Facing the "opposition".....help!

[Mooncat]

Good afternoon Everyone,
I had a...well let's just call it an encounter w/ a so-called "minister" and...well let me tell you what happened. I exited the grocery store to find a man leaning over my car. I have a "BORN AGAIN PAGAN' bumpersticker and I guess he didn't like it. I kindly asked him if I could help him w/ something and was accosted horribly!! He began to yell and scream that .."its people like you that ruin this country! You're going to Hell..."etc..etc I started to tell him that I didn't really believe in hell...but he only yelled louder. In this situation what would you do? Do I try to explain? Do I walk away? Has anyone else had this happen and if so, please tell me how you handled it. Thanks for listening.

Mooncat

[Dextra]

People like that really piss me off! What you need to do is keep a baseball bat in your car, works for me! :D Just kidding!

No, when you're in a situation like that, the only thing you CAN do is walk away. And quickly. People are funny creatures. You never know when some nut is going to vent their frustrations all over YOU just because you're there. Talking to someone when they're screaming like that isn't going to help, and may just fan the flames of their anger even more. And you never know when a situation like that may get violent. It's never happened to me personally, but it's better not to take the chance.

Basically, if a person is throwing a fit like that, leave them to their fit and get away. People like that don't want to understand, and it's not worth your time to waste your breath on them.

[folkwitch]

People like that are just angry in general and looking for someone to take it out on. They could just as easily take it out on a little kid for some imaginary offense. I vote for the baseball bat! Er...., sorry. I guess walking away is best. You certainly can't reason with them. Repeat after me, "I REFUSE TO GET INTO A BATTLE OF WITS WITH AN UNARMED PERSON, I REFUSE ............" :)

[rantnraven]

Christianity has taught me, in the past (yes, I'm recovering Baptist), to turn the other cheek.

Just say something like "May your path be true. Blessed Be". They'll ponder that, perhaps. Then just smile and go. It's the smile that will get 'em - every time.

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When you come to a fork in the road - take it.

[richardcranium]

I have always found that they get really mad if you kill them with kindness. When people yell at me I kill them with kindness. They usually get so mad that they go away. If they don't go away, then you could use a baseball bat. For self defense, of course. HEHE!

[Solstice]

Personally, I'd extricate myself from the situation, watch the person, and try to get their license plate # and report them to the police, as well as the store manager.


Live well, Laugh often, Love much,
Solstice

[richardcranium]

You can't always depend on the law! I am not sure about my town but I think some of the towns around me have members of the KKK on the payroll.

[Solstice]

No, you *can't* always depend on the law, but if they *do* do something (which they *will* more often than not) then you've done more than if you had done nothing. What do you lose if you notify them and they don't do anything? Nothing. You end up in the same place you'd be if you'd just ignored the idiot and drove home. At least taking the chance that the police will do their jobs shows everyone that you will not stand silently by and allow yourself to be accosted and threatened by a wacko.

Just MHO.

Live well, Laugh often, Love much,
Solstice

[rantnraven]

The police would act - they have to. However, there is a fine-line between religion and law. Nothing, ultimately, would be done.

Just walk. Now is not the time to make a Stand.

Wait!

-T

[richardcranium]

Originally posted by rantnraven
The police would act - they have to. However, there is a fine-line between religion and law. Nothing, ultimately, would be done.

Just walk. Now is not the time to make a Stand.

Wait!

-T



When would a good time to take a stand be? What kind of a stand would that be? What if they take away our religious rights? What if they delare paganism not a real religion? What happens then?

[rantnraven]

You ask many questions, of which, I do not have all of the answers.

Taking and Making a Stand are two different things to me. Taking a stand would be to puff out your chest and tell your aggressor how you feel - as so this thread was started. Making one would be to go to the church in which they work and tell them. Sorry, that's the best I can do on that. I guess the bottom line would be to NOT start a fight or, feed one but stand up to it if there is value to it.

As for Paganism being REAL? Well it is real and no one can take that from you. Actual, and correct me if I'm wrong, Paganism has not been recognized as an actual religion. Wicca was adopt by congress in '96 but not Paganism as a whole.

Go with your heart but confirm with your head. A great man once said that to me.

-T

[richardcranium]

What I meant was what happens if the government decides that Paganism isn't a religion to be protected under the constitution? I bet you there are alot of people out there just waiting for our rights to flushed. I for one do not want to see that happen!

[rantnraven]

The government can't do that. However, as the ancestors learned, it is not the government that we should fear - It is those that fear us. That is the damnable misery of it.

Be well.

-T

------

The dirt road is half the distance but twice as long.

[richardcranium]

Our president thinks that we are not following a real religion. He has already said that we cannot get funding from this office for faith based religions. These are just a few steps in a road to the ultimate destruction of our freedom of religion. I know that I am not being very optimistic but just think about it. They put a puppet in office and he is doing everything they want him to do.

[rantnraven]

There has always been a puppet in office and "WE" the American people - and few lawyers this time around - put him there. We have never had freedom. Not as a people and certainly not as a religion. We have, however, been granted liberties and privileges. For ex. we have the liberty to apply for a drivers license and the State grants us the privilege to use it - they reserve the right to revoke it though.

Think of Paganism as a song in your heart - NO ONE can ever take that away.

Besides, we don't need government funds; we have each other and that has always been enough. Let the funds go to better educate the children or, give the politicians a raise or refurbish a Whitehouse bathroom. Whatever the cause. Until there is a Pagan Lobby in congress, we're out of THAT loop.

If the opposite of "Pro" is "Con" then, the opposite of progress is congress. LOL!

-T

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If you come to a fork in the road, take it!

[folkwitch]

Cut it out old man - you're gonna force me to get up on my women's lib soapbox again and I'm getting too old for this!
Aw.... what the heck........
I always figured that one of the biggest reasons Paganism and especially Wicca isn't accepted is because we credit women with having just as much sense as men.

[eaglewolf]

Originally posted by rantnraven
Besides, we don't need government funds; we have each other and that has always been enough.

Unfortunately, most Pagan organizations don't see it that way. It seems the Pagan community could care less about itself... sadly, I happen to see their point.

~ew

[rantnraven]

I beg to differ with you. The Pagan community is healther now then it has been in years - decades. And it is getting better not to mention BIGGER.

Like I said, congress ID'ed Wicca in '96 and that has fueled the movement. Soon, they will have to recognize all that is Pagan - Neo, Druid, Shaman, All.

Feed the faith and take the dirt road every now-and-again. The truth often lies on the road less traveled.

-T

[rantnraven]

Originally posted by folkwitch
you're gonna force me to get up on my women's lib soapbox again and I'm getting too old for this!
I always figured that one of the biggest reasons Paganism and especially Wicca isn't accepted is because we credit women with having just as much sense as men.


Folkwitch,

I didn't know men had any sense. And phooy! You aren't too old to climb that box. It may seem a little higher then it was before, but you can get there.

Let me know if you can see me from atop.

-T

[eaglewolf]

Bigger? Yeah... Healthy? Well, my jury is still out on this one...

;)

~ew

[folkwitch]

Originally posted by rantnraven


Folkwitch,

I didn't know men had any sense. And phooy! You aren't too old to climb that box. It may seem a little higher then it was before, but you can get there.

Let me know if you can see me from atop.

-T

Yup, I can see you, old man. Put your hat on - you're blinding me!

[rantnraven]

Thought that was my hat!!

-T

[richardcranium]

Originally posted by rantnraven
There has always been a puppet in office and "WE" the American people - and few lawyers this time around - put him there. We have never had freedom. Not as a people and certainly not as a religion. We have, however, been granted liberties and privileges. For ex. we have the liberty to apply for a drivers license and the State grants us the privilege to use it - they reserve the right to revoke it though.

Think of Paganism as a song in your heart - NO ONE can ever take that away.

Besides, we don't need government funds; we have each other and that has always been enough. Let the funds go to better educate the children or, give the politicians a raise or refurbish a Whitehouse bathroom. Whatever the cause. Until there is a Pagan Lobby in congress, we're out of THAT loop.

If the opposite of "Pro" is "Con" then, the opposite of progress is congress. LOL!

-T

--------

If you come to a fork in the road, take it!


I know that they can't take it away from me personally. I am worried about them taking my constitutional protection away from me!

[eaglewolf]

Originally posted by richardcranium



I know that they can't take it away from me personally. I am worried about them taking my constitutional protection away from me!

Well, if they do, you can always do what has been done for many years... keep your Path, but keep your mouth shut about it ;).

People are often confused by my reasons for coming out about my Path, and why I feel it is important for us to be vocal (not LOUD). I think we need to show the public that not all Pagans are "teens without a cause" as it is so readily assumed.

I do not blame this on intolerance, but on the fact that this is what the public sees, and this is all they know...

How many legitimate Pagan community support centers do you know of? Aside from the internet (sic), there are very few. Where are they suppose to turn? How long are we suppose to let things like this happen before we try to make a difference?

Sure, it would be nice to stay in secret if we could. But this is no longer possible (at least for now), and without strong support from the Pagan community, those strong enough to take a stand are lost before the battle even begins... are we suppose to just let them drown?

~ew

[Kaylara]

Couldn't agree more EW... I would love to help out in the local pagan center, if there was one... The problem is finding dedicated people who are willing to help out. I mean, I think that in my state there is an adopt a highway thing done by a local pagan group, and a prison teaching thing, but nothing else. Why can't we do soup kitchens, and clothing drives, and shelters, and all of that other stuff??? We love the Earth and our fellow people here on this planet, so why don't we show it as a community??? We each do individual things, but why can't we speak out here.
At least let people know what you believe... Nothing against those who are in the closet, I know that you have your reasons, but we need people who are going to be able to show the public that it is not a teenage rebellion thing...
I am a teenager (not for much longer) but I can't see why people think that just because many people get into this as a teen that it is a teenage rebellion thing... I saw it more of looking for a path, and finding one that I truly felt comfortable with. Just because other people didn't understand my reasoning, didn't mean that I was just rebelling. I think that teens have a lot to offer the pagan community, and the world at large, if they knew what they could do. I think that the same goes for the pagan community. We have so much to offer, why is it only a few vocal individuals who say so???

Kaylara

[richardcranium]

I would like to start a food drive in the name of paganism but I wouldn't know where to send the food to. I guess we could just drive around the city looking for homeless people and see if they want some free food.

[rantnraven]

Your local Salvation Army could help you out. A bank I used to work for started a "Casual Friday for Canned Food" thing some years ago. It went over well.

Just a thought.

-T

[Dextra]

I think that it's important for pagans to speak up and be heard. How else are we supposed to be recognized by the government? I too understand why those that are in the closet choose to stay there. They have their reasons. But I feel that those of us who are out of the closet should not only stand up for our own rights, but for those of our brothers and sisters that cannot do that for themselves. Of course, I'm the first one to jump on the political bandwagon. So if there's a shortage of Pagan Rights lobbyists in Washington, sign me up. I have way too many family members who have held public office not to have a little bit of politics in my blood.;)

[Kaylara]

Well, seeing as how I don't live in a city, I don't really see too many homeless people around here. But I do make a point to donate clothing and food. Purhaps we could start something though! I like the idea of having pagan soup kitchens etc!

Kaylara

[rantnraven]

I'm not sure that soup kitchens are feasible considering we are all from around the globe - NJ, CA, WA even Canada. I think the soup would get cold before we could deliver it. However, I like the idea of a community project that could ease some of the suffering around this great, neglected, world.

In the name of Paganism or, perhaps, this community.

Let me ponder this. I have taken on such projects in the past.

-Thoma

[Kaylara]

Well, Even a food/clothing/toy/book drive for those in our area. We could have regional reps or groups of people in different areas that would help distribute the goods to area food banks, shelters, etc. Just an idea

Kaylara

[richardcranium]

Anybody know how I can find out how I can find a food bank in my area? I live in a somewhat rural area but we are not that backwoods. I like to think of it as cozy. I also don't know of any homless people in my area. I know that some of my friends get kicked out of their apartments and live with other people while they get back on their feet. They also have jobs so that makes it easier for them.

[folkwitch]

Originally posted by richardcranium
Anybody know how I can find out how I can find a food bank in my area? I live in a somewhat rural area but we are not that backwoods. I like to think of it as cozy. I also don't know of any homless people in my area. I know that some of my friends get kicked out of their apartments and live with other people while they get back on their feet. They also have jobs so that makes it easier for them.

Try asking at the office of a local VA hospital or any other Veteran's association. They usually have a list of all the local food closets. If not, they can give you leads.

[Niamh]

The VA, and call your city hall or chamber of commerce. Or visit your local library. They tend to have listings as well, of places around your state. There's a publication called "Infoline" that is published for each state, or for counties. It not only lists shelters, but also soup kitchens, hospitals, planned parenthood-type organizations and any other kind of organization based on community caring and giving. I think they only list non-profits, but I can't be sure.
I think I'll go do a web search to see if they have a site, too.

[rantnraven]

While often it is a great thing to offer donations, food and blankets - and whatever else - there is a huge shortage for volunteers. That could also be a way to go. I have done volunteer work and, while demanding, is very gratifying.

RnR

[Kaylara]

Good ideas coming here!

Kaylara

[Acie]

I would suggest just walking away. We can't force others to listen or to accept that which they don't understand. Maybe one day something will happen to this individual that will force him to see beyond himself, until then, don't stress it....

[crystal_night]

Originally posted by Kaylara

I am a teenager (not for much longer) but I can't see why people think that just because many people get into this as a teen that it is a teenage rebellion thing... I saw it more of looking for a path, and finding one that I truly felt comfortable with. Just because other people didn't understand my reasoning, didn't mean that I was just rebelling. I think that teens have a lot to offer the pagan community, and the world at large, if they knew what they could do. I think that the same goes for the pagan community. We have so much to offer, why is it only a few vocal individuals who say so???

Kaylara


ANYTHING you do while you are a teen that other's (normally parent's) do not agree with is seen as a rebellion. We've all been there. When you are a teenager and you stand up for what you believe in, you are 'rebelling', and not taken seriously.
After putting up with this from my own family, I went before my mother and posed specific questions about things that went on during those 'rebellious' years.
Her response? She thought I was just lying was the #1 answer. Closing in on #2 was that she just thought it was a phase I was going through.
My mother-in-law found out that I am a Witch not long ago after she purposed that my husband and I have our child blessed in her church after I give birth. Her response? That I am rebelling against Christianity because of the way my parents treated me when I was a child. That is a hoot!!!
I am 23 years old, married for three, and soon to be the mother of one. If I am still living my life with the 'burdens' of my childhood and am still rebelling, then I need a psychiatrist. Not saying that to offend anyone who has had real problems in their childhood.
My childhood wasn't the best. Left a lot to be desired. But there's nothing there that I can really blame on anyone else. I've already worked out my issues and that's the only way I can live my life day to day with a clear conscience. Because I'm not still carrying around excess baggage.
Got off the subject didn't I? *smiles*

[rantnraven]

I have noted through much of my life, and having talked with a lot of people, one's childhood is far worse then that of the others.

Yours worse then mine, mine worse then yours, and so on.

The fact of the matter, that I have learned, is that our childhoods are ours. Like our path, we take them with us and learn from them and through this, we grow. I'm not trying to make lite of this at all but, whether abused or, No, this is our lesson for this life. Those who wish to condemn you - well, that's their lesson.

There is no right and wrong, no black and white, light and dark. Just you. Live how you will and take pride in that. Seek your balance.

Epelo

Will you be my sister? I have a nice comfy chair thingy and an overflowing glass of lemonade for you.

Hoka-hey heya.

[sherry]

Originally posted by richardcranium
You can't always depend on the law! I am not sure about my town but I think some of the towns around me have members of the KKK on the payroll.

I live in a small town where their "Grand Wizard" was born and raised and sadly has raised 3 sons in his uneducated ways!! Many members of the town concil are also KKK and PAWN, as are the store owners.

I have had runnins with these folks and let me tell you it is hard to have a battle of the minds with unarmed people.!!

When I have needed the police in the past they come if not they know I will not stop there! They also know who and what I am. It is my choice and I wont change !!

Recently I was comfronted at the grocery store for allowing a black person to stay at my home (oh my)
I some how found the courage to stand up to him and tell him this black man was my son!! (he calls me MOM, so I feeel that it counts!!) I now have no problems with the group of fools that choose to wear their sheets rather than to sleep on them.
I feel it worked in my favor to have them think of HOLLYWOOD WITCHES and leave me alone!!

I do not know where the courage came from but at that moment I felt like a large warm hand on my back to let me know I was not alone and was safe to speak my mind!!