Idolism

[Taurwen]

A christian asked me this question, and to be truthful, I have no answer for him.

The Question is: Do pagans believe the statues or sculptures on their altar

are the Deities themselves who have God-like power, or are they just an image of

a God/dess who exists outside the statue? (If that is confusing, think of it this

way: When I take a picture of my dog, that picture is just an image of my

dog. The picture itself isn't my dog: my dog exists outside the picture. Is the same true

with the statues on the altar?)

[Pure Ahimsa]

A lot of Pagans believe that everything has a soul, so thinking an object as a deity is wrong.

[Rowan Darkmoon]

I think that some may believe that the statue/sculpture has god-like powers, and some believe it is just a representation of the god/goddess. I think this is true for every religion though, there are many examples of people who attribute special powers to religious relics or statues of the Virgin Mary. This is from religioustolerance.org....

"Rev. Roger J. Smith, pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Seattle, WA, writes: "Catholics do not worship paintings, or statues. They are just a way of conveying something about God, and are not God themselves. It is quite clear to any thinking person that stone or paint cannot be God, but can only represent, or tell something about, some small aspect of God.....saints are venerated in the sense of having profound respect for them. Icons and images are venerated only in the sense that we venerate, i.e. show respect for, the person depicted." 1

However, some devout believers depart from the church's teaching and attribute miraculous powers to statues and other images of Jesus and the saints. Stories of statues that bleed, weep tears, exude oil, etc. surface from time to time all over the world."

Statues Link (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_stat.htm)

So you get both perspectives here...while this article is in relation to hoaxes, it still follows that some believe that these statues have god-like powers.

[Toby Stimpson]

I like the idea of a Hindu worship (surprise, surprise ;))...we Hindus believe that a statue is not the God it's self...but that the god can fill into the statue...through an awakening ceremony the idol (or Murti, thats the term I like better), the deity is woken up in the statue. The statue itself means nothing...but the God that inhabits it soemtimes means everything...thats why it's illegal to destroy a finished Murti in India. Namaste

Tobias

[Bix]

I always thought that it was just a representation. I wouldn't think something as powerful as a deity would stay in a statue....

Just my thoughts.

[Aidron]

A statue or any physical symbol of an entity or force is, in my belief, not the entity or force in question. These things are far too complex to be contained within a single idol. Rather, they are representations of and conduits for what they represent.

For example, I have three statues upon my altar of my patrons. The statues themself are not my patrons, yet they are vessels they can inhabit at any time if they wish, conduits for them to conduct their will through and representations of their essence, but they are not their essence in its entirety.

I am not worshipping the idol itself, I am worshipping what that idol represents. The idol, being that it reflects something sacred to me therefore becomes sacred itself. The two are linked through sympathy (a basic rule of magic).

[lia_amberwolf]

personally... the statues on my alter are representations of the deities. they are not the deities themselves. i believe that the dieties are shapeless and appear to you in whatever form you are most likely to recognize them in.

[Romani Vixen]

Aidron summed up my perspective rather well.

I don't need an idol. Currently all of my statuary is packed up in storage. At times, it's nice to have though... :)

btw... all of my Devine representing statuary I have made. Before I even realised what my 'God' was, I said that I couldn't have made him... he was so perfect. I feel that the Devine knew that I would need him some day... and led me.

I have created other spiritual items, and it all has a similar aspect... even if it's not for me. There's a meditative (sometimes into a trance) state, get in the 'zone'... connect... communicate without words... create emotion from sight and feel (I work in 3-D typically). Perhaps what I'm trying to communicate, is that when a spiritual item, particularly a representation, is created, there is a very deep connection to the Devine. Perhaps this is what creates that link to the Devine through that piece of clay....

Sorry... feeling rather philosophical.


A statue or any physical symbol of an entity or force is, in my belief, not the entity or force in question. These things are far too complex to be contained within a single idol. Rather, they are representations of and conduits for what they represent.

For example, I have three statues upon my altar of my patrons. The statues themself are not my patrons, yet they are vessels they can inhabit at any time if they wish, conduits for them to conduct their will through and representations of their essence, but they are not their essence in its entirety.

I am not worshipping the idol itself, I am worshipping what that idol represents. The idol, being that it reflects something sacred to me therefore becomes sacred itself. The two are linked through sympathy (a basic rule of magic).

[Teresa]

A christian asked me this question, and to be truthful, I have no answer for him.

The Question is: Do pagans believe the statues or sculptures on their altar

are the Deities themselves who have God-like power, or are they just an image of

a God/dess who exists outside the statue? (If that is confusing, think of it this

way: When I take a picture of my dog, that picture is just an image of my

dog. The picture itself isn't my dog: my dog exists outside the picture. Is the same true

with the statues on the altar?)
They are just images to me.

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

Er........the word is 'idolatry'.

[Xentor]

When I walk by a christ statue (last time was in the Notre Dame in Paris, they have a christ statue made from shiney black material) I can feel the power that people through the years put into it. They pray to that statue, they worship it. Yes, they feel that Christ is behind that statue, but it is the statue that is being used as a portal to God. So the statue will be powered.

Same goes, in my views, for every other deitic statue.

[DebLipp]

Over on the Magical Currents thread, Tripsie quoted me as saying something about idols that is applicable here. Basically, idols contain god-energy, either through repeated use, through "awakening," or both. That god-energy is not THE SAME AS the deity, but it is ALSO not JUST a representation.

The god isn't confined by the idol anymore than the ocean is confined if we dip out a little water and keep it in a vial. The vial on our altar doesn't just represent the ocean symbolically, it also contains the ocean, but the ocean isn't diminished or confined or, damaged if the vial is damaged.

[Karma Chameleon]

A christian asked me this question, and to be truthful, I have no answer for him.

The Question is: Do pagans believe the statues or sculptures on their altar are the Deities themselves who have God-like power, or are they just an image of a God/dess who exists outside the statue? (If that is confusing, think of it this way: When I take a picture of my dog, that picture is just an image of my dog. The picture itself isn't my dog: my dog exists outside the picture. Is the same true with the statues on the altar?)

A statue of a god is just a statue, not a god. A sculpture or statue only has as much meaning as you put into it.

[Ninjakitten]

Two thoughts from me, keeping in mind that I'm a Christian witch:

1) For me, symbols and statues are used as foci (plural of focus) for what I am trying to concentrate on. Having AADD, I'm easily distracted, but being a very visual person, I can counteract the AADD while meditating or focusing on my purpose if I have a visual thing to focus on. That is why when I do ritual, I need to have some pretty decent things around that inspire me to think of what I want to think about.

2) I do believe that people can focus power into objects. The objects themselves are no more powerful than the sum of their materials until a human focuses intent into the object. A silver pentacle only has as much power and ability as the silver itself, because without human intent and focus, the symbol the silver is fashoned into is merely a shape of silver. I also feel different materials have different properties (being an Earth based person, and so I'm into stones and metals), and so some materials can work better towards different purposes than others. I don't believe, however, that a creation can house it's creator, and I do believe that the Divine created all we know there is, so that Diety cannot be truly housed within any substance, though the Divine can communicate to you in the form of making you believe that it/he/she is within an object you are focusing on.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Yup, I'm going with representation AND conduit. I think that of course the deity isn't confined to the statue/image, but that they are present within the image, perhaps more than other places. It's a point of easy access from us to them and them to us. It's like, say I want to worship.... the Electricity God. So I can visualize him and all the good things, and even experience, but I get direct experience if I go to the sacred outlet and stick my fork in it. ^_^ Same kind of thing. Another tool for access to that which is beyond, just like most other religious objects on my altar, but definitely more than just a momento or a representation.

The last thangka I painted was blessed so that the spirit of Medicine Buddha would fill it. (but not be contained within it, because that would be impossible)... I found it a really interesting and exciting process. (particularly it was good enough to have it done)... It's also interesting that traditionally, the very last thing one paints on a thangka is the eyes, because that "awakens" the thangka. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[ap Dafydd]

The deities have an existence outside our representations of them. But just as we take parts of the divine and shape them into god/desses, giving them autonomy and existence, so too by creating an image of a deity, we call a little of its essence into the image.

That's my take on it, anyway!

gwyn eich byd

Ffred