiths. Catholics and protestants have long been represented, with the Christian Democrats being the largest party for a long long time, and next elections we are going to be seeing Muslim parties as well.

So, yes.

[Illuminatus]

Yes. Discordians like it when things get interesting, and this makes things very interesting. With the construction of artifical unnecessecary order, comes the joy of smashing it down back into disorder. The hard part is waiting around until the order is JUST RIGHT for ruining. Hell I've been waiting here at MW for almost 4 years, eventually I got bored and went to look for something else to mess with.

[Catiana]

I agree.

[WandererInGray]

*shakes head* I wouldn't vote for anyone solely on their religious affiliation. (we ask this question and yet we give Christians crap for it :eyebrow: ) It would be a matter of what the candidate was like on social/economical issues

[mol]

No. Beliefs and government should not meet. We need to work towards getting them seperated not bringing more religion to government.

[IvyWitch]

I'm not trying to insult anyone's political beliefs, but I am surprised that so many people said yes when I have seen and heard so many Pagans complaining about Christians getting thier way with government and the issue of seperation of church and state. Wouldn't having religious representation, even if it was for every religion imaginable, work against that?

[Saggitario]

No.
First of all; religion needs to be taken out of politics. This would just add more.
Second, I dont think there is any one person who can represent the whole Pagan community with much accuracy. Paganism is so broad, with so many different opposing views that it would be redundant to try to put a "Pagan Representative" in office. That person might be representing my beleifs, but they might not be representing yours.....or yours, or yours, ect.

[AmericanMe]

Holy crap, this would mean that people in the Pagan community would actually have to get organized and accept leadership from people who don't agree at least 90% with themselves! Can such a thing happen?![saracsm]

[Khepri]

No. I want to vote on policies, not religious affiliation.
I do agree to some extent that the Christian branch has too much sway over governmental decisions. However, the answer is not to make sure all faiths are represented. After all, that would just result in a conflict of interests, when (for example) the Christian church wants a law to go one way, but to do so would compromise Muslim principles.
Politics should be completely uninfluenced (or as close as is possible) by religious beliefs and persuasion.
And even if it were practical to represent all faiths, there's no way one person could represent the entirety of the pagan community - even if there were an entire council of pagans, there'd be no way to know if all branches of the faith are accounted for.

So yeah, big fat no.

[ibonewits]

Simple straight forward question.

As a Pagan would you support a representative independant or body at government level to support your Pagan beliefs and interests.Actually, this isn't a simple or straightforward question, as can be seen by the wide variety of responses to different assumed meanings.

Aelfoak, could you post exactly what you had in mind to ask us about? A person to rep all Pagans? A governmental body? A national lobbying group for Pagans? A United Religions of America idea? One or more public Pagans elected to office?

What government and what level? USA? UK? Germany? National? Regional? State/Provincial?

Inquiring minds want to know. :)

bright blessings,
Isaac

[Aelfoak]

Actually, this isn't a simple or straightforward question, as can be seen by the wide variety of responses to different assumed meanings.

Aelfoak, could you post exactly what you had in mind to ask us about? A person to rep all Pagans? A governmental body? A national lobbying group for Pagans? A United Religions of America idea? One or more public Pagans elected to office?

What government and what level? USA? UK? Germany? National? Regional? State/Provincial?

Inquiring minds want to know. :)

bright blessings,
Isaac
Well the answer to your question marked questions above is actually in my question.
I only posted this to get a general view from everyone on what they thought of the idea. I also totally agree with many people when they say that Paganism is such a broad religion with so many different paths and ideals, including myself which i have my own personal spiritual way of following my Pagan beliefs, but "i probably think" we all follow a basic fundamental Pagan principle whatever "personal" path we have and that is to respect and worship our natural world and to celebrate the seasons that come and go.

There are many countries throughout the world where different religions are represented within local councils and governments, as are many in the UK. I know a single representative or party may not be able to represent everyones "personal" spiritual Pagan way of life and our own set values, but would it be a good idea if Paganism was represented as a whole on our "basic" fundamental principles i.e. our right to openly gather and worship on our set seasonal holidays such as Beltaine, Samhain etc or on any day of the year without being ridiculed for it in the media and being accused of carrying out occult practices by the other mainstream religions, as i know a Druid group here in Birmingham, UK have been accused of. Here in the UK, and probably in US, religious buildings are being constructed for Hindu, Sikh, Muslim and Christian communities, with planning permission being readily approved by local councils for them to go and worship at, i feel that if a Pagan communtiy applied to have a Pagan temple or an outdoor worshipping site constructed then i know that the authorities would probably turn their noses up at it and fail the application at the first instance, this i feel is another little reason for the idea of a representative for him/her or them to fight for our basic needs.

Sorry for going on a bit but this is a subject that i have been feeling and thinking about for a while now, its only my love for being a Pagan.

BB

[IvyWitch]

Holy crap, this would mean that people in the Pagan community would actually have to get organized and accept leadership from people who don't agree at least 90% with themselves! Can such a thing happen?![saracsm]
No, because it doesn't need to.

[ap Dafydd]

Broadly I'd be a yes on this, basically because the Christians seem to have the ear of politicians so easily and I'd want to have equality for our views.

Conversely I wouldn't want to be the thin end of the wedge for being the still small Pagan voice in the middle of a horde of screaming fundamentalist Christians, Muslims, etc, all demanding that their requirements and prohibitions are enforced on everyone else.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[sari0009]

Yes, but the ability, nature, manner, and purpose of such a representation would have to fit and would probably best fit in as part of an interfaith group representing numerous types of Pagans and others (including Christians) who agree on some common grounds, which would have to be named.

Clarification: The who, what, where, when, why, and how (scope, focus, purpose, clarity) of it all would have to be named.


Yeah, but what purpose would it serve?

Well, these would have to be included in the common grounds that I mentioned that would have to be named/clarified. Here would be some suggestions:

1. To ensure freedom to practice religion (or atheism, for that matter) without persecution/discrimination.

2. To ensure legal protections as much as possible when possible.

3. To educate and inform in an effective clear manner according to purpose of such organization in general and specific to contexts and needs.

http://circlesanctuary.org/liberty/ comes close to the ideal in some ways, just as one quick example.

While Lady Liberty League (above) seems somewhat interfaith, it would be totally awesome if some Christians/others (including some atheists/agnostics, ideally) were part of that -- What I'd be looking for is something very interfaith in nature. Are there any Christians operating "on board" Lady Liberty League? I don't know. I'm not that informed.

What I would really like now is for someone more savvy and knowledgeable (good scope with "depth perception") about interfaith organizations to speak up and tell us "where things are already at" with such organizations. A comparitive chart on these things would be nice -- one that would cover scope, purpose, clarity, maybe some history ...

I'm not very demanding, am I? :)

When I speak of ideals, I have mine in mind for now. It would take groups of people coming together to better figure out what the ideals would be, over all, but I think I have a pretty good idea of such things to some extent.

[demitri]

Yes, I would support, but not based just on paganism alone. It would depend on character and political stances.